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Running Backs Don't Matter 101 (1 Viewer)

Running is less efficient than passing? Fine.
Drafting RBs in the 1st is a wasted pick? Ok.

But a thousand articles will never convince me that spending 12 million on a Curtis Samuel or a Dawson Knox is a better investment for your team than a Derrick Henry.
I'm not sure that's the argument though. It's about the resource. It's about not paying AJ Brown because they WERE paying Derrick Henry. Who averaged 4.4 and 4.3 ypc the last two seasons. Wouldn't the Titans have been better off giving Brown that money and letting Henry walk? Big time WRs are making upwards of $20M a year now. Having AJ Brown + replacement level RB would have yielded better overall team/offense results than having Henry + replacement level WR.
Derrick Henry's $ alone would not have satisfied Brown. They would have had to forego 2x Derrick Henrys to pay Brown. Or D. Henry and $12M worth of help elsewhere. If that $12M is spent wisely, then it's D. Henry+ > Brown. If it's spent poorly, then it probably is Brown > D. Henry+.

Henry's $ would have satisified Corey Davis. And Tennessee decided to pay Henry that $12M instead of Davis. Easily the correct decision.

In a perfect world for the Titans, or any other team, they would never sign a bad contract on the remainder of their roster, and could pay both Henry and Brown.
 
Maybe you are on to something. The last 4 SB winners ranked 1, 5, 2, and 5 in passing yardage and 20, 25, 28, and 23 in rushing yardage.
Wasn't this well established by the mid '80s? That pretty much all Superbowl winners were good at passing, stopping the pass, or both. That their rushing ranks were mostly a function of playing with a lead?

But I think this thread ignores the value that a good running back brings in picking up the blitz. ;)
 
What about the value of selling jerseys, merchandise, and putting butts in the seats? Don't high-profile running backs do that better than offensive lineman? Are we fully taking into consideration the owner's desire to make money... not just win football games?
 
What about the value of selling jerseys, merchandise, and putting butts in the seats? Don't high-profile running backs do that better than offensive lineman? Are we fully taking into consideration the owner's desire to make money... not just win football games?
Those are two different conversations. Which one would you like to discuss?
 
What about the value of selling jerseys, merchandise, and putting butts in the seats? Don't high-profile running backs do that better than offensive lineman? Are we fully taking into consideration the owner's desire to make money... not just win football games?
Those are two different conversations. Which one would you like to discuss?
Yeah ... And if my team ownership is drafting based on selling jerseys, I'd want to clean house. And if you saw my house you'd know how hard it is to get me to do that.
 
Bijan has a great floor. Worst case scenario (barring an injury) he is probably David Montgomery. Best case scenario, he's probably Zeke without the off field concerns. Porter and Flowers certainly have a lower floor but if they do hit, it's going to provide more NFL value.
While all players can get hurt, history has shown that RBs don't last very long in the NFL. How many RBs are even signed as a clear cut starter or heavy workload back on their second contracts these days? I don't think teams can draft a running back expecting more than having them for 5 years. They will already have drafted his replacement by then.

As for selling tickets and merchandise, the Patriots have been cycling through running backs for many years now and didn't sell many BJGE, Lawrence Maroney, or Dion Lewis jerseys. But they didn't have an attendance problem. Having a winning team will capture the hearts of a fan base.
Awww, yes... just win 6 rings in today's NFL and you'll never need anything but the best QB in NFL history and a top 3 coach in NFL history. I think you have a better chance hitting on a RB and driving jersey sales than that happening in the near future.

Outside of the Boston fan base, most people don't remember many of those players minus Moss, Welker, Edelman, Gronk and the gay gangbanger Aaron Hernandez. It's a compelling story of team first atmosphere and anyone can get traded but possibly the largest outlier of an example you can provide. Yet, even they had RBs that couldn't cut the mustard...

The Patriots hit on a lot of players and were able to bring in players with questionable pasts to achieve those results... I don't think everyone is capable of that franchises accomplishments.
 
