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Has any RB in history ever come back from a torn Achillies (1 Viewer)

Hoss_Cartwright

Hoss_Cartwright

Footballguy
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.

 
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'Hoosier16 said:
How many (young) RBs have had torn a achilles?
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Good question, but I bet there have been a few throughout history. There was one by a Giants rookie Andre Brown and he has never amounted to anything after his injury. Of course he wasn't a stud coming out of college.
 
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A third of NFL players who rupture their Achilles tendon never play again. The rest are significantly less effectiveness and durable. These are facts, gleaned from an actual medical journal, The Lower Extremity Review:

Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury. In the three seasons following their return, those 21 players saw significant decreases in games played and power ratings compared to the three seasons preceding the injury.

This study is being shared far and wide around the Lions-y corners of the Internet, and fans are mutually crying in their coffee this morning knowing that poor Mikel Leshoures career is over before it started. No elite running back has ever returned to top form after this kind of injury, the pundits are saying, and the fans are hanging their heads and repeating that line to each other.

Days like today are why I started this blog.

A study says that Achilles tears are all but a death sentence for NFL players, eh? Well, lets have a closer look at that study. In fact, the LER article cites several individual studies, but primarily draws conclusions from one published in 2002:

Let's reduce this to bullet points:

•The study covered 31 players playing from fourteen to nine years ago.

•The average age of the players at the time of injury was 29.

•The average career length at the time of injury was six years.

•10 of the 31 players studied did not return to the NFL.

•Those players who returned did so after an average of 11 months out.

•Affected players’ production steeply declined over 3 post-rehab seasons.

In 1997, there were 30 teams in the NFL. Multiply that by 53, and that’s 1,590 active roster spots. Assume 15% turnover (that’s conservative, 2010’s churn was 20.04%), plus teams 31 and 32 joining the league during the study, and you have roughly 2,800 players in your data set. With just 31 rupturing an Achilles tendon, that’s a very rare injury, affecting only 1.1%.

The average player in this study was 29, and the average career length was six years. Nobody on the Lions exactly matches that. The Lions have two 29-year-olds with seven years of experience: Stephen Peterman and Isaiah Ekejiuba. The 29-year-olds with eight or more years are Nate Burleson, Nathan Vasher, Erik Coleman, and Don Muhlbach. The Lions only had one 28-year-old with six years of experience, Tony Scheffler . . . until they signed Mike Bell and Jerome Harrison to try and replace Leshoure; both of them are 28-year-old six-year veterans.

How many of those guys above could pop an Achilles, take eleven months to rehab, secure a starting spot, and then stay just as productive over the next three years as they were for their first six or seven? None, because the average NFL career only lasts six years—and that’s going by the rosier league estimate. How many studies have we seen proving NFL players—especially tailbacks—hit the wall at 30, injuries or no? All this study has done is point out what we already knew: the shelf life of most NFL players is short, and major injuries are a major obstacle. It has nothing to do with the Achilles tendon.

I don’t have access to injury data, but I’d bet you a dollar that these figures would look exactly the same for ruptured ACLs, fractured patellas, torn biceps, broken femurs, or any other season-ending injury sustained by NFL players. None of this data is specifically relevant to a 21-year-old rookie in the best shape of his life, after a college career where he only carried a full load for one season. No elite running back in recent memory has come back from a ruptured Achilles at full speed, because no elite running back has recently ruptured an Achilles.

The LER article itself repeatedly notes that there’s a huge variety of therapies, rehab schedules, and outcomes, and no set-in-stone way to quickly return to full speed. After sweeping generalizations in the beginning, by the end it all but shrugs its shoulders and goes “Eh, who knows? I guess it depends.” If it depends, then Mikel Leshoure has every possible indicator pointing to success: youth, a light previous workload, no prior Achilles pain, and a long track record of determination to succeed. This is a logical double-edged sword: perhaps Leshoure’s rare combination of size, speed, and agility has already doomed his tendons, just as Aaron Gibson’s shoulder joints could never quite handle the torque their muscles were generating. But right now, the “facts” being used to eulogize Mikel Leshoure’s career simply don’t stand up to examination.

