DNC - where do you go from here? (1 Viewer)

[Riversco]

For president the people want a charismatic leader. For other posts, the public wants a party that gets them better paying jobs. Work from there. 

 

[Dr Oadi]

Dems need to hammer three things.

Job, jobs, jobs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLbFrvGc_M

 

[Sabertooth]

What don't you understand about my post? I'll try to write it better.

How are you going to be the party of jobs and blue collar workers when your policies are detrimental to that?

The answer is simple.....rhetoric.   The Dems are largely neutered right now.  So they can say whatever they want.  They can't do anything other than talk.  So say what people want to hear.  Most people don't give a #### about gay rights.  It's just a non-issue to most people.  

Jobs are a big issue.  Hammer Trump and the right wing government when they inevitably fail to produce decent jobs.  Quit hammering them on guns and gays.  Most people don't want to hear about how you think people need be entered into another government database.  Screw registration.  Let people have their guns.  Just own it.  "We were wrong to try to take away you guns.  We won't do it again."   It disarms a huge part of the right wing political machine.  

Focus on jobs.  These regulations are going to be rolled back and guess what, the little guy is still going to be getting screwed.  If companies make more money, it isn't going to trickle down to the grunt.  Focus on the grunt's vote.  Focus on the golden parachutes.  See...we told you they were going to #### you over even if we rolled back regulations.  See...the rich are just getting richer.  You are still poor, vote for us, we are the party of the working man.  Not the party of the gays.  Not the women's party.  The working man's party.  

 

[Sabertooth]

For president the people want a charismatic leader. For other posts, the public wants a party that gets them better paying jobs. Work from there. 

Yup.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLbFrvGc_M

I can't youtube at work.  

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Yup.  And you are largely alienating people who would vote for you.  I am Democrat.  I do not want my guns taken away.  So quit pushing me away. 

The vast majority of gun owners (I'm one too) favor sensible gun control legislation (universal background checks, closing the gunshow loophole, etc.).  "They are coming to take all the guns" is a total strawman built by the NRA.

 

[Riversco]

The vast majority of gun owners (I'm one too) favor sensible gun control legislation (universal background checks, closing the gunshow loophole, etc.).  "They are coming to take all the guns" is a total strawman built by the NRA.

Thats REALLY difficult to say after an election where the polls were way off. Gun control could very well have significantly impacted the great lakes states and helped push them red.

 

[Sabertooth]

Obviously it's a strawman.   Do disarm it.   Quit feeding into it.  

"Yes, we screwed up and alienated all the great American gun owners.  We learned our lesson and we are sorry."  Done. Next issue. 

The NRA would be like "What the #### just happened?  We ####### won?  Now what do we do?  Go hunting I guess"  

 

[Sabertooth]

Thats REALLY difficult to say after an election where the polls were way off. Gun control could very well have significantly impacted the great lakes states and helped push them red.

Absolutely did.  I have a friend who was all about Trump after voting for Obama twice.   One issue...guns.  

 

[culdeus]

The key to winning potus is lying about the extent to which you will bring jobs back that will never exist again.  

The rest of it is all fluff. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The key to winning potus is lying about the extent to which you will bring jobs back that will never exist again.  

The rest of it is all fluff. 

Ok but that at least concedes people want to hear about jobs and income first and foremost.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think it would be a mistake to use this election as a test for any specific policy item, they were all crowded out by character and personality issues. 

I agree on the presidential level, but that doesn't explain the HOR, Senate, & legislative seats and governorships that have been flipping.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Absolutely did.  I have a friend who was all about Trump after voting for Obama twice.   One issue...guns.  

But Obama won twice by fairly large margins and didn't have any different messaging on guns than Clinton did. Maybe something else is going on outside of gun control, which, again, most Americans support, being the big issue. 

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I have a hard time believing that this particular election was primarily based around any traditional political issues, much less primarily around gun control. From where I'm sitting, this was a decision based on anti-establishment populism foremost, with a side of economic dissatisfaction.

