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Cam Newton is a baby... needs to grow up before he can be a leader (1 Viewer)

'ImTheScientist said:
'Concept Coop said:
But, bottom line, this "baby", "loser", "Jay Cutler" talk is premature and exaggerated.
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You are who you are. His personality is not going to change...thats the problem. You listed a list of Young QBs..... don't remember those guys having attitude problems EVER.
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Please tell me who he is. He is one of the best college players ever, at 2 different levels, ane reigning rookie of the year.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'ImTheScientist said:
'Concept Coop said:
But, bottom line, this "baby", "loser", "Jay Cutler" talk is premature and exaggerated.
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You are who you are. His personality is not going to change...thats the problem. You listed a list of Young QBs..... don't remember those guys having attitude problems EVER.
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Please tell me who he is. He is one of the best college players ever, at 2 different levels, ane reigning rookie of the year.
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He is Cam Newton. He's not even in the top 100 of best college players ever....unless you are 13 and your life experience is limited. The second I saw "one of the best college players ever" I realized Im done interacting with you after this post.
 
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Eli did the same thing for the first few years...throw 3rd INT of the game, pout, hang his head with that 'aww gosh, gee shucks' look on his face, pout some more, throw 4th INT...repeat next week.

 
'ImTheScientist said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Jed said:
Eli never pouts... even in his rookie year.
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Newton is being blasted for chewing gum, and setting with a towel on his head. He does those both when his team is losing and winning. Is that pouting?
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You must have missed the game last night.... or all the games he pouts in. Its not just about the gum and towel. Read the OP from the Panthers fan and let it sink in.
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I have watched roughly half of his college games and slightly more of his pro games, thus far. Defind pouting - tell me what he has done. Then, remove all actions that he also does while winning. The OP is an upset fan, not an expert.
 
'Warrior said:
Eli did the same thing for the first few years...throw 3rd INT of the game, pout, hang his head with that 'aww gosh, gee shucks' look on his face, pout some more, throw 4th INT...repeat next week.
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I must have missed the Eli superman celebration down 30.
 
'ImTheScientist said:
100 of best college players ever....unless you are 13 and your life experience is limited. The second I saw "one of the best college players ever" I realized Im done interacting with you after this post.
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Not top 100? Undefeated, Heisman winning, National championship QB that broke all kinds of passing AND rushing records in the SEC - not top 100?No need to make anything personal. If you are done interacting - just be done. Don't announce it in an attempt to insult or discredit me. (Ironic, given the subject).His Heisman victory was the 3rd largest ever, based on % of votes, AND there was controversy which likely cost him some votes. There is no debating him being one of the best college players ever, in my opinion.
 
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'ImTheScientist said:
'Warrior said:
Eli did the same thing for the first few years...throw 3rd INT of the game, pout, hang his head with that 'aww gosh, gee shucks' look on his face, pout some more, throw 4th INT...repeat next week.
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I must have missed the Eli superman celebration down 30.
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They were never down 30. When he scored, it was early 3rd, putting them down only two scores.
 
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'Concept Coop said:
'ImTheScientist said:
'Warrior said:
Eli did the same thing for the first few years...throw 3rd INT of the game, pout, hang his head with that 'aww gosh, gee shucks' look on his face, pout some more, throw 4th INT...repeat next week.
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I must have missed the Eli superman celebration down 30.
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They were never down 30. When he scored, it was early 3rd, making them down only two scored.
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They were down 23-0 with 6 and a half minutes in the third. That was the time where a leader should have tried to fire up his team and get them back into the game. Not go off into the corner of the endzone so he can have the spotlight shine soley on himself. Especially considering the way he was playing was anything but superman like.
 
'Modog814 said:
They were down 23-0 with 6 and a half minutes in the third. That was the time where a leader should have tried to fire up his team and get them back into the game. Not go off into the corner of the endzone so he can have the spotlight shine soley on himself. Especially considering the way he was playing was anything but superman like.
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How do you know how his team reacted to that? How do you know he didn't feel it would fire up the team?
 
