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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (2 Viewers)

Steelers4Life said:
they clearly need a change in direction whether that starts at the top or that starts with the hiring of someone to take full control of the offense.
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As we both know, Mike Tomlin is not going anywhere. I am okay with firing Matt Canada now but even if they did it will not change the personnel on the field or the playbook for 2023. The play calling might be different, and that could be a good thing, but it might also screw things up worse than they are as unlikely as that seems to some.

Barring some miraculous offensive turn-around in the second half of the season I do agree that Matt Canada should be gone in 2024 and a new offensive coordinator from outside the organization be brought in to make wholesale changes.
 
They cant sleepwalk thru 3 quarters vs the Jags this week. Maybe they got a taste of what fun it is to play a real style of offense and they start like that sunday. That 4th Q was actually fun to watch. But in pittsburgh, we will wallow in the first 3 Qs all week. Grrrrrrrr, they won on the west coast.
 
The 4th quarter was like someone else took over the team. Running inside. Play-action. Passes to different levels. A QB who wasn't scared. Who knew that was a winning formula with the players on the roster????
 
Yep, it’s bad. I thought Kenny looked sharp at the start of the game, hitting Diontae in stride the first play of the game, it should have been a YD but was dropped. Johnson had several drops.

The discrepancy of starting field position was huge but they had wasted opportunities when they couldn’t take advantage when the defense got them turnovers.

There were a few questionable calls that hurt, particularly the offensive offsides that took 3 points off the board at the end of the half.

They have a short week and it is unlikely they will get Minkah back and Pickett probably be out too, meaning the return of the Mitch Trubisky show. Aside from the TD pass he looked bad so I’m not too optimistic.
 
I’m not sure where this team goes from here. The offense is a major issue and the defense is also a problem (when they’re not getting sacks and turnovers). The inability to get 400 yards of offense under Canada’s entire tenure is mind boggling. Unfortunately we didn’t get an opportunity to see the Pickett 4th quarter magic yesterday. Minkah and Pickett injuries are killers. The division is also apparently getting better. How does this team make the playoffs in their current state?
 
Godsbrother said:
Yep, it’s bad. I thought Kenny looked sharp at the start of the game, hitting Diontae in stride the first play of the game, it should have been a YD but was dropped. Johnson had several drops.

The discrepancy of starting field position was huge but they had wasted opportunities when they couldn’t take advantage when the defense got them turnovers.

There were a few questionable calls that hurt, particularly the offensive offsides that took 3 points off the board at the end of the half.

They have a short week and it is unlikely they will get Minkah back and Pickett probably be out too, meaning the return of the Mitch Trubisky show. Aside from the TD pass he looked bad so I’m not too optimistic.
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They should start Rudolph. Pickett was very up and down. DJ doesn't slip, and he catches a TD if Kenny didn't throw behind him in the endzone.
 
fred_1_15301 said:
I’m not sure where this team goes from here. The offense is a major issue and the defense is also a problem (when they’re not getting sacks and turnovers). The inability to get 400 yards of offense under Canada’s entire tenure is mind boggling. Unfortunately we didn’t get an opportunity to see the Pickett 4th quarter magic yesterday. Minkah and Pickett injuries are killers. The division is also apparently getting better. How does this team make the playoffs in their current state?
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Yep, the defense hasn't really been very good but the turnovers and sacks have hidden it. Lots of yards and sustained drives against them.

This isn't a playoff team. It's not really a 4-3 team either despite what their record says. I don't think it's especially close to one, either, even in a league driven by parity right now. They have enough winnable games left that they should still finish around .500, but this isn't moving in the right direction.
 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Godsbrother said:
Yep, it’s bad. I thought Kenny looked sharp at the start of the game, hitting Diontae in stride the first play of the game, it should have been a YD but was dropped. Johnson had several drops.

The discrepancy of starting field position was huge but they had wasted opportunities when they couldn’t take advantage when the defense got them turnovers.

There were a few questionable calls that hurt, particularly the offensive offsides that took 3 points off the board at the end of the half.