 

[Sabertooth]

Maybe something else is going on.  But you have to admit that gun rights was a big deal for most of Trump's base.  Take it away.  

 

[culdeus]

I have a hard time believing that this particular election was primarily based around any traditional political issues, much less primarily around gun control. From where I'm sitting, this was a decision based on anti-establishment populism foremost, with a side of economic dissatisfaction.

When people that don't know any better are told that decades old trade deals are bad, and they buy it because arguing otherwise is seen as support you have an issue. 

Then it becomes a game of who hates trade deals more and louder. 

Clinton was burned by the fact that many of these deals happened on the bills watch under the tacit and unwavering approval of the then gop at the time. 

These are the sorts of things lost on people with zero background in anything but honey boo boo. Clinton made zero effort to pitch the delicate situation she was in and maybe the dnc didn't see this coming. Hell, I know the gop didn't. 

 

[shadrap]

I have a hard time believing that this particular election was primarily based around any traditional political issues, much less primarily around gun control. From where I'm sitting, this was a decision based on anti-establishment populism foremost, with a side of economic dissatisfaction.

good post.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

One key factor that everybody passes over is that Trumps rise in the polls began as the rates for health insurance were being rolled out.   I think this was bigger factor than Comey or anything else...

I think this is a good point. I don't know if there is a bigger/biggest factor at this point, as Chaos Commish pointed out elsewhere it was a thousand cuts.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I agree on the presidential level, but that doesn't explain the HOR, Senate, & legislative seats and governorships that have been flipping.

Yeah, this is the real problem for Democrats that I talk about with my DC friends quite a bit. Turnout is a big problem here. Republican voters are more reliable to vote in state, and mid-term elections. Combine that with a natural counter-cyclical inclination of the electorate, where the party out of the White House tends to do better and it's led to significant bleeding and a weak Democrat bench of state level talent. 2018 will be a critical year for Democrats.    

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

When people that don't know any better are told that decades old trade deals are bad, and they buy it because arguing otherwise is seen as support you have an issue. 

Then it becomes a game of who hates trade deals more and louder. 

Clinton was burned by the fact that many of these deals happened on the bills watch under the tacit and unwavering approval of the then gop at the time. 

These are the sorts of things lost on people with zero background in anything but honey boo boo. Clinton made zero effort to pitch the delicate situation she was in and maybe the dnc didn't see this coming. Hell, I know the gop didn't. 

Thing about the TPP is Hillary was really for it. If she had made a full throated appeal it would have been more authentic and better. But it's like that with a lot of things with Hillary.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

When people that don't know any better are told that decades old trade deals are bad, and they buy it because arguing otherwise is seen as support you have an issue. 

Then it becomes a game of who hates trade deals more and louder. 

Clinton was burned by the fact that many of these deals happened on the bills watch under the tacit and unwavering approval of the then gop at the time. 

These are the sorts of things lost on people with zero background in anything but honey boo boo. Clinton made zero effort to pitch the delicate situation she was in and maybe the dnc didn't see this coming. Hell, I know the gop didn't. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens the next four years, because no matter what anyone says during a political campaign those jobs are gone for good, and it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with any trade deals, good, bad, or indifferent. And I have a very hard time seeing a Republican administration enacting legislation that will actually address the problems that the rural rust belt working class voters who chose Trump are facing. Of course, the Democrats have pretty much ignored them for decades, too, but I have a feeling that people are going to end up continuing to get ever more and more pissed off.

 

[culdeus]

Thing about the TPP is Hillary was really for it. If she had made a full throated appeal it would have been more authentic and better. But it's like that with a lot of things with Hillary.

Well that was obvious. But she was caught between trying to win the general and appeal to all her husband's old guard buddies. And here we are. 

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Thing about the TPP is Hillary was really for it. If she had made a full throated appeal it would have been more authentic and better. But it's like that with a lot of things with Hillary.

