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US Men's National Team (8 Viewers)
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm pretty much in this boat as well.
I'm concerned with GGG, not as much because of how he approached that game last night... it was a botched corner kick from being a point stolen against a much better squad while getting our A group rested for what was always a must win home game vs CR. Yes, we'd all like to see better guys out there and can certain quibble about Lletget vs LDLT (without knowing much of anything about the latter and his ability to play within this formation), Bello and Moore, and running Nips again after he killed himself vs Jam.
But we could argue a weaker team, including a lot of these players, got the job done all summer in the GC and got results by playing with heart, determination and enough skill... all three of which were absent last night. I yelled onto the thread- "SO STATIC" a few times last night... lack of winning second balls... all telling of a team that is playing without the desire to make things happen. And that, along with an inability to do even the fundamentals like trap and pass, is on the players.
But as you say, I'm most worried about how even our A team isn't even playing so hot- vs El Sal, Can and Honduras, and dropping points that were far easier than away to Panama. Is that on GGG? Probably. Whatever they're doing isn't really working, and yet they're still rolling with the same approach and formation that other than vs Jamaica (who someboyd mentioned they decided to forego the MF) hasn't worked at all- even in the gutted out results of the GC. Shape is consistently bad, players are isolated on both sides of the ball lacking cohesive spacing, and the US ends up chasing games instead of dictating them... even with top regional players like CP, Gio, Swag, et al.
El Floppo
Footballguy
caveat- I was a Caillou supporter up until the bitter end... so, so good on so many levels of the game- even as a pro now. but he had fallen off the pace enough to be damaging at the international level, and had no support to cover that.
but the difference here- everybody was screaming bloody murder for his deserved benching- but there was literally nobody else to take the reigns. Lletget has a bunch of easy replacements at the ready and in camp, and yet here we are.
I'm hoping this is the last we see of him... and I actually like him. but he's of almost zero use to this team given the personnel available.
Moe.
Footballguy
@TLEF316 lot of activity between my post and your response, so I won’t quote it, but I don’t necessarily disagree with you, or anyone who is being critical. I clearly do not think Berhalter is some guru or elite coach who is going to lead us anywhere special.
But I do expect us to qualify, rather easily, and I think I’ve seen enough evidence to feel confident in that opinion. Most of the teams in this region simply aren’t that good, and we just need to win at home. We’re also insanely young. Doesn’t excuse Berhalter’s dumb decisions, but it is what it is.
Collectively I don’t think we’ve been watching a lot of Costa Rica in this thread, as someone mentioned that @ Costa Rica is one of our 4 toughest games. I no longer believe that to be true and think Costa Roca is 6th or 7th best. I think that’s our most likely road win.
My hope is he’s done after Qatar and we go a different direction next cycle when we really do have a chance to make some noise. If Berhalter is as tactically naive as everyone seems to think he is that will be very obvious in Qatar
But I do expect us to qualify, rather easily, and I think I’ve seen enough evidence to feel confident in that opinion. Most of the teams in this region simply aren’t that good, and we just need to win at home. We’re also insanely young. Doesn’t excuse Berhalter’s dumb decisions, but it is what it is.
Collectively I don’t think we’ve been watching a lot of Costa Rica in this thread, as someone mentioned that @ Costa Rica is one of our 4 toughest games. I no longer believe that to be true and think Costa Roca is 6th or 7th best. I think that’s our most likely road win.
My hope is he’s done after Qatar and we go a different direction next cycle when we really do have a chance to make some noise. If Berhalter is as tactically naive as everyone seems to think he is that will be very obvious in Qatar
El Floppo
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Sarge isn't the answer to any of these. But I'm sure I can come up with a Sarge related trivia question just for TripItUp.
Moe.
Footballguy
I also wonder if the qualifying thing (multiple games in a tight window, unlimited squad size, tons of chances to rotate) works against Berhalter and he’d be better off at the actual World Cup where you’ve got your 23 and don’t look to make too many changes from match to match. Andy has been pointing out his tendency to overthink for months now.
Reminds me of when I was in college and I’d take speed to stay up all night and cram for a big exam, and I’d end up just reorganizing my notes and smoking cigarettes the entire time instead of actually studying. I can just see Gregg emerging from some dark room Sunday morning with that team sheet in his hand thinking he’s stumbled onto something, when in reality it’s just a bunch gibberish.