'Concept Coop said:
'Modog814 said:
They were down 23-0 with 6 and a half minutes in the third. That was the time where a leader should have tried to fire up his team and get them back into the game. Not go off into the corner of the endzone so he can have the spotlight shine soley on himself. Especially considering the way he was playing was anything but superman like.
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How do you know how his team reacted to that? How do you know he didn't feel it would fire up the team?
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You don't. All I can do it put myself in the place of his teammates and I would think that it was a ridiculous thing to do. And obviously it didn't work since it didn't get his team fired up, they still couldn't stop the Giants and they couldn't score again. Not to mention that he had a respected teammate come over to him and call him out on his lack of profesionalism and leadership.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'ImTheScientist said:
100 of best college players ever....unless you are 13 and your life experience is limited. The second I saw "one of the best college players ever" I realized Im done interacting with you after this post.
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Not top 100? Undefeated, Heisman winning, National championship QB that broke all kinds of passing AND rushing records in the SEC - not top 100?No need to make anything personal. If you are done interacting - just be done. Don't announce it in an attempt to insult or discredit me. (Ironic, given the subject).His Heisman victory was the 3rd largest ever, based on % of votes, AND there was controversy which likely cost him some votes. There is no debating him being one of the best college players ever, in my opinion.
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:goodposting: Lots of things to say negatively about Cam, his ranks in college? Not one of them.
 
I agree with you here, Modog. I don't think he is the leader that his team needs him to be, yet. But I think he is a winner, a hard worker, and very importantly, he hasn't thrown anybody else under the bus - he is not Jay Cutler. I think the gum, towel thing are overblown.

That said, there is a difference between he and RG3 (and some others), when it comes to leadership. His body language must improve. But I think it is a very good thing that he is saying the right things, however. The rest is very subjective.

 
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We keep calling Cam a "grown man", yet think he shouldn't chew gum, put a towel over his head, or celebrate while losing...because of how other "grown men" will react to that?

 
Eli = QB in his prime, total grasp of the offense, and it doesn't matter to him who is on the field... he sees X's and O's moving around and takes what the defense gives.

Cam = QB in training, not enough confidence in the scheme to go through progressions, and predetermines where the ball is going before the snap (and stares 'em down too).

On the Superman schtick; that pretty much summed up where he's at mentally... situation begged for a G Man to point him towards the score board (probably would have drew a penalty though).

 
Good rant by the OP, but none of this should be surprising to anyone. Cam is just the latest in a long line of entitled athletes who have no regard for anyone but themselves. This was evident before he even got into the league. From big schools falling all over themselves to be the highest bidder for his services in college, to Cam not speaking to some of his Auburn teammates for weeks at a time, to the National Championship game against Oregon. Right before the game-winning FG when the game was tied at 19 and the ball was on Oregon's 1 yard line, Chizik told Cam to center the ball and take a knee to get the kicker set up. Instead, he wanted to be the hero so he called a QB sneak on his own. The play lost one yard but they won the game anyway.

This garbage used to bother me. Now, I don't let it. It is what it is. The inmates run the asylum. Be it a spoiled brat bonus-baby QB, or Stevie Johnson doing a ridiculous LOOK AT ME!!! end zone celebration which he KNOWS will cost his team 15 yards on the kickoff, or Chris Johnson putting the blame on his lineman for playing like crap. Why bother getting upset about any of it? These are the times we live in. Walter Payton and Steve Largent aren't walking through that door.

 
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'Dizzy said:
Eli = QB in his prime, total grasp of the offense, and it doesn't matter to him who is on the field... he sees X's and O's moving around and takes what the defense gives.

Cam = QB in training, not enough confidence in the scheme to go through progressions, and predetermines where the ball is going before the snap (and stares 'em down too).

On the Superman schtick; that pretty much summed up where he's at mentally... situation begged for a G Man to point him towards the score board (probably would have drew a penalty though).
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It was their FIRST drive in the 2nd half. They moved the ball well and scored. I certainly felt they had a chance to win, and would be worried if I thought Cam felt otherwise.

It wasn't garbage time, by any means. A two possession game.