A lesser back would have gotten lesser yards, and less TDs. Whatever problems the Raiders have, Jacobs was not a part of. Whatever solutions they had, he was part of that.
For sure, better RBs perform better. However, the data shows that the difference is marginal. Jacobs had a great season though- didn't think he had it in him.
We don't get to assume every player is going to work out. it's a better than 50/50 shot that a late 1st round pick is NOT going to be a Pro Bowler, or get a 2nd contract. Right?
Exactly which is why looking backwards to cherry pick players is pointless. If there are 10 players with a general consensus mid 1st round grades then we have to assume they all have similar odds of being a hit. The difference is a hit at RB isn't valued as much. Jacobs being the perfect example. Jacobs is a 25 year old 2X Pro Bowler, coming off an All Pro season where you could argue he was a top 3 player at his position and all he got was a 1 year $10 million deal. If he played CB, LT, DT, Edge, WR he would be signing a 4 year deal making him among the highest paid non-QBs in the league.
At some point, you are weighing two prospects, and one is a top 3 player on your board, and the other is the 3rd CB, or 4th WR. At that point, I will take the top 3 player, and I don't care if he's playing OG or MLB--two other positions we have this discussion about.
This is true and where it gets difficult.
Well, sure... I'm willing to give a multi-year deal to a lower contact position. RBs and MLB are actually one of the higher impact position but a position you have to look to replace early. Banging between the tackles takes it's toll on these guys bodies and when it's over... it's over.

You can't compare multi-year deals because you're better to franchise and cut because the historical shelf life of a RB is age 27/28 and GMs are just hedging their bets. Yes, you might acquire a RB in FA and he could be highly effective for 1 year on your team but zero chance he rides out a series of multi-year contracts.

That being said, that isn't a placement of value on the position but longevity.
 
A lesser back would have gotten lesser yards, and less TDs. Whatever problems the Raiders have, Jacobs was not a part of. Whatever solutions they had, he was part of that.
For sure, better RBs perform better. However, the data shows that the difference is marginal. Jacobs had a great season though- didn't think he had it in him.
We don't get to assume every player is going to work out. it's a better than 50/50 shot that a late 1st round pick is NOT going to be a Pro Bowler, or get a 2nd contract. Right?
Exactly which is why looking backwards to cherry pick players is pointless. If there are 10 players with a general consensus mid 1st round grades then we have to assume they all have similar odds of being a hit. The difference is a hit at RB isn't valued as much. Jacobs being the perfect example. Jacobs is a 25 year old 2X Pro Bowler, coming off an All Pro season where you could argue he was a top 3 player at his position and all he got was a 1 year $10 million deal. If he played CB, LT, DT, Edge, WR he would be signing a 4 year deal making him among the highest paid non-QBs in the league.
At some point, you are weighing two prospects, and one is a top 3 player on your board, and the other is the 3rd CB, or 4th WR. At that point, I will take the top 3 player, and I don't care if he's playing OG or MLB--two other positions we have this discussion about.
This is true and where it gets difficult.
Well, sure... I'm willing to give a multi-year deal to a lower contact position. RBs and MLB are actually one of the higher impact position but a position you have to look to replace early. Banging between the tackles takes it's toll on these guys bodies and when it's over... it's over.

You can't compare multi-year deals because you're better to franchise and cut because the historical shelf life of a RB is age 27/28 and GMs are just hedging their bets. Yes, you might acquire a RB in FA and he could be highly effective for 1 year on your team but zero chance he rides out a series of multi-year contracts.

That being said, that isn't a placement of value on the position but longevity.
Longevity is value. Nobody Thursday night should be spending a pick thinking “I hope when he’s 26 we won’t resign him”. You want a player who becomes a 10 year foundation of the team. Of course that’s rare to find but drafting a position that pretty much as a rule can’t ever become that is capping the value of your pick.
 
It's true that RB is not a premium position, and IMO not a good use of a top 10 pick, but a lot of these studies are weaker than they sound.

NFL offense: Running for three yards is like going backwards.

Then in 2014 Dr. Ed Feng looked at 10 years of data that showed that rushing efficiency contributed to only ~4.4% of the variance in wins, vs the passing game contributing ~62%
One of the classic bad arguments in favor of running the ball is to point to the data about how teams usually win games where they run the ball a lot. This gets the causality backwards - in reality winning leads to running, running doesn't lead to winning. Teams with a lead run the ball a lot to grind out the clock. It's not that having lots of rushing attempts is incredibly helpful for winning a game, rather, having a big lead is incredibly helpful for winning a game, and teams with a big lead tend to run the ball a lot.

