Birdie048
Footballguy
Check the Cecil Lammey video I added .... but again, nothing "concrete" about lost a step.
Let’s see how he looks in the preseason, whatever team he is with.Check the Cecil Lammey video I added .... but again, nothing "concrete" about lost a step.
We hear so much about NFL guys, especially young RBs bouncing back 100% from full knee reconstruction that it almost stands out when one doesn't get back to speed. It wouldn't surprise me, given the severity of his injury, that he just isn't the same. That said, Denver would be nuts to move (or cut) him if he's 100% back in form. I'm with JohnnyU here in saying that I'd like to see how he looks in camp and the preseason before passing any judgement.It is not a "direct" lost a step quote, but if you look at his contract, new regime and the fact they said he was "100% Totally healthy last season" and did not do that well.Got a link from a credible source saying Javonte Williams isn’t returning to his pre- injury form?Estime is probably the most intriguing to me. Hand picked for the scheme and current regime has no ties to Javonte.
Yes please.
I agree Estime is a good late round target. I picked him up 3.04
Reports from Denver that Javonte has "lost a step" or has not returned to his pre-injury self are slowly making it out.
"IF True", than Estime is in a prime spot under HC Sean Payton ... who has been saying positive this from OTAs on Estime.
Vidal is another target who offers potential due to circumstances, but he is still behind both Gus & Dobbins
From Draft Network:
It was a devastating setback that immediately threatened to derail Williams' career. Williams returned in 2023 to a new staff led by head coach Sean Payton. Williams appeared in 16 games but rushed for just 774 yards and three touchdowns. His 3.6 yards per carry average was a personal-low mark, and he wasn’t a great fit in Payton’s offense.
General manager George Paton selected former Notre Dame running back Audric Estime with a fifth-round pick in the 2024 NFL Draft. Estime is a pro-ready ball-carrier that rushed for 1,341 yards and 18 touchdowns this past season. Estime will carve out a role for himself.
Williams was drafted by Paton, but Vic Fangio was Denver's head coach then. The duo of Paton and Payton collaborated on the additions of Perine, McLaughlin, and Estime. That could make Williams the odd man out in a crowded rotation.
Releasing Williams wouldn't necessarily be financially rewarding, although it's not preventative either. The Broncos would save $1.8 million while inheriting a manageable dead cap charge of $951,955. You wonder if Williams' name gets floated in summer trade discussions. Perine is another underrated potential cap casualty, with $3 million available in savings via a release.
From Fantasy Pros
Javonte Williams looked like a shelf of his former self in the first season. Yes, I know this was his first season coming off a devastating knee injury, but it still wasn't pretty. Volume wasn't the issue for the RB31 last season, as he rolled up 264 touches, but his efficiency numbers were scary. Among 49 qualifying backs last season, he ranked 41st in missed tackles forced per attempt and 33rd in yards after contact per attempt. Williams also was 55th in fantasy points per opportunity and 53rd in yards per touch. Could he bounce back in 2024 and look more like the eventual stud we saw in 2021 and 2022? Sure, it's possible. Is it also possible that a back with a 40th percentile speed score and 72nd percentile burst score never regains his former juice? Yep. Williams looks entrenched as Denver's early down guy, but don't be surprised if Jaleel McLaughlin eats into his carries more this season and capsizes his pass-game usage. Williams is an RB2/3.
ETA: Cecil Lammey & Andrew Mason video - quote: "I do not think he will ever be the same"
In hindsight I probably should have.You know how much a "hold" on Fields guy I am. I'd sell for this in a heartbeat.12 team SF.
Would you trade Fields for McConkey + an early 2025 2nd (top 4 guaranteed)?
QBs are ARich, Levis, Minshew, Fields so not exactly awesome depth
If he is the best player on your board take him. Rookie drafts are dart throws. Increase your chances of hitting by taking the highest guy on your board. Don't worry about positions. If your guy hits you will have options to fill positions of need later. Taking a guy that doesn't hit is the biggest detriment to your team at this point and picking a lesser player due to positional need only raises the chance you miss on the pick.Would you guys be looking to draft Bowers at 1.05 if you already had pitts and Kincaid on your dynasty roster or would you feel comfortable with those two and look at picking a player at another position at that spot?