 
'Concept Coop said:
I agree with you here. I don't think he is the leader that his team needs him to be, yet. But I think he is a winner, a hard worker, and very importantly, he hasn't thrown anybody else under the bus - he is not Jay Cutler. I think the gum, towel thing are overblown. That said, there is a difference between he and RG3 (and some others), when it comes to leadership. His body language must improve. But I think it is a very good thing that he is saying the right things, however. The rest is very subjective.
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I pretty much agree. I'll admit I don't know much about Cam Newton prior to his last year in college. But it seems that he's had success everywhere he's been (in terms of football). And I hear he's a hard worker, but don't know that for sure, other than people telling me so, which I have no reason to doubt. And the whole Jay Cutler things is kind of a ghost of QB Future thing, in that if he doesn't improve his leadership, some might believe it's only a matter of time before he starts throwing people under the bus. Maybe, maybe not, I'm not sure I care one way or the other.But to me, given that he's had success everywhere, and he's been said to be such a hard worker, it's a little disconcerting to see such a lack of leadership when things are, probably for the first time in his life (at least football life) are getting rough. The gum isn't a big deal to me, the towel isn't a big deal to me. The TD celebeeration I thought was unneccesary but as you said, maybe he thought his team would feed off it. I think it was a mistake, but that's just my opinion. The big thing, is that twice now, teammates have openly confronted him about his attitude. That, to me, says more about his character than any amount of gum chewing ever could.It could be that it's the first time he's had to deal with losing consistantly and he isn't sure how to act, and he'll learn from it and grow into the role. Kind of like the first time you don't let your kid or little brother or sister win. They lose and they get mad because they're used to winning and don't know how to act. Or it could be that he's just exremely disappointed in himself and the way he played. I'm not a shrink so I won't pretend to know which is more likely, but either way, it's something he's got to get past, and quickly. And it is a good sign that he's saying the right things. But i'm sure you know that actions speak louder than words.
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I am not going to dump on Cam (although he does need to grow up) but instead I will say Steve Smith is without question my favorite player in the NFL. Does anyone have more fire and passion than Smitty? And I love that he goes off on his QB when he needed just that. He's lucky Smitty did the yelling with his mouth and not his fists. :boxing:

 
What I saw in the presser was a guy saying things he figured he was supposed to say. He came off as entirely insincere.

"We embarrassed ourselves tonight".

/looks at watch

Can I go now?

 
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While we're on the subject: SMITH made a big deal on a first down catch AFTER Newton's touchdown. Why is he not being blasted?

 
'Concept Coop said:
While we're on the subject: SMITH made a big deal on a first down catch AFTER Newton's touchdown. Why is he not being blasted?
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I was just going to say that Smith was a little guilty of the overreacting while down by so much too. But I do believe that what Smith did is more likely to fire his team up than what Newton did. Maybe it's just my perception though.
 
'Modog814 said:
'Concept Coop said:
While we're on the subject: SMITH made a big deal on a first down catch AFTER Newton's touchdown. Why is he not being blasted?
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I was just going to say that Smith was a little guilty of the overreacting while down by so much too. But I do believe that what Smith did is more likely to fire his team up than what Newton did. Maybe it's just my perception though.
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Yeah, a 30 yard catch is much more likely to fire up the team than actually scoring.
 
A lot of nitpicking in here.

I'm concerned about Cam as passer and a QB, but this is a lot of overreacting about chewing gum and a towel on the head.

The playcalling stinks and Cam's prone to poor mechanics and accuracy issues. Those are the problems, and I hope like hell they get solved (or at least he can thrive despite them als Roethlisberger).

I'm a moderately worried that he might never recover from the Ron Rivera era.

I'm not worried about the attitude and leadership abilities. This is the same kid that brought Auburn back from down 24-0 to a Saban coached Alabama team.

 
Its almost always results oriented analysis when evaluating stuff like this....