I'd bet pretty strongly that TPP will still be going through, although it will probably be repackaged to take some of the stink off of it. The Republicans in Congress are smart enough to know that free trade isn't among the problems we have in this country. I strongly doubt that NAFTA is going anywhere also -- probably just some small changes to enable Trump to say that he got a great new deal to save the country. There's no way Congress goes along with trade wars and protectionism to the extent that Trump campaigned on those issues -- it would cripple the world economy.

 

[jonessed]

Let Trump try to repeal it.  He won't be able to.   And if he does, well maybe these people who are too stupid to not get knocked up should learn to ####### vote.

To the victor goes the spoils.  Deal with it. 

Jobs is where it is at.

He can't repeal it.  It's not going anywhere.  He also isn't going to start another Holocaust.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Thing about the TPP is Hillary was really for it. If she had made a full throated appeal it would have been more authentic and better. But it's like that with a lot of things with Hillary.

This goes back to an earlier post I made in this thread, Democrats need to come up with better messaging on trade immediately. Lying about jobs coming back isn't the answer since those jobs are being lost to technology anyway. We need to put together a plan get the financial benefits of trade and technology shared outside of the top 20%. Particularly in rural areas where there's really not even a trickle down aside from low inflation and cheap consumer products. 

 

[Sabertooth]

He can't repeal it.  It's not going anywhere.  He also isn't going to start another Holocaust.

Exactly.  It's basically iron-clad.  

 

[jonessed]

The key to winning potus is lying about the extent to which you will bring jobs back that will never exist again.  

The rest of it is all fluff. 

It's going to be pretty easy for him to bring back mining jobs.

 

[Sabertooth]

It's going to be pretty easy for him to bring back mining jobs.

Maybe there is a lesson there.   

 

[bueno]

Obviously it's a strawman.   Do disarm it.   Quit feeding into it.  

"Yes, we screwed up and alienated all the great American gun owners.  We learned our lesson and we are sorry."  Done. Next issue. 

The NRA would be like "What the #### just happened?  We ####### won?  Now what do we do?  Go hunting I guess"  

Except it is unlikely they did, and for certain they are not.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

It's going to be pretty easy for him to bring back mining jobs.

 

[Sabertooth]

Except it is unlikely they did, and for certain they are not.

Agreed.  That's why people like me are leaving them behind.  

 

[SacramentoBob]

That's not really accurate either - given the increasing number of eligible voters - find something that shows the relative share of votes each candidate got in the last, say 8 elections. 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw28KfsWEAACFba.jpg:large

 

[SacramentoBob]

Edit: stupid forum software

 

[SacramentoBob]

stupid forum software

 

[SacramentoBob]

HARD DELETE

 

[culdeus]

It's going to be pretty easy for him to bring back mining jobs.

No. Not at all. Unless he wants to simply bribe mining companies. 

 

[SacramentoBob]

No. Not at all. Unless he wants to simply bribe mining companies. 

Our bribery mechanism is sometimes referred to as the tax code.

 

[jonessed]

Not in their entirety obviously.  Natural gas is now cheaper in many places than coal.  Loosening up the environmental regulations will free up opportunities for a variety of mining operations though.

 

[Steve Tasker]

John King on CNN did a really cool time lapse on his magic map where he showed the midwest & upstate NY and showed the 200+ counties which had slowly turned from red to blue then sort of back to red and then totally red from 2004-2016.

I think it would be a mistake to think they turned blue because of Obama's gun control message in 08 and it would be a mistake to think they turned red because of the GOP's gun rights message. The point is they are prioritizing other things. If you spend time on gun control messaging there you lose time that could have been spent on something else that does matter.

