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Ask Your Resident Right-Winger Why He Doesn't Support Trump (2 Viewers)

This is a great distinction, as I think many (including myself) would leap to the assumption that someone with conservative beliefs = Republican.  Unfortunately, with an essentially two party system, it's more often true than not.  Which of all the candidates most closely aligned with your views?
Rand Paul did. He was willing to reach across the aisle on criminal justice and the NSA with Wyden and co., but that went nowhere. 

eta* Note that he went after Trump right away, probably sensing that the mood of the party, which he probably learned from his father, was rather populist in nature.  

 
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I will say this: I do support his nomination to the Supreme Court. I also support Betsy DeVos for Secretary of Education. Aside from the massive problems in our criminal justice system, education is also the product of complete systemic racism, only in the form of public labor unions from the left. There is no reason a child a mile away from a great school should be forced to go to another. It makes no sense to me, and should make no sense to anybody. 

Democrats at the vanguard of civil rights issues ought to see the teachers' unions for what they are, and support education, vouchers, and charters, no matter how much religion leaks through the back door.    

 
Rand Paul did. He was willing to reach across the aisle on criminal justice and the NSA with Wyden and co., but that went nowhere. 
Like his dad, he's a great example of someone who has had to jump into the Republican Party, because he most likely wouldn't have been elected if he was on a small party (Libertarian) ticket.  People don't understand nuance anymore.  You are Republican or Democrat....period.  And I think those assumptions are partially what lead to the banter you are referring to...

 
Very true, NB. That was a mistake and a faulty premise on my part.  

Citizens of IranSomaliaSudanYemen, Syria and Libya will face a 90-day suspension of visa processing as the administration analyzes how to strengthen vetting procedures, according to a homeland security summary of the order.
And look what came out of it - landmark states rights decisions in 2 circuits which conservatives will be able to cite for years to come to restrict executive authority- which they will. But that came in opposition to Trump.

 
And look what came out of it - landmark states rights decisions in 2 circuits which conservatives will be able to cite for years to come to restrict executive authority- which they will. But that came in opposition to Trump.
You don't need to tell me that. Conservative rebuke to Trump might be something that actually unites conservatives. The one thing that gives me pause is dealing with the devil. At what point does one accept Bannon's "destruction" of the administrative state, which I've been calling for for years as part and parcel to the administration and the other things as necessary evils?  

I am a bit conflicted on that.  

 
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At what point to you accept Bannon's "destruction" of the administrative state, which I've been calling for for years as part and parcel to the administration and the other things as necessary evils?  
Idealistically, from a federalist standpoint, maybe it makes sense, if the premise is that the states will pick up the ball and handle affairs that the people want or need handled. I live in an impossibly corrupt state but also an apathetic one. Ideally I'd say let the state of LA handle health care, but we have dismantled what was a pretty good state health system. I would say, hey let the state of LA handle environmental quality and defense of wetlands. But our DEQ and local and state officials right up to the governor (well Jindal anyway) were literally a phone call away for landfill operators and oil companies with no love or allegiance to ourselves, our coast, bayous or or our safety and prime industry (seafood). The Jeffersonian in me says local decisions are the best decisions, but I have a serious problem with our local officials having a commitment to the republican [small r] side of things where they are supposed to represent the people's interests.

 
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Idealistically, from a federalist standpoint, maybe it makes sense, if the premise is that the states will pick up the ball and handle affairs that the people want handled. I live in an impossibly corrupt state but also an apathetic one. Ideally I'd say let the state of LA handle health care, but we have dismantled what was a pretty good state health system. I would say, hey let the state of LA handle environmental quality and defense of wetlands. But our DEQ and local and state officials right up to the governor (well Jindal anyway) were literally a phone call away for landfill operators and oil companies with no love or allegiance to ourselves, our coast, bayous or or our safety and prime industry (seafood). The Jeffersonian in me says local decisions are the best decisions, but I have a serious problem with our local officials having a commitment to the republican [small r] side of things where they are supposed to represent the people's interests.
I totally see your point and have seen it living in bigger cities with city services like street sweeping, towing, etc. It's why local politics is so important, but national politics dominate the headlines. But how much of that is circular. I think you'd see a devolution, as it were, to a proper view of the separation of powers if we were to deconstruct the administrative state, but it may be too far gone. Federal oversight is likely always, it just depends on the level of it.  