Grieve for the loss of his contributions this season. Grieve for the pain he and his mother must feel as his dream is deferred. But don’t grieve for Mikel Leshoure’s career before it’s begun, and don’t you dare write him off.

http://www.thelionsinwinter.com/2011/08/lies-damned-lies-mikel-leshoures-career.html

 
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I've seen reported several places that Curtis Martin ruptured his Achilles as a sophomore in college. But it's enough pre-Internet that I don't necessarily believe it. He did end his sophomore year due to an Achilles injury, but it may have just been soreness similar to what Megatron and J Stewart have played through. Does anyone know for sure?

 
Rotoworld commented last year that they could not identify a player that returned to form after a ruptured Achilles'. Taken from a comment about LenDale White:

May. 12, 2011 - 6:18 p.m. ET

LenDale White is now running, eight months after surgery to repair his ruptured right Achilles' tendon.

White is still not ready for "explosive" drills, though. He was roster fodder last summer, prior to the injury, so it's hard to like his chances of contributing in 2011. We're not aware of any NFL running back successfully recapturing pre-injury form in the case of a ruptured Achilles. The new Broncos regime figures cut ties as soon as the lockout is lifted.

That being said, I don't think that there have been a ton of top RBs that have ruptured their Achilles' before, so that could partly explain why there haven't been many post-surgery success stories.

 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
A third of NFL players who rupture their Achilles tendon never play again. The rest are significantly less effectiveness and durable. These are facts, gleaned from an actual medical journal, The Lower Extremity Review:

Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury. In the three seasons following their return, those 21 players saw significant decreases in games played and power ratings compared to the three seasons preceding the injury.

This study is being shared far and wide around the Lions-y corners of the Internet, and fans are mutually crying in their coffee this morning knowing that poor Mikel Leshoure’s career is over before it started. “No elite running back has ever returned to top form after this kind of injury,” the pundits are saying, and the fans are hanging their heads and repeating that line to each other.

Days like today are why I started this blog.

A study says that Achilles tears are all but a death sentence for NFL players, eh? Well, let’s have a closer look at that study. In fact, the LER article cites several individual studies, but primarily draws conclusions from one published in 2002:

Let's reduce this to bullet points:

•The study covered 31 players playing from fourteen to nine years ago.

•The average age of the players at the time of injury was 29.

•The average career length at the time of injury was six years.

•10 of the 31 players studied did not return to the NFL.

•Those players who returned did so after an average of 11 months out.

•Affected players’ production steeply declined over 3 post-rehab seasons.

In 1997, there were 30 teams in the NFL. Multiply that by 53, and that’s 1,590 active roster spots. Assume 15% turnover (that’s conservative, 2010’s churn was 20.04%), plus teams 31 and 32 joining the league during the study, and you have roughly 2,800 players in your data set. With just 31 rupturing an Achilles tendon, that’s a very rare injury, affecting only 1.1%.

The average player in this study was 29, and the average career length was six years. Nobody on the Lions exactly matches that. The Lions have two 29-year-olds with seven years of experience: Stephen Peterman and Isaiah Ekejiuba. The 29-year-olds with eight or more years are Nate Burleson, Nathan Vasher, Erik Coleman, and Don Muhlbach. The Lions only had one 28-year-old with six years of experience, Tony Scheffler . . . until they signed Mike Bell and Jerome Harrison to try and replace Leshoure; both of them are 28-year-old six-year veterans.

How many of those guys above could pop an Achilles, take eleven months to rehab, secure a starting spot, and then stay just as productive over the next three years as they were for their first six or seven? None, because the average NFL career only lasts six years—and that’s going by the rosier league estimate. How many studies have we seen proving NFL players—especially tailbacks—hit the wall at 30, injuries or no? All this study has done is point out what we already knew: the shelf life of most NFL players is short, and major injuries are a major obstacle. It has nothing to do with the Achilles tendon.

I don’t have access to injury data, but I’d bet you a dollar that these figures would look exactly the same for ruptured ACLs, fractured patellas, torn biceps, broken femurs, or any other season-ending injury sustained by NFL players. None of this data is specifically relevant to a 21-year-old rookie in the best shape of his life, after a college career where he only carried a full load for one season. No elite running back in recent memory has come back from a ruptured Achilles at full speed, because no elite running back has recently ruptured an Achilles.

