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Only got 56 seconds in and killed it because of the obvious political implications of "choice." I still remember when people on the gay activist left insisted it was choice and not biology. And how dumb I felt for my stupid, uninformed troglodyte insistence otherwise that proved correct twenty years later.
If only we could cut them from the human race
Why did you kill the video because of the obvious political implications of "choice"? It sounds like you agree with the kid. In any event, if you had continued watching, you would have seen that the choice/non-choice issue was completely secondary to what was the true tragedy of the events depicted.
'95. That's when they were so worried about genetic determinism and abortion that the fashionable thing to do was to insist on the morality of a choice-based homosexual lifestyle.
Because when you (me) remembers a while back, when you're getting yelled at in liberal arts classes and treated as pariah for being outspoken in your beliefs that gayness was not a choice, only to see it adopted by the same people that were doing this to you for their own ends...
You got any links? Because this liberal doesn't recall that movement at all. In fact all I ever recall hearing was born that way out of my fellow travelers. Always heard lifestyle choice from the right wingers and alleged Christians. You know just like today.rockaction said:
Only got 56 seconds in and killed it because of the obvious political implications of yelling.Jaysus said:
The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
How many secular leaders do you see condemning homosexuals?The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
Weird. That could be generational or regional. I can only recount my experience as a liberal arts guy at a Northeast college and then working on the cusp of Dupont Circle in D.C. in the late nineties.
I was in college in the 80s and 90s and I never once heard anyone who was "pro-gay" say that it was a choice. Pretty assbackwards.
In this case, religion is quite obviously a huge influence in her developed beliefs and as such is a primary reason for her rejecting her son and his beliefs. She even says as much.The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
Yeah, but you can't possibly have read the articles that are talking about queerness and determinism in the nineties. Do you do this often, this quickness?
ditto. and I was in the North East.
How many secular leaders do you see condemning homosexuals?The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
When was the last time you heard somebody making an argument against homosexuality that wasn't rooted in religious beliefs?
What difference does that make which group you target your hatred towards? Hate is hate. butcher boy is casting a rather large net condemning all things religious.How many secular leaders do you see condemning homosexuals?The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
When was the last time you heard somebody making an argument against homosexuality that wasn't rooted in religious beliefs?
I went to a northeast liberal arts college in the 90s and worked in the vicinity of Dupont Circle shortly thereafter (hey neighbor!) and I don't ever remember any faction of the gay rights movement arguing that it was a choice, let alone taking issue with those claiming it was biologically determined.
You should state it as such then.In this case, religion is quite obviously a huge influence in her developed beliefs and as such is a primary reason for her rejecting her son and his beliefs. She even says as much.The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
I don't hate religion. I disagree with it when it comes to views on homosexuality and I find it disappointing when people use it to justify beliefs that are pretty despicable.
Would these people be acting this way without their religion?The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
Jon is right. I will always hate people with atrocious spelling and the absense of religioin won't change that.The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
I'm not going to fall on this sword, but here's an example of both, actually. This is exactly what I was talking about. From SUNY-Albany, this professor. I'm serious. Perhaps my experience doesn't match other peoples' experiences, but this was a distinct line of thought back then (1995), especially in the feminist movements of the time.
yeah but were you a a product of a sort of more radical leftist education than most?
Well played
I think if you grew up in Northern CT, where Mt Holyoke and Smith are a half an hour from you, and the politics are deep blue, you can claim this.
Yeah totally possible that this was a thing. I don't remember it, but politics makes strange bedfellows. NTTAWWT.
It's such an irritating issue that you feel compelled to shut down a video where the topic is mentioned, but not so irritating that you are good researching decades old articles and debating the topic on the internet for the ensuing couple hours?rockaction said:
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No, instead maybe you shouldn't interpret any criticism of religion as "hatred of all things religion".You should state it as such then.In this case, religion is quite obviously a huge influence in her developed beliefs and as such is a primary reason for her rejecting her son and his beliefs. She even says as much.The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
I don't hate religion. I disagree with it when it comes to views on homosexuality and I find it disappointing when people use it to justify beliefs that are pretty despicable.
What non religious grounds do you see people shielding themselves with when spewing hate towards gays?The absense of religioin would do nothing to eliminate hatred in society. Emotions such as hate, greed, and envy are inherient in people. People are going to hate other people. Maybe geography, maybe politics, maybe skin color. Your manifestiation of hatred towards all things religion is just another example of what you profess to hate.Religion
So darn true. Cognitive dissonance. Seriously.It's such an irritating issue that you feel compelled to shut down a video where the topic is mentioned, but not so irritating that you are good researching decades old articles and debating the topic on the internet for the ensuing couple hours?rockaction said:
(Just giving you a hard time
Came from a middle class upbringing into a hardcore hippie-left PG year at boarding school, and was honestly so apolitical and clueless that I didn't realize what Northeast universities were like. Hadn't heard that before. In my little hick town, if you went to college, that was living the dream. Our graduating class college rate was about 50%, which is pretty low.
