What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Athlete Turns Her Back on the Flag During National Anthem (2 Viewers)

The General said:
She has a huge platform here with which she will get her moment to speak and reach millions of people. This happened because of this action. 

The rub is that this action leaves her a very difficult path. Takes a very special person and powerful speaker to do this effectively now.
Click to expand...
Another reason I hate these anthem protests is that it detracts from the legitimate issues these people are fighting for.  And yes that genuinely pisses me off.  System racism is very real and very insidious.

 
ekbeats said:
Another reason I hate these anthem protests is that it detracts from the legitimate issues these people are fighting for.  And yes that genuinely pisses me off.  System racism is very real and very insidious.
Click to expand...
We agree there are very real problems.

Athletes have leveraged their fame to address these issues for quite awhile now. It can be very effective. There aren’t many Ali’s out there though that can navigate this. 

I understand many of the points you have raised. Both sides of this discussion can be argued effectively. This is such a nuanced topic. 

The “she should leave the country stuff” is just infantile to me. 

 
ekbeats said:
Here’s my problem with disrespecting the anthem and the flag.  Symbols and traditions matter.  They always have.  That is why we have them.  And that is why I was so insistent that the confederate flags and statues come down.  They were a big middle finger to millions of Americans who suffered and sacrificed fighting evil to make our present state as good as it is today.  That needs to be honored.

In 1944 my wife’s grandfather was shot down over Germany.  He never met his son (my wife’s father).  That loss has reverberated through the generations and still indirectly affects my wife to this day.  His honor flag is proudly displayed over our mantle.  It’s all we have of him - not even a photograph.  My father fought in WWII as well.  He was one of those guys who graduated high school and enlisted the very next day.  He survived the war but gave up what should have been the best years of his life.  I don’t have his flag but every time I see a flag I think of him.

The National Anthem is a brief moment in time where those sacrifices should be honored and respected.  It’s not a place for protests, grandstanding, or displays of anger towards the country.  It’s really that simple.  I personally view it as extremely disrespectful and I always will.  Quite honestly it makes my blood boil.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that people have different perspectives

PERHAPS Berry is also related to someone who went to war for this county but when that person came back from serving, they were treated like #### as many African American soldiers were.

I had no idea who Gwen Berry was before this thread so I’m not saying this is her story, just more of a devil’s advocate post

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know many in here will find this hard to believe,  but in the past year I waged one of the most hard fought battles against systemic racism in the country.  Someday soon I’ll talk about it because it’s really an amazing story on so many levels.  I know how it works, believe me.  In our movement it was a very organized and thoughtful campaign, using both the carrot and the stick.  And you know which part of the movement I led?  The stick.  Actually it was more like scorched earth.  I had no compunctions about doing it though, because I truly believed the people we were fighting against needed that smack in the face.  On this issue though, the people being hurt are by and large innocent - people who simply love the country and ask for a nothing but a modicum of respect for the sacrifices made by their relatives and countrymen.  Pissing them off is just wrong, and in my opinion ineffective to the cause.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
ekbeats said:
I know many in here will find this hard to believe,  but in the past year I waged one of the most hard fought battles against systemic racism in the country.  Someday soon I’ll talk about it because it’s really an amazing story on so many levels.  I know how it works, believe me.  In our movement it was a very organized and thoughtful campaign, using both the carrot and the stick.  And you know which part of the movement I led?  The stick.  Actually it was more like scorched earth.  I had no compunctions about doing it though, because I truly believed the people we were fighting against needed that smack in the face.  On this issue though, the people being hurt are by and large innocent - people who simply love the country and ask for a nothing but a modicum of respect for the sacrifices made by their relatives and countrymen.  Pissing them off is just wrong, and in my opinion ineffective to the cause.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your posts in here and I'm sorry if my earlier posts were offensive in some way.  I do want to explain a little of my point of view and maybe it would be helpful in lowering your animosity towards this sort of thing just a tiny bit.

In my view the flag and the playing of the national anthem are not about military veterans.  They are symbols of the country as a whole.  I suspect that's true of many of us that encourage/tolerate these sorts of displays.  Memorial Day, Veterans Day, Arlington cemetary, the Vietnam Memorial, to me those are the places and times that are devoted to commemorating people that fought in the military for this country.  If someone pulled a disrespectful stunt at one of those sorts of events, I would share your feelings that the person was disrespecting the war dead.