The LER article itself repeatedly notes that there’s a huge variety of therapies, rehab schedules, and outcomes, and no set-in-stone way to quickly return to full speed. After sweeping generalizations in the beginning, by the end it all but shrugs its shoulders and goes “Eh, who knows? I guess it depends.” If it depends, then Mikel Leshoure has every possible indicator pointing to success: youth, a light previous workload, no prior Achilles pain, and a long track record of determination to succeed. This is a logical double-edged sword: perhaps Leshoure’s rare combination of size, speed, and agility has already doomed his tendons, just as Aaron Gibson’s shoulder joints could never quite handle the torque their muscles were generating. But right now, the “facts” being used to eulogize Mikel Leshoure’s career simply don’t stand up to examination.

Grieve for the loss of his contributions this season. Grieve for the pain he and his mother must feel as his dream is deferred. But don’t grieve for Mikel Leshoure’s career before it’s begun, and don’t you dare write him off.

http://www.thelionsi...res-career.html
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This is the study that gets brought up over and over, generally right after someone injures their achilles. The two huge problems with the study are that the average age at injury is 29 and that it is a 10 year old study evaluating 15 year old medicine. The average age is a problem in two ways. One, a 23 year old will heal better and faster than a 30 year old. And two, an uninjured 30 year old RB will perform dramatically worse than an uninjured 28 year old RB.Leshoure has a much better chance than anyone in that study.

 
In a way I think this thread title could be a bit deceptive. I'm not saying that is the intent. I think this is designed to talk about LeShoure but I believe it would be difficult to build a sample size large enough to draw many conclusions.

Andre Brown has been brought up. Similarities are in age as both suffered the injury in their rookie seasons. I think the similarities end there though.

I would suggest that anyone who has interest in this thread start to develop a list of RB that have had this injury to come up with something to evaluate.

I would add that the study was for players from 1997-20012 so it is data from a time frame of 10-15 years ago so medical advancements would also skew results.

 
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Let's remember that modern medicine is an improving graph line, not a flat one where past situations can be carried forward.

 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'Hoosier16 said:
How many (young) RBs have had torn a achilles?
Click to expand...
Good question, but I bet there have been a few throughout history. There was one by a Giants rookie Andre Brown and he has never amounted to anything after his injury. Of course he wasn't a stud coming out of college.
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Coughlin said he thinks Brown looked more explosive after recovering from his injury, but it's hard to measure his before and after since he got hurt in the preseason of his rookie year, and he has been on practice squads since his return from injury.
 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
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It is sad to think that LaShoure and Javid Best may never be the same. Lions are snakebit at the RB position.
 
Andre Brown is on the Giants Practice Squad, I believe. He looked much better than last year (2 years removed from the injury) in the preseason.

 
I did some research on the injury right after Leshoure's injury. I drafted him in one of my leagues and got pretty pissed once I heard the news.

With that said, what I read wasn't very promising. I read the article previously mentioned as well as the results of various other athletes from other sports. It wasn't pretty.

At best, I figured Leshoure would come back as a between the tackles plodder, good for 3 yards per carry and maybe a handful of TD's and be out of the league within a few years. For these reasons, I dropped him. No room on my roster for another average RB that I would probably never plug in to my lineup barring catastrophic injuries to my other RB's.

Ofcourse, this will probably come back to bite me in the ### and he'll be the next Terrell Davis. But I went with my gut so I have no regrets.

Oh! And my wife is a physical therapist. Said that is one of the worst things that can happen to an athlete.

Good luck to ya Leshoure.

 
Jim Miller had a torn Achilles and he has said on multiple occasions that he thinks Leshoure is going to be fine for this season let alone his career. Also, do we know for a fact that Leshoure's injury was a full rupture?

 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
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A guy named Curtis Martin did.
 
My belief on Leshoure still stands - if he fails in the NFL it won't be because of the Achilles.

 
'cstu said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
Click to expand...
A guy named Curtis Martin did.
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I do not believe that Martin ever had a torn Achilles, let alone returned from one.
 
'Warpig said:
I did some research on the injury right after Leshoure's injury. I drafted him in one of my leagues and got pretty pissed once I heard the news.

With that said, what I read wasn't very promising. I read the article previously mentioned as well as the results of various other athletes from other sports. It wasn't pretty.

At best, I figured Leshoure would come back as a between the tackles plodder, good for 3 yards per carry and maybe a handful of TD's and be out of the league within a few years. For these reasons, I dropped him. No room on my roster for another average RB that I would probably never plug in to my lineup barring catastrophic injuries to my other RB's.