Ed Feng's study as the same problem (though a milder version) except in it makes running look less important than it is. As some of the comments to his post point out, grind-out-the-clock running plays are generally inefficient - they get low yards per carry. So having a late lead leads to a bunch of inefficient running plays. Rushing efficiency helps a team win, but also teams that win also have a bunch of low-efficiency runs late in the game, which (if you just look at the overall relationship between rushing efficiency & winning, like Ed Feng did) will partially cancel out or hide that benefit. Passing efficiency is a lot more helpful than rushing efficiency, but this study exaggerates the size of the difference.

https://thepowerrank.com/2014/01/10/which-nfl-teams-make-and-win-in-the-playoffs/
How passing and rushing affect winning in the NFL

Around 2017-2018 the data really cranked up on RBs themselves.

Josh Hermsmeyer looked at 10 years of rushing data, and found that two factors accounted for 96%(!) of rushing gains...

Those two factors? Field position, and # of defenders in the box...
Josh Hermsmeyer's study only looked at the average relationship between field position, # of defenders in the box, and yards per carry. He took every rushing play and categorized it into 30 bundles, based on field position (in 10-yard increments) and men in the box (6-, 7, or 8+). For example, one of those 30 bundles was: on average, how many YPC did teams get when they ran the ball from their own 30-39 yard-line against 7 men in the box? There wasn't any chance for other variables to matter, because he had thrown them all away by averaging those plays together. If a good offensive line, or certain play designs, or whatever else leads to higher YPC, it wouldn't show up here, because running plays behind good offensive lines are just averaged together with running plays behind bad offensive lines before he tries to fit his model.

So the 96% R^2 isn't that meaningful. When you look at how YPC varies based on field position and # of box defenders, almost all of that variation is explained by field position and # of box defenders. Why is it just 96% instead of 100%? It looks like he fit a relatively simple model using field position and box count, so he didn't have enough degrees of freedom to perfectly fit how YPC has related to field position and box count. But YPC mostly does relate to field position & box count in a pretty simple way, so his simple model captures most of that.


Are NFL running backs easily replaceable: the story of the 2018 NFL season


Add that to the study by Ben Baldwin showing that RBs drafted in the top-20 are no better than the league average on a yards per carry basis.

There's also a nugget in here about RBs having the highest 1st round bust rate of all offensive positions

Spending a top-20 pick on a RB is one of the worst decisions a team can make

In 2008, Malcolm Gladwell made a big deal out of a study which had found that quarterbacks' passing efficiency had little relationship to when they were drafted. Team are terrible at evaluating quarterbacks, Gladwell argued, and he speculated about what biases they might have that made them so terrible. The details of the study ("Catching a Draft" by Berri & Simmons) are kinda complicated, but you can see similar results with simpler methods, e.g. in 2022, first round quarterbacks threw for 7.10 yards per attempt while all other quarterbacks averaged 6.94 YPA.

So do quarterbacks not matter? (Or barely matter, at 0.16 yards per attempt of value?) Is drafting a quarterback like randomly picking names from a hat? Of course not. There's a huge selection effect here - most late round quarterbacks don't see the field. Tom Brady, Dak Prescott, Jalen Hurts, etc., really bring up the average of non-first-round quarterbacks. Todd Husak, Cardale Jones, Jacob Eason, etc. don't bring down the average of late round quarterbacks because they aren't playing. It's possible to get a Dak Prescott caliber quarterback in the fourth round (Dallas did), but it takes an awful lot of 4th round picks to find one. It takes fewer top 10 picks to find a quarterback that good. The distribution

And it's similar with RBs, where Aaron Jones & Chris Carson are bringing up the average for day 3 RBs while TJ Logan and Matthew Dayes aren't doing much to bring the average down. It's *possible* to find an Aaron Jones in round 5, but a round 1 or 2 pick is much more likely to bring in a RB of that caliber. There's a huge selection effect, where the YPC of later RB picks is mostly the YPC of the guys who were good enough to earn a bunch of carries.

I'd still hope to see first round RBs have *some* efficiency advantage over other RBs, if I was thinking of drafting one early, even if this selection effect means that we shouldn't expect that big a difference. Ben Baldwin's data shows no difference. But there are a few issues with the study that could make it misleading. One is that it's looking at a pretty small sample of first round RBs - just 17 of them - which is not necessarily a big enough sample to reliably detect differences (especially if we're looking for something like the 0.16 yards per attempt difference that we saw with QBs, rather than a huge difference). Another is that YPC is not that great a rushing efficiency stat, e.g. getting short yardage or goal-line carries tends to pull down a RB's yards per carry, and maybe the first rounders got more of those. Also, when Ben Baldwin compared 1st round RBs to league average rushing efficiency, I'm not sure if he was just looking at the average of other RBs or if that average included all players - QBs and WRs tend to get higher YPC (I clicked through to see if I could check this, but it looks like a PFR site redesign broke the links to the data he was using).