In all seriousness, upstate NY is pure Rust Belt and has much more in common demographically and culturally with, say, PA/OH/MI than it does with downstate NY.  If you were to split NY into two, making NYC, surrounding counties, and Long Island their own state and leaving upstate as a state, upstate NY would be a swing state just like PA and OH.  The only reason you never really hear about it is because NYC carries so much voting weight and is so overwhelmingly D that upstate doesn't really matter much.

On the topic of gun control, a major sticking point for a lot of upstate NY voters is the SAFE Act.  It is not an Obama policy but a Cuomo policy.  He proposed the policy within days after Sandy Hook, and it was passed and enacted just a month later.  If you drive anywhere in somewhat rural upstate NY, you see "Repeal the SAFE Act" signs plastered all over.  This has been law for close to 4 years now and people still make a huge deal out of it.  I've long suspected Cuomo is angling for a Presidential run - though he wouldn't dare step on Hillary's toes - and this will dog him in his campaign if and when he does run.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Not in their entirety obviously.  Natural gas is now cheaper in many places than coal.  Loosening up the environmental regulations will free up opportunities for a variety of mining operations though.

According to everything that I have read on the issue, the decline in coal production is tied almost entirely to the massive availability and cheap cost of natural gas, as you mentioned, and really doesn't have too much at all to do with environmental regulations. Wind and solar are also becoming more competitive very quickly. I'm not as well informed on the effects of environmental regulation on other types of mining, but it's pretty abundantly clear that coal is a dying industry in this country and that there really isn't anything that anyone can do to bring it back.

 

[culdeus]

Our bribery mechanism is sometimes referred to as the tax code.

You could make coal tax free and and epa immune and nothing will change.  

Gas is just too cheap. 

 

[Van Dyman]

 

The New York Times Verified account ‏@nytimes


Democratic losses have jolted the party to a conclusion: Its emphasis on cultural issues has all but crippled it. http://nyti.ms/2eSDQLx 

- The way I remember it, this is what dragged the GOP down and out of control of Congress and the WH in 2008. Maybe neither party can restrain themselves from constantly chanting their cultural views on the rest of the country. That may not be why we elect people as it turns out.

Sounds right.

The article you linked also touched on something else that concerns me.  2020 is a long way off but 2018 isn't and the Dems better get their #### together, and quickly:  

“If we don’t have Democratic governors there to veto these maps after the 2020 redistricting, the next 10 years for us in Congress and state legislatures are going to be brutal,” said Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia

 

[Van Dyman]

This goes back to an earlier post I made in this thread, Democrats need to come up with better messaging on trade immediately. Lying about jobs coming back isn't the answer since those jobs are being lost to technology anyway. We need to put together a plan get the financial benefits of trade and technology shared outside of the top 20%. Particularly in rural areas where there's really not even a trickle down aside from low inflation and cheap consumer products. 

Seems like rural voters prefer a trade war instead of cheap consumer products.  Not sure how that works.  Seems problematic.

 

[Statorama]

You could make coal tax free and and epa immune and nothing will change.  

Gas is just too cheap. 

Sounds like we need to move government subsidies currently funding wind/solar over to coal.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Seems like rural voters prefer a trade war instead of cheap consumer products.  Not sure how that works.  Seems problematic.

I don't think they prefer a trade war, per se. They just like hearing that someone will fight to keep jobs from being shipped overseas. The problem is that a trade war will definitely result in higher prices but how it affects jobs is trickier to forecast, when the reality is many of the job losses are really to technology and it's not clear that others currently offshored would come back even with tariffs in place. The worst case scenario is that you get inflation with no job or wage growth to show for it. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The article you linked also touched on something else that concerns me.  2020 is a long way off but 2018 isn't and the Dems better get their #### together, and quickly:  

“If we don’t have Democratic governors there to veto these maps after the 2020 redistricting, the next 10 years for us in Congress and state legislatures are going to be brutal,” said Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia

GOP has control of 33 state legislatures. Of that number 26 have GOP governors, 7 have Dem governors.