They have a short week and it is unlikely they will get Minkah back and Pickett probably be out too, meaning the return of the Mitch Trubisky show. Aside from the TD pass he looked bad so I’m not too optimistic.
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They should start Rudolph. Pickett was very up and down. DJ doesn't slip, and he catches a TD if Kenny didn't throw behind him in the endzone.
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That read was sooo late. I was shouting, “Throw it! Throw it! THROW IT!!!” He threw on the third shout and it was almost too late by then even if the receiver hadn’t slipped. The window went from barn door sized to bathroom window sized.

I wonder if this offense wouldn’t look OK with an able QB. Trubisky isn’t better than Kenny.
 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Pickett was very up and down. DJ doesn't slip, and he catches a TD if Kenny didn't throw behind him in the endzone.
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Agreed, that was an easy TD. I am not the biggest Canada fan but being an OC is a lot tougher when your QBs misses an open receiver in the end zone and your WR drops a pass that would have been a TD. Execute on either one of those plays and the Steelers could easily have won.
 
Cookiemonster said:
That read was sooo late. I was shouting, “Throw it! Throw it! THROW IT!!!” He threw on the third shout and it was almost too late by then even if the receiver hadn’t slipped. The window went from barn door sized to bathroom window sized.

I wonder if this offense wouldn’t look OK with an able QB. Trubisky isn’t better than Kenny.
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The pass was way behind otherwise he wouldn't have slipped. Trubisky is not very good so not expecting much on Thursday night
 
Blick said:
karl.Racki said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Pickett GTD for Thursday. Minkah out.
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Just rest Pickett for christ sakes.. we are losing anyways.
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I truly wonder if he could have gutted it out yesterday, but the team was looking for a spark from Trubiski.
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I Wonder if him playing at 75% would be as bad as him playing at 100% or him playing hurt being as bad a Trublisky?

Still shocked they don't give "Mason has looked the best in practice" a shot. I mean what would it hurt at this point?
 
Steeler said:
Steelers4Life said:
Its now been 54 games.
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I saw something on twitter earlier today that NE is in second place in this dubious category with TWELVE consecutive games... TWELVE.
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While I understand it is indicative of a crappy offense, there isn’t anything special about 400 yards offense.

If by some miracle they got 400 yards offense this week does it really matter?

This team has been set up for the defense to keep the score low and the offense to squeeze out just enough points to win.

The problem with this approach is the offense line isn’t good, the play calling has been predictable, and the QB has either been immobile (Ben in his final 2 years) or just not good (Kenny/Mitch).

Couple that with complete ineptitude in the 1st half so they are always playing from behind.

There are no quick fixes for this season but they should at least be trying opening up the offense early, especially in the middle of the field, and go no huddle once in a while. Don’t wait until your down a couple of scores. I think they tried that on the first drive last weeks but after a couple of dropped passes, it seemed they reverted to their old ways.

That’s my 2 cents anyway.
 
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Bill Cowher retired after coaching the 2006 season after coming off the 2005 Super Bowl win. Mike Tomlin had 1 year of experience as the Defensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings in 2016. Tomlin was under consideration for the Head Coaching job along with Ken Whisenhunt(OC), Russ Grim(OLC) and others. Ken and Russ you could argue had more coaching experience and being in house it appeared one of the 2 would get the job but were passed over by the ownership. The Steelers hire Mike Tomlin as their head coach in 2007. Mike inherited a franchise QB and chosen by ownership that initiated the Rooney rule. Ken and Russ both end up in Arizona had some success and lost a super bowl. Ken is now the special assistant to the head coach of Alabama. Russ retired in 2017 after coaching the Titans OL.

Mike Tomlin’s second year 2008 he wins the Super Bowl. My one friend call’s Mike Tomlin’s first Super Bowl win his Switzer Bowl. Referring to Barry Switzer winning the Super Bowl with basically Jimmy Johnson’s players. Granted under Mike’s watch the 2007 draft was successful with Woodley and Timmons. But then 2008 is considered one of their worst although Mendenhall was drafted.