Reminds me of when I was in college and I’d take speed to stay up all night and cram for a big exam, and I’d end up just reorganizing my notes and smoking cigarettes the entire time instead of actually studying. I can just see Gregg emerging from some dark room Sunday morning with that team sheet in his hand thinking he’s stumbled onto something, when in reality it’s just a bunch gibberish.
El Floppo
Footballguy
CR was losing at home to EL Salvador yesterday and needed some late heroics to get the three points. So I see your point there... but they also tend to step up vs the US, especially at home- so we'll see how things look on Wed.
I just posted about it- but even our A team hasn't shown they can dictate a game, and tbh I haven't seen that from GGG and this formation. I fully expect this young team to struggle away in Concacaf... it's a consistently very difficult region for away games. If not, Mexico would walk away with this every cycle. But even with better players across the field, the US ends up being reactive and scrambling to fill holes, rather than pro-actively imposing itself. That's what has me most concerned- even at home to a decent, but not better side like Canada.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Sarge isn't the answer to any of these. But I'm sure I can come up with a Sarge related trivia question just for TripItUp.
he had a solid year at some point... it wasn't 2019? cripes. not Jozy. not some random dude like Amon.
oh... wait- JMo?
damn. if so, :( . imagine him instead of nips out there... similar work rate, a little less foot skills in general, but WAY more foot skills when it counts on the final ball, and more pace... at least it used to be that way.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
GGG made an interesting comment in his postgame which shows the heart of the problem. Effectively he's expecting us to get down one side (6 to an 8 to an OB or wing, etc) and then have the OB/wing cross in to the CF and wing making a far post run. I've pointed this out repeatedly, but that's fairly easily defended if the opposition knows it's coming and required both the 6 to get it to the 8 and the 8 to either square to an OB making a run or turn to get the ball to the wing. It's very static and requires an 8 actually willing to turn. It also isolates the other side of the field (how many times do we actually switch the field?). If we do actually get the ball into a crossing position, how many times have we actually seen that weak side wing make that far post run?
Some of this is players (Llegett can't be played if he won't turn), but a lot of this is this tactical setup which almost by definition leaves guys isolated and static if the opposition is organized.
El Floppo
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Musah and Swag both have this ability and flashed it plenty vs Jam. But it also worked because Aaronson and Nips were busting their asses switching sides and finding those seams out wide or between CB and FB- not static, and that helped open up the field and the eventual FB or CMF overlaps. I'd add that by setting the defensive press higher and the CMFs doing a fantastic job with their spacing, the US was getting the ball back further up the field and putting Jam immediately on the back foot a lot of the night.
Musah, amidst the giveaways, was doing this vs Panama last night and creating the best opportunities for the US going forward when he did. But as you say, last night the MFs were back to being static, as were the CMFs, and more often than not after beating a guy and charging into space he took 3, 4, 5 too many touches waiting for that run or space to open up, which rarely/never did. TBF, I noticed Weah make a few nice runs into space and just not get the ball- either from Musah or Acosta/Lletget.
eta: and tbf to that gameplan... how many times have we seen the person getting the ball on the wing cross the ball to the first defender and not hit their runners in the box? it's shambolic- even from our world class players.
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Unsaid in all this is that crossing is the worst possible way to score from open play these days.
El Floppo
Footballguy
wha? I don't know this one.
but especially if the cross consistently goes to the first defender.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Believe it or not, Sargent has 5 career USMNT goals. 2 of them were in 2018. 3 of them in 2019. None since :(
cripes. not Jozy. not some random dude like Amon.
oh... wait- JMo?
damn. if so, :( . imagine him instead of nips out there... similar work rate, a little less foot skills in general, but WAY more foot skills when it counts on the final ball, and more pace... at least it used to be that way.
El Floppo
Footballguy
that's not so hot. even with everything else he does... nope.
is it JMorris?
I'm blanking otherwise.
gianmarco
Footballguy
encaitar
Footballguy
It's easy to forget how good he was for us in 2019, but I remember many arguing he should've been our POTY over Pulisic in 2019.
Man it'd be nice to have a fully healthy Morris among our wingers. He wouldn't likely start over CP and Gio, but he wouldn't be near the step down that Nips is.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Yeah simply getting to the byline by advancing down one side and crossing is a fairly low xG activity (effectively the central defense can handle that...think to what Leicester's defensive tactics during their run). Much more effective is switching the point of attack. That may lead to a cross as the final ball in, but the switching should have made space in the central defense. You want to have to make defenders make decisions. We aren't doing that (and its actually the reverse since we're relying on our "creativity" to produce non-existent space.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yup. Good CB pairing and goalie good in the air eats those up all day long. Movement in the box, through balls, counter attacks, and inside forwards cutting onto their strong foot are better xG.
gianmarco
Footballguy
As we are far enough along now....
