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US Men's National Team (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Premier
- Start date
gianmarco
Footballguy
To be fair, Zardes and Weah never got a chance to show they belong (tonight, that is). Otherwise, have to agree.
Worm
slimy ninja
TripItUp
Footballguy
here goes the media putting this on the players.
Why is the media protecting Berhalter? Is everybody sucking the Federation teet?
TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Doing some brief research, Stewart has been relatively complimentary of Greg, but most of those comments were in 2019 and 2020.
Nevertheless, it appears they have a strong relationship which means we are ####ed.
Which may mean we have to get Stewart fired if we want Berhalter gone. Just like corporate America, Keep firing up to the top until you fix the problem.
Nevertheless, it appears they have a strong relationship which means we are ####ed.
Which may mean we have to get Stewart fired if we want Berhalter gone. Just like corporate America, Keep firing up to the top until you fix the problem.
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Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
“Dropped point” standings - Matchday 5:
Mexico 0
USA -1
Canada -2
Panama -3
Costa Rica -5
El Salvador -6
Honduras -6
Jamaica -7
Mexico 0
USA -1
Canada -2
Panama -3
Costa Rica -5
El Salvador -6
Honduras -6
Jamaica -7
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yup. This was a chance for the US to keep pace. We didn't and the tactical naivete from Berhalter is showing.
prefontaine
Footballguy
Giving a few hours to reflect, I'm struck by the fact that in an era with 5 subs, the 3 players who I felt played the worst in the 1h - Bello, Acosta, and Lletget - all ended up playing 90.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Only way to rest the players that will make a difference in the 3rd game.
Either Berhalter wrote this game off as "maybe steal a point" or he's just really really dumb with his tactical selections.
Does anyone think Tata would have played it this way?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I mean the decision to not start Adams without Swag is the start. For a team that still relies on the 6 to initiate the offense, you either need Adams or your best other 2 MFs. To have neither is negligence and if he think Llegett is the next man up, we’ll he hasn’t been for awhile now.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Bello was horrible.
This leads me to believe Dest is more dinged up than we thought. Nobody else to play LB... other than Acosta, I suppose... since he didn't want to bring in somebody versatile, like Scally.
that Lletget stayed in there instead of trying out LDLT when you needed to chase a goal... ugh. Hell- give Hoppe a run down a goal- why not? Somebody mentioned they saw Lletget tracking runners- I guess that's something, but I didn't really notice it, tbh- and he certainly wasn't picking up any second balls on either side of the ball.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
:X
Did not have high hopes for this game, but thought we might get away 0-0 or even 1-0 early on. Such a sorry display. I could barely get fired up about the ref blowing the whistle right at +7 despite all the nonsense, as it seemed like he could have let the clock run to 110:00 without the US getting a decent chance. Don't understand Adams for Musah at all, even though Musah was very meh in the first half.
What is up with our set piece defense?? I feel like this used to be a strength of the US, but this qualifying window every one seems sphincter tightening.
Really need to win Wednesday now, or it's going to be a long stressful wait until November's tough window.
Did not have high hopes for this game, but thought we might get away 0-0 or even 1-0 early on. Such a sorry display. I could barely get fired up about the ref blowing the whistle right at +7 despite all the nonsense, as it seemed like he could have let the clock run to 110:00 without the US getting a decent chance. Don't understand Adams for Musah at all, even though Musah was very meh in the first half.
What is up with our set piece defense?? I feel like this used to be a strength of the US, but this qualifying window every one seems sphincter tightening.
Really need to win Wednesday now, or it's going to be a long stressful wait until November's tough window.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Player ratings
I read a couple other that seemed way off. One had Bello and Zimmerman rated the same. Yeah, no, not really.
These ratings seemed more in line with what many us said in here.
Out of all of our poor performances, this one in particular feels like it falls almost fully on GGG. Yeah, ultimately the players have to play, but they were set up to fail tonight and the whole approach was a catastrophe waiting to happen. I know it's a broken record here, but I'd be more forgiving of this if it was earlier on in his tenure. It's not. He's made mistakes before, seemingly learned from them, and then tonight happens.
He's not trustworthy despite how good his record has been so far. Aside from the picking the lineups, it's looking more and more like this team is winning in spite of him instead of because of him.
I read a couple other that seemed way off. One had Bello and Zimmerman rated the same. Yeah, no, not really.
These ratings seemed more in line with what many us said in here.
