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Did Ricky Fail another drug test (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gzilla
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I am a very proud Ronnie Brown owner.
Seriously though, Miami should have got something for him the minute the season was over.
Seriously though, Miami should have got something for him the minute the season was over.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
From what I've seen, no one can definititively proclaim that Williams failed a drug test at this point. Moreover, the statements that have come out have indicated that he "violated the league substance abuse policy." Williams may have missed a test (rather than testing positive).
Williams can appeal no matter what happens, and if he has stayed clean and missed a test, the league might be more lenient.
Here is the latest Miami Herald report . . .
LINK
Williams can appeal no matter what happens, and if he has stayed clean and missed a test, the league might be more lenient.
Here is the latest Miami Herald report . . .
LINK
Family Matters
Footballguy
But the consequences are the same and he knows it.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I know that that's the rule, but IMO it would be a lot easier to appeal a missed test than appealing a failed test.They apparently test him 10 times a month (or roughly an average of every 3 days). I'm certianly no toxicologist, but wouldn't there still be trace amounts of whatever he would have taken in his next test?
I guess I'll be the boards sacrificial lamb . . . . I've supported Ricky in the past.I just don't see how a failed test and missing the test are the same because he's in India. If he indeed missed the test I can see ther players union and the Dolphins appealing for him.
Is there any other player in the history in the NFL that's been suspended because he missed a test?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, if his argument is he's unable to test because he's in India, then I don't see the merits in an appeal. If the secret is you run off to India/Amsterdam to smoke over the offseason, there's not much point in year round testing obligations. Unless there is some very odd fact not being reported, this is the same as a failed test.
Guys, this isn't a secret that the NFL just sprung on Williams. This is well documented, well publicized, and players & agents are well informed regarding the drug policy.
Personally, I don't see a legit basis for appeal (which doesn't mean there won't be one), and if indeed there is an appeal, I have a very tough time seeing someone with Williams' track record winning it or mitigating punishment somehow.
Personally, I don't see a legit basis for appeal (which doesn't mean there won't be one), and if indeed there is an appeal, I have a very tough time seeing someone with Williams' track record winning it or mitigating punishment somehow.
So because he's failed tests in the past he's now a prisoner of the US for the rest of his NFL career. He can't take vacations?Can you FedEX a urine sample from India?
I'm not arguing your point I'm just trying to understand if a missed test is the same as testing positive?
In the NFL today you can beat your wife over and over again and get a slap on the wrist from the NFL but you can't smoke up. I am not condoning smoking pot but something does not seem right here.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Per the terms of the CBA, yes, a missed test carries the same weight as a failed test.
Do you think there is some inherent right to play in the NFL? These are the rules of the league and the collective bargaining agreement. If a player doesn't want to abide by them, he can seek employment elsewhere.So yeah, if a player fails drugs tests, his behavior is restricted IF he wants to stay in the league. Apparently that's just not a top priority for Williams.
Last season, LB Sedrick Hodge for the Saints missed a drug test while on vacation in the offseason. It was his third offense, but a one year suspension was triggered. He appealed the decision, and it appears as if he was not suspended and was allowed to play last season.Anyone else familiar with what happened to Hodge last year?
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
These guys know the rules. If players don't like it they can give back the money, work normal 7-5 office jobs and play on the internet at work like the rest of us. Playing in the NFL and making millions is a privilege not a burden. Maybe the NFL believes that drugs will taint the product you see on the field. Been watching any baseball for the last 15 years? Laying the smackdown at home, while sad and unfortunate, has no bearing on the on-field product. Those issues are left to law enforcement and the courts.
CheeseHead
Footballguy
What are the official NFL drug policy rules for testing positive?
Isn't a 4th time offense longer than 1 year ? I thought a 3rd offense was a 1 year ban?
Isn't a 4th time offense longer than 1 year ? I thought a 3rd offense was a 1 year ban?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I believe Hodge appealed and argued that he was on vacation. I do not recall him receiving a yearlong suspension, so I wonder if avoided the suspension.
I found some more information on Hodge. From an article dated October 13, 2005 . . .http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/...18327074430.xml
"HODGE MIGHT BE CLEARED: Starting linebacker Sedrick Hodge believes he will be able to avoid a one-year suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy. Hodge said he missed a drug test while on vacation during the offseason and believes the matter can be cleared up by producing proof that he was away.
Haslett said the only information he received that Hodge would be suspended was from a CBS Sports report Sunday. Hodge served a four-game suspension for violating the policy last year."