Since we know with these studies (and others) that running backs have very little influence on the success of a running game, and that running game success has little impact on winning games, the argument moves to the passing game.

Does a RB matter if he can be a pass catcher?

Well, in this study, Eric Eager (again) shows that passes thrown to RBs are the less efficient, less valuable, and less stable year over year, than targets to any other position.

Examining the value of receiver and coverage positions in today's NFL


Ben Baldwin confirmed that study in this one, where his data showed that targets to RBs have about 1/4 of the EPA per play of targets to TE, and even less vs targets to WR, and a lower success rate (positive EPA) than targets to TE or WRs.

Throwing to running backs: The latest NFL craze that doesn’t make any sense

Where the pass gets throw depends on what happens during a play. A lot of passes to RBs are checkdowns, which are an attempt to salvage some positive value after the main thing that the play was trying to didn't work. It's not the RB's fault that the main play design didn't work.

Similarly, down-the-field throws to a WR have a lot of value on average, but those throws only happen if the protection held up long enough for the QB to make the throw, and the receiver got open enough for the QB to decide to throw it; if the playcall leads to a sack or a scramble or a throwaway or a dumpoff to a RB or TE then it won't affect the average result of throws down the field to a WR even though it should definitely count towards the average result of playcalls that are designed to get the ball down the field to a WR.

So the average value of passes to RBs being low doesn't tell us much, one way or the other, about how much value there is in having a RB who is useful in the passing game.
 
I don't buy it, but I think there are very few generational type RBs. I'm talking Peterson, Tomlinson, Faulk. You get maybe 2-3 per decade, and it's not always who you think it's going to be. Even guys who looked the part like Bush and Richardson sometimes miss the target (although I think Bush did return a kick for a TD in a Super Bowl win, FWIW). In terms of RBs who really move the needle for an offense, it's probably a small number, but that applies to almost any position. It's hard to win a Super Bowl with a just "pretty good" QB like Stafford, Palmer, Ryan, etc. I'd rather have Peterson or Tomlinson on my team than a mid-level starting QB. Would I take them over Peyton and Brady? Of course not, but they won a lot of games in their careers.

There's a common argument in FF circles that the NFL has devalued the RB position, but I'd push back on that slightly. As someone who has been heavy into FF for 20+ years now, I just think the talent level at the position has dropped in the last 15-20 years. The 00s were something of a golden age for RB talent. Tomlinson and Peterson were hands down better than any RB in the league right now. Then you had a deep stable of guys like Steven Jackson, Deuce McAllister, Ricky Williams, Fred Taylor, Edgerrin James, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Jamal Lewis, and Corey Dillon whose peak versions would rival or exceed most of the best RBs in the league right now. Even in that talent-rich era, it was hard for a RB to go in the 1st. Now that there are fewer special talents available at the position, of course we're not going to see teams reach to draft them.

I still think when the right player comes along, it makes sense to pull the trigger. Saquon made sense that high, based on what he looked like at Penn State. You may only get 1-2 of those per decade though. Failing that, I don't think it's a bad idea to mine the middle-late rounds for plug-and-play options, as serviceable is easy to find at RB. Special is not though, and does have value over replacement for teams.
 
I think we should mainly be comparing running backs to linebackers, safeties, interior offensive linemen, maybe defensive tackles (excluding the elite pass rushers like Donald), maybe tight ends (excluding the elite receivers like Kelce).

Quarterback is the one super-premium position. WR, OT, EDGE, and CB are premium positions (and the top pass rushing DTs & receiving TEs fit in there too). RB is one of the non-premium positions.

So the basic questions are 1) how does RB stack up against the other non-premium positions, and 2) how early should teams be drafting players at the non-premium positions.

Do RBs matter significantly less than RGs or WLBs? Was it a big mistake for the Ravens to take a safety and a center in the first round last year?
 
So the basic questions are 1) how does RB stack up against the other non-premium positions, and 2) how early should teams be drafting players at the non-premium positions.