So when someone does something like this, instead of assuming that she's doing it to disrespect your family members that served, it might be less troubling if you just assume that she has a different view of the symbolism of the flag and national anthem than you do.  Because that wouldn't be unreasonable to think -- lots of us feel that way.  It's still possible to criticize her for her actions, but I don't think it's fair to equate disrespect towards the flag and anthem as the equivalent of disrespect towards those that fought in wars for the country.

 
ekbeats said:
Thanks man.  Can’t say how much I love that post.  It’s what’s best about America, and humanity for that matter.  You and I were blessed to have such great people in our past.  We seem yo be in the minority these days, certainly in here at least.  Keep the faith brother.
Click to expand...
Both his story and yours were awesome.    Seriously, I love reading those stories and deeply appreciate you both sharing them.

But it’s a huge stretch to assume you are in the minority.  My grandfather and all 3 of his brothers fought in WWII.   2 of them were injured fighting on some island in the Pacific.  (My dad says Okinawa, but I’m not sure that is accurate).  All 4 made it home without life threatening injuries.  
 

My dad fought in Vietnam.  He was out “in the bush” as he would say for about 9 months, and also spent time on a patrol boat in the Mekong.  One of his best friends died in front of him.   He didn’t talk much about it when I was younger but shares stories now, and it all just sounds so intense.   He’s one of the most mentally and physically tough people I’ve ever known.

I learned a lot from all of those guys (except my grandfather who died before I was born).  My great uncles graciously acted as surrogate grandfathers for me, and they shared stories about the war while sitting by the campfire in northern WI.

My guess is that a lot of people have stories like this.  I don’t personally talk about it much, because it’s not really relevant.  IMO the flag belongs to everyone, not just my dad, or his dad, or his uncles.   My dad has no issue with people burning the flag or protesting during the anthem.  His view is “I risked my life so that others could have this freedom.”  That said, I know he personally wishes people found other outlets for protest — but he doesn’t want to see anyone leave the country because of their vehicle for protest.

That’s just one guy’s view.  One veteran.  I get why this is so personal and offensive to a lot of people.   But I also get why our history of racism is offensive to other people.  And I don’t have experience with either side of the issue personally, so I’m just going to keep listening.   The above wasn’t my story, it was my dad’s, and he gave me permission to share it here.

Don’t lose faith in people or this experiment that is America!   And thanks for sharing your thoughts.   :)

 
KarmaPolice said:
Maybe be more specific as to who you don't think love their country and why?  

Pretty bold accusation there.   
Click to expand...
Not allowed to say per the mods.  However a general dislike of America is definitely prevalent here.  I've called it out many times. Lots and lots of threads/ posts about how America sucks in this area, or that area.  Belarus, Syria, Korea are wonderful countries and we seem to suck.  

And before anyone replies, spare me the "Well its because I love my country that I complain about it all the time, to make it better"

 
bigbottom said:
Based on the statements from her that I read, I’m not so sure about the bolded with respect to this particular instance.  This wasn’t a planned act of protest to bring attention to an issue of injustice.  No, in this instance, she was actually surprised and ticked off that the national anthem was playing at the time she was receiving her award (apparently it gets played at set times of the day).  She thought it was disrespectful to her that the anthem was playing at that time. If that is her position, I have to say that I’m not really that excited about having her represent our country if I’m being honest.
Click to expand...
Think I have to agree.

 
supermike80 said:
Not allowed to say per the mods.  However a general dislike of America is definitely prevalent here.  I've called it out many times. Lots and lots of threads/ posts about how America sucks in this area, or that area.  Belarus, Syria, Korea are wonderful countries and we seem to suck.  

And before anyone replies, spare me the "Well its because I love my country that I complain about it all the time, to make it better"
Click to expand...
What was the point of "Make American Great Again"? 

 
Mile High said:
What was the point of "Make American Great Again"? 
Click to expand...
it is humorous that a good portion who seem to feel like Mike does also took to the above, where they specifically state America wasn't great.  

(I am not saying Mike is a MAGA guy, I have 0 clue, just piggybacking on what I think your point is driving at) 

 
KarmaPolice said:
it is humorous that a good portion who seem to feel like Mike does also took to the above, where they specifically state America wasn't great.  

(I am not saying Mike is a MAGA guy, I have 0 clue, just piggybacking on what I think your point is driving at) 
Click to expand...
Looks like lots of Americans for some reason or another do/don't/didn't think America is all that great.