The Dems have control of the legislature in 11 states. The GOP has the governorship in 7 of them. Of the remaining:

• The Dems have control of the legislatures and governorship in just 4 states. One is RI, one is Hawaii, the other 2 are CA & OR.
  

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

GOP has control of 33 state legislatures. Of that number 26 have GOP governors, 7 have Dem governors.

The Dems have control of the legislature in 11 states. The GOP has the governorship in 7 of them. Of the remaining:

• The Dems have control of the legislatures and governorship in just 4 states. One is RI, one is Hawaii, the other 2 are CA & OR.
  

This is why people protesting would spend their time better figuring out how to get people out to vote in 2018. 

 

[Sabertooth]

Agreed.  People would rather whine than work to get their own voters out there.  

 

[Hedgehog]

Independent voter - voted BC twice...Bush twice...Obama once and Gary Johnson this year. 

Few thoughts that would win me back as an indy voter...I assume there are a lot of us....

1.  Stop the rhetoric that anyone who doesnt vote dem is a moron, racist, bigot, sexist, jerk....I understand that extremes are on both sides but I definitely noticed much more on the dem side this year and it seems to be getting worse.  

2.  clean up the primary - the entire Clinton campaign seemed like a coronation pre-planned 8 yrs ago by some back room deal with Obama when they ran against each other the 1st time.....it became more apparent when the DNC did everything possible to get rid of the Sanders "distraction" instead of having real debates, dialogue and listening to a bunch of angry people in their own party....it seemed the DNC was so anxious to anoint Hillary they didnt care how bad it looked....and it looked pretty bad.  

3.  stop the dynasties - people are sick of it...Bushes done...Clintons done...please dont recycle Chelsea for a run in the future....fresh face and new ideas....actually listen t what people are saying vs cramming platforms to all....

4.  outside the box - HRC was possibly the most politically tainted and corrupt candidate of all time - yet they ran her and were shocked when she was rejected.  time to go outside the box ala trump and find a candidate that can rally the masses without the baggage.  

5.  keep an open mind - stop the crying doom and gloom....you will never win over a bunch of people that went to trump by crying about it and acting like they destroyed the world.  these people want to be listened to and acknowledged - pointing fingers and protesting not going to help....also dont dismiss every idea that comes out...people are sick of that as well...it's time to find some kind of common ground and get things done.  

Hope to see a DNC rebound - I am socially liberal and not happy in general with how things are currently....not a lot of faith in Trump but as I was always annoyed at the ripping on Obama from the start and not giving him a chance I am annoyed at the same here....let the guy at least get in office and show some decisions before crying end of the world....I was encouraged he wasnt so pig headed to at least acknowledge some parts of Obamacare are ok...fingers crossed!  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Another tidbit - For the first time in 100+ years of electing Senators no State split its senator/president vote.

 

[Sabertooth]

In general, my feeling is that it's time to quit worrying about all these small pockets of people who are offended by me.  My very existence as an employed white hetero male (who just happens to be very handsome) simply offends some people.  I voted for Hillary.  Blacks, hispanics, women, and gays apparently didn't or she'd have won.  They stayed sat home and surfed facebook instead.  So #### them if they were too lazy to vote.  I tried to help, I tried to do the right thing.  But you idiots are simply too dumb or lazy to help yourselves.  I'm done.

I have two daughters under 13.  They are now going to come of age with Trump as their president.  Thanks ### hats. 

By blacks, hispanics, gays, and women not voting, they simply turned me off to their various concerns.  BLM??? #### em.  Gay rights?  Tough buddy.  Women not sticking up for themselves is a disgrace.  Democratic party?  Exposed as a corrupt political machine on par with Tammany Hall.  They lost me.   The only way to easily win me back is to put Bernie at the head of the party.  He's the only one who truly cares and is non-corrupted by this dark episode in American history.  

Time to quit worrying about what other groups have to deal with.  Not my problem.  If you're too lazy to help yourselves, I have zero ####s left to give.