Can any Saint fans add to this? Did Hodge miss any time last year?
pack100
Footballguy
So because he's failed tests in the past he's now a prisoner of the US for the rest of his NFL career. He can't take vacations?
Can you FedEX a urine sample from India?
I'm not arguing your point I'm just trying to understand if a missed test is the same as testing positive?
In the NFL today you can beat your wife over and over again and get a slap on the wrist from the NFL but you can't smoke up. I am not condoning smoking pot but something does not seem right here.
What is not right is Ricky missing his test. FAiled
Can you FedEX a urine sample from India?
I'm not arguing your point I'm just trying to understand if a missed test is the same as testing positive?
In the NFL today you can beat your wife over and over again and get a slap on the wrist from the NFL but you can't smoke up. I am not condoning smoking pot but something does not seem right here.
What is not right is Ricky missing his test. FAiled
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Dale Carter-2 of his 4 positive tests were missed tests.
Ricky Reportedly in India; Mother Doubts Use of Marijuana...
Posted on: 2006-02-20
[Palm Beach Post] Each of Ricky Williams' prior violations has stemmed from marijuana use, however, the original source could not confirm whether the latest issue was for the same drug. It is also not clear whether Williams received an automatic failure for missing a test.
Williams' mother, Sandy, said her son is currently in India, and she has not spoken to him. She said she feels like she has spent enough time with her son to believe he no longer smokes.
"I'll bet my life he's not smoking marijuana," Sandy Williams said Sunday night. "He's so particular about what he puts in his body now. I would just be shocked. I just don't believe he's smoking weed.
"I'm thinking maybe it was one of his (legal) supplements for his yoga school. I really just don't believe he's smoking weed."
Posted on: 2006-02-20
[Palm Beach Post] Each of Ricky Williams' prior violations has stemmed from marijuana use, however, the original source could not confirm whether the latest issue was for the same drug. It is also not clear whether Williams received an automatic failure for missing a test.
Williams' mother, Sandy, said her son is currently in India, and she has not spoken to him. She said she feels like she has spent enough time with her son to believe he no longer smokes.
"I'll bet my life he's not smoking marijuana," Sandy Williams said Sunday night. "He's so particular about what he puts in his body now. I would just be shocked. I just don't believe he's smoking weed.
"I'm thinking maybe it was one of his (legal) supplements for his yoga school. I really just don't believe he's smoking weed."
The Football Freak
Footballguy
Yes there would. Pot stays in the system for a bit longer than other drugs.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'd like more info on the Sedrick Hodge comparison. Using google, the initial story of his possible suspension is attributed to Greg Gumble at CBS. The article attached here quotes Haslett as saying the only thing he'd heard related to Hodge was the CBS report (meaning the NFL had not put the team on notice of a failure/miss). It would be interesting if another player got off easier than the CBA says he should, but I also wouldn't rule out CBS reporting bad info to begin with.
Take it for what it's worth but here's something from PFT . . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
It's now well know that Dolphins running back Ricky Williams missed a drug test, supposedly because he is in India.
But the fact that Ricky's trip to the land of the Dell computer call center staffers caused him to apparently miss one of his unannounced tinkle tests doesn't make his case open and shut.
A league source tells us that the testing process becomes complicated when a player travels outside of his home territory. The player has an obligation to advise the league of his precise travel plans. The league then has the responsibility to ensure that the player is properly notified as to the location of the testing facility to which he must report, if he ultimately is required to submit to testing while on the road.
If a player like Williams fails to show up under such circumstances, it might have happened because of something the player failed to do -- or it might have happened because of something the league failed to do. If, for example, the league accidentally tried to contact Williams at a number other than the number he had provided, Williams wouldn't have known about the testing obligation, and his failure to report for testing wouldn't be his fault.
Under the NFL substance abuse policy, Williams has the right to appeal the alleged violation to the Commissioner for a hearing. As part of the preparation for the hearing, the timeline and other nuances regarding the ultimate responsibility for the snafu will come to light.
Per the source, it wouldn't be the first time that a player who initially was found to have failed to show up for a test was later exonerated.
We're not suggesting that Williams definitely will be off the hook. Instead, we're saying that Ricky might be able to show that the failure to report for the test was the result of a mistake made by the NFL, not by him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
It's now well know that Dolphins running back Ricky Williams missed a drug test, supposedly because he is in India.
