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Mother of Marine KILLED in ISIS bomb attack has her InstaTwit account suspended for criticizing POTUS Biden (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ministry of Pain
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
So then what i saw was fake news, yes/no?
If it's fake news then how does one ever figure out what they are reading and if it's fake or not? Seems like you have to double and triple check every story.
Even with an issued apology, likely only because InstaTwit will look so bad in the conversation they try and save face.
Bias media once again, never ends.
squistion
Footballguy
You didn't see what you thought you saw. The article says it was Instagram, your original title claimed it was Twitter that suspended the acoount. You apparently misread the link.
Drop the deflection with the technicalities. It's gross. This isn't about whether it's Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. But you know that.
It's about whether a grieving mother can say seriously negative things about a president.
No idea if it was actually a mistake or a reversal after pressure but it's still ugly.
As a parent, I can't imagine losing a child to a war like this one.
I'm more inclined to grieve with the parents and family and friends and not argue it.
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belljr
Footballguy
So as someone that operates a forum, Instagram doesn't have the right to suspend an account?
They absolutely have the right to allow what they want to allow. And deal with the response to those decisions. That's what can be discussed. That's why I wrote:
Not the deflection of "you said instagram but it was really facebook" or whatever that was.
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belljr
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its no surprise at all - once a precedence is set to ban people who disagree, it continues
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The issue in play is Chappell is claiming Instagram engaged in "retros" meaning they dug deep into past postings/activity and then escalated under their TOS all at once.
That would be the equivalent of, running the hypothetical, if I was one of the co-owners of FBG and decided I wanted you gone. Then I had other Staff members dig through your entire post history to find anything that could be marginally considered a violation of the rules here. Then instead of warning, warning, ban for X amount of time, warning, ban for Y amount of time, then permanent banning over a stretch of years or months, it all happened in a matter of hours. In media optics, we call it a "stacking escalation"
That's to say "technically" that Instagram held to the terms of it's TOS to shield against legal liability. But the ugly question becomes if that past stuff was so horrible, why didn't you do something about it before? Why did you wait until now when it would be to your political narrative advantage to drag someone behind the barn and clip them?
So if I did that to you, "technically" I'd have the right to do that on a private forum, however is that actually keeping with any form of actual integrity? Is that good for the entire community? Is that good for what I'd want the brand to represent? Is that good for the person who is trying to find their voice and wants to share and participate but then they see the carnage and bloodshed and decides to never speak up?
Do you see how easy it is to split hairs on some line of some user agreement as pure cover to kneecap someone into submission? This thread didn't even last one reply before someone tried to split hairs to try to logical fallacy bomb the actual discussion point of topic in the first place.
********
Direct Headline: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook After Trump Suspension
By Natalie Colarossi On 1/9/21 at 1:21 PM EST
https://www.newsweek.com/aclu-counsel-warns-unchecked-power-twitter-facebook-after-trump-suspension-1560248
"President (Donald) Trump can turn his (media and) press team or Fox News ( or other Conservative outlet) to communicate with the (general) public, but others – like many Black, Brown, and LGTBQ activists ( and others who risk disenfranchisement) who have been censored by social media companies ( such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc, etc) – will not have that luxury."
*******
ACLU head legal counsel Kate Ruane made a very good point and it actually has very little to do with Trump or Orange Man Bad. Situations like this mother will get an immediate "correction" as there is too much negative press and loss of revenue and backlash to sustain for Instagram. But how about EVERYONE ELSE?
Just "fixing" this issue for this one person ( Chappell) does not change the reality that there is no oversight nor regulation nor any type of actual consistency from Big Social Media and the reality is they have become a new type of indispensable "utility" in the marketplace.
The litmus test of free speech and Big Social Media are NOT the people who can lay punishment to Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey for getting railroaded. It's actually the rank and file average person who can't actually defend themselves and if they can get a fair shake and a fair opportunity to actually exercise their First Amendment rights.
shadrap
Footballguy
Is there anything more American than a private business operating without interference from Government?