 
I've pointed them out in later posts: I support his Supreme Court nominee, the Secretary of Education, and Bannon's claim to want to "deconstruct" the administrative state. 
Huh.  I see Devos as one of his worst appointments.  Granted, I'm not sure I can name one of his appointments that I liked, but Devos has to be near the bottom of a bad barrel.

 
Huh.  I see Devos as one of his worst appointments.  Granted, I'm not sure I can name one of his appointments that I liked, but Devos has to be near the bottom of a bad barrel.
I think I largely agree with the symbolic gesture of a DeVos appointment rather than an purely administrative one. I think Michelle Ree would have been a better appointment -- she seems to have more experience, especially dealing with D.C. schools, which must implicate the federal side of things.  

 
Huh.  I see Devos as one of his worst appointments.  Granted, I'm not sure I can name one of his appointments that I liked, but Devos has to be near the bottom of a bad barrel.
I think you could argue against Devos from an ethics and expertise standpoint, but let's face it vouchers and local control if curricula are straight line conservative policies.

 
Idealistically, from a federalist standpoint, maybe it makes sense, if the premise is that the states will pick up the ball and handle affairs that the people want or need handled. I live in an impossibly corrupt state but also an apathetic one. Ideally I'd say let the state of LA handle health care, but we have dismantled what was a pretty good state health system. I would say, hey let the state of LA handle environmental quality and defense of wetlands. But our DEQ and local and state officials right up to the governor (well Jindal anyway) were literally a phone call away for landfill operators and oil companies with no love or allegiance to ourselves, our coast, bayous or or our safety and prime industry (seafood). The Jeffersonian in me says local decisions are the best decisions, but I have a serious problem with our local officials having a commitment to the republican [small r] side of things where they are supposed to represent the people's interests.
I can appreciate this perspective, but on the other hand, is the federal government really the best solution to these issues in principle?  Perhaps in practice at times, but I don't know that there is anything inherently better about the federal government policing this.  Unless you are suggesting that the federal government is in practice an available means of checks and balances.  Which would still make me wonder what the necessary reason for those checks and balances is, if we imagine states' rights to be fundamentally best.  I suppose in the long run, we say that some national agendas (foreign policy, interstate commerce, etc.) will still be useful for the states, so having a federal government is a necessary evil, thus why not use it for something else as well?

edit: not meaning to take any assumptions out of your post or challenge it, just got that line of thought going in my head for some reason.

 
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How do you feel about it, or is this ironic? I know you're often in the terrorist threads, voicing skepticism about our current open-borders policy, but how do you feel about it?  
Honestly I have a much bigger problem with Islam than I do the Mexican border. But it seems like people want to talk about straw men "immigrants", not "illegal immigrants", and about "Muslim bans" rather than what Trump was attempting. But yeah, in general, it's not like we've just got to have waves of people from Somalia, Syria, Sudan, Yemen, etc.

 
I think you could argue against Devos from an ethics and expertise standpoint, but let's face it vouchers and local control if curricula are straight line conservative policies.
Her charter school vs local control stances are somewhat contradictory though. The charter schools in Michigan were basically unregulated for profit businesses. That's removing power from locals and turning it over to private business.

 
Ilov80s said:
Her charter school vs local control stances are somewhat contradictory though. The charter schools in Michigan were basically unregulated for profit businesses. That's removing power from locals and turning it over to private business.
80s just so you know you have me persuaded on Devos. - However philosophically I'm not sure charters are by themselves conservative or liberal, but I think the conservative approach is a corporate/LLC running a school would be ok, while the liberal approach would insist on civic or or more board oriented control. 

But in local matters it's always funny to me how people who are conservative nationally can be liberal on local matters and vice versa.

 
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80s just so you know you have me persuaded on Devos. - However philophically I'm not sure charters are by themselves conservative or liberal, but I think the conservative approach is a corporate/LLC running a school would be ok, while the liberal approach would insist on civic or or more board oriented control. 

