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RB Antonio Gibson, NE (2 Viewers)

I trust Eric Bienemy to utilize his offensive weapons to the best of his abilities. It's something that won't click immediately, but as Howell/Dotson/McLaurin/Robinson/Gibson play more and more games they'll get better. Gibson is a better talent than Hardman and Bienemy will have fun scheming him open, the only (sorta) issue is if Curtis Samuel somehow eats into Gibson's work?

Yeah I want all the Gibson as value at the Flex spot.
 
Antonio Gibson rushed three times for nine yards in the Commanders’ Week 1 win over the Cardinals, adding a 10-yard catch and also losing a fumble.

It was not the day Gibson managers needed. In addition to the [soft] red zone giveaway, he got out-touched 20-4 by Brian Robinson. He ceded a ton of work to rookie grinder Chris Rodriguez. Perhaps that was game-plan specific in a grind-it-out affair the Commanders just wanted to salt away, but Gibson did nothing to endear himself to new OC Eric Bieniemy. Things change quickly around here, but it would seem Gibson can’t be trusted as a Week 2 FLEX against the Broncos.
- Rotoworld
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Yeah, soft & giveaway & red zone definitely sounds bad. I think the notion that he disappeared from the offense afterwards may have been by design is wishful thinking. Obviously, it's not only that he coughed it up, but how, where & that the game was still very much in the balance. Doing this was a big part of why he lost lead role in the 1st place. Seems premature to suggest the experiment is over but how do they go back to this guy?
 
TripItUp said:
He's still their best pass catching back...
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Suggesting that because there isn't anybody else to fill that role, at some point they have to go back to him. Could be, I have no idea. But what we do know is what often happens after a player has just made a mistake, but the coaching staff has a lot of confidence in him. As soon as the offense is back out there, they go right back to him. I did find the play at azcardinals.com, it's the replay you gotta have to really see what happened. The depiction is that OLB Victor Dimukeje punches the ball loose, but I don't think that's the full picture.

It's a run up inside, nets about 3 or 4 yds. As Gibson is going to the ground & if able, freeze the replay at the precise moment the punch makes contact. It appears that the brunt of this punch grazes the side of Gibson's face mask & jaw. You'll note that his head snaps away from the force. Right after that the ball comes out. The flash of the replay, it looks the part. The continuation of the punch does appear to reach the ball and/or Gibson's hand. But the angle, any downward force of a followthrough onto the ball, if I'm his coaches looking at this right now, not convincing, not at all.

Week one went poorly for me & I need a lot of help. I have no shares of this player, but if you have a strong waiver claim position & Rashid Shaheen is on your wire right now, wowser! Could be a total mirage but he's picked up right where he left off.
 
markrc99 said:
Yeah, soft & giveaway & red zone definitely sounds bad. I think the notion that he disappeared from the offense afterwards may have been by design is wishful thinking. Obviously, it's not only that he coughed it up, but how, where & that the game was still very much in the balance. Doing this was a big part of why he lost lead role in the 1st place. Seems premature to suggest the experiment is over but how do they go back to this guy?
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That’s my fear.

And it’s not like he was lighting it up before the fumble.
:doh:
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
markrc99 said:
Yeah, soft & giveaway & red zone definitely sounds bad. I think the notion that he disappeared from the offense afterwards may have been by design is wishful thinking. Obviously, it's not only that he coughed it up, but how, where & that the game was still very much in the balance. Doing this was a big part of why he lost lead role in the 1st place. Seems premature to suggest the experiment is over but how do they go back to this guy?
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That’s my fear.

And it’s not like he was lighting it up before the fumble.
:doh:
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Seems very troubling for us Gibson owners. All the talent in the world won't help if you're putting the ball on the ground. We're not talking about a Tank Bigsby rookie-type situation, where he fumbled at the goal line in preseason and then yesterday gave up on a play that cost a fumble return TD, yet still was given another chance. By contrast, Gibson is a 4-year vet now that clearly fell out of favor last season, but seemed to have a chance to redeem himself with a new OC in Bienemy who seems to have big plans for him. Not exactly a good start - he got one more touch after that fumble and even Chris Rodriguez got more touches after the fumble.
 
wow. did that suck.

His usage was 100% about the fumble. GD it. One thing I will say (with puke in my mouth) is that it was actually a heckuva play by the defender. Gibson really seemed to have a decent grip on it and dude Peanut Punched it really really hard. I don't think there are too many RBs that could have held onto it.