Do RBs matter significantly less than RGs or WLBs? Was it a big mistake for the Ravens to take a safety and a center in the first round last year?
Great content by you as always. This is where I sit. QB has always been a premium position, CB, LT, DE has always been a premium position. WR has seen more draft capital thrown it's way because of the defensive rule changes, allowing smaller receivers to get off the line quicker and CB to be less physical.

I slightly disagree with @EBF to the point of, who's better Stephen Jackson or Jonathon Taylor or whoever... picking those mid-level RBs that got a ton of touches in the 00's to the guys in today's offenses. I do agree that generational talents are called that for a reason and if an offense had a player like LT or AP they would immediately be better. Again, proven by Kyle Shanahans desire to go get CMC. Did they need him? Not really. Shanahan, alone, debunks the "RB's don't matter theory". He and his dad could pick up anyone and plug them into their offense for 1K yards but he chose to go after CMC because of the value an every down RB holds. If you have a committee of guys that specialize in specific tasks (short yardage, off tackle, pass catching, pass-protection) you are showing your cards with your personnel packages. If you have a guy that can do all of it, it keeps defenses guessing and yes... sells merchandise. 🤣
 
The last RB taken in the first round to play on a SB winning team was CEH . . . and he didn't even play in the SB last year for KC. The last first round RB prior to that to win a SB was Sony Michel . . . who NE traded away for a clipboard and a kicking tee before his rookie contract was up. Leonard Fournette won a SB . . . after being traded from the Jags. Marshawn Lynch won a SB . . . after he was traded to SEA. Antowain Smith was a first-round pick and won 3 SB's . . . after he was traded to NE. Marshall Faulk was a high impact, SB winning RB . . . for the Rams after he was traded from IND. Jerome Betts made the HOF and won a SB . . . after he was traded to the Steelers.

Look at DBs taken in the top 10 over the last decade and how their teams have done. And teams are still taking these guys in the top 5-10 a lot more often than RBs.

Stingley - Texans
Gardner - Jets
Horn - Panthers
Surtain - Broncos
Okudah - Lions
Henderson - Jags
Thompson - Cardinals
Beal - Giants
Adams - Jets
Ramsey - Jags
Apple - Giants
Gilbert - Browns
Millner - Jets

Likewise zero playoff wins for their original team. But still at least one taken top 10 overall in 11 of the last 12 years, and the only year there wasn't one in the top 10 they went 11th overall.
 
The last RB taken in the first round to play on a SB winning team was CEH . . . and he didn't even play in the SB last year for KC. The last first round RB prior to that to win a SB was Sony Michel . . . who NE traded away for a clipboard and a kicking tee before his rookie contract was up. Leonard Fournette won a SB . . . after being traded from the Jags. Marshawn Lynch won a SB . . . after he was traded to SEA. Antowain Smith was a first-round pick and won 3 SB's . . . after he was traded to NE. Marshall Faulk was a high impact, SB winning RB . . . for the Rams after he was traded from IND. Jerome Betts made the HOF and won a SB . . . after he was traded to the Steelers.

Look at DBs taken in the top 10 over the last decade and how their teams have done. And teams are still taking these guys in the top 5-10 a lot more often than RBs.

Stingley - Texans
Gardner - Jets
Horn - Panthers
Surtain - Broncos
Okudah - Lions
Henderson - Jags
Thompson - Cardinals
Beal - Giants
Adams - Jets
Ramsey - Jags
Apple - Giants
Gilbert - Browns
Millner - Jets

Likewise zero playoff wins for their original team. But still at least one taken top 10 overall in 11 of the last 12 years, and the only year there wasn't one in the top 10 they went 11th overall.
Taking any position and using playoff wins as a measure of the value of drafting that position does seem useless
 

Look at DBs taken in the top 10 over the last decade and how their teams have done. And teams are still taking these guys in the top 5-10 a lot more often than RBs.

Stingley - Texans
Gardner - Jets
Horn - Panthers
Surtain - Broncos
Okudah - Lions
Henderson - Jags
Thompson - Cardinals
Beal - Giants
Adams - Jets
Ramsey - Jags
Apple - Giants
Gilbert - Browns
Millner - Jets

Likewise zero playoff wins for their original team. But still at least one taken top 10 overall in 11 of the last 12 years, and the only year there wasn't one in the top 10 they went 11th overall.
Straight up, these top 10 CBs don't seem to be worth it.
 
If Jahymr Gibbs becomes Shady McCoy, it was still the wrong pick.
Yeah, that was odd.