While I agree with this, not all positions hit at the same rate.If he is the best player on your board take him. Rookie drafts are dart throws. Increase your chances of hitting by taking the highest guy on your board. Don't worry about positions. If your guy hits you will have options to fill positions of need later. Taking a guy that doesn't hit is the biggest detriment to your team at this point and picking a lesser player due to positional need only raises the chance you miss on the pick.Would you guys be looking to draft Bowers at 1.05 if you already had pitts and Kincaid on your dynasty roster or would you feel comfortable with those two and look at picking a player at another position at that spot?
And that should be included in your rankings. I didn't say take a certain position. I said, take your highest rated player. Trust your rankings. If you don't trust TE's to hit that should be reflected in your rankings. Bump Bowers down if you think TE's are harder to hit. It doesn't change my advice which is to take your highest rated player regardless of position.While I agree with this, not all positions hit at the same rate.
Agreed.And that should be included in your rankings. I didn't say take a certain position. I said, take your highest rated player. Trust your rankings. If you don't trust TE's to hit that should be reflected in your rankings. Bump Bowers down if you think TE's are harder to hit. It doesn't change my advice which is to take your highest rated player regardless of position.While I agree with this, not all positions hit at the same rate.
You said Irving profiled as a JAG, but Estime could very well be a JAG as well if his combine is any indication. He’s going late in rookie drafts and there could be a reason for that. I have a couple of shares, but I’m not holding my breath.
More in Denver than any team in history I’d bet.Plenty of FF relevant RB JAGs over the years as you know.
I wouldn't draft Nabers in hopes of him drafting and then trading Harrison. I would just pick Harrison.Here's an interesting one. Don't know where to post this but whatever. Let's say you have the 1.01. And Team X has the 1.02. You like Harrison over Nabers. Team X like Nabers over Harrison, and let's say hypothetically that you know this for a fact (it's not deception on Team X's part). Does that mean you should draft Nabers and trade to Team X for the 1.02 + some juice? Or maybe simply threaten to draft Nabers, and offer him the 1.01 for the same?
I guess in real life my hypothetical would break down. You cannot KNOW that Team X isn't bluffing.I wouldn't draft Nabers in hopes of him drafting and then trading Harrison. I would just pick Harrison.Here's an interesting one. Don't know where to post this but whatever. Let's say you have the 1.01. And Team X has the 1.02. You like Harrison over Nabers. Team X like Nabers over Harrison, and let's say hypothetically that you know this for a fact (it's not deception on Team X's part). Does that mean you should draft Nabers and trade to Team X for the 1.02 + some juice? Or maybe simply threaten to draft Nabers, and offer him the 1.01 for the same?
Never draft someone for the main purpose of trading them to someone else. it never nets you the return you think you can get. Just take the guy you want or offer up the pick and if you can get something that make it worth your while to have the .001% chance you miss out on your guy (in your scenario) then do it. But in the end....just take your guy.Here's an interesting one. Don't know where to post this but whatever. Let's say you have the 1.01. And Team X has the 1.02. You like Harrison over Nabers. Team X like Nabers over Harrison, and let's say hypothetically that you know this for a fact (it's not deception on Team X's part). Does that mean you should draft Nabers and trade to Team X for the 1.02 + some juice? Or maybe simply threaten to draft Nabers, and offer him the 1.01 for the same?
It would take an act of congress to get Jefferson off my roster even with my love for Oduzne (Cousins or no Cousins). Realistically I'd need LaPota, 1.03 and another strong asset to make that trade. And that's assuming a strong Tight End Premium in the league.1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
It would take an act of congress to get Jefferson off my roster even with my love for Oduzne (Cousins or no Cousins). Realistically I'd need LaPota, 1.03 and another strong asset to make that trade. And that's assuming a strong Tight End Premium in the league.1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
If it’s TE-P, you’re not crazy, but we don’t know if Odunze is anywhere near the caliber of JJ in the pros.