But ****!!!!

So we can assume they're giving him more touches this week, right? Right? That was all about the fumble doghouse right? Ugh I need to hear Rivera say something about him this week that suggests he's out of the doghouse or that the thing even exists. Zero chance that was by design.
 
I think it was already a Robinson game against a weak opponent, but the fumble exaggerated it. I am giving it another couple weeks before full on panic.
 
barackdhouse said:
wow. did that suck.

His usage was 100% about the fumble. GD it. One thing I will say (with puke in my mouth) is that it was actually a heckuva play by the defender. Gibson really seemed to have a decent grip on it and dude Peanut Punched it really really hard. I don't think there are too many RBs that could have held onto it.

But ****!!!!

So we can assume they're giving him more touches this week, right? Right? That was all about the fumble doghouse right? Ugh I need to hear Rivera say something about him this week that suggests he's out of the doghouse or that the thing even exists. Zero chance that was by design.
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Yes - please no doghouse.
 
I'm confused as to why he is still on the team. Rivera has hated him for years.
RB depth is not hard to find in the NFL.

For fantasy, going to hold through this week because it's a fairly deep league.

But I'm pretty sure I'll look back and wish I had dropped him now just to cause somebody else to pick him up on name alone.
 
I see all this chatter year after year that he's our best pass catching back. He's 6'2", 220 lbs. His numbers are decent as one, but he's hardly a scat back. He fumbles in traffic so isn't a reliable RB. He really has a problem in that he's too small for TE, too thick for WR, and not good enough for RB. Some smart coach could figure that out and find a way to use him. I think Ron's had enough of him and EB isn't gonna put up with mistakes from a guy that's been in the league 3+ years. Fact is EB's offense is about speed. Not sure Gibson has enough of it for a 3rd down RB.
 
Very low hopes but I cut him only to resign him as my league mates didn’t even put a claim. Considering their rb depth chart it’s basically a “hope and pray” situation.
 
Didnt expect to have him on my team but he dropped to the 12th round in my nonppr league so I took him. Cut him this week for Kyren. No one else has claimed him. Would rather have the “what if” of Kyren on my team than getting what I already know with Gibson.
 
SonnyD said:
Have a feeling the discussion in here will soon turn into “I can’t believe I cut him after 1 week. Congrats if you held or picked him up.” Holding.
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Holding too. But mostly because I don't see any better options right now. I would have cut him for a Kyren or Puka type if they were available.

For a lot of situations, holding when possible seems prudent after a Week 1 where a lot of offenses seem unsettled and trying to find their way.
 
SonnyD said:
Have a feeling the discussion in here will soon turn into “I can’t believe I cut him after 1 week. Congrats if you held or picked him up.” Holding.
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Yup. Dropped in one of my leagues and he clears tonight. Thinking about taking a flyer but would have to drop somebody like McKinnon.
 
He was supposed to be the 3rd down / 4 minute drill back. I have to believe that the fumble was the explanation here. And yes I would be *hoping* that is the case. Not a great start to the season. I am going to need to hear something from the coaches specifically calling out the fumble and then I can believe he has a path to be *out* of the doghouse. If this is by design then **** me. Hard to believe.

But talk of dropping him is insanity to me. I'd still pay a 2nd or at least consider it. Too many people need RBs to drop him if it is simply a doghouse situation.
 
pollardsvision said:
SonnyD said:
Have a feeling the discussion in here will soon turn into “I can’t believe I cut him after 1 week. Congrats if you held or picked him up.” Holding.
Click to expand...
Holding too. But mostly because I don't see any better options right now. I would have cut him for a Kyren or Puka type if they were available.

For a lot of situations, holding when possible seems prudent after a Week 1 where a lot of offenses seem unsettled and trying to find their way.
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If Robinson goes down again (injury, shot, etc) Gibson is going to be a valuable player to have rostered.

Any “next man up” is worthy of a roster spot.
 
barackdhouse said:
Gibson really seemed to have a decent grip on it and dude Peanut Punched it really really hard. I don't think there are too many RBs that could have held onto it.
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I can agree that best case for Gibson is that his coaches see it that way. Appreciate your peanut punch source, which is a much clearer version of the play from same camera angle. Below I've added the url. Again, it's important to start/stop this play as often as you can through the moment Gibson's head snaps from the force of the punch. It's beyond any doubt, the brunt of this "punch" initially lands to the jaw & neck perhaps. From that point it's about the continuation of the fist, the angle to the ball & whether there's a direct hit to the ball. Another factor perhaps is what goes on with ball after it's out.