Ofcourse, this will probably come back to bite me in the ### and he'll be the next Terrell Davis. But I went with my gut so I have no regrets.

Oh! And my wife is a physical therapist. Said that is one of the worst things that can happen to an athlete.

Good luck to ya Leshoure.
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Ditto. My wife advised me against trying to trade for him mid-season when I was kicking rocks for the future. Says he will never realize his full potential. What makes a case like this interesting is that we don't know how good he was going to be. For all we know he may have been the next Tatum Bell OR he may have been the next Eric Dickerson. And if he was the latter, he could come back at 80% and be great. Since he was a highly touted rookie, people seem to value him optimistically. Reality says, however, that it is far more likely that he comes back and is a journeyman RB that will flash from time to time and we will hear stories his entire career about what if.I think a very telling aspect of a conversation like this is that no one can readily think of a true success story with this injury where the athlete returns to pre-injury form. Regardless of a compilation of data that mentions 29 year old athletes a decade ago, etc, when you see that this is a rare injury (0.93% of NFL athletes), that tells us that while the data we are trying to compare to a 23 year old may not match exactly, the underlying statement is to focus that this does not get diagnosed often and it doesn't end well for the athlete; otherwise, as FF junkies, we would all immediately think of someone who has recovered fully.

And the fact that we don't have a success story to hang our hats on looms ominous. When you read the medical description of what actually happens to the tendons when they rupture and the challenges to repair them, etc, and then you think of what it is exactly that a RB relies on from his knee down to his foot, its hard to be optimistic.

 
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'Shutout said:
'Warpig said:
I did some research on the injury right after Leshoure's injury. I drafted him in one of my leagues and got pretty pissed once I heard the news.

With that said, what I read wasn't very promising. I read the article previously mentioned as well as the results of various other athletes from other sports. It wasn't pretty.

At best, I figured Leshoure would come back as a between the tackles plodder, good for 3 yards per carry and maybe a handful of TD's and be out of the league within a few years. For these reasons, I dropped him. No room on my roster for another average RB that I would probably never plug in to my lineup barring catastrophic injuries to my other RB's.

Ofcourse, this will probably come back to bite me in the ### and he'll be the next Terrell Davis. But I went with my gut so I have no regrets.

Oh! And my wife is a physical therapist. Said that is one of the worst things that can happen to an athlete.

Good luck to ya Leshoure.
Click to expand...
Ditto. My wife advised me against trying to trade for him mid-season when I was kicking rocks for the future. Says he will never realize his full potential. What makes a case like this interesting is that we don't know how good he was going to be. For all we know he may have been the next Tatum Bell OR he may have been the next Eric Dickerson. And if he was the latter, he could come back at 80% and be great. Since he was a highly touted rookie, people seem to value him optimistically. Reality says, however, that it is far more likely that he comes back and is a journeyman RB that will flash from time to time and we will hear stories his entire career about what if.
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Exactly.Here is another article (pretty much the same as the others). But I like the charts and graphs this one uses. Not pretty.

Disclaimer - this is from between 1997 and 2002. Trying to find new breakthroughs in achilles recovery.

 
Accoring to this SITE, here were some notable folks that had Achilles' injuries. I don't know at won't point they had them in their careers, so I don't know if they "came back" or if they were "ever the same."

Dan Marino

Boris Becker

Elton Brand

Dominique Wilkens

Christian Laettner

Dan Dickau

Brandon Stokley

Lavar Arrington

Vinnie Testeverde

Donovan Bailey , the 100m gold medalist from the Atlanta Olympics

Washington Redskin Left tackle Jon Jansen

LA Laker captain Elgin Baylor

Two-time NCAA all-around gymnastics champion Courtney Kupets (one in 2003 and another on March 2008)

Defensive tackle Rien Long (Tennessee)

Philadelphia Eagle Derrick Burgess

Kostya Tszyu defended and retained his International Boxing Federation Junior Welterweight

Middle distance runner Kelly Holmes

San Diego Padre catcher Josh Bard

Raiders’ receiver Ronald Curry

New Jersey Net Vince Carter

 
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Wow. There really isn't a lot of new advances in achilles injuries.

I found this article from 2008. They say they have sped up recovery time, but nothing about it not being as career threatening. Sounds like there are numerous other issues that can pop up.