Current offensive coordinator will go down as one of the worst offensive coordinators in Pittsburgh Steeler history. I don’t want to even mention his name he is that horrendous. The current OC had no prior experience at the NFL level and never should have been promoted. You could argue Joe Walton was just as bad, but Joe had a track record and was near the end of his career. Opposing players, press, ex-NFL players are literally mocking the Steeler’s on social media and to the press about the ability to easily read the Steeler’s offensive play calling. If you’re a Bengals, Browns or Ravens fan you’re loving the Steeler’s OC because he makes your defense look stellar and gives you every chance to win.

Current Head Coach: If you’re going to be considered one of the greatest head coaches of all time. You better have a coaching tree. I really can’t speak to Tomlin’s coaching tree. Bill Parcels coaching tree comes to mind. Parcells would leave a team to build up a new one. Parcells has won 2 super bowls. Mike Tomlin has only won 1. Who would you rather have as the HC. Bill Parcells would put a foot in the Prima Donna player’s booty. Chase Claypool would have been so scared of being called out that he might not have been another lazy unmotivated Prima Donna. Steelers should have kept Brian Flores.

Players the big 3. Big Ben, Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown rarely will you have a top 5 QB, RB and WR and if you do normally you win a Super Bowl. Especially with good defenses. I see the same undisciplined garbage at time coming from Dionte Johnson this guy when he does catch the ball acts like he just scored the game winning touchdown and at times jaws with the opposing team. Dionte is so not worth the money. George Pickens gotta love the talent but so worried he is going down the same selfish ego bloated approach and/or unhappy because he is not getting the ball enough.

Steelers trade/or don’t resign Kevin Dotson, Ahkello Witherspoon, and Kendrick Green. The first 2 are grading out higher than current Steeler starters. Granted health is playing a part of that. Kendrick Green was getting some praise by Texans coaching staff for his work ethic, and it sounded like his skill set was more suited for the Texans blocking and passing schemes. After becoming the frustration for the Steelers offensive line woes his first year.

Pittsburgh Steelers haven’t won a playoff game since 2016 and haven’t won a Super Bowl since 2008. But Tomin keeps mentioning in presser’s the standard. Sorry Mike Steeler’s way is to win playoff games and compete and win the Super Bowl.

Personally, the issue is with ownership if they are ok with the current standard then keep Mike Tomlin. I don’t see the OC keeping his job after this season. Also, the Steeler’s franchise QB is not currently on the roster.
 
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I don't think anyone here suggested that Mike Tomlin is one of the greatest coaches of all time.

As far as coaching tree I don't think that it means all that much. Most head coaches come from coordinators and Tomlin had defensive coordinators **** LeBeau and Keith Butler. LeBeau had already had a head coaching gig prior and Butler remained as DC until he retired from football.

You have a better case with Tomlin's offensive coordinators: Bruce Arians, Todd Haley, Randy Fichtner and Matt Canada. Arians went on to become HC of Tampa Bay and Haley had already had an attempt as a head coach prior to joining the Steelers. I'll go out on a limb and say that Fichtner and Canada don't seem to be likely hot candidates for a head coaching position.

Also I don't want to make this a Tomlin vs Cowher thing but Cowher also had the reputation of being a great coach that couldn't win the big game. After Cowher won the Super Bowl he could only manage an 8-8 record with the team Tomlin "inherited" and then he retired.

My opinion on Tomlin is that he is a good coach but needs to bring in a new offensive coordinator from outside the organization and give him the keys to the offense. If he can't do that then it is time for him to move on.


One more thing though: please don't tell me you aren't lamenting the loss of Kevin Dotson, Akhello Witherspoon, and Kendrick Green.
 
Godsbrother said:
One more thing though: please don't tell me you aren't lamenting the loss of Kevin Dotson, Akhello Witherspoon, and Kendrick Green.
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I'm not lamenting the loss of Dotson, Witherspoon or Green. I wonder how much of that is due to health, coaching and schematics. Could be due to motivation and one foot out of the league as well.
 