As before, I see the fist continuing across the tip or a piece of the ball. Is it what forces the ball out (?), I would say yes. But is it a clean hit & with a lot of force, enough to exonerate Gibson of fault? Not to me, I see the fist grazing over the ball more so than a direct hit. It can certainly be subjective, but what does a ball do that's been hit "really, really hard"? I've included the original source I had cited because we see the ball hit the ground and bounce up, maybe 5 or 6 inches. It does initially carom off the defender's knee, but I would hope to see more action from the ball than what you'd see if it had simply been dropped.

The original depiction that this was a "soft giveaway" I still see as being accurate. I'll note that both sources suggest a great play by the defender. What if Rivera and/or EB credit the defender? If they intend to go back to him then at some point they will express confidence, whether they actually mean it or not. Gibson's own explanation was this: "I was super low to the ground and right before I got to the ground, he got it out" . Super low to the ground? Does that work for you, because it doesn't for me. Perhaps now they get away from running him up inside? He was more vocal this spring, that if he could go back he'd never agree with switching positions & that he wants more reps at WR.

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnpx9z6jl4Q...
...https://www.azcardinals.com/video/highlight-dimukeje-punches-the-ball-free...
 
markrc99 said:
barackdhouse said:
Gibson really seemed to have a decent grip on it and dude Peanut Punched it really really hard. I don't think there are too many RBs that could have held onto it.
Click to expand...
I can agree that best case for Gibson is that his coaches see it that way. Appreciate your peanut punch source, which is a much clearer version of the play from same camera angle. Below I've added the url. Again, it's important to start/stop this play as often as you can through the moment Gibson's head snaps from the force of the punch. It's beyond any doubt, the brunt of this "punch" initially lands to the jaw & neck perhaps. From that point it's about the continuation of the fist, the angle to the ball & whether there's a direct hit to the ball. Another factor perhaps is what goes on with ball after it's out.

As before, I see the fist continuing across the tip or a piece of the ball. Is it what forces the ball out (?), I would say yes. But is it a clean hit & with a lot of force, enough to exonerate Gibson of fault? Not to me, I see the fist grazing over the ball more so than a direct hit. It can certainly be subjective, but what does a ball do that's been hit "really, really hard"? I've included the original source I had cited because we see the ball hit the ground and bounce up, maybe 5 or 6 inches. It does initially carom off the defender's knee, but I would hope to see more action from the ball than what you'd see if it had simply been dropped.

The original depiction that this was a "soft giveaway" I still see as being accurate. I'll note that both sources suggest a great play by the defender. What if Rivera and/or EB credit the defender? If they intend to go back to him then at some point they will express confidence, whether they actually mean it or not. Gibson's own explanation was this: "I was super low to the ground and right before I got to the ground, he got it out" . Super low to the ground? Does that work for you, because it doesn't for me. Perhaps now they get away from running him up inside? He was more vocal this spring, that if he could go back he'd never agree with switching positions & that he wants more reps at WR.

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnpx9z6jl4Q...
...https://www.azcardinals.com/video/highlight-dimukeje-punches-the-ball-free...
Click to expand...
Not really sure what you're trying to say with most of this. It was a really good play by the defender. Both vids you attached show that clearly. Gibson is not absolved of liability. He could have had his other hand clasped over the first. When you have a reputation for being soft with the ball, defenders know this and target you. Until proven otherwise and he didn't in week 1. But, that punch was solid AF. Did it glance a little? Yes? But watch it in real time. Lands on the ball with plenty of force. And the ball pops out fast, not anything "like it had simply been dropped."
 
I dropped him for Spears in a 12 team deep bench league. He immediately got picked up. I had him last season and he pissed me off so we have history.
 