Take the 1989 Super Bowl against the Cincinnati Bengals. The San Francisco 49ers were down by three points with 3:20 left when Montana spotted -- no, not an open receiver -- but a personality. "There, in the stands, standing near the exit ramp," Montana said to tackle Harris Barton. "Isn't that John Candy?" And then he led the 49ers 92 yards, throwing for the winning touchdown with 34 seconds left.
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Because Joe Montana wins a lot of games, hes "so cool under pressure" when he does stuff like this.But now imagine if this same story came out about Tony Romo after one of his late game fails....everyone would be saying "OMG, he cares more about some random celebrity in the stands than his team!!!"Or consider how Magic Johnson was praised for his "love of the game" because he was constantly smiling and "having fun out there." But when Lebron James was doing the same thing but didn't win any titles it was all "He doesn't take the game seriously enough."Bottom line: When you win, people are going to look at your personality and come up with narratives that explain why your personality is conducive to winning; When you lose people are going to look at your personality and come up with narratives that explain why your personality is conducive to losing. In reality, talent and skill matter a ton more though.I do think Steve Smith/other teammates calling him out is the best point against Cam. Its very possible that he is a NORMAL young player who will mature over time. But all of this "OMG, he'll never learn...hes going to be just like ________(insert QB here who has not won a title so people find a reason to bash his personality as if that were a major cause)" is over the top.
 
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'SacramentoBob said:
'Modog814 said:
'Concept Coop said:
While we're on the subject: SMITH made a big deal on a first down catch AFTER Newton's touchdown. Why is he not being blasted?
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I was just going to say that Smith was a little guilty of the overreacting while down by so much too. But I do believe that what Smith did is more likely to fire his team up than what Newton did. Maybe it's just my perception though.
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Yeah, a 30 yard catch is much more likely to fire up the team than actually scoring.
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Not the play, the action following the play.
 
Okay, we've beat the absolute crap out of Cam. Now, let's get down to real business and why we're here. Is he an ultimate buy low candidate? I say yes. He's got a few brutal weeks ahead, but after his bye it gets much easier. So, what's Cam worth? I know, I know, it depends on what the owner has for the rest of his/her team, but what's a reasonable offer. A good RB/WR and a throw-in QB???

 
'Da Guru said:
Steve Smith ripped Newton after the game for his actions.Newt needs to stop the Superman routine when his team is getting their asses kicked and he is playing crappy. Shows his immaturity. Newt has all the makings of the next Jay Cutler.
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You mean like Smith struttin' his stuff after every single catch when they are down 20 late in the 4th in garbage time? Talk about :potkettle:
 
'tarheel4ever said:
Okay, we've beat the absolute crap out of Cam. Now, let's get down to real business and why we're here. Is he an ultimate buy low candidate? I say yes. He's got a few brutal weeks ahead, but after his bye it gets much easier. So, what's Cam worth? I know, I know, it depends on what the owner has for the rest of his/her team, but what's a reasonable offer. A good RB/WR and a throw-in QB???
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Absolutely. He is still being used as the primary goal line back, and - as we saw last week - the rushing yards will come.
 
'ImTheScientist said:
'Assani Fisher said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38796000/jpg/_38796005_towelget298.jpghttp://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/286072-1/Kobe+Bryant+in+Lakers+warm+ups+road+jacket+has+towel+on+his+head.JPGwhat terrible leaders, right?
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He plays football.
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I also wondered why he puts the towel over his head on the sideline, no matter when winning or losing. When one of my friends was at one of the early preseason practices last year asked him about it, Newton told him it was because he was emulating his boyhood hero who happened to be Michael Jordan. I'll see if I can find the post and copy it over from the Panthers Lair.
 
'Judge Smails said:
'Da Guru said:
Steve Smith ripped Newton after the game for his actions.

Newt needs to stop the Superman routine when his team is getting their asses kicked and he is playing crappy. Shows his immaturity. Newt has all the makings of the next Jay Cutler.
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You mean like Smith struttin' his stuff after every single catch when they are down 20 late in the 4th in garbage time? Talk about :potkettle:
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Steve Smith did not rip Newton for his Superman antics, and Steve Smith strutting his stuff after a catch is him staying fired up the entire game whether they are winning or losing. Here is what Smith said to Newton:

In the final minutes of the Panthers' 36-7 loss to the Giants on Thursday, veteran wideout Steve Smith lit into quarterback Cam Newton on the sideline and told him to get off the bench and stop sulking.

After Newton threw his third interception with 6:36 remaining in the game, backup quarterback Derek Anderson began warming up on the sideline. Anderson came in with about a minute left for the final series.