JJ should (should) be QB-proof.
But I wouldn’t sell JJ for LaPorta + a not guaranteed stud. On paper it looks good. In practice you’re taking a MASSIVE risk. If Odunze is a bust, you’ll be searching Amazon for Seppuku swords or combing the white pages for a good therapist to talk you off of that ledge.
DON’T JUMP!!!
(Seriously though - I wouldn’t do this. You’re bored. Find a way to get the 1.03 or LaPorta without losing JJ)
If any WR is QB-proof, it’s JJ.It would take an act of congress to get Jefferson off my roster even with my love for Oduzne (Cousins or no Cousins). Realistically I'd need LaPota, 1.03 and another strong asset to make that trade. And that's assuming a strong Tight End Premium in the league.1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
1QB, guy with 1.03 has put it up for sale.
I look at his team just to see what there is to pick at and he has Sam Laporta. I wonder about offering Jefferson for basically Odunze and Laporta. Someone tell me I’m mad please and I’m just bored. Changing of the QB in Minny has to be thought about though. It’s within the range of possibilities that Jefferson’s numbers could fall and so his value could as well. But just tell me I’m mad or bored. Thanks in advance
If it’s TE-P, you’re not crazy, but we don’t know if Odunze is anywhere near the caliber of JJ in the pros.
JJ should (should) be QB-proof.
But I wouldn’t sell JJ for LaPorta + a not guaranteed stud. On paper it looks good. In practice you’re taking a MASSIVE risk. If Odunze is a bust, you’ll be searching Amazon for Seppuku swords or combing the white pages for a good therapist to talk you off of that ledge.
DON’T JUMP!!!
(Seriously though - I wouldn’t do this. You’re bored. Find a way to get the 1.03 or LaPorta without losing JJ)
OBJ was going top 3 in SF dynasty startups at one point, don't be crazy, a bad rookie QB can ruin any receiver, JJ can be great but people are overvaluing him.
No, I would not.12 team PPR superflex
Would you trade
tee Higgins
2025 1st plus early to mid
trey lance
For
1.03
3.6
That said, I can still sell him to that same Russ shareholder at any time.In hindsight I probably should have.
That’s what we’re here for my friend.Thank you for halting my temporary madness
Some good points here. Estime or Davis could be the ones to get the earliest look depending how they do in camp. Payton likes to use multiple backs and he's looking for RBs that can do specific things. Estime wasn't high on my list but opportunity could come sooner than later for him. Davis is another guy that may get an opportunity with not many in front of him.I like Estime’s potential situation.would anyone like to give their opinion on these rookies?
Irving, Bucky TBB RB
Estime, Audric DEN RB
Davis, Ray BUF RB
Tracy, Tyrone NYG RB
Vidal, Kimani LAC RB
I'm on deck and then have the next two picks
Irving lacks prototypical size, likely in a committee
Ray Davis you’re hoping he’s thunder to Cook’s lightning
Vidal has a chance in a murky RB room. Long term at least.
Tracy - read his best metrics came from basically 1 game. I’m out.
If I get 2 I take Estime + Davis or Estime+Vidal
Very real statement.
For 2024 I probably go Estime, Davis and then Bucky but long term (2 years from now) maybe Tracy or Vidal eventually take over.
Realistically if I had these guys and one hits in 2024 I probably flip them for a 2025 pick.
I agree about flipping though - it’s the sort of thing where with little draft capital invested they could trade JaWill, start Estime, then move on to another cheap draft pick in 2025. Or maybe they invest in a better caliber prospect by then.Very real statement.
For 2024 I probably go Estime, Davis and then Bucky but long term (2 years from now) maybe Tracy or Vidal eventually take over.
Realistically if I had these guys and one hits in 2024 I probably flip them for a 2025 pick.
The order could change from pre-season Camp reports or week to week during the season. Time will tell and value is often in those with patience.