I would never drop him. Upside and talent is there. And in the past, he's seemed to respond to his "benching" when he fumbled. But I'm not starting him anywhere, I'll wait until I see the touches and production.
 
barackdhouse said:
Not really sure what you're trying to say with most of this. It was a really good play by the defender. Both vids you attached show that clearly. Gibson is not absolved of liability. He could have had his other hand clasped over the first. When you have a reputation for being soft with the ball, defenders know this and target you. Until proven otherwise and he didn't in week 1. But, that punch was solid AF. Did it glance a little? Yes? But watch it in real time. Lands on the ball with plenty of force. And the ball pops out fast, not anything "like it had simply been dropped."
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If I said something you didn't understand I'll be happy to rephrase. To me, the video you sourced proves that the defender threw a punch that didn't land squarely or flush to the ball, but created a fumble anyway. Owners looking for something from Gibson may consider him owning the mishap. I cited his response when he was asked, he emphasized that he was on his way to the ground when the defender knocked the ball out. What I didn't include was the latter part of the quote where he says he knows the adjustment he needs to make.

Gibson says he was almost to the ground, he wasn't, but what is it he's saying there? You're carrying the rock & you're on your way down. When the journey's over, what's instinctive for a ball-carrier is to secure possession. For someone else falling to the ground, it's to break one's fall. There's some other variable to consider? Do tell. What occurred on this play, correctable. Even better, the player & his coaches know as much. Initially I felt like how do they go back to this guy? For week 2, maybe it's not about whether his coaches roll belly up. Rather, they don't dismiss him & he's activated? Difficult player to gauge right now.
 
markrc99 said:
Gibson says he was almost to the ground, he wasn't
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Yes he was. You're watching it in slow mo making judgements on fractions of a second. He was hit and going down. That equals almost to the ground for a person remembering the moment in real time.

Also, the shot to the ball was certainly flush enough to not be questioned.
 
ffmail4me said:
I would never drop him. Upside and talent is there. And in the past, he's seemed to respond to his "benching" when he fumbled. But I'm not starting him anywhere, I'll wait until I see the touches and production.
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I’m in a 16 team league. There is not a chance I would let this guy go. If i did, he would be snapped up in our next waiver draft, and who the heck would i replace him with anyway lol!!!! Yeah, he’s been in Rivera’s doghouse off and on, but he’s got a bunch of talent. Also, we knew going into the Cardinals game that this would be a conservative game plan, leaning more heavily towards Robinson. I saw that fumble live as well….there’s not much of a chance anyone would have held on to the ball.
 
cockroach said:
markrc99 said:
Gibson says he was almost to the ground, he wasn't
Click to expand...

Yes he was. You're watching it in slow mo making judgements on fractions of a second. He was hit and going down. That equals almost to the ground for a person remembering the moment in real time. Also, the shot to the ball was certainly flush enough to not be questioned.
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"Super low to the ground", seems to me, would suggest close to being ruled down. Which of course, isn't even a remote consideration on this play. Yeah, let's just forget that part. He's asked and what was relevant according to him was that he was almost to the ground, Right? He was then quoted as saying he knows the adjustment he needs to make. Perhaps useful to owners, what is the relevance of him almost being down? The matter isn't about anything other than ball security. I take his response to mean that he lapsed in that regard, that he may have opted to break his fall.

The shot to the ball resulting in a fumble isn't what's questioned. Earlier in the discussion barack said there were only a few RBs who wouldn't have fumbled in that situation. There's a similar comment just above by MavsXT, that NO other RB would not have fumbled.... that's the conclusion I don't feel the evidence supports. The visual evidence shows, beyond any doubt that the brunt of this punch is absorbed by other parts of Gibson's body, not the ball. And that it occurs BEFORE the ball is knocked loose. Then of course, there's Gibson's own interpretation of what happened.

For owners, I'm starting Robinson as my RB2 after pulling Mattison. I'm hopeful, I've been looking for insight on both players, not finding anything.
 
Not that this means anything, but I recall watching Robinson’s TD catch on RedZone and then the replay, and I found be totally wrong about this, but I don’t think that pass was intended for him. After Howell scrambled, Robinson broke his route and ran in the direction of Howell. Which he should do. But it appeared to me the pass was intended for whoever was behind him. Robinson just got in front of him and caught the pass. Again, could be totally wrong as I saw the play only twice. Also, not trying to discredit the TD just pointing out I’m not sure the play was designed for him.
 
styleride85 said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
packdog said:
i love him. cat's outta the bag i think but not being reflected in drafts. still super cheap in PPRs. time to maybe bump up a round or two as prime draft time kicks in after this weekend
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Agreed.
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Ugh, you guys killed me with this hype train.

Droppable.
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Killed myself too. You think anyone’s happy about it?

At the end of the day we all make our own choices, friend. Blaming us for your poor decision is bad form.
 
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