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Criminal Justice and Sexual Assault (1 Viewer)

that's what I wanted to know - this is a thread about women/girls

but doesn't that kinda show in a way that ll the young boys/men sexually assaulted doesn't matter much ? I think it ALL matters .......that's my only point ...... I think sexual assaults against anyone is awful and needs addressing and paid attention to. In the post above I agreed that often sentencing is light in sexual assault crimes, and I'm not sure why it happens and that's men raping women or women teachers raping male students or whatever. That's a failure on the jury/judge
And the prosecutors and the police.

And juries are just “the citizens.”

So I agree. The problem is the police, the prosecutors, the judges, and the citizens.  Other than that everybody totally cares about sexual assault of women. 

 
Oh come on....

There’s no direct evidence that Mr. Sutherland has committed these acts,” Gregan said. “I know at this point there’s DNA. But he will have a right to his own DNA expert.”

He wants to make this argument in the courts, fine go ahead. But saying this to the press is a joke.

 
School bus driver rapes 14 year old girl he met while driving a school bus. 

Ten months probation because there was only one victim. 

https://on.khou.com/2VxHovX
Now all of us who are exposed to his verdict are victims too, but not like the girl and her loved ones who together will have to bear this forward through time.  Me, I believe I lack the strength of character to not indulge my darker angels should such a matter ever touch my wife or daughters.  I believe I would indulge my rage on both the rapist and the judge.  My outburst would, of course, not undo what had been done and it may well cause my family additional pain.  To be certain I am a flawed creature. 

 
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I assume that’s about the guy who kidnapped and kept a teen girl in a dog cage where he raped her and beat her but when was found guilty he was let out on probation? 
I think this is the third story.  That one, the bus driver and then the one I posted....but not sure.

 
At the time or days/months/years later?
It varies but who do you think is more deserving of serious jail time, a man who kidnaps a teen, starves her, abuses her and rapes her or a woman who shoots her rapist 2 days after the attack?

This woman spent 6 years in jail for firing a warning shot at her abusive husband in a stand your ground State

This 14 year old who killed her abusive father was punished more than the rapists noted above  She had even ran away several times because of the abuse and police kept taking her back home

 
Guess which statements are true about Joseph DeShan:

1. He raped and impregnated a 14 year old as a priest in 1989.

2. The school district knew about it since 2002; he got a 3 week suspension at that time.

3. A twelve year old recently reported he was hitting on her.

4. He gets to keep his job as a middle school teacher.

If you guessed “All of them!” you’ve been paying attention in here. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nj-arbitrator-teacher-child-priest

 
It varies but who do you think is more deserving of serious jail time, a man who kidnaps a teen, starves her, abuses her and rapes her or a woman who shoots her rapist 2 days after the attack?

This woman spent 6 years in jail for firing a warning shot at her abusive husband in a stand your ground State

This 14 year old who killed her abusive father was punished more than the rapists noted above  She had even ran away several times because of the abuse and police kept taking her back home
Your base case seems like an outlier.  I don’t see how he could have been punished so little unless someone screwed up so bad that a bunch of evidence got tossed.  He should be spending most of his life in prison.

The other two cases seem about right.

The first woman doesn’t appear to have been any danger when she shot at her husband.  Six years is a long time, but there was a question as to whether she actually intended to miss.  Obviously the court didn’t believe her story.

The second girl is a minor whose incarceration will be short and appears to be mostly based around processes that are trying to help her.

Neither addresses the original question though.

 
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Is the the bus driver who raped a 14 year old and did no jail time also an outlier?

In North Carolina it’s legal to to drug someone’s drink. It’s also legal there and in 10 other States to have sex with someone who is unconscious if they became unconscious due to being drunk or high. It’s illegal in California but the swimmer from Stanford only got 6 months for raping an unconscious woman.

Part of the issue of self defense during a potential rape is that the person being raped has to prove they were physically harmed or threatened with physical harm. Unwanted sex does not count. A woman saying no does not necessarily legally constitute rape and thus she could be the one facing jail time if she hurts her “rapist”. 

Here is statistic- appears to be a bit old but it’s the best I could find:

75-80% of women who killed in self-defense are convicted or convinced to plead guilty, and are sentenced to long terms.

https://solidarity-us.org/atc/130/p729/

 
Is the the bus driver who raped a 14 year old and did no jail time also an outlier?

In North Carolina it’s legal to to drug someone’s drink. It’s also legal there and in 10 other States to have sex with someone who is unconscious if they became unconscious due to being drunk or high. It’s illegal in California but the swimmer from Stanford only got 6 months for raping an unconscious woman.

Part of the issue of self defense during a potential rape is that the person being raped has to prove they were physically harmed or threatened with physical harm. Unwanted sex does not count. A woman saying no does not necessarily legally constitute rape and thus she could be the one facing jail time if she hurts her “rapist”. 

