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Suicide-by-text manslaughter trial in MA (1 Viewer)

It'll be interesting to see what her sentencing will be. Not a lawyer, but I don't see it being that long. 

 
I think everyone agrees she is a complete piece of trash...my question (and maybe it was answered but I don't feel like looking back) is where will this lead?  Can a lawyer or two explain how this doesn't open up Pandora's box...I have not followed this too closely but is she basically guilty of being a horrible person? 

 
I don't know enough about this case to have much of a valid opinion.  However, I was a little sympathetic for her since she was a minor on medication with her own issues of depression.  I guess I am surprised by the verdict, but again, I acknowledge I haven't followed the case closely.  

 
Boston said:
I think everyone agrees she is a complete piece of trash...my question (and maybe it was answered but I don't feel like looking back) is where will this lead?  Can a lawyer or two explain how this doesn't open up Pandora's box...I have not followed this too closely but is she basically guilty of being a horrible person? 
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This case brought to mind the often quoted line about not being able to define obscenity - I'm not sure I can define what being a horrible person is that is deserving of involuntary manslaughter but I think everybody that followed this case knew that she deserved it.

 
AAABatteries said:
This case brought to mind the often quoted line about not being able to define obscenity - I'm not sure I can define what being a horrible person is that is deserving of involuntary manslaughter but I think everybody that followed this case knew that she deserved it.
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That is what I don't understand...she is awful, should be shunned and all that other stuff...zero sympathy for her but my question is one without emotion...do we now have (or did we always) a defined law of when a horrible person's words become a criminal offense?  Are there other examples similar to this?

 
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Kinds thinking that this is the kind of thing that you'd ask 100 judges to rule on, and maybe 15 would rule "guilty of manslaughter" and the other 85 would rule (while cursing her privately) "not guilty (because, privately, I don't want to set this precedent)".

Michelle Carter's story is pretty far from over, one would think. Insta-appeal is taking place, I am sure.

 
Apparently she was so desperate for friends and wanted to climb the social ladder.  Nobody wanted her in their social circles.

 
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Boston said:
I think everyone agrees she is a complete piece of trash...my question (and maybe it was answered but I don't feel like looking back) is where will this lead?  Can a lawyer or two explain how this doesn't open up Pandora's box...I have not followed this too closely but is she basically guilty of being a horrible person? 
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This is really no different than convictions where bullying has led to a person committing suicide.   Her actions are directly related to his death.   

 
Difference here imo is she was on phone and encoraging him while he choked out. 

Had he done this just on his own while not in direct contact it would not have gone down this way. People are hung up on the texts but the call is the hook here.

Note not a lawyer so may be talking out of add.

 
Boston said:
That is what I don't understand...she is awful, should be shunned and all that other stuff...zero sympathy for her but my question is one without emotion...do we now have (or did we always) a defined law of when a horrible person's words become a criminal offense?  Are there other examples similar to this?
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Isnt it basically the Good Samaritan law?

 
-fish- said:
This is really no different than convictions where bullying has led to a person committing suicide.   Her actions are directly related to his death.   
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I wasn't aware this was the case with bullying.. which is what this is.

I was curious about this one in regards to the 1st amendment. another thing out recently (and IIRC, happened right when the trial for this one happened, so made me think of the two together)... the harvard incoming kids getting the boot for inappropriate posts on a group FB page. 

 
Legal analyst on TV reasoned that by virtue of a "guilty" verdict, the judge essentially kept the case open so that is can go to the Supreme Judicial Court. Not a bad move in a landmark case ... better to have "precedent" set by a seven-judge panel than a single opinion.

Legal minds here may agree or disagree, but I did find that thought interesting.

 
shadyridr said:
Isnt it basically the Good Samaritan law?
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Good Samaritan laws (generaly) do not require you to help some one. They are in place to protect the "good samaritan" from liability once he/she decides to help. Watching some one dying on a sidewalk and walking away is a crappy thing to do  but generally not illegal.  

 
El Floppo said:
I wasn't aware this was the case with bullying.. which is what this is.

I was curious about this one in regards to the 1st amendment. another thing out recently (and IIRC, happened right when the trial for this one happened, so made me think of the two together)... the harvard incoming kids getting the boot for inappropriate posts on a group FB page. 
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The 1st Amendment doesn't dictate what a private institution like Harvard can do.

 
Boston said:
I think everyone agrees she is a complete piece of trash...my question (and maybe it was answered but I don't feel like looking back) is where will this lead?  Can a lawyer or two explain how this doesn't open up Pandora's box...I have not followed this too closely but is she basically guilty of being a horrible person? 
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I think probably it's not that hard.  Just don't repeatedly try and convince someone to kill themselves and you'll be fine.

Sometimes the gray area is tricky.  This one should be OK.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Good Samaritan laws (generaly) do not require you to help some one. They are in place to protect the "good samaritan" from liability once he/she decides to help. Watching some one dying on a sidewalk and walking away is a crappy thing to do  but generally not illegal.  
Click to expand...
I guess I watch too many Seinfeld episodes

 
Boston said:
That is what I don't understand...she is awful, should be shunned and all that other stuff...zero sympathy for her but my question is one without emotion...do we now have (or did we always) a defined law of when a horrible person's words become a criminal offense?  Are there other examples similar to this?
Click to expand...
I can't really explain it better than I did - her actions IMO (and the judges) led to this guy killing himself.  Do I think she deserves a life sentence, no but I don't see how anybody can ready those texts and think she isn't in some way culpable.  And I agree with others that it will probably be about 2 years.  I would go higher myself - I think she deserves 5-7 years (maybe time off for good behavior) but to me 2 years isn't enough for what she did.

 
After reading those texts, I think I might have broken up with her.

If I were writing a manslaughter statute, I think I'd try to write it so as not to include her behavior as manslaughter. Maybe entrapment should be an analogy. If she convinces him to do something that he never otherwise would have done, it counts. If she encourages him to do something that he may well have done anyway, particularly when she seems more misguided and youthfully injudicious than mean-spirited, maybe it shouldn't. Especially when suicide itself isn't illegal (as it apparently isn't in their state), discussing the issue openly shouldn't be illegal.

But it's a hard issue that further reflection may cause me to change my mind about.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
After reading those texts, I think I might have broken up with her.

If I were writing a manslaughter statute, I think I'd try to write it so as not to include her behavior as manslaughter. Maybe entrapment should be an analogy. If she convinces him to do something that he never otherwise would have done, it counts. If she encourages him to do something that he may well have done anyway, particularly when she seems more misguided and youthfully injudicious than mean-spirited, maybe it shouldn't. Especially when suicide itself isn't illegal (as it apparently isn't in their state), discussing the issue openly shouldn't be illegal.

But it's a hard issue that further reflection may cause me to change my mind about.
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The fact that he kept backing out saying that he didn't want to die and she mocked him and told him to just do it is hard for me to swallow.

The clincher to me is him getting out of the car saying he didn't want to die and she told him to get back in the car. 

I'm not sure that manslaughter is the right charge, but I definitely believe that he would not have committed suicide if she were not in the picture.

 
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