Lets take out the "mistake" aspect here for a moment - this was a private company regulating private speech within the confines of its product.
This was not the government saying what a grieving mother could say, or where she could say it - indeed, there seems to be no interference at all from the government.
People have always been free to say most things, and conversely, people/businesses are subject to reactions to those decisions. That is the essence of America. Twitter/Facebook/Whoever made a decision, and will rightly face any public backlash that arises.
So, its a bit disingenuous to jump to: "Can we stop calling it America or the United States"
Lets take out the "mistake" aspect here for a moment - this was a private company regulating private speech within the confines of its product.
This was not the government saying what a grieving mother could say, or where she could say it - indeed, there seems to be no interference at all from the government.
People have always been free to say most things, and conversely, people/businesses are subject to reactions to those decisions. That is the essence of America. Twitter/Facebook/Whoever made a decision, and will rightly face any public backlash that arises.
So, its a bit disingenuous to jump to: "Can we stop calling it America or the United States"
supermike80
Footballguy
Weak take. The principles of what makes us American should stretch beyond just what the government does.
Continually trying to defend this by claiming it wasn't government sponsored and therefore its ok doesn't work for me.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Social Media As A Public Utility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_as_a_public_utility
******
A strong argument could be made that Big Social Media should be treated like utilities. The impact of Big Social Media far outstrips the nominal conception of a "private business"
If you tried that in court with me, you wouldn't last very long.
Here's a better consideration - Why not have you discuss here and now why Big Social Media should not be considered and treated as a utility?
Ok.
But, I hope you are not suggesting that individuals and private businesses should be held to the same standards as the Government. Because, that is not at all what the founders envisioned...
In this particular case - it was clearly an error by Twitter/Facebook/Whoever but, thankfully that error was based on their own standards, not government imposed speech restrictions...
I would have loved to go up against you in court. I would feel very comfortable with my chances in that setting.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Easiest and laziest way to kill off any dissent is to slaughter diversity of thought and diversity of opinion as a whole. It's like saying, "I can cure your cancer for you guaranteed!" and then they pick up a Glock and shoot you in the head.
Splitting hairs is the tool of the unskilled. One can disagree and still be a high value contributor.
Most of time though, it's not even about the skill, it's just sweat equity. Some people are just too damn lazy to invest in making this community a better place.
Right now, at this very minute and second, there is someone lurking who has never posted in these forums but read for a long time and wants to share, wants to talk, wants to discuss, but it's a struggle to get their voice out. What some of us regulars take for granted, our voice, it's like climbing up a mountain with one's fingernails for many other people.
So every post that a regular makes here, on both sides of the aisle, are really statements on whether those lurkers on the fence are truly welcome here or not.
For what it's worth, I like you shadrap, you are a good egg.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
WoW!
Can we stop calling it America or the United States and find something else because this is a very poor reflection of what this country was founded on over 250 years ago.
To be fair to your point (and not the more emotionally charged narrative of it being the mother of a soldier who passed)....I'd imagine that a private business being able to run their business the way they want would fall very much in line with the what the country was founded on over 250 years ago.
That being said, it is a poor decision on the behalf of InstaTwitaBook to do this.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If you were one of the owners of Footballguys....you probably don't need any other reason other than "I'm one of the owners of Footballguys" to have someone gone.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: Utilities for democracy: Why and how the algorithmic infrastructure of Facebook and Google must be regulated
Josh Simons and Dipayan Ghosh August 2020
https://www.brookings.edu/research/utilities-for-democracy-why-and-how-the-algorithmic-infrastructure-of-facebook-and-google-must-be-regulated/
(CEO Mark Zuckerberg).... “in a lot of (different) ways (my company) Facebook is more like a (real) government than (just) a traditional company......”