"I watched D.A. and Jimmy (Clausen), they don't play in 20-something games last year. And they get up and they observe and learn and get those mental reps," Smith said. "I told him, 'You can get some mental reps or you can sit on that bench and sulk.'"

Smith, a team captain, said he used some "unchoice words" with Newton, who was criticized last year for putting a towel over his head and sitting on the bench at the end of losses.

This is the second time in as many seasons the Panthers' captains have talked to Newton about his demeanor. Offensive linemen Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil took Newton aside last year and said he needed to bring more positive energy to the huddle.

Newton was not available for comment Friday. A team spokesman said he would be available on Wednesday, per the team's normal policy with Newton.

Smith said he's more concerned about Newton's development as a person than as a leader. But Smith knows how important Newton is to the organization.

"Cam Newton has a very unique opportunity to be a franchise quarterback to an organization that needs one," Smith said. "Statistics don't lie. Athletic quarterbacks, they either excel or they fail. And I told Cam that.

"This is an opportunity for him to learn – at that time they were benching him – and observe. They put D.A. in. You can sit there, if this is the worst is going to get you're in for a long day and this is not what it's about."

Panthers coach Ron Rivera said he handles Newton in his own way, and believes questions about his leadership will be moot when the team starts winning.

As for Smith's exchange with Newton, Rivera said: "He's a team captain and he went up and expressed his feelings. That's between them. I do know that team captains have that responsibility. They feel they have the responsibilities to the team and they'll handle them accordingly."
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'simey said:
'Judge Smails said:
'Da Guru said:
Steve Smith ripped Newton after the game for his actions.

Newt needs to stop the Superman routine when his team is getting their asses kicked and he is playing crappy. Shows his immaturity. Newt has all the makings of the next Jay Cutler.
Click to expand...
You mean like Smith struttin' his stuff after every single catch when they are down 20 late in the 4th in garbage time? Talk about :potkettle:
Click to expand...
Steve Smith did not rip Newton for his Superman antics, and Steve Smith strutting his stuff after a catch is him staying fired up the entire game whether they are winning or losing. Here is what Smith said to Newton:

In the final minutes of the Panthers' 36-7 loss to the Giants on Thursday, veteran wideout Steve Smith lit into quarterback Cam Newton on the sideline and told him to get off the bench and stop sulking.

After Newton threw his third interception with 6:36 remaining in the game, backup quarterback Derek Anderson began warming up on the sideline. Anderson came in with about a minute left for the final series.

"I watched D.A. and Jimmy (Clausen), they don't play in 20-something games last year. And they get up and they observe and learn and get those mental reps," Smith said. "I told him, 'You can get some mental reps or you can sit on that bench and sulk.'"

Smith, a team captain, said he used some "unchoice words" with Newton, who was criticized last year for putting a towel over his head and sitting on the bench at the end of losses.

This is the second time in as many seasons the Panthers' captains have talked to Newton about his demeanor. Offensive linemen Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil took Newton aside last year and said he needed to bring more positive energy to the huddle.

Newton was not available for comment Friday. A team spokesman said he would be available on Wednesday, per the team's normal policy with Newton.

Smith said he's more concerned about Newton's development as a person than as a leader. But Smith knows how important Newton is to the organization.

"Cam Newton has a very unique opportunity to be a franchise quarterback to an organization that needs one," Smith said. "Statistics don't lie. Athletic quarterbacks, they either excel or they fail. And I told Cam that.

"This is an opportunity for him to learn – at that time they were benching him – and observe. They put D.A. in. You can sit there, if this is the worst is going to get you're in for a long day and this is not what it's about."

Panthers coach Ron Rivera said he handles Newton in his own way, and believes questions about his leadership will be moot when the team starts winning.

As for Smith's exchange with Newton, Rivera said: "He's a team captain and he went up and expressed his feelings. That's between them. I do know that team captains have that responsibility. They feel they have the responsibilities to the team and they'll handle them accordingly."
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I don't have a link but I heard that after the game Rivera was asked why he didn't take Smith out when the rest of the starters were pulled. He said he tried but Steve wouldn't come out. Love the the passion Smitty plays with. Have my doubts about Rivera being a head coach.
 