Here is statistic- appears to be a bit old but it’s the best I could find:

75-80% of women who killed in self-defense are convicted or convinced to plead guilty, and are sentenced to long terms.

https://solidarity-us.org/atc/130/p729/
I think it is, yes.

That statistic needs some context.  Your article doesn’t seem to provide any information on the study or even where the study comes from.

 
Reasonable people can disagree on that line. “He comes from a good family” isn’t it.
Exactly this. The reasoning put forth is disgusting. Especially this part:

Troiano said the girl and her family should have been told that bringing charges against the boy could have a "devastating effect" on his life.

 
I'm going to push back on this one.  We should generally not be trying minors as adults.  I can be talked into exceptions, and maybe this is one of those, but it should require clearing an exceptionally high bar.
How about a guy sending around a video of him raping a girl with the text “when your first time having sex is rape”?

 
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Reasonable people can disagree on that line. “He comes from a good family” isn’t it.
I agree.  This sort of thing is a racially-coded way of allowing white kids leniency for crimes they commit while minors, but still prosecuting black kids as adults.  The solution to that problem is to treat black kids the way we currently treat white kids, not to treat white kids the way we currently treat black kids.

 
I agree.  This sort of thing is a racially-coded way of allowing white kids leniency for crimes they commit while minors, but still prosecuting black kids as adults.  The solution to that problem is to treat black kids the way we currently treat white kids, not to treat white kids the way we currently treat black kids.
I think there’s a place for trying minors as adults and this kid falls squarely into it. 

 
I think there’s a place for trying minors as adults and this kid falls squarely into it. 
I'll defer to your judgement because I know this is your line of work, and I don't think there's anything inherently outrageous about inflicting severe criminal penalties onto a 16 year-old who deliberately commits a violent crime.  That said, I do want to reiterate that the state should have to clear a tall bar to subject a minor to adult charges and that holds in all cases.  

 
I'm going to push back on this one.  We should generally not be trying minors as adults.  I can be talked into exceptions, and maybe this is one of those, but it should require clearing an exceptionally high bar.
I agree that we shouldn't try minors as adults. But the problem here is that this minor was treated differently because of his status. 

So yes - we should treat all kids like this in general. But there's little doubt this kid's privilege was why he was treated this way.

 
This goes beyond the precise topic of this thread, but one thing that has always bugged me about debates over "white privilege" (which is absolutely a real thing) is an unstated assumption that we should remove that privilege by treating white people the way we treat minorities.  As weird as it sounds, I think that reaction is driven in large part by the "privilege" label applied to white people as opposed to the "disadvantage" label that should be applied to minorities.  But the result of that is a horrific expansion of a really bad system of law enforcement.

I've been pulled over for speeding and other traffic offenses a bunch of times.  Every time except one -- which involved a ####### campus police officer who thought pulling me and my family over for 32 in a 25 on a Sunday morning was a Hawaii-5-0 event -- has been cordial and friendly.  I have never once been in any worry about my own well-being well interacting with law enforcement.  If there is one thing that the internet has changed my mind about, it is that black people do not enjoy that luxury.  I see video after video of people who are murdered or injured by police in situations where I feel extremely confident that I would walk away from with a handshake and friendly banter.  I am very strongly in favor of criminal justice reform that makes interaction with cops better for minorities, and very strongly opposed to measures that would tilt the overall system closer to what we currently do to black folks.

 
I'll defer to your judgement because I know this is your line of work, and I don't think there's anything inherently outrageous about inflicting severe criminal penalties onto a 16 year-old who deliberately commits a violent crime.  That said, I do want to reiterate that the state should have to clear a tall bar to subject a minor to adult charges and that holds in all cases.  
That I agree with, and I definitely meant it’s my personal opinion and not my professional judgment. 

 
This goes beyond the precise topic of this thread, but one thing that has always bugged me about debates over "white privilege" (which is absolutely a real thing) is an unstated assumption that we should remove that privilege by treating white people the way we treat minorities.  As weird as it sounds, I think that reaction is driven in large part by the "privilege" label applied to white people as opposed to the "disadvantage" label that should be applied to minorities.  But the result of that is a horrific expansion of a really bad system of law enforcement.

I've been pulled over for speeding and other traffic offenses a bunch of times.  Every time except one -- which involved a ####### campus police officer who thought pulling me and my family over for 32 in a 25 on a Sunday morning was a Hawaii-5-0 event -- has been cordial and friendly.  I have never once been in any worry about my own well-being well interacting with law enforcement.  If there is one thing that the internet has changed my mind about, it is that black people do not enjoy that luxury.  I see video after video of people who are murdered or injured by police in situations where I feel extremely confident that I would walk away from with a handshake and friendly banter.  I am very strongly in favor of criminal justice reform that makes interaction with cops better for minorities, and very strongly opposed to measures that would tilt the overall system closer to what we currently do to black folks.
Oh,  absolutely. I don’t think many people intentionally argue that we should make everything worse for the privileged.  Certainly many people with privilege hear it that way so either someone’s making that argument or the argument is poorly stated. 

 

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