Bijan to Atlanta....yikes. Taking a RB in the top ten after taking a TE in the top ten a couple years ago. Spending that capital on non-premium positions is why bad teams stay bad.
I think you have to surround your young QB with talent but I'd agree that ATL has a ton of holes and this seemed like the wrong move. As a holder of 1.01 and Pitts owner, it makes my head hurt to think about having multiple shares in the high powered Atlanta offense 🤢
 
If Jahymr Gibbs becomes Shady McCoy, it was still the wrong pick.
Yeah, that was odd.

Bijan to Atlanta....yikes. Taking a RB in the top ten after taking a TE in the top ten a couple years ago. Spending that capital on non-premium positions is why bad teams stay bad.
I think you have to surround your young QB with talent but I'd agree that ATL has a ton of holes and this seemed like the wrong move. As a holder of 1.01 and Pitts owner, it makes my head hurt to think about having multiple shares in the high powered Atlanta offense 🤢
Bijan should be a beast in fantasy though. That Atlanta offensive line was doing a great job creating space for some not very good RBs. Not sure it is a winning formula for the NFL, but stranger things have happened.
 
If Jahymr Gibbs becomes Shady McCoy, it was still the wrong pick.
Yeah, that was odd.

Bijan to Atlanta....yikes. Taking a RB in the top ten after taking a TE in the top ten a couple years ago. Spending that capital on non-premium positions is why bad teams stay bad.
I think you have to surround your young QB with talent but I'd agree that ATL has a ton of holes and this seemed like the wrong move. As a holder of 1.01 and Pitts owner, it makes my head hurt to think about having multiple shares in the high powered Atlanta offense 🤢
Bijan should be a beast in fantasy though. That Atlanta offensive line was doing a great job creating space for some not very good RBs. Not sure it is a winning formula for the NFL, but stranger things have happened.
It was with Tennessee in the not so distant past and could be enough in a weak NFC South but until they get a QB they’re not winning a playoff game.
 
The last RB taken in the first round to play on a SB winning team was CEH . . . and he didn't even play in the SB last year for KC. The last first round RB prior to that to win a SB was Sony Michel . . . who NE traded away for a clipboard and a kicking tee before his rookie contract was up. Leonard Fournette won a SB . . . after being traded from the Jags. Marshawn Lynch won a SB . . . after he was traded to SEA. Antowain Smith was a first-round pick and won 3 SB's . . . after he was traded to NE. Marshall Faulk was a high impact, SB winning RB . . . for the Rams after he was traded from IND. Jerome Betts made the HOF and won a SB . . . after he was traded to the Steelers.

The last first-round RB to make a huge impact and win a SB for his original team was Emmitt Smith, and he was drafted in 1990. Before that, the last first-rounder to win a SB was Marcus Allen (drafted in 1982). Before him, there was Tony Dorsett (drafted in 1977), Walter Payton (drafted in 1975), and Franco Harris (drafted in 1972). Add it all up, and there were 5 guys in 50 years that were impact RB's as first-round picks that won a SB for the team that drafted them. Not sure that proves or disproves anything, but there haven't been many first-round RB that stuck around and won a title on the team that drafted them.
Well, there’s 22 positions on every team. I wonder how the other 21 stack up.
 
If Jahymr Gibbs becomes Shady McCoy, it was still the wrong pick.
Yeah, that was odd.

Bijan to Atlanta....yikes. Taking a RB in the top ten after taking a TE in the top ten a couple years ago. Spending that capital on non-premium positions is why bad teams stay bad.
Metrics are all well and good, but London/Pitts/Bijan’s is a fantastic corps of offensive talent.
 
If Jahymr Gibbs becomes Shady McCoy, it was still the wrong pick.
Yeah, that was odd.

Bijan to Atlanta....yikes. Taking a RB in the top ten after taking a TE in the top ten a couple years ago. Spending that capital on non-premium positions is why bad teams stay bad.
Metrics are all well and good, but London/Pitts/Bijan’s is a fantastic corps of offensive talent.
Hard to argue against that but those are 3 top 10 picks and their team is still terrible.
 
You just can't legitimately justify the idea of spending premium (picks or $$) on the running back position, with any quantifiable measures.

There are exceptions to every rule. This draft was unique which is why we had two Running Backs in the top 12.