But the fact that Ricky's trip to the land of the Dell computer call center staffers caused him to apparently miss one of his unannounced tinkle tests doesn't make his case open and shut.
A league source tells us that the testing process becomes complicated when a player travels outside of his home territory. The player has an obligation to advise the league of his precise travel plans. The league then has the responsibility to ensure that the player is properly notified as to the location of the testing facility to which he must report, if he ultimately is required to submit to testing while on the road.
If a player like Williams fails to show up under such circumstances, it might have happened because of something the player failed to do -- or it might have happened because of something the league failed to do. If, for example, the league accidentally tried to contact Williams at a number other than the number he had provided, Williams wouldn't have known about the testing obligation, and his failure to report for testing wouldn't be his fault.
Under the NFL substance abuse policy, Williams has the right to appeal the alleged violation to the Commissioner for a hearing. As part of the preparation for the hearing, the timeline and other nuances regarding the ultimate responsibility for the snafu will come to light.
Per the source, it wouldn't be the first time that a player who initially was found to have failed to show up for a test was later exonerated.
We're not suggesting that Williams definitely will be off the hook. Instead, we're saying that Ricky might be able to show that the failure to report for the test was the result of a mistake made by the NFL, not by him.
Really?NFLPA agreement – drug policy
3. Stage Three.
a. Procedures.
(1) Term: A player in Stage Three will remain in Stage Three
for the remainder of his NFL career.
(2) Compliance with Treatment Plan: A player in Stage
Three must comply with the terms of his Treatment Plan, as
required in Stage Two and as may be developed and/or
amended in Stage Three.
(3) Testing: A player in Stage Three will be subject to
unannounced Testing. At the sole discretion of the Medical
Advisor, a player may or may not be tested; however, if he
is tested, he may be tested up to 10 times during any
calendar month. Such Testing shall include Testing for the
NFL Drug Panel and alcohol, but in addition Tests for other
substances of abuse will be conducted if the player’s
Treatment Plan requires abstention from and enumerates
testing for such substances. After being in Stage Three for
three seasons, a player may request of the Medical Advisor
that the number of tests that he is subject to be reduced.
The Medical Advisor may, but is not required to, agree to
the request. A player in Stage Three may not make this
request more often than annually. The Medical Advisor,
after consultation with the Medical Director, may extend or
resume this period of Testing.
(4) Evaluation: A player, while undergoing Stage Three
Testing, may be required to submit to further evaluation
and subsequent treatment at the discretion of the Medical
Director.
b. Discipline.
(1) Discipline for Failure to Comply in Stage Three: A
player who fails to cooperate with testing, treatment,
evaluation or other requirements imposed on him by this
Policy or fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, both as
determined by the Medical Director, or who has a Positive
Test, will be banished from the NFL for a minimum period
of one calendar year.
(2) Banishment: A player banished from the NFL pursuant to
subsection (1) above will be required to adhere to his
Treatment Plan and the provisions of this Intervention
Program during his banishment. During a player’s period of
banishment, his contract with an NFL club shall be tolled.
c. Reinstatement.
(1) Criteria: After the completion of the one-year banishment
period, the Commissioner, in his sole discretion, will
determine if and when the player will be allowed to return
to the NFL. A player’s failure to adhere to his Treatment
Plan during his banishment will be a significant
consideration in the Commissioner’s decision of whether to
reinstate a player. A player seeking reinstatement must
meet certain clinical requirements as determined by the
Medical Director and other requirements as set forth in
Appendix B.
(2) Procedures After Reinstatement: If a player is reinstated,
he will remain in Stage Three for the remainder of his NFL
career, subject to continued Testing and indefinite
banishment. A player allowed to return to the NFL
following a banishment must participate in continued
treatment under this Intervention Program as required by
the Medical Director.
4. Notice to NFL Management Council and NFLPA.
The NFL Management Council and the NFLPA shall be notified whenever an
event occurs that will subject a player to discipline in any Intervention Stage.
F. Notice.
Players who are in any of the Intervention Stages are required to provide the Medical Advisor and the Medical Director with an address and telephone number where they can be reached at all times, and the Medical Advisor shall attempt to notify the player using the method that is reasonably calculated to provide notice to the player in a timely manner. Any notice required to be provided to a player under this Policy will be deemed to be delivered on the earlier of (1) four business days after mailing by regular mail to the address either provided by the player pursuant to this Section or maintained by the player’s club, or (2) actual delivery or notice which for purposes of this Policy shall be deemed to have occurred at the time that a voice mail is left at the telephone number provided by a player or that a Federal Express or other similar means of overnight delivery, waiving signature, is delivered to the address provided by a player.