Here is the main guts of it:

But some tendonitis patients develop scar tissue on the tendon, or their tendon fibers weaken and develop microscopic tears, a condition called Achilles tendonosis. Fixing these problems can require invasive surgery and weeks to months of recovery.

Recently-introduced radio frequency technology can slash recovery time for some patients by using radio waves to stimulate healing in the tendon. The procedure requires smaller incisions to insert the wand-like radio frequency device. Smaller incisions mean less damage to skin and muscle, less pain, and lower risk of surgical infections. Patients recover faster.

Overuse, especially in athletes, can cause the Achilles tendon to tighten and pull so hard on the heel bone that a bone spur, or bump, develops. Shoes can rub against the spur and cause pain. In addition, a painful fluid-filled sac called a bursa can develop between the heel bone and the tendon. Traditionally, correcting this tightness involved severing the tendon, removing the bone spur or bursa, and then reattaching the tendon.

New arthroscopic techniques can provide a minimally invasive option to removing bone spurs and bursas without significant damage to the Achilles tendon. When the tendon does have to be surgically detached, new bone anchor constructs (screws that are drilled into the heel bone to secure the tendon and tissues) can reattach the tendon, minimizing the chance of a potentially painful knot on the back of the heel.

Achilles tendon ruptures are the most serious Achilles injuries. Most patients require surgery to decrease the likelihood of a re-rupture. Various techniques are available, and increasingly may include tissue grafts used as a bridge to link the severed tendon lengths. The graft provides a scaffold on which new tissue grows, increases the overall strength of the repair, and is usually absorbed by the body within a year.
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'David Yudkin said:
Accoring to this SITE, here were some notable folks that had Achilles' injuries. I don't know at won't point they had them in their careers, so I don't know if they "came back" or if they were "ever the same."

Dan Marino

Boris Becker

Elton Brand

Dominique Wilkens

Christian Laettner

Dan Dickau

Brandon Stokley

Lavar Arrington

Vinnie Testeverde

Donovan Bailey , the 100m gold medalist from the Atlanta Olympics

Washington Redskin Left tackle Jon Jansen

LA Laker captain Elgin Baylor

Two-time NCAA all-around gymnastics champion Courtney Kupets (one in 2003 and another on March 2008)

Defensive tackle Rien Long (Tennessee)

Philadelphia Eagle Derrick Burgess

Kostya Tszyu defended and retained his International Boxing Federation Junior Welterweight

Middle distance runner Kelly Holmes

San Diego Padre catcher Josh Bard

Raiders’ receiver Ronald Curry

New Jersey Net Vince Carter
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David Beckham suffered an achilles injury in 2010. Curious to see if his play fell off. Then again, guy is in his mid 30's.
 
'David Yudkin said:
'cstu said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
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A guy named Curtis Martin did.
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I do not believe that Martin ever had a torn Achilles, let alone returned from one.
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It doesn't say exactly what type of injury it was though.Link

When Martin arrived at the University of Pittsburgh, he was immediately compared to the former University of Pittsburgh great, Tony Dorsett. Martin was expected to be the player who would turn the University of Pittsburgh football around, but things did not turn out as planned. During his freshman year, Martin suffered a foot injury that kept him off the field and his sophomore year was cut short by an Achilles’ heel injury. Finally, in his junior season, Martin displayed the talent that had drawn so much attention from University of Pittsburgh fans only two years earlier. That year Martin ran for 1,132 yards behind an offensive line that was not impressive. Martin began his senior season well, running for 251 yards against Texas in the season opener. The next week, against Ohio University, Martin’s injury troubles revisited him as he was taken out of the game with an ankle injury which would bother him the rest of the season. Plagued by injury after injury, Martin’s college career was merely mediocre. Martin had the opportunity during his senior season to apply for a medical redshirt year of eligibility and stay in school for another year, but instead opted to enter the 1995 NFL draft. The fans and media thought that Martin was making an unwise decision, saying that he would be a low-round draft pick if he even got drafted. Little did they know what kind of history Martin would make in the National Football League.
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'cstu said:
'David Yudkin said:
'cstu said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
Click to expand...
A guy named Curtis Martin did.
Click to expand...
I do not believe that Martin ever had a torn Achilles, let alone returned from one.
Click to expand...
It doesn't say exactly what type of injury it was though.Link