1. This draft lacked premium defensive linemen who will be impact players. Outside of Will Anderson, Jalen Carter and argueably Tyree Wilson, no DL moved the needle much. One went #3, one was a bit of a head case and still went #9, and one went #7.

2. There were three premium QBs and they went 1,2, and 4.

3. The corner back space was stacked with good talent, but that also meant you could wait. With the exception of Witherspoon who stood out against the rest, so he went #5.

4. There were a few OL who moved the needle, and they went 6, 10 and 11.

5. WR? Yuk. This was not a group who excited anyone. JSN was in a tier by himself, but in most years he would be a tier two guy.

So now you are stuck with the elite talent at lower value positions (TE, LB and RB) who will have the bigger impact over run of the mill prospects at the more 'premium positions'. And that is what happened this year. So if you were in dire need of a running back, tight end or linebacker....this was the year you had to take one earlier. It was just a piss poor year at the top of the draft with most NFL teams only considered 12 to 16 guys as legit round one talent. So you can view most picks in round one this year as equivalent to round two picks.

So yeah, pick 8 and 12 were not ideal in most years to burn premium draft capital. But this year was different than most.
 
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You just can't legitimately justify the idea of spending premium (picks or $$) on the running back position, with any quantifiable measures.

There are exceptions to every rule. This draft was unique which is why we had two Running Backs in the top 12.

1. This draft lacked premium defensive linemen who will be impact players. Outside of Will Anderson, Jalen Carter and argueably Tyree Wilson, no DL moved the needle much. One went #3, one was a bit of a head case and still went #9, and one went #7.

2. There were three premium QBs and they went 1,2, and 4.

3. The corner back space was stacked with good talent, but that also meant you could wait. With the exception of Witherspoon who stood out against the rest, so he went #5.

4. There were a few OL who moved the needle, and they went 6, 10 and 11.

5. WR? Yuk. This was not a group who excited anyone. JSN was in a tier by himself, but in most years he would be a tier two guy.

So now you are stuck with the elite talent at lower value positions (TE, LB and RB) who will have the bigger impact over run of the mill prospects at the more 'premium positions'. And that is what happened this year. So if you were in dire need of a running back, tight end or linebacker....this was the year you had to take one earlier. It was just a piss poor year at the top of the draft with most NFL teams only considered 12 to 16 guys as legit round one talent. So you can view most picks in round one this year as equivalent to round two picks.

So yeah, pick 8 and 12 were not ideal in most years to burn premium draft capital. But this year was different than most.
Lets just be blunt, this draft class was ***.
 
Miami's Chris Greir got the memo. In his 7 drafts, he's only had 2 RBs in the top 3 rounds, Drake in the 3rd and now Achane in the 3rd. Actually, he might've drafted Dobbins late 2nd in 2020 but the Ravens got him the pick before. Grier also drafted Gaskins in the 7th and he was serviceable for 2 years. Goaks in the 7th didn't pan out, so now we have 31 year old UDFA Mostert as our #1 at a cheap $2.85 million for a 75.7 pff grade in 2022.

In the 3rd round and later in Miami's drafts there have been a few hits, Brandon Jones in the 3rd, Smythe in the 5th, Van Ginkle in the 5th, STers Sanders and Blake in the 7th and 6th. But overall, players drafted 84th or later don't have a high success rate. Miami only had 4 picks, and they view Achane as an immediate contributor as a KR, and COP back with chunk play capability. It wasn't a reach based on draft grades and both Mostert and Wilson could be gone in 2024, so not a bad pick IMO. The other option was Darnell Washington who was BPA ... time will tell. Archane should be fun to watch.
 
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Veteran RBs this offseason:
  • Took pay cut: Joe Mixon, Aaron Jones
  • Cut: Ezekiel Elliott, Dalvin Cook, Leonard Fournette
  • Tagged, but no deal: Saquon Barkley, Josh Jacobs, Tony Pollard.
  • Wanted new deal and asked for trade: Austin Ekeler
  • Has been a FA all offseason: Kareem Hunt
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate · 13h
 
The franchise tag for Running Backs is now lower than it was in 2015.

At most positions, players grow and get back over time. We often see a huge jump from Y1 to Y2, or Y2 to Y3.

QB, WR, TE, OL - we see it all the time, it takes awhile to develop your craft, there is a refinement of skills.