 
She probably wouldn't make it to the Olympics if she did this representing Russia or China. While she may have issues with the song (I guess she only said she had issue with the song and not the flag), the "freedom" in the US allows her to protest against what allows her to protest. She is claiming to be a victim by being surprised when the song was played and thus "setting" her up. Does she know the song might be played while she is on the medal stand in the Olympics? 

 
Phil Elliott said:
She probably wouldn't make it to the Olympics if she did this representing Russia or China. While she may have issues with the song (I guess she only said she had issue with the song and not the flag), the "freedom" in the US allows her to protest against what allows her to protest. She is claiming to be a victim by being surprised when the song was played and thus "setting" her up. Does she know the song might be played while she is on the medal stand in the Olympics? 
Click to expand...
This is the good part of being American. 

 
The General said:
This is the good part of being American. 
Click to expand...
Not to be argumentative but we always say this like it's rare. You can turn your back on the flag or kneel or dance or do whatever you want in pretty much every first world country there is.  

When people are trying to get an emotional reaction out of these stories they always compare to russia and china like they are our peers in some way.  

 
killface said:
Not to be argumentative but we always say this like it's rare. You can turn your back on the flag or kneel or dance or do whatever you want in pretty much every first world country there is.  

When people are trying to get an emotional reaction out of these stories they always compare to russia and china like they are our peers in some way.  
Click to expand...
Very true. 

 
Mile High said:
Seems everywhere. Millions of Americans don't seem to like America as it is possibly 100s of millions. 
Click to expand...
Bizarre that in my day to day life at work, at parties, family gatherings whatever I never hear anyone talking about stuff like this.   Never heard anyone of any race or creed say they don`t like America. My wifes side of the family came here dead broke and now are small business owners doing very well for themselves without a college education.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Bizarre that in my day to day life at work, at parties, family gatherings whatever I never hear anyone talking about stuff like this.   Never heard anyone of any race or creed say they don`t like America. My wifes side of the family came here dead broke and now are small business owners doing very well for themselves without a college education.
Click to expand...
We had 10s of millions vote for a party that was Pushing MAGA. Would have to think lots of them weren't happy with America. Add in all the left that hate America, that's a lot of people. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mile High said:
We had 10s of millions vote for a party that was Pushing MAGA. Would have to think lots of them weren't happy with America. Add in all the left that hate America, that's a lot of people. 
Click to expand...
Well to think every republican voted for Trump because of MAGA shows that you don't know much about this stuff.

I mean its cute what you are trying to do here...But no

 
Mile High said:
We had 10s of millions vote for a party that was Pushing MAGA. Would have to think lots of them weren't happy with America. Add in all the left that hate America, that's a lot of people. 
Click to expand...
I know many business people who voted for Trump including my minority in-laws. Had nothing to do with with anything other than they felt he was better for the economics of the country be it right or wrong.

 
ekbeats said:
I would have bet my house that one of the first Liberal response in here would have been about their right to protest rather than condemning the act of disrespect and divisiveness.  This is why we are screwed as a country.  If we can't at least agree on our core principles that are embodied in the flag and the anthem then I really don't see it getting better anytime soon.  The ties that bind a nation together are very tenuous, especially in a multi-cultural one like ours.  But hey - not worth arguing about I guess.  It is what it is.  Acts like this will just polarize sides even further and hasten the inevitable.  Just glad that I'll be fighting beside people like Paul Chelimo and not Gwen Berry.
Click to expand...
One of the things the flag represents is the right to speech and protest. That is about as core to this country as anything. If you truly support those ideals then you should at least tolerate when it happens. You can disagree with the time, place, method, reason, etc but also should acknowledge that it's their right and that is proof that America is a free society. If you are talking about polarization, you are playing a key role in it. I saw the picture of her turning her back and said "oh well, ok" and just moved on. For this to be polarizing, it requires people to get bent out of shape and draw all kinds of huge conclusions from it.

It is what it is. Just another of millions of Americans who have exercised their American rights. 

 
So apparently they never play the national anthem during Olympic trials podium ceremonies normally, but at a set time each day, and it happened to time with that medal ceremony.

Weird story all around

 
Ilov80s said:
One of the things the flag represents is the right to speech and protest. That is about as core to this country as anything. If you truly support those ideals then you should at least tolerate when it happens. You can disagree with the time, place, method, reason, etc but also should acknowledge that it's their right and that is proof that America is a free society. If you are talking about polarization, you are playing a key role in it. I saw the picture of her turning her back and said "oh well, ok" and just moved on. For this to be polarizing, it requires people to get bent out of shape and draw all kinds of huge conclusions from it.