Godsbrother said:
Also I don't want to make this a Tomlin vs Cowher thing but Cowher also had the reputation of being a great coach that couldn't win the big game. After Cowher won the Super Bowl he could only manage an 8-8 record with the team Tomlin "inherited" and then he retired.
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Cmon, you're better than this lol. That 8-8 team was only 8-8 because of Ben's motorcycle accident. The team had won the Super Bowl the year before and had been in the AFCC 2 of the 4 years before that. Tomlin inherited a loaded, Super Bowl contending roster and a 1st ballot HOF QB in his 4th year. And the success he had with that group is the only reason he's still employed or viewed how he is externally today.

The knock on Cowher is that he was TOO committed to winning only with a great running game and defense. Too many years of neglecting the QB position and riding Kordell, Maddox, Tomczak etc. As soon as he had Ben, he lost to Brady in the AFCC as a rookie and won the Super Bowl in year two. As a coach, he was awesome... aside from the QB stuff which is why he only won one SB.
 
The knock on Cowher was that he couldn't win the big game (see record in those AFC championship games). People were saying how he was just like his mentor, Marty Schottenheimer.
 
Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was. Bill took over a team that had 1 playoff win in the last 7 seasons with many being a sub .500 finish, while Tomlin inherited a SB winning one from top to bottom, including assistants. Always thought this comparison was weird, but here we are with some fans.
 
crushedspirit said:
Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was. Bill took over a team that had 1 playoff win in the last 7 seasons with many being a sub .500 finish, while Tomlin inherited a SB winning one from top to bottom, including assistants. Always thought this comparison was weird, but here we are with some fans.
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I wasn't making the case of one being better than the other, I was pointing out that many of the same comments made about Tomlin were said about Cowher (good motivator but couldn't win the big game, bad game clock manager, etc.). I am not sure if you were in Pittsburgh in the late 90s and up until he won the Super Bowl but it is a fact.
 
Godsbrother said:
The knock on Cowher was that he couldn't win the big game (see record in those AFC championship games). People were saying how he was just like his mentor, Marty Schottenheimer.
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I know what people said. It was ridiculous then too. Probably should've won the '94 AFCC game vs San Diego, but his other 3 AFCC losses were with QB matchups of Kordell/Elway, Kordell/Brady, and Roethlisberger as a rookie/Brady. Without a QB, his teams fell short and they didn't address it until 2004.

But it's almost insulting to compare Tomlin to Cowher. Cowher took over a team from Noll that had barely been above .500 over the previous decade and turned them into a perennial contender. He WON at least 1 playoff game in 8 of his 15 seasons and 4 of his final 6, and 2 of the ones he didn't were his first 2 years. His last year would've been far better than 8-8 if Ben hadn't wrecked his bike. He never went more than 3 years without winning a playoff game. And he did that DESPITE not having anything resembling a top QB.

Tomlin took over a Super Bowl contender, rode it for a few years, and hasn't done anything since with 3 playoff wins in the past 13 years, all against backup QBs. If they win 8 or 9 games this year, it'll be the 5th time in the past 6 years.

It pisses me off that he's so well respected nationally and it pisses me off even more that ownership will never remove him.
 
I know that signing him long term would be impossible, but kinda sad we didn't trade for Chase Young. Pairing him with Heyward, Benton, Watt, and Highsmith would be preposterous.
 
steelers1080 said:
I know that signing him long term would be impossible, but kinda sad we didn't trade for Chase Young. Pairing him with Heyward, Benton, Watt, and Highsmith would be preposterous.
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Yes but the Niners gave up a 3rd round pick for him. Does he really propel this team to Super Bowl contender? If the answer is no, I would rather keep the pick for a rental. :shrug: The Niners are in a better position to win now when their guys start coming back.
 
I normally don't wish that we were anything like the Raiders, but them firing McDaniels already during the season means we 1000% could have fired Canada.