When Martin arrived at the University of Pittsburgh, he was immediately compared to the former University of Pittsburgh great, Tony Dorsett. Martin was expected to be the player who would turn the University of Pittsburgh football around, but things did not turn out as planned. During his freshman year, Martin suffered a foot injury that kept him off the field and his sophomore year was cut short by an Achilles’ heel injury. Finally, in his junior season, Martin displayed the talent that had drawn so much attention from University of Pittsburgh fans only two years earlier. That year Martin ran for 1,132 yards behind an offensive line that was not impressive. Martin began his senior season well, running for 251 yards against Texas in the season opener. The next week, against Ohio University, Martin’s injury troubles revisited him as he was taken out of the game with an ankle injury which would bother him the rest of the season. Plagued by injury after injury, Martin’s college career was merely mediocre. Martin had the opportunity during his senior season to apply for a medical redshirt year of eligibility and stay in school for another year, but instead opted to enter the 1995 NFL draft. The fans and media thought that Martin was making an unwise decision, saying that he would be a low-round draft pick if he even got drafted. Little did they know what kind of history Martin would make in the National Football League.
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If he had a full Achilles' tear, especially at that time, he would have missed most of his junior season. Given that it looks like he was good to go from Day 1 of his junior season and had 250+ rushing yards in the season opener, I don't see any possible way he tore his Achilles'. Similary, I have not seen anywhere listing him having had or recovered from that injury . . . and that includes site/bios from places like his HOF bio, his Patriots and Jets bios, anything draft related, or old info from his days at Pitt. Given that that would have been a major injury, one would think that that would have been reported somewhere. I remember when Martin got drafted by the Pats and I do not ever recall him being described as a guy who suffered a major debilitating injury.
 
'David Yudkin said:
Accoring to this SITE, here were some notable folks that had Achilles' injuries. I don't know at won't point they had them in their careers, so I don't know if they "came back" or if they were "ever the same."

Two-time NCAA all-around gymnastics champion Courtney Kupets (one in 2003 and another on March 2008)
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I think this one is a good example of a young athlete returning from the injury. After tearing her left achilles in 2003, she scored the highest at the 2004 Olympic trials and competed in the 2004 Olympics. Following a right achilles tear in 2008, she was the national all-around champion in 2009 competing for Georgia.If a gymnast can return to top form, LeShoure certainly can.

 
I could be wrong, but I think Deuce McAllister had a torn Achilles in 2007 and came back with a decent year in 08.

 
'Luke Skywalker said:
I could be wrong, but I think Deuce McAllister had a torn Achilles in 2007 and came back with a decent year in 08.
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You are wrong. McAllister was placed on injured reserve on October 10, 2005, after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, and returned to the roster for the 2006 season. Google is your friend. No mention in his wiki professional career of a torn achillies or anywhere else that I can find.
 
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'Luke Skywalker said:
I could be wrong, but I think Deuce McAllister had a torn Achilles in 2007 and came back with a decent year in 08.
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You are wrong. McAllister was placed on injured reserve on October 10, 2005, after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, and returned to the roster for the 2006 season. Google is your friend. No mention in his wiki professional career of a torn achillies or anywhere else that I can find.
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Yeah never mind that was Aaron Stecker in 2007. Sorry to have offended you with my lack of Googling.
 
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'David Yudkin said:
'cstu said:
'David Yudkin said:
'cstu said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Everyone is going to point at DeMaryius Thomas as an example, but it's a different animal for WRs than RBs. I would guess that RBs lose a lot of their power from that injury and that is the main difference. I highly doubt Mikel LeShoure ever amounts to much. Yes, he may come back and be serviceable, but I doubt he will ever be the player he could have been.
Click to expand...
A guy named Curtis Martin did.
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I do not believe that Martin ever had a torn Achilles, let alone returned from one.
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It doesn't say exactly what type of injury it was though.Link