--Jesus Ferreira has only played 65 minutes this year. In the 7-0 win in January against T&T, he bagged 2 goals and 3 assists. His rate is actually higher than Pepi's as a result.
-- Zardes has 10 career assists. Pulisic has 9. Right after those 2 is none other than....DeAndre Yedlin with 8. Beyond that, we don't have much in terms of career assists. Nips has 5. Aaronson and Ream have 4. That's your top 6. It's bare.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
It's a young, inexperienced team. We should also temper our criticism of losing a CONCACAF away game in light of that fact.
gianmarco
Footballguy
No doubt. And there's been a LOT of rotation.
We've had TWENTY different players score a goal in 2021. And we still have 3 matches left to go.
Back in 2019, it was only 13.
2018? 7 guys.
Even in 2014, when we were in the World Cup, it was only 11.
encaitar
Footballguy
Should've gotten that first one. I remember us all geeking out for Jesus after that game.
I'd never have guessed Yedlin, but it makes sense. Playing FB and throwing in crosses... plus he's one of our current most capped players. Man that's a sad assist leader list though.
gianmarco
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Lletget in a nutshell. He even had TWO options on the left. Bello was coming up wide open and Weah could have received it as well. Lletget never even considered that side and immediately turned back.
Can't succeed when your MFers aren't on the same page.
kneeshooter
Footballguy
Panama is not good though, ranked 68th right between Congo and United Arab Emirates. They weren't terribly impressive, the right lineup takes that game. And a good chunk of the starting line up last night was neither young nor inexperienced and that's the problem. We've seen them before.
El Floppo
Footballguy
or hit an earlier cross- not to the end line. but it always needs to clear the first defender or there's no point.
IME, getting the ball wide and putting the ball back in is usually a decent way of cracking a defense. But it can't always be linear- straight down the flank and then over.. yeah, that's the easiest to defend.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Also, with all these changes to the lineup....
I just looked at Netherlands who played Gibraltar, for example. Virgil Van Dijk played the entire 90 today in their 6-0 win in the group which they are leading. He also played the full 90 3 days earlier against Latvia. And he plays for Liverpool as a full time starter with league and CL play.
I looked at Argentina and Messi also goes the full 90.
These guys are older, too.
I think GGG needs to reconsider how much he really needs to keep resting these guys. Let them play.
I just looked at Netherlands who played Gibraltar, for example. Virgil Van Dijk played the entire 90 today in their 6-0 win in the group which they are leading. He also played the full 90 3 days earlier against Latvia. And he plays for Liverpool as a full time starter with league and CL play.
I looked at Argentina and Messi also goes the full 90.
These guys are older, too.
I think GGG needs to reconsider how much he really needs to keep resting these guys. Let them play.
El Floppo
Footballguy
fifa rankings are not an accurate determiner for an away WCQ in CONCACAF.
I mentioned earlier- Mexico should be winning every away game easily as the perpetual top ranked team in the region if that was the case.
and that's not to say that they're a particularly good team (I will say this has been as well-organized a squad as I can remember from them, even if they're not necessarily as talented as previous teams). but at home, against the US in WCQ... it's a different beast.
El Floppo
Footballguy
huh. that's a bit of a shock... Gibraltar <<<<< Panama. And those Euro minnows are nothing like Concacaf Hex/Oct games. Messi at least is up against it most games in Conmebol.
but they're both going all three games? maybe we ARE being too careful with our kids.
TripItUp
Footballguy
A couple of pet peeves regarding excuses made for Berhalter
1) People making excuses for Berhalter because he has a "young team."
My Response: These kids are good enough to play for some of the world's top sides but they aren't good enough for El Salvador and Panama?...that's bull####.
2) The bull#### downplaying of away losses and draws because playing away in CONCACAF has been historically difficult.
My response: Also a bull#### excuse, this isn't your grandfather's talent pool. We should at the very least have higher expectations than we did 20 years ago because the talent pool is twice as good.
1) People making excuses for Berhalter because he has a "young team."
My Response: These kids are good enough to play for some of the world's top sides but they aren't good enough for El Salvador and Panama?...that's bull####.