*******
When you deal with people on a massive scale, what you become beholden to is managing their collective expectations.
How social media and particularly Big Social Media fits into our modern society is a complex issue. You can attempt to oversimplify it, but the problem you'll face is what happens when it's not someone else who gets run over with a purity test from one of these "private" entities. What happens when it's you? What happens when it's someone you love? What happens when it's someone who's helped you or given you an opportunity or makes your life a better overall place?
What happens if I owned FBG and it was clear ( just like in real life for Big Tech and Big Social Media ) that there was collusion in place by all the major players?
What happens if your child needs an EpiPen and someone decides that they should now cost 10 thousand dollar each. Taking the context out of vastly complex subject like Big Social Media versus Everyone Else robs people of freedom and choice by making soft distinctions. Intent matters.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Exactly.
When these "private businesses" act as a proxy government then there really is no difference whether they are doing it or government is doing it. The owners of these social media platforms are not basing their TOS of equality and fairness, they're basing them on what side of the aisle you lean on.
When lefties hide behind this nonsense and say "but it's a private business!" they are being intentionally disingenuous. I have no idea how they can see what's going on and still admit that nothing is wrong. One can only assume that it's because it benefits them by silencing voices they don't agree with.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
shadrap
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
"U then rolled your ####ing eyes in your head like you wer eannoyed with me
...
Cheating isn't winning!!!You are no leader of any kind! You are a weak human being and a traitor!!! you are leaving the White House one way or another because you do not belong there!MY SONS BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS!!! All 13 of them, their blood is on your hands!!!! If my president Trump was in his rightful seat then my son and the other heros would still be alive!!!! You will be seeing me again very soon!!! Btw as my son and the rest of our fallen Heros were being taken off the plane yesterday i watched you disrespect us all 5 different times by checking your watch!!!! What the #### was so important that you had to keep looking at your watch????You are nobody special Biden!!! America Hates you!!!!!"
Gee, I wonder how IG's algorithm ended up banning her.
@Joe Bryant how long would someone be banned from FBG's if they made a post like that?
The only thing political about any of this is that her account was RESTORED within 24 hours, not that it was banned in the first place. She could have made the exact same post about pineapple pizza instead of about Joe Biden and she'd still be banned right now.
Like 15 years ago there used to be this videogame blog called Joystiq that I would read. It was really popular for a while there. Man the comments were a cesspool. Just 12-13 year old fanboys of one system or the other going at each other's throats. It was always the same thing. They'd argue back and forth, then one of them would go way to far and curse the other one out or talk about doing something particularly vile to the other one's mom, and would get banned. Then they would come back under an alias and say "oh well I guess the moderators here must be sega fanboys I thought this was America you bunch of commies".
It was so childish. I laughed it off because they were kids. How sad a state we live in that now it is grown adults, and even sometimes elected politicians, doing the exact same thing.
...
Cheating isn't winning!!!You are no leader of any kind! You are a weak human being and a traitor!!! you are leaving the White House one way or another because you do not belong there!MY SONS BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS!!! All 13 of them, their blood is on your hands!!!! If my president Trump was in his rightful seat then my son and the other heros would still be alive!!!! You will be seeing me again very soon!!! Btw as my son and the rest of our fallen Heros were being taken off the plane yesterday i watched you disrespect us all 5 different times by checking your watch!!!! What the #### was so important that you had to keep looking at your watch????You are nobody special Biden!!! America Hates you!!!!!"
Gee, I wonder how IG's algorithm ended up banning her.
@Joe Bryant how long would someone be banned from FBG's if they made a post like that?
The only thing political about any of this is that her account was RESTORED within 24 hours, not that it was banned in the first place. She could have made the exact same post about pineapple pizza instead of about Joe Biden and she'd still be banned right now.