When Martin arrived at the University of Pittsburgh, he was immediately compared to the former University of Pittsburgh great, Tony Dorsett. Martin was expected to be the player who would turn the University of Pittsburgh football around, but things did not turn out as planned. During his freshman year, Martin suffered a foot injury that kept him off the field and his sophomore year was cut short by an Achilles’ heel injury. Finally, in his junior season, Martin displayed the talent that had drawn so much attention from University of Pittsburgh fans only two years earlier. That year Martin ran for 1,132 yards behind an offensive line that was not impressive. Martin began his senior season well, running for 251 yards against Texas in the season opener. The next week, against Ohio University, Martin’s injury troubles revisited him as he was taken out of the game with an ankle injury which would bother him the rest of the season. Plagued by injury after injury, Martin’s college career was merely mediocre. Martin had the opportunity during his senior season to apply for a medical redshirt year of eligibility and stay in school for another year, but instead opted to enter the 1995 NFL draft. The fans and media thought that Martin was making an unwise decision, saying that he would be a low-round draft pick if he even got drafted. Little did they know what kind of history Martin would make in the National Football League.
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If he had a full Achilles' tear, especially at that time, he would have missed most of his junior season. Given that it looks like he was good to go from Day 1 of his junior season and had 250+ rushing yards in the season opener, I don't see any possible way he tore his Achilles'. Similary, I have not seen anywhere listing him having had or recovered from that injury . . . and that includes site/bios from places like his HOF bio, his Patriots and Jets bios, anything draft related, or old info from his days at Pitt. Given that that would have been a major injury, one would think that that would have been reported somewhere. I remember when Martin got drafted by the Pats and I do not ever recall him being described as a guy who suffered a major debilitating injury.
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Maybe it was just a strain like Vince Carter had.
 
FWIW, I remember on one of the recent audible podcasts, Bramel was more optimistic about Leshoure coming back from his injury than Ryan Williams recovering from his, which was surprising to me. If I remember correctly he mentioned that the type of player each guy was played into that opinion. Williams because he was a more explosive player would have a harder time getting back to 100% than Leshoure, the power back.

 
As a Dolphins fan, I can tell you that Dan Marino was never the same after his ACL tear. I think he played 5 or 6 more years, but he was never the same player that he was before the injury. He used to be able to take a step in one direction to avoid the rush but lost that ability after the injury.

 
'wakelawyer said:
As a Dolphins fan, I can tell you that Dan Marino was never the same after his ACL tear. I think he played 5 or 6 more years, but he was never the same player that he was before the injury. He used to be able to take a step in one direction to avoid the rush but lost that ability after the injury.
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You mean his Achilles rupture right? I agree, he didn't seem to be quite the same after that, though medical advances may have changed things and LeShoure is much younger than Marino was then.
 
In Bramel I trust. :boxing:

Glad I picked up Leshoure from the pile after a impatient dynasty owner dropped him.

 
I don't think that we have a significant enough sample to draw upon, period. To me, LeShoure is a total gamble. He could come back, he could not. If the price is low enough, I think he's worth a shot at least, though I wouldn't expect any 2012 production.

 
'David Yudkin said:
Accoring to this SITE, here were some notable folks that had Achilles' injuries. I don't know at won't point they had them in their careers, so I don't know if they "came back" or if they were "ever the same."

Dan Marino

Boris Becker

Elton Brand

Dominique Wilkens

Christian Laettner

Dan Dickau

Brandon Stokley

Lavar Arrington

Vinnie Testeverde

Donovan Bailey , the 100m gold medalist from the Atlanta Olympics

Washington Redskin Left tackle Jon Jansen

LA Laker captain Elgin Baylor

Two-time NCAA all-around gymnastics champion Courtney Kupets (one in 2003 and another on March 2008)

Defensive tackle Rien Long (Tennessee)

Philadelphia Eagle Derrick Burgess

Kostya Tszyu defended and retained his International Boxing Federation Junior Welterweight

Middle distance runner Kelly Holmes

San Diego Padre catcher Josh Bard

Raiders’ receiver Ronald Curry

New Jersey Net Vince Carter
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Didn't Donald Butler, linebacker from San Diego have a serious achilles injury that made him miss his entire rookie season?

Granted he isn't a RB, but maybe he might be a good example for this thread. He didn't play too bad last year.

I did attempt to search for his rookie year injury, but was unsuccessful, does anyone have any facts to his situation?

 
'Shutout said:
'Warpig said:
I did some research on the injury right after Leshoure's injury. I drafted him in one of my leagues and got pretty pissed once I heard the news.

With that said, what I read wasn't very promising. I read the article previously mentioned as well as the results of various other athletes from other sports. It wasn't pretty.

At best, I figured Leshoure would come back as a between the tackles plodder, good for 3 