I would do that deal, very deep class this year so the 30th best player in this draft will be a good gamble, plus you are assured of either MHJr/Caleb/Daniels ... next year's class is weak at QB and top heavy but not a lotta depth at WR so you will likely be getting a RB with your mid 1st not a QB. I like Tee but who knows about his future after 202412 team PPR superflex
Would you trade
tee Higgins
2025 1st plus early to mid
trey lance
For
1.03
3.6
Not Schrader who comes even later?I’d rather invest in a Guerendo a couple rounds later and hope he gets the RB2 gig & maybe gets a shot as CMC finishes his career in SF.
Oh I like Schrader too. I have 2 shares. Just obtained a share of Guerendo.Not Schrader who comes even later?
Yep, did it in our last rookie draft trading up. Sometimes I just need to be patient but when you want your guy....anyone ever outbid yourselves?
Like ya worked to balance a deal, then added one more piece to “put it over the top”, and then found out later that they woulda taken it anyway?
I seem to do this a lot. lol
I need to learn to come in low and negotiate from there. It’s a skill I lack, apparently.
Good point about 2025. Supposed to be a strong RB class. Any of these round 4-6 2024 RBs could be replaced in a heartbeat with a 2nd round RB drafted in 2025. That is why I would most likely flip any later round pick for a 2025 pick and reroll. Of course if I need a spot start at RB I will keep but if I don't need the RB I'm probably flipping or adding to a package to improve my team.I agree about flipping though - it’s the sort of thing where with little draft capital invested they could trade JaWill, start Estime, then move on to another cheap draft pick in 2025. Or maybe they invest in a better caliber prospect by then.Very real statement.
For 2024 I probably go Estime, Davis and then Bucky but long term (2 years from now) maybe Tracy or Vidal eventually take over.
Realistically if I had these guys and one hits in 2024 I probably flip them for a 2025 pick.
The order could change from pre-season Camp reports or week to week during the season. Time will tell and value is often in those with patience.
That’s the unsaid thing about a lot of the 2024 RBs - none are considered elites and none have the draft capital to have job security.
Sure, there’s a chance one of them hits & sticks, but long odds.
I’d rather invest in a Guerendo a couple rounds later and hope he gets the RB2 gig & maybe gets a shot as CMC finishes his career in SF.
anyone ever outbid yourselves?
Like ya worked to balance a deal, then added one more piece to “put it over the top”, and then found out later that they woulda taken it anyway?
I seem to do this a lot. lol
I need to learn to come in low and negotiate from there. It’s a skill I lack, apparently.
Yeah, same. Exactly the same. After a number of years you just get into a groove with some owners, and other owners are just difficult to deal with. So you tend to go back to the well. Totally get it.anyone ever outbid yourselves?
Like ya worked to balance a deal, then added one more piece to “put it over the top”, and then found out later that they woulda taken it anyway?
I seem to do this a lot. lol
I need to learn to come in low and negotiate from there. It’s a skill I lack, apparently.
I'll overpay, sometimes, to generate goodwill. There are a few guys in my three leagues that we trade amongst ourselves and not give each other a hard time on every single deal cuz we "know" it'll get made up later.
It's not collusion cuz we've never discussed it, but I know which guys are easy to trade with (sometimes they get a deal from me) and which guys are a freaking pain in the rear on every deal... they never get a discount
Same.
Wow, never thought of it that way lol. Definitely some truth to it!Same.
And a friend of mine calls FF “D&D for sports nerds” and… she’s not wrong.
OL are your orc warriors, WRs are your diva thieves, QB is your wizard, and Deshaun Watson's massage therapists are your healers.Wow, never thought of it that way lol. Definitely some truth to it!Same.
And a friend of mine calls FF “D&D for sports nerds” and… she’s not wrong.
Yeah, same. Exactly the same. After a number of years you just get into a groove with some owners, and other owners are just difficult to deal with. So you tend to go back to the well. Totally get it. Also, guys that nickel and dime because they have to "win" are terrible to deal with.anyone ever outbid yourselves?
Like ya worked to balance a deal, then added one more piece to “put it over the top”, and then found out later that they woulda taken it anyway?