But in local matters it's always funny to me how people who are conservative nationally can be liberal on local matters and vice versa.
I agree on this. I don't think most educational issues really are conservative/liberal issues. IMO, a true Republican conservative approach and a true liberal Democratic approach to education would be empowering the people, not private businesses. Somewhere a long the way both parties had their fundamental beliefs shifted more and more in favor of big business and against the average citizen. The weird part is how many average people vehemently support these policies. Even sermingky populist movement that helped elect Trump seems to be favoring pro-big business and anti labor despite.

I really can't make heads or tails of politics these days. 

 
I think the last part is true, but his personal insult to another board member is exactly what I'm getting at. People feel the need to get very personal about this. 

Expect a personal response in return. I'll start doing just that even though I don't support Trump.  
And the stupid part is I never supported Trump and yet since I am not 100 percent in lock-step with the lynch Trump crowd, I am cast as a Trump-lover.  

 
80s just so you know you have me persuaded on Devos. - However philosophically I'm not sure charters are by themselves conservative or liberal, but I think the conservative approach is a corporate/LLC running a school would be ok, while the liberal approach would insist on civic or or more board oriented control. 

But in local matters it's always funny to me how people who are conservative nationally can be liberal on local matters and vice versa.
It's no secret that Trump is into nepotism.  I sincerely believe that DeVos was hired as a nod to her brother, Erik Price, whom has been behind the scenes for his administration.  I doubt she would have been chosen if not for that relationship.

 
I think the last part is true, but his personal insult to another board member is exactly what I'm getting at. People feel the need to get very personal about this. 

Expect a personal response in return. I'll start doing just that even though I don't support Trump.  
Pretty gross plan, rockaction.

 
And the stupid part is I never supported Trump and yet since I am not 100 percent in lock-step with the lynch Trump crowd, I am cast as a Trump-lover.  
I've never been attacked bu I've made comments that received strong negative reactions from both sides (people assumed I was a R or a D). I definitely get a sense that there exists little room here for moderates or nuance. 

Despite me saying all that, I've run out of ways to try and justify Trump as POTUS. I want him out ASAP. All the negative things we have known about Trump for decades have reared their ugly heads in the early months of the administration. I don't the media is being fair to him but at the sane time it was their attention that got him in the race and Donald is the last person on earth that has right to complain about treating people fairly. I really hope from all of this we get a strong Republican leader that stands up to Trump and forges a new direction for the country. 

 
It's no secret that Trump is into nepotism.  I sincerely believe that DeVos was hired as a nod to her brother, Erik Price, whom has been behind the scenes for his administration.  I doubt she would have been chosen if not for that relationship.
And again (aside from education philosophy, discussed above) is there anything conservative or Republican about that, especially after years of railing about the Clintons? No. 

 
I may have missed it, but those who are Republican leaning voters, what policies does Trump support that you disagree with?

 
I don't support Trump for many reasons: 

1) I don't support his rhetoric and tone

2) I don't support his ban on all Muslim immigration

3) I don't support building a wall

4) I don't support the alt-right and their blatant racism

5) I don't support his stance on trade

6) I don't support how he's going about "saving jobs"

7) I don't support nor trust his stance on reproductive services

8) I don't trust him -- he was a Reform Party member not too long ago

9) He is not a conservative in any sense of the word

10) I think he'll increase both the deficit and the debt

11) I don't support his stance on the Middle East

12) I don't support his stance on NATO

13) I do not support tax cuts right now until offsets are made

14) I do not think he is competent

15) I do not trust who he has put in an advisory position

16) There are several things I support, but not nearly enough to replace a traditional Republican candidate and elected office holder

17) I think his choice for VP was uninspired and downright dangerous also

18) I don't support his most vehement supporters

Need I go on...those all seem pretty fundamental
I don't know your political leanings, but were you a Republican voter prior to Trump?

 
It is kind of hard to miss.  He posted a list of 18 items which appear at the top of page 2.
I was asking in general. I believe most Republican voters are happy with Trump on policy. Is that accurate? If not, what policies do you disagree with the President on?