Native
Footballguy
Heres the scoop from a reputable poster at Finheaven that has access to an insider. Apparantly Ricky WAS in India and missed the test. Heres the kicker - apparantly he notified the League about his vacation. Take it for what its worth.
OK, just got off the phone with my friend - a rairity in itself. This person says that Ricky is in India, not California as is being reported, or at least WAS in India when the test was supposed to be. He may NOW be in California, but that's AFTER the fact. That marijuana IS NOT involved, that they believe that the NFL random test on non specified days as certain drugs only stay in the system for a brief period of time, obviously, and that when they called, Ricky was abroad, incommunicado and thus unavailable for the test. This despite, my friend saying, that the league knew he would be away for a portion of February in India. My friend said however, that Ricky may have stayed on longer or left on a later date as he had been on the West Coast and in North Carolina and may have delayed his trip to India.
My friend says that this is what they have been led to believe, but reiterated that it is a missed test rather than taking drugs and that the reason the team hadn't commented is that they are working on how to come in with an appeal and that importantly, they being - Miami - had up until the middle of the week - not planned on trading him because the value that they believe Ricky offers, was not going to be met in a trade and that he would have been more valuable as part of the Miami Dolphins, than getting a 3rd or more likely a 4th rounder.
My friend says the story is developing all the time and they may e-mail me later, but this, through their job in the Florida media, is what they believe is the situation.
Sorry it's all a bit vague
OK, just got off the phone with my friend - a rairity in itself. This person says that Ricky is in India, not California as is being reported, or at least WAS in India when the test was supposed to be. He may NOW be in California, but that's AFTER the fact. That marijuana IS NOT involved, that they believe that the NFL random test on non specified days as certain drugs only stay in the system for a brief period of time, obviously, and that when they called, Ricky was abroad, incommunicado and thus unavailable for the test. This despite, my friend saying, that the league knew he would be away for a portion of February in India. My friend said however, that Ricky may have stayed on longer or left on a later date as he had been on the West Coast and in North Carolina and may have delayed his trip to India.
My friend says that this is what they have been led to believe, but reiterated that it is a missed test rather than taking drugs and that the reason the team hadn't commented is that they are working on how to come in with an appeal and that importantly, they being - Miami - had up until the middle of the week - not planned on trading him because the value that they believe Ricky offers, was not going to be met in a trade and that he would have been more valuable as part of the Miami Dolphins, than getting a 3rd or more likely a 4th rounder.
My friend says the story is developing all the time and they may e-mail me later, but this, through their job in the Florida media, is what they believe is the situation.
Sorry it's all a bit vague
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BigJim®
Footballguy
This is fairly crucial information. Taking this info and viewing in light of the PFT analysis, there is probably very, very weak grounds for appeal. If it is Ricky's responsibility for telling the NFL where he'll be and when he'll be there, an unreported change in itinerary comes at his own peril. He should know that. If the NFL gets into the business of excusing unreported changed itineraries, guess what happens everytime a guy gives the NFL his itinerary? Off to Amsterdam for an unscheduled week of 'yoga.'
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Boy, was I wrong.
Native
Footballguy
But it could be anything. He could have missed his connection and was therefore late returning home (theyre not going to suspend him for a year if he missed his flight). Point is, we have no idea what the circumstantial evidence is so theres no way that we can determine id his appeal claim is "weak" or not. Given that Sedrick Hodge was eligible to play this year after missing a test makes me believe that under the right circumstances, this is a case that Ricky can win.And just to remind, the NFL has not officially commented on this yet, so its still far from even being an "open case" at this point. And were already talking about appeals....
drdgreenlove
Footballguy
1) why do we care if the atheletes smoke pot on their own time, especially in the off season
2) I highly doubt that anybody would play under the influenece of marijuana. Maybe baseball where it is slow and boring but not the nfl
3) I understand ricky is subject to random tests but february? give the guy a break
2) I highly doubt that anybody would play under the influenece of marijuana. Maybe baseball where it is slow and boring but not the nfl
3) I understand ricky is subject to random tests but february? give the guy a break
BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree that no one knows the facts, and ultimately the Medical Director will be determining if he violated the notification system. However, since there is nothing else to do on President's Day, I'm assuming what *your source* reported is true: Ricky was on the East coast when the NFL thought he was in India, or Ricky stayed in India longer than planned and was not at his U.S. address when the NFL attempted to notify him there. In either case, the first thing he should have done is communicated the changed itinerary to his agent, who could communicate the change to the NFL. But to your point, I'll agree that if he missed a connecting flight and arrived home/to india a few hours late, I jumped the gun calling his appeal grounds weak. If he missed his itinerary for a number of days (for valid or invalid reason) without reporting in, I'll stand by my statement. There's a reason the drug policy requires a place for notification "at all times" and it's because, alert the media, people who don't want to be tested give the wrong notice address and go missing for days.