'Pantherz said:
I don't have a link but I heard that after the game Rivera was asked why he didn't take Smith out when the rest of the starters were pulled. He said he tried but Steve wouldn't come out. Love the the passion Smitty plays with. Have my doubts about Rivera being a head coach.
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It's passion when it's Smith, it's a maturity issue when it's Newton. Had Newton punched a teammate or refused to leave a game...
 
'Pantherz said:
'simey said:
'Judge Smails said:
'Da Guru said:
Steve Smith ripped Newton after the game for his actions.

Newt needs to stop the Superman routine when his team is getting their asses kicked and he is playing crappy. Shows his immaturity. Newt has all the makings of the next Jay Cutler.
Click to expand...
You mean like Smith struttin' his stuff after every single catch when they are down 20 late in the 4th in garbage time? Talk about :potkettle:
Click to expand...
Steve Smith did not rip Newton for his Superman antics, and Steve Smith strutting his stuff after a catch is him staying fired up the entire game whether they are winning or losing. Here is what Smith said to Newton:

In the final minutes of the Panthers' 36-7 loss to the Giants on Thursday, veteran wideout Steve Smith lit into quarterback Cam Newton on the sideline and told him to get off the bench and stop sulking.

After Newton threw his third interception with 6:36 remaining in the game, backup quarterback Derek Anderson began warming up on the sideline. Anderson came in with about a minute left for the final series.

"I watched D.A. and Jimmy (Clausen), they don't play in 20-something games last year. And they get up and they observe and learn and get those mental reps," Smith said. "I told him, 'You can get some mental reps or you can sit on that bench and sulk.'"

Smith, a team captain, said he used some "unchoice words" with Newton, who was criticized last year for putting a towel over his head and sitting on the bench at the end of losses.

This is the second time in as many seasons the Panthers' captains have talked to Newton about his demeanor. Offensive linemen Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil took Newton aside last year and said he needed to bring more positive energy to the huddle.

Newton was not available for comment Friday. A team spokesman said he would be available on Wednesday, per the team's normal policy with Newton.

Smith said he's more concerned about Newton's development as a person than as a leader. But Smith knows how important Newton is to the organization.

"Cam Newton has a very unique opportunity to be a franchise quarterback to an organization that needs one," Smith said. "Statistics don't lie. Athletic quarterbacks, they either excel or they fail. And I told Cam that.

"This is an opportunity for him to learn – at that time they were benching him – and observe. They put D.A. in. You can sit there, if this is the worst is going to get you're in for a long day and this is not what it's about."

Panthers coach Ron Rivera said he handles Newton in his own way, and believes questions about his leadership will be moot when the team starts winning.

As for Smith's exchange with Newton, Rivera said: "He's a team captain and he went up and expressed his feelings. That's between them. I do know that team captains have that responsibility. They feel they have the responsibilities to the team and they'll handle them accordingly."
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I don't have a link but I heard that after the game Rivera was asked why he didn't take Smith out when the rest of the starters were pulled. He said he tried but Steve wouldn't come out. Love the the passion Smitty plays with. Have my doubts about Rivera being a head coach.
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me too man, me too... always been my favorite player to watch... I hope Cam can learn something from him so that he can be the leader this team needs
 
'DeaLerZ said:
me too man, me too... always been my favorite player to watch... I hope Cam can learn something from him so that he can be the leader this team needs
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Sucker punches, ignoring coaches, and throwing teammates under the bus, in the media: Leadership.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'DeaLerZ said:
me too man, me too... always been my favorite player to watch... I hope Cam can learn something from him so that he can be the leader this team needs
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Sucker punches, ignoring coaches, and throwing teammates under the bus, in the media: Leadership.
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wasn't saying anything about Smitty's leadership.. that is obviously not up to par... was referring to his passion for the game, and I wish that would rub off on to Cam
 
'Concept Coop said:
'DeaLerZ said:
me too man, me too... always been my favorite player to watch... I hope Cam can learn something from him so that he can be the leader this team needs
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Sucker punches, ignoring coaches, and throwing teammates under the bus, in the media: Leadership.
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Rumor has it that he also wears white shoes after labor day AND rips tags off of mattresses. That man is one bad seed.
 
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