2) The bull#### downplaying of away losses and draws because playing away in CONCACAF has been historically difficult.
My response: Also a bull#### excuse, this isn't your grandfather's talent pool. We should at the very least have higher expectations than we did 20 years ago because the talent pool is twice as good.
CONMEBOL teams refused to release their EPL players early - saying they were called up to play 3 games this window.
As you said, a bit more competitive, but still, when you are playing for a WC qualification (and you missed the previous cycle) - you should not take any games fro granted until you have qualified.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Your response is bull####. It's not substantive. It offers no solutions. It's the rhetorical equivalent of throwing your soiled diaper at the wall. You want to know why people give you #### on here, it's because you don't offer any insight. You just whine and complain and say it's not good enough.
Moe.
Footballguy
Seriously @TripItUp, this thread, the college football thread, and the NBA thread are the only reasons I still come here. Please add something to the discussion or at least be funny every one in awhile. I don’t want to have to ignore people in this thread, it ruins the flow and I love reading this place during matches. Please be better.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I don't know where this is coming from. You and a few other posters asking me to stop posting my criticism, and I give reasoning for the criticism.
Others are providing criticism...why am I any different?
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TripItUp
Footballguy
It absolutely is substantive and unfortunately, it appears to be unique thought.
And I have provided a solution, it's getting a manager that can appropriately lead this incredibly talented pool of players.
What the hell is going on in this thread?
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TripItUp
Footballguy
Hmmm...maybe I'm a little to direct and it's perceived as abrasive or something. I find it very odd.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Again, what manager? And how should he set up the team? What tactics are you looking for? Be specific. And explain how you expect a manager to implement these tactical changes in the middle of World Cup qualifying when he'll have a few days of camp for each window over the next five months or so.
gianmarco
Footballguy
If you're hearing the same thing from multiple people, then maybe it is you. Just think about that.
This is not the first time.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I don't care that you're abrasive. I just don't think you know a lick about the game.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I post the criticism first, before the game. And then after the game, everybody starts parroting the criticism that I and a few others had already made. Furthermore, ,my criticisms echo those of many others on social media etc...it's not like I'm the only person with these critiques.
I guess I'll just be less critical and pretend GGG is killing it here in the FFA. I can do that. I'm not here to ruffle feathers or make the conversation less enjoyable for others.
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Moe.
Footballguy
Dude plenty of people in here are critical of GGG. You’ve been reading TLEF and Sammy’s posts, right? They are probably two of the more values posters in here and they clearly don’t think Gregg is good enough. Try reading TLEF’s response to my post, and some of Sammy’s post which are focused on tactics, and see if you can tell the difference between those and the kind of stuff you normally post
Moe.
Footballguy
It’s not that you are abrasive, it’s just that you don’t seem to really know what you are talking about. Which is totally fine! Definitely not a prerequisite for participation. I’m certainly no tactician and don’t pretend to be and I post in here all the time. It’s just that ignorance and confidence are usually a bad combo. Maybe ask more questions and try to learn some things from those who are more knowledgeable.
We are really lucky to have this USMNT community on this particular board, it’s normally not like this with so many smart people who are willing to share their knowledge and allow for nuance, so perhaps we are overly protective of it.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, I mean, I should probably look at more teams and more players, but...
VVD is older. He's coming off an injury. He's a star player on an elite team who plays every game. They are leading their group. They had the game easily. The dropoff from him to their backups is not as significant. Gibralter <<<< Panama, like you said. And so there's like 6+ reasons why he should be coming off the field compared to our guys and still doesn't while our guys do (or don't even play).
Look at Italy. They were playing in the 3rd place game and still played most of their starters this weekend.
Brazil is easily ahead in Conmebol. Jesus, for example, goes 70+ in both games so far.
I pulled up Poland in the last set of qualifiers in September. Lewandowski played in all 3 games and only subbed out in the 2nd game after 45 minutes against San Marino after bagging 2 goals and being up 4-0.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Berhalter may have over complicated it again. But that wasn't a new formation or playing anyone out of position. It was our usual 4-3-3 with a lot of players who know their role.
At some point the XI we put out there just have to play better. I haven't seen the stats yet, but I don't remember a threatening shot in 100 minutes of the game. There were a lot of toothless and weak individual performances out there.
At some point the XI we put out there just have to play better. I haven't seen the stats yet, but I don't remember a threatening shot in 100 minutes of the game. There were a lot of toothless and weak individual performances out there.