Uniquely amongst all positions, most of the elite RBs are ready to go out of the box. Their peak years are almost always during their rookie contract. The athleticism, speed, ability to cut - that's not getting better Y5 or Y6. After the first deal runs out, maybe one year on the tag? Then it's either take a pay cut to remain the starter or "thanks for your service, we're gonna go draft the next guy in the 2nd-3rd round."

Will we ever see a Ezekiel Elliott got in 2019? 6 years, $90M, $50M GTD, no guaranteed money the last year. The first year the contract was no longer guaranteed, he got cut.

Derrick Henry got 4 years, $50M, $25.5M GTD in 2020. Now 29, he's on his final year.

According to Schefter, the last time a running back in the NFL signed a long-term contract worth $10 million or more per year was Cleveland Browns’ Nick Chubb in 2021.
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
 
The pendulum has swung too far. They have more value then they're currently getting. Guys like Barkley and Henry are still worth more then 10/yr. And the better RBs DO carry value into their 5th, 6th and 7 seasons. HIt on a a 1st or 2nd rounder and the 6 or 7 years you can get are just fine. Absurd to believe you NEED to be able to get 10-12 years out of any pick.

It will shift back sooner or later (some....the RB heyday is certainly gone in this pass happy league)
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where players take that type of physical abuse. And the better you are the more abuse you take. Then after 4 or 5 years they spit you out.
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where players take that type of physical abuse. And the better you are the more abuse you take. Then after 4 or 5 years they spit you out.
Unjust is subjective, but if RBs don't like it, no one is forcing them to play that position. It was obvious years ago that RBs were becoming less valuable, and the current crop all chose to stay at the position and enter the NFL and play it, so there it is.
 
do RBs take more abuse than tight ends or linemen? I doubt it's a big difference either way, I do think the general wear and tear on a RB affects them more because speed/agility/running ability is harmed more and they need those skills more than TE/linemen
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where players take that type of physical abuse. And the better you are the more abuse you take. Then after 4 or 5 years they spit you out.
Unjust is subjective, but if RBs don't like it, no one is forcing them to play that position. It was obvious years ago that RBs were becoming less valuable, and the current crop all chose to stay at the position and enter the NFL and play it, so there it is.
why are you against treating labor fairly? can everyone just get a new job? the actors striking? people at UPS?
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where players take that type of physical abuse. And the better you are the more abuse you take. Then after 4 or 5 years they spit you out.
Unjust is subjective, but if RBs don't like it, no one is forcing them to play that position. It was obvious years ago that RBs were becoming less valuable, and the current crop all chose to stay at the position and enter the NFL and play it, so there it is.
why are you against treating labor fairly? can everyone just get a new job? the actors striking? people at UPS?
I have nothing against labor; I am merely saying that the RBs should not get special treatment from the league to make up for how the market has shifted against them. Stud RBs are not that valuable anymore. It is that simple.
 
The kicker is teams can run them into the ground with no repercussions. Will never happen but really need a cap on the # of carries. Also should be able to negotiate a new contract after 2 years and change the rules for franchise tags on RBs
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where players take that type of physical abuse. And the better you are the more abuse you take. Then after 4 or 5 years they spit you out.
Unjust is subjective, but if RBs don't like it, no one is forcing them to play that position. It was obvious years ago that RBs were becoming less valuable, and the current crop all chose to stay at the position and enter the NFL and play it, so there it is.
why are you against treating labor fairly? can everyone just get a new job? the actors striking? people at UPS?
I have nothing against labor; I am merely saying that the RBs should not get special treatment from the league to make up for how the market has shifted against them. Stud RBs are not that valuable anymore. It is that simple.
The problem is that they are valuable when they're young and they don't have mileage on them. Did you notice that 2 RB's were picked in the first 12 picks this year? But they are tied to the rookie contract and then can be franchised. By that time they are 5 seasons in, usually around 27 years old, and have tons of wear and tear from overuse in many cases.
 
Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Because it's unjust. It's the only position where

Why should RBs get this special treatment?

The bottom line is that position isn't nearly as valuable as it used to be (it is far more valuable to have a running game, which you can achieve through RBBC, than it is to have a stud RB), and the market has adjusted accordingly.
Unjust is subjective, but if RBs don't like it, no one is forcing them to play that position. It was obvious years ago that RBs were becoming less valuable, and the current crop all chose to stay at the position and enter the NFL and play it, so there it is.
I have nothing against labor; I am merely saying that the RBs should not get special treatment from the league to make up for how the market has shifted against them. S.
@Ghost Rider nailed it imo
 

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