 
What policy?  Has he signed anything outside of Executive Orders yet?  
He hasn't gotten anything of substance through Congress yet, but based on what he has publicly said, where do you stand on the topics of the day?

Healthcare, Tax Reform, Immigration, Foreign Policy (N.Korea, Iran), Trade Policy, Economic Issues....

 
He hasn't gotten anything of substance through Congress yet, but based on what he has publicly said, where do you stand on the topics of the day?

Healthcare, Tax Reform, Immigration, Foreign Policy (N.Korea, Iran), Trade Policy, Economic Issues....
Healthcare....Trump has no plan.  He wants to spend more, he wants to gut Medicare.  He is hoping someone comes up with a great plan to save his butt, but he has no clue what to do.

Tax Reform....high tax rates aren't our problem. 

Immigration....We need a policy which allows productive immigrants into this country in a controlled process.  Trump is not doing that.

Foreign Policy....Trump is a loose cannon and dangerous.  Although his toughness is a relief, but has no clue.

Trade Policy....I support free trade.  Not a fan.  

 
I don't know your political leanings, but were you a Republican voter prior to Trump?
Yes. I've voted Republican or Libertarian since 1996.  I voted for George W., George W., McCain, and Romney.  Every representative and senator I've voted for since 1996 has been Republican or Libertarian.  

At the state and local level, I almost always vote Republican, and if there's a palatable Libertarian option, Libertarian.  

 
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He hasn't gotten anything of substance through Congress yet, but based on what he has publicly said, where do you stand on the topics of the day?

Healthcare, Tax Reform, Immigration, Foreign Policy (N.Korea, Iran), Trade Policy, Economic Issues....
Healthcare...his proposal that looks as if it may be ev worse than ACA?

Tax cuts that benefit the highest incomes with a budget that adds to the deficit?

Trade policy?  Free trade is...or at least was...a conservative policy.

 
Trump serves greed and self-interest above everything else. Feel free to disagree, or accept it.
Whether I agree or disagree how is that in any way representative of some sort of anti-life stance on my part?

 
Talk to me when you've answered my challenge to explain how Hillary was responsible for Uranium One's purchase by Russians.  I've asked you several times to do so, but you're too much of a coward to even try.  


Her State Deoartment had to approve the sale and at a time when many investors in U1 were making donations to the Clinton Foundation and Bill Clinton, himself, got 500k for a speech to a bank with ties to Putin.

 
President Trump @POTUS·1h
The violent attacks in Portland on Friday are unacceptable. The victims were standing up to hate and intolerance. Our prayers are w/ them.
This is the time stamp on when Hillary tweeted on this:

1:09 PM - 27 May 2017
48 hours earlier.

Note: this is basically about what a Republican or conservative would do. Trump doesn't even mention the sacrifice of the veteran on memorial day.

 
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Hillary should have at least waited for the body to get cold before politicizing it.  And probably should have waited until after Memorial Day to point out whether or nor Trump addressed something on Memorial Day.  

 
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Honestly I have a much bigger problem with Islam than I do the Mexican border. But it seems like people want to talk about straw men "immigrants", not "illegal immigrants", and about "Muslim bans" rather than what Trump was attempting. But yeah, in general, it's not like we've just got to have waves of people from Somalia, Syria, Sudan, Yemen, etc.
Demographically, it is large scale immigration from Mexico that has been propping up the democrat party.  Second generation latinos (primarily from Mexico) are overwhelmingly voting democrat and they are are a large chunk of latino voters.  3rd generation latinos and beyond lean republican.  

The correct way to kill the democrat party is to shut off Mexican immigration.  That would wreck the demographics democrats need.  3rd generation + latinos would in 25 years become the dominant voting latino bloc and they would be voting republican.  

The democrats are in a position where they need 2nd generation latinos to keep growing or else they die.  That means they actually need to open the borders wider.  

For Trump and the republicans, there simply is no bigger issue than the wall.  If they actually build that wall, it drastically alters demographics down the road to the point where the democrats never win.  If he accomplishes only one thing in 8 years, it should be the wall if he wants enduring republican success.  If they don't build the wall and democrats are able to increase the immigration rate, then they could turn the tables on the GOP.

 

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