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Sopranos
Footballguy
This from KFFL
Dolphins | Williams reportedly failed test; not missed one
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:42:17 -0800
Updating ongoing reports, ESPN's Hank Goldberg reports sources have said Miami Dolphins RB Ricky Williams' violation of the league's substance-abuse policy was in fact a failed drug test and not a matter of a missed test.
FYI O Smith missed a test and it didnt work out to well for him.
Dolphins | Williams reportedly failed test; not missed one
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:42:17 -0800
Updating ongoing reports, ESPN's Hank Goldberg reports sources have said Miami Dolphins RB Ricky Williams' violation of the league's substance-abuse policy was in fact a failed drug test and not a matter of a missed test.
FYI O Smith missed a test and it didnt work out to well for him.
Office-Linebacker
Footballguy
The fact is that nobody including the NFL, will want to hold to the letter of the law and kick a high profile player like Ricky to the curb for a year for missing a test.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
You can't seriously believe the average NFL fan is on Ricky's side here. Have you payed attention to any of these threads? About the only people on Ricky's side are people that have vested interest in him getting yards and TD's. If the NFL goes by what the average NFL fan wants, they're going to burn this guy at the stake and make an example of him, regardless of what the circumstances were.The fact is that nobody including the NFL, will want to hold to the letter of the law and kick a high profile player like Ricky to the curb for a year for missing a test.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
BigJim®
Footballguy
You can't seriously believe the average NFL fan is on Ricky's side here.The fact is that nobody including the NFL, will want to hold to the letter of the law and kick a high profile player like Ricky to the curb for a year for missing a test.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
On top of that, there's just no way in hades that the NFL goes lenient on a 3 time loser. Either he can justify not being where he said he could be contacted, or he can't. End of story. The last thing they are going to put up with is playing "What country is Ricky in?"
ratbast
Footballguy
I think you are underating what is happening in the world of sports today. If these reports are true and he either failed or missed the test for reasons of his own then the NFL will have no problem "kicking him to the curb". He's the perfect sacrificial lamb. He's already made a fiasco of his drug beliefs and the NFL would love to end their relationship with him. RW is not Peyton (hes the guy they wouldnt want to crack).The fact is that nobody including the NFL, will want to hold to the letter of the law and kick a high profile player like Ricky to the curb for a year for missing a test.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
They interviewed Hammering Hank on ESPN News. He said exactly that and it may be a few days until the NFL makes a comment.
Office-Linebacker
Footballguy
The fans that want to see Ricky burn think he's a loon for quitting the league not because of his drug problem.I really could care less if Ricky smokes pot. The bottom line is that he has game-changing talent. He makes any NFL team he's on better and in the end gives the NFL a better product to promote on the field. The average fan should want Ricky on the field because he makes any game that he is in better than it would be without him. If he goes down because of a failed drug test, that's on him but I really doubt the NFL takes him down for missing one test because of his travel schedule.You can't seriously believe the average NFL fan is on Ricky's side here. Have you payed attention to any of these threads? About the only people on Ricky's side are people that have vested interest in him getting yards and TD's. If the NFL goes by what the average NFL fan wants, they're going to burn this guy at the stake and make an example of him, regardless of what the circumstances were.The fact is that nobody including the NFL, will want to hold to the letter of the law and kick a high profile player like Ricky to the curb for a year for missing a test.
They have every right to do it, but unless he flunks a subsequent test , there is no way the NFL doesn't let this slide. As long as Ricky has a "dog ate my homework" excuse, he's home free.
It's the offseason, the guy is travelling like crazy, he's shown himself to be clean for almost a year now, he's been a model citizen. Fan perception is everything to the NFL. There is no way they'll put themselves into a position of looking like the bad guy over a missed test.
Can't wait for the press conference to see the excuse.