He wasn't even the biggest problem with the team last week (Trubisky, drops, execution, etc.), but a better OC makes a lot of things easier for the offense and puts them in a better position to succeed. It feels like everyone in the world knows he's a lame duck OC, so what's the point in keeping him?
 
steelers1080 said:
I normally don't wish that we were anything like the Raiders, but them firing McDaniels already during the season means we 1000% could have fired Canada.

He wasn't even the biggest problem with the team last week (Trubisky, drops, execution, etc.), but a better OC makes a lot of things easier for the offense and puts them in a better position to succeed. It feels like everyone in the world knows he's a lame duck OC, so what's the point in keeping him?
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You beat me to it. But I’ll add the Steelers should offer the OC role to Josh McDaniels like now. They won’t, but they should.
 
Pickett says he's going to start, Heyward was a full participant in practice and Minkah out.

Weather at game time will be dry and low 40's/upper 30's with very little wind.
 
fred_1_15301 said:
Out of the 3 QBs, I want Pickett to continue to get starts. The more experience, the better.
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And the more chances to see what he has to offer. I think the chances that we move on next year are close to 0%. My assumption is we let Canada walk, get a new OC, and see how Pickett does with them for at least 1 year.
 
steelers1080 said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Out of the 3 QBs, I want Pickett to continue to get starts. The more experience, the better.
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And the more chances to see what he has to offer. I think the chances that we move on next year are close to 0%. My assumption is we let Canada walk, get a new OC, and see how Pickett does with them for at least 1 year.
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you are probably correct.

Reasoning it may not be 0%... been thinking about a new OC coming in like McDaniels. does it make sense to bring in an OC and hamstring them by forcing pickett and najee as starters? or do we give the new OC a shot to make personnel calls/opportunity to draft another QB or bring in a vet. new OC will want more control. Whomever we bring in, has to be a good fit with Omar and Coach T
 
fred_1_15301 said:
steelers1080 said:
I know that signing him long term would be impossible, but kinda sad we didn't trade for Chase Young. Pairing him with Heyward, Benton, Watt, and Highsmith would be preposterous.
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Yes but the Niners gave up a 3rd round pick for him. Does he really propel this team to Super Bowl contender? If the answer is no, I would rather keep the pick for a rental. :shrug: The Niners are in a better position to win now when their guys start coming back.
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agreed. would not have made sense for the Steelers. Niners though, great move. if SF doesn't sign him, the 3rd round compensatory pick they'll get the following year means they kind of stole him.
 
Grid71 said:
steelers1080 said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Out of the 3 QBs, I want Pickett to continue to get starts. The more experience, the better.
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And the more chances to see what he has to offer. I think the chances that we move on next year are close to 0%. My assumption is we let Canada walk, get a new OC, and see how Pickett does with them for at least 1 year.
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you are probably correct.

Reasoning it may not be 0%... been thinking about a new OC coming in like McDaniels. does it make sense to bring in an OC and hamstring them by forcing pickett and najee as starters? or do we give the new OC a shot to make personnel calls/opportunity to draft another QB or bring in a vet. new OC will want more control. Whomever we bring in, has to be a good fit with Omar and Coach T
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I don't think a new OC would have any authority to change up personnel, for better or worse.
 
steelers1080 said:
Grid71 said:
steelers1080 said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Out of the 3 QBs, I want Pickett to continue to get starts. The more experience, the better.
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And the more chances to see what he has to offer. I think the chances that we move on next year are close to 0%. My assumption is we let Canada walk, get a new OC, and see how Pickett does with them for at least 1 year.
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you are probably correct.

Reasoning it may not be 0%... been thinking about a new OC coming in like McDaniels. does it make sense to bring in an OC and hamstring them by forcing pickett and najee as starters? or do we give the new OC a shot to make personnel calls/opportunity to draft another QB or bring in a vet. new OC will want more control. Whomever we bring in, has to be a good fit with Omar and Coach T
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I don't think a new OC would have any authority to change up personnel, for better or worse.
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Not total authority, no, but certainly would have input during the offseason and draft.

I know that goes against the narrative of local sports radio talking heads, particularly Mark Madden, but it seems that negativity sells more soap than objectivity.
 
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