It is what it is. Just another of millions of Americans who have exercised their American rights. 
Click to expand...
Normally I would agree.  I couldn't care less about the NFL Kneeling.  I figure it is america and thats a right we all have.

But in this case, I disagree. Shes literally there representing our country, and if she can't at least show some respect for the country she is there to represent, then find something else to do and open up a spot for someone else.

I'm not getting bent out of shape over it, because after all I still have to pay my mortgage regardless, but I do think it's in bad taste.

 
Ilov80s said:
One of the things the flag represents is the right to speech and protest. That is about as core to this country as anything. If you truly support those ideals then you should at least tolerate when it happens. You can disagree with the time, place, method, reason, etc but also should acknowledge that it's their right and that is proof that America is a free society. If you are talking about polarization, you are playing a key role in it. I saw the picture of her turning her back and said "oh well, ok" and just moved on. For this to be polarizing, it requires people to get bent out of shape and draw all kinds of huge conclusions from it.

It is what it is. Just another of millions of Americans who have exercised their American rights. 
Click to expand...
I agree.  Anyone can protest whatever they want, anyone can bash protesters as well. Let both sides do whatever as they have the right.

 
ekbeats said:
I know many in here will find this hard to believe,  but in the past year I waged one of the most hard fought battles against systemic racism in the country.  Someday soon I’ll talk about it because it’s really an amazing story on so many levels.  I know how it works, believe me.  In our movement it was a very organized and thoughtful campaign, using both the carrot and the stick.  And you know which part of the movement I led?  The stick.  Actually it was more like scorched earth.  I had no compunctions about doing it though, because I truly believed the people we were fighting against needed that smack in the face.  On this issue though, the people being hurt are by and large innocent - people who simply love the country and ask for a nothing but a modicum of respect for the sacrifices made by their relatives and countrymen.  Pissing them off is just wrong, and in my opinion ineffective to the cause.
Click to expand...
I am interested in your story.  I would have to ask though, are you a white person outside looking in or a minority inside looking out?  And do you see how those perspectives may be different?

 
Summer Wheat said:
I agree.  Anyone can protest whatever they want, anyone can bash protesters as well. Let both sides do whatever as they have the right.
Click to expand...
He is free too. Just don't complain about the polarization of America at the same time. It takes 2 to tango. 

 
General Malaise said:
Hold up....

A bronze medalist in the female hammer throw at the Olympic Trials turned her back in protest?  This is what has you all hot and bothered?  

My man.....
Click to expand...
The same folks outraged about this I’m sure posted their outrage here when the insurgents used flags to attack the cops on Jan 6.

 
So we can all agree it makes our American blood boil just as equally when we see flags defaced with blue Lives matter, all manner of Trump propaganda, worn as clothing. I mean when I see an American flag with Trump all decked out like Rambo that has always confused me why we lose our minds at a simple quiet kneel but all other means that disrespect the the flag is A-OK.   

Those are all against flag protocol and no one says bupkus. What gives? 

Or could it possibly be about the person doing it?  

 
Jackstraw said:
So we can all agree it makes our American blood boil just as equally when we see flags defaced with blue Lives matter, all manner of Trump propaganda, worn as clothing. I mean when I see an American flag with Trump all decked out like Rambo that has always confused me why we lose our minds at a simple quiet kneel but all other means that disrespect the the flag is A-OK.   

Those are all against flag protocol and no one says bupkus. What gives? 

Or could it possibly be about the person doing it?  
Click to expand...
Again, for like the trillionth time.   If someone "quietly" pees on the flag at home..I don't care.

You do it on a national scale, while directly representing your country, I will not be pleased with that. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
The Official Katie Porter (HOR/D-CA45) And Her "Whiteboard Of Justice" Appreciation Thread (10/24/22 17:34 PST)
Replies
2
Views
341
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
16 Year Old Iranian Schoolgirl Is Beaten To Death For Refusing To Sing "Pro-Regime Anthem" (10/7/22 07:28 PST)
Replies
18
Views
832
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
WNBA Brittney Griner Loses Drug Appeal / Sentenced To 9 Years In A Brutal Russian Penal Colony (5/15/22 21:04 PST)
2
Replies
74
Views
3K
Stealthycat
Stealthycat

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top