I seem to do this a lot. lol
I need to learn to come in low and negotiate from there. It’s a skill I lack, apparently.
I'll overpay, sometimes, to generate goodwill. There are a few guys in my three leagues that we trade amongst ourselves and not give each other a hard time on every single deal cuz we "know" it'll get made up later.
It's not collusion cuz we've never discussed it, but I know which guys are easy to trade with (sometimes they get a deal from me) and which guys are a freaking pain in the rear on every deal... they never get a discount
Yeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
His counter wasYeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
Bruh - that’s called a “counter” - don’t make me do allllll the work.
Yeah, that's super frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the owner who wants to counter on every single trade to try to eek out another 5th rounder or WR7.His counter wasYeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
Bruh - that’s called a “counter” - don’t make me do allllll the work.
You give: {}
He gives: {}
Mull it over. I wouldn't say it's a bad offer.
That’s even more annoying. It’s always an automatic accept, but it just feels weasily - especially when I’m already overpaying.Yeah, that's super frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the owner who wants to counter on every single trade to try to eke out another 5th rounder or WR7.His counter wasYeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
Bruh - that’s called a “counter” - don’t make me do allllll the work.
You give: {}
He gives: {}
Mull it over. I wouldn't say it's a bad offer.
Some owners never accept trades offered to them, only those they offer if a deal gets done. Yes, those are the ones who also have to tweak a deal to death and I laugh at them when I reject and they miss out on a good deal because of their greed. Then they realize their mistake and come back with a trade offer I previously made.Yeah, that's super frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the owner who wants to counter on every single trade to try to eke out another 5th rounder or WR7.His counter wasYeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
Bruh - that’s called a “counter” - don’t make me do allllll the work.
You give: {}
He gives: {}
Mull it over. I wouldn't say it's a bad offer.
Yeah - I’m trying to work with a dude now - put up an offer. Said he liked some of the pieces, but try again.Owners that know what they want and are confident in their evaluation abilities are easy to deal with. Insecure owners that need justification or someone to tell them it's ok are always hard to deal with.
Bruh - that’s called a “counter” - don’t make me do allllll the work.
At least you got a response!At least he engaged. I sent an offer to a guy last night for the immortal Jameson Williams, asking if he’d consider moving him and that I’m flexible on pieces. His response was “No. Not now, not ever. Sorry bruddah”. Which was just plain stupid on so many levels.
99.99999% of my trades go unanswered in my main league in the offseason it’s pretty frustrating. Not sure how you can be in a dynasty league and run your team like you’re in a redraft leagueAt least you got a response!At least he engaged. I sent an offer to a guy last night for the immortal Jameson Williams, asking if he’d consider moving him and that I’m flexible on pieces. His response was “No. Not now, not ever. Sorry bruddah”. Which was just plain stupid on so many levels.
I put up very generous offers for Stafford (one owner) and ARod (different owner) 2 days ago, and so far
Not really a fan of ARod, but it’s SF and I’m a little desperate for a QB2.
But yeah - at least ya got a response!!
I'm very active leading up to our rookie draft as well as in draft. I think I made 5 trades during our rookie draft. But I will be honest, now that our draft is done, I'm in a wait and see mode. I made most of my moves and waiting to closer to the season before making any big moves. Obviously I will still entertain deals but I have trouble making trades now just to make a trade. Unless I have a big need or hole to fill I usually wait until closer to the season.99.99999% of my trades go unanswered in my main league in the offseason it’s pretty frustrating. Not sure how you can be in a dynasty league and run your team like you’re in a redraft leagueAt least you got a response!At least he engaged. I sent an offer to a guy last night for the immortal Jameson Williams, asking if he’d consider moving him and that I’m flexible on pieces. His response was “No. Not now, not ever. Sorry bruddah”. Which was just plain stupid on so many levels.
I put up very generous offers for Stafford (one owner) and ARod (different owner) 2 days ago, and so far
Not really a fan of ARod, but it’s SF and I’m a little desperate for a QB2.
But yeah - at least ya got a response!!