Like 15 years ago there used to be this videogame blog called Joystiq that I would read. It was really popular for a while there. Man the comments were a cesspool. Just 12-13 year old fanboys of one system or the other going at each other's throats. It was always the same thing. They'd argue back and forth, then one of them would go way to far and curse the other one out or talk about doing something particularly vile to the other one's mom, and would get banned. Then they would come back under an alias and say "oh well I guess the moderators here must be sega fanboys I thought this was America you bunch of commies".
It was so childish. I laughed it off because they were kids. How sad a state we live in that now it is grown adults, and even sometimes elected politicians, doing the exact same thing.
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
I remember when bunch of private businesses got together to exclude black people from their establishments. Based on your post here - if I understand it correctly - you'd be perfectly fine with that since, y'know, it isn't the government doing the excluding. Am I right?
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
A better analogy here would be if the businesses kicked out a black person who came in with no shirt or shoes on and started yelling obscenities at everyone inside and then got kicked out.
The lady broke like half of IG's ToS in a single paragraph.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
They shouldn't be doing that. They are doing it for and acting on behalf of govt.
Weak sauce
He wasn't providing an analogy. He provided an example where a private business couldn't just ban anyone they wanted to.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I wish we had more examples like this where people are banned, and what they wrote. Way too often people jump to the "banning opposing views" angle. More times than not, people are just being #######s like the anonymity of the internet fosters.
That said, obviously I feel for her, and can't imagine the pain she is feeling. But that is not banning a post for conservative views.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Whoa....what about me, GG? I'm feeling left out.
You are a true patriot. I know if I recruited 50 good men to go and save those stranded and abandoned American citizens in Afghanistan, that you'd be first in line. We'd need AH-6 Little Birds to move around the city. I don't think we could get coverage from AC-130J Ghostrider gunships. But maybe we could commandeer a Spooky version no one is paying attention to at the moment.
I'm sure we could train some of those women in the airfield to run some mortar teams for us. What do they have to lose at this point?
Politicians only know how to talk. This problem needs shooters. They need guys like us leading good men in the field.
Blade Runner, my friend, I will always stand with you.
WoW!
Can we stop calling it America or the United States and find something else because this is a very poor reflection of what this country was founded on over 250 years ago.
Not a fan of Trump, but I really hope his lawsuit against Twitter, Google and YouTube is successful. I just hope he has competent lawyers which is probably hoping too much.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Unfortunately, ToS are enforced by these monoplolies in lock step with the Democratic party. The Biden White House has even admitted they report ToS violations to these monopolies. Seems like government driven censorship.
djmich
Footballguy
Does it? Based on what I've seen written over the past 3yrs there'd need to be tens of thousands of accounts banned if calling out the president was the measuring stick.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
If they applied those same rules towards people who criticized Trump or the police it would all be good. But unfortunately it is mostly driven by wokism/PC/Democratic agendas..
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
There are probably tens of thousands accounts banned every day.
Like I said, she could have made the same series of posts about pizza instead of politics and she'd still have been banned.
It could be. Or he could be talking about impeachment or resignation. There is probably just enough plausible deniability, but is stepping on the line.
djmich
Footballguy
Would be funny if they suspended the account and attributed it to misinformation based on the bolded
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Exactly....threatening the POTUS isn't exactly the right tact to take.
The disengenuous reporting of this is more divisive than the act of banning someone for this rhetoric.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
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For some odd reason it always seems like it is those on the right getting banned. I see their lame attempt at fact-checking and it always sways left with or without actual facts.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Maybe they misrepresent the notion of 1st Amendment rights more than those on the Left with their misguided outrage being picked up by Right Wing Media Sources to be used as misguided red meat for their rank and file; thus creating an Echo Chamber?
If it makes you feel any better, I've been banned by both Parler and Breitbart.
Insein
Footballguy
Thousands of people threaten the president every day online. They don't get their accounts suspended. Mass reporting triggers these companies auto suspend systems.
And as far as threats go, this barely qualifies. It was reported because it's a publicized trump supporter.
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