Out of all of our poor performances, this one in particular feels like it falls almost fully on GGG. Yeah, ultimately the players have to play, but they were set up to fail tonight and the whole approach was a catastrophe waiting to happen. I know it's a broken record here, but I'd be more forgiving of this if it was earlier on in his tenure. It's not. He's made mistakes before, seemingly learned from them, and then tonight happens.
He's not trustworthy despite how good his record has been so far. Aside from the picking the lineups, it's looking more and more like this team is winning in spite of him instead of because of him.
gianmarco
Footballguy
3 things we learned
I found this part interesting as a potential reason for him punting this game:
The truth about the new octagonal round of CONCACAF’s World Cup qualifying is this: each game (especially away from home) carries a little less weight than the former six-team format. With seven home games, anyone can qualify for the World Cup by winning all (or, maybe just most) of their home games while doing very little (or nothing) on the road.
I found this part interesting as a potential reason for him punting this game:
The truth about the new octagonal round of CONCACAF’s World Cup qualifying is this: each game (especially away from home) carries a little less weight than the former six-team format. With seven home games, anyone can qualify for the World Cup by winning all (or, maybe just most) of their home games while doing very little (or nothing) on the road.
TripItUp
Footballguy
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encaitar
Footballguy
I think GGG definitely needed to make some subs to ensure we were ready for Wednesday, but he absolutely went overboard. We needed 4-5 subs with some guys being ready to come off after 60. By subbing 7 guys he effectively destroyed every bit of cohesiveness that was built in the last game.
The worst part though, was not using the 5 subs quicker when it was obvious we were getting overrun in midfield. Even more egregious to keep Lletget out there when he was one of the main problems in our lack of midfield control.
The worst part though, was not using the 5 subs quicker when it was obvious we were getting overrun in midfield. Even more egregious to keep Lletget out there when he was one of the main problems in our lack of midfield control.
encaitar
Footballguy
The bolded is what frustrates me most about GGG. I think the US fan group was near unanimous in their desire to see Scally get a call up based on his play and GGG refused based on it "being hard to integrate new guys in such a short camp". Then we see the guy he did choose instead show that he has absolutely no reason to be on that field right now. I just wish GGG was more of a proactive guy than a reactive guy. Guarantee we see Scally in November no matter what form he's in.
Moe.
Footballguy
Overthought it for sure, definitely his favorite thing to do. We just need everyone healthy so these teams start to pick themselves
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Moe.
Footballguy
I resolved to not even think about the Panama match again. Our manager got cute and we lost a WCQ match on the road in a really tight window - no need to stop the presses, that’s just what happens. Not saying we can’t be critical of Gregg, he was bad, but oh well. Canada dropped points at home to the worst team in the group, stuff happens. We’ll mop up against CR, get Gio healthy and be just fine for next month and beyond.
kneeshooter
Footballguy
I'm just not sure about this; logic would seem to dictate but it doesn't appear normal logic is being applied here. And it's not a MLS/Europe thing, Pepi/M Robinson/Turner have all turned out great performances and there is plenty of young MLS talent with potential that could be added that please all parties. We have hours of tape on the MLS "veterans" at this point and it should be glaringly obvious that they should not be starting or getting significant minutes in any games that matter.
kneeshooter
Footballguy
Man I wish I had your confidence. Fact is they've played 3 good half's out of 10 in this cycle so coach has a 30% success rate as I see it. If last night didn't open his eyes then nothing will.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Obviously no point in crying over it, but the mistakes were so blatant and obvious (even to a complete novice like myself) that it just screams that the guy is in completely over his head. Its not monday morning QB'ing either. Everyone predicted what would happen the second the lineup came out.
The fact that Greg couldn't see that his lineup choice would result in a complete lack of midfield control, back-line continuity AND service to the forwards is a MASSIVE red flag. It wasn't a minor miscalculation or an overly ambitious formation change that went wrong....it was a complete and total misunderstanding of the shortcomings of the players he picked (both individually and as a group) and what the likely results would be.
You're already down your 2 most creative players before the window even stated. Your best remaining box to box midfielder (Snacks) is out. Your only capable attacking LB is out. Your best passing CB is out. (Brooks has his own issues obviously, but still) You've got a goalie that can't play with his feet.
And his solution? He takes out the following players....(in addition the guys he was already missing)
- The CF who has either created or scored your teams last SIX goals
- The guy who has been your best wing player the last 3 games
- The guy who has been your best CB for the past 4 months
- Your other starting fullback, whose main strength is attacking
- The captain and soul of your midfield.
What in the world did he think was going to happen???!? If we were going to insist on rotating the squad yesterday, (and sat all the guys he chose to sit) this is the lineup we COULD have had out there.....
Turner
Yedlin Richards Zimmerman Scaly
Acosta
LDLT Musah
Weah Zardes Hoppe
That's an infinitely better team than the one Greg fielded (although I'm cheating a little bit with Scaly)
AAABatteries
Footballguy
My take is similar to Moe's. Also, from a glass half full perspective - if we concede we've played 30% good halves and we are still sitting 2nd then I'll take it.
If Gio and CP were fit for Jamaica then last night we probably see Aaronson start last night. For me the problem was the RB/LB and the midfield. We really missed Snacks and Adams. Thought the CBs and Turner were fine.
My two biggest complaints from last night (outside of questionable lineup) was the marking on that corner. Horrible and almost gifted them a goal. Second was we didn't have the intensity and didn't seem up for it. Not sure if that is more being so young or quality or mental toughness but I definitely expected more of the guys that were out there.
On the lineup I think the big mistakes were Moore over Yedlin, Bello (although are you going to play Jedi 3 full games?) and Lleget. I would have gone Adams, Acosta and Musah. But honestly nobody played great - I'm not confident if you swap out 3-4 guys in the starting lineup we don't see the same result.
TLEF316
Footballguy
If Panama wasn't a red country, I'm guessing Robinson would have played. But they wanted to appease Fulham by not bringing him along and forcing a 10 day quarantine upon his return to England.
I "get it". A little goodwill for the next time they need a favor.
Agree to disagree regarding swapping out a few guys. I really think there is a cumulative effect when you play multiple "no offense" guys at the same time. I honestly think even swapping out Lleget for Luca and Nips for Hoppe could have turned the tide. I think having Luca (or even Busio) in there would have made a world of difference for Musah in the first half. He had to do way too much.
I know I'm asking a lot for them to roll out guys like Richards (or Scaly, if he'd been there) for the first time in an away qualifier. But based on the lineup we picked, we weren't going for the win anyway. I'd rather lose and get those guys experience than lose with Lleget, Nips and Bello.
Agree that the CB's weren't really the problem (although I dont think McKenzie was very good)
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Here's the issue (and has been for awhile), the only 6 we really have that can play GGGs system is Adams. If he's off we look pedestrian especially if the CBs can't help the 6 who is playing really break the press. He then proceeds to play our 2 worst passing CBs and Acosta (along with a guy in Llegett who apparently can only look backwards). To your point...of course that isn't going to work.
If the system only works with a near world class player (and even then it is choppy), it isn't a system you should be using.
Oh and we didn't look fantastic in that first half against Jamaica, so I only have the good halves as 20%.
I don't think that is an issue - so long as the player has been double-jabbed.
I know Spurs players who are in South America will not have to quarantine this time - but since they play late Thursday night for their countries, they will probably not make it back to England in time to play this weekend.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Per a bunch of articles (I saw it on the athletic, but its paywalled, so I cant link)
Steffen and Robinson are not traveling so that neither has to quarantine upon returning to their club teams in the U.K.
Panama is on the U.K.’s COVID-19 “red-list.” Players leaving the U.K. and traveling to red-list countries are required to isolate themselves from all individuals outside of their club bubble for 10 days upon returning to their British teams, though they are allowed to train and play and matches in that period. By not traveling to Panama, Steffen and Robinson will avoid that quarantine.
Not sure if vax status is an issue with Robinson.
gianmarco
Footballguy
100% this. Especially if that player doesn't have a history of being available every game.
And, while I get these guys play lots of minutes for their clubs, EVERY country is dealing with heavy fixture congestion. Players still play a lot. That's why you have 5 subs. Start the best lineup and take guys out that are fatigued, especially if they are putting a lot of work in. But you don't wholesale change an entire lineup. When you're in the World Cup, you play multiple games with little rest. Are we going to do the same thing there? No one else does.
kneeshooter
Footballguy
Couldn't agree more. We should have come firing out of the gate and beat up on lesser teams. @ El Sal, home vs CAN and last night were lost opportunities, only got 2 pts instead of what should have been 7 minimum. Can you imagine beating CR on Wed to be at 16 pts? Could have effectively punched our ticket and used the rest of qualifying to solidify the roster and get much needed experience for younger players.
Instead we have our toughest 4 games still to come (@CAN, @CR, both MEX games) and will have to rely on no screwups on the rest to qualify. Given what happened four years ago the mindset is stupefying, I just don't understand the complacency.
TripItUp
Footballguy
#USMNT minutes under Berhalter:
1. Arriola 1,704
2. Ream 1,681
3. Lletget 1,661
4. McKennie 1,608
5. Long 1,534
6. Zardes 1,361
7. Roldan 1,260
8. Pulisic 1,258
9. Acosta 1,220
10. Cannon 1,161
11. M. Robinson 1,077
12. Zimmerman 1,059
13. Yueill 925
14. Dest 879
15. Sargent 874
1. Arriola 1,704
2. Ream 1,681
3. Lletget 1,661
4. McKennie 1,608
5. Long 1,534
6. Zardes 1,361
7. Roldan 1,260
8. Pulisic 1,258
9. Acosta 1,220
10. Cannon 1,161
11. M. Robinson 1,077
12. Zimmerman 1,059
13. Yueill 925
14. Dest 879
15. Sargent 874
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Two Ticos, including Joel Campbell, out fir the game on Wednesday fir COVID reasons. They’ve recalled Saborio and Bolanos from the Cretaceous period for the game.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Lots of variables but I think it's undeniable we played a very weakened side. I won't go as far as to say throw the game away because these guys are professionals and I think they rightfully wouldn't take to kindly to that. I think GGG could have played a stronger side and a slightly weaker one midweek and gotten better results than what he did. But I'm not nearly as upset as most of you. If it totally backfires and we don't get 3 points against CR then I'll say it's a huge screw-up - as it is I see it as just a pretty bad one that he didn't need to make.
One factor here may be that Panama appears to be decent to good while CR is not. Not sure how GGG sees it but he almost played it the other way around.
gianmarco
Footballguy
A little USMNT trivia with our current and recent squads to take our minds off last night.
1) Brenden Aaronson currently leads all USMNT guys in combined G/A in 2021 with a number of 7 (4 G and 3 A). He's done this in 583 minutes of play, or averaging 1 G/A per 65 minutes of play.
After him there are 3 guys tied at 5 G/A. Name them and rank them in order of G/A per minute played.
2) In 2019 (2020 had very little international soccer played), there were 4 players that had at least 7 G/A over the course of the year. Those were 7, 8, 8, and 11. Name the 4 players and who led the team with 11?
3) On the current squad that have played minutes this year, there are only 3 players that have more than 5 career assists for the USMNT. One with 8, one with 9, and one with 10. Name those 3.
1) Brenden Aaronson currently leads all USMNT guys in combined G/A in 2021 with a number of 7 (4 G and 3 A). He's done this in 583 minutes of play, or averaging 1 G/A per 65 minutes of play.
After him there are 3 guys tied at 5 G/A. Name them and rank them in order of G/A per minute played.
2) In 2019 (2020 had very little international soccer played), there were 4 players that had at least 7 G/A over the course of the year. Those were 7, 8, 8, and 11. Name the 4 players and who led the team with 11?
3) On the current squad that have played minutes this year, there are only 3 players that have more than 5 career assists for the USMNT. One with 8, one with 9, and one with 10. Name those 3.
encaitar
Footballguy
1) The only one I "KNOW" is Pepi and he has to be the quickest in G/A per minute. Gio second and Lletget third?
2) Gotta be Pulisic and Jordan Morris for sure... Zardes? He had a bunch of "Zardes goals we all laughed about that year." Weston would be my fourth guess. Pulisic with 11?
3)Pulisic for sure. Zardes? Feel like he's played enough games up front that I can be confident in that answer... Snacks? I don't know if he's played enough games to have that many, but I can't think of anyone else.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
1) You got 2 of the 3. And no, Pepi isn't the fastest in G/A per minute
2) Good work. But Pulisic isn't the one with 11.
3) You have 2 of 3. The third will be surprising.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I mean, Christian Pulisic and Gio Reyna played in El Salvador and we failed to create many chances there (though we still should have won that game, which we can't say for the Panama game).
Every road game is going to be hard. That's qualifying. It's easy to say that you expect better and demand accountability and all that bull####, but none of that is going to magically make this team go and do things that no other USMNT has really done with any consistency.
And you can't just point to "talent" as being something that changes these results. Nobody questions Yunus Musah's talent. But he was bad. So was Weah. Heck, Turner was pretty bad last night (and I worry that Panama has exposed him and everybody is going to pump those Olimpico style corners in now). No excuses.
Maybe LDT would have been the answer. Maybe Dest on the left (as I think Bello was the absolute worst of a bad bunch), but the problems I saw were more fundamental than tactical. The team just didn't play hard and didn't play crisp. They didn't move the ball quickly and decisively when they had it, and they didn't win the ball (with the exception of Zimm who I thought was mostly fine again) when they didn't have it. I don't know what magic button I can fault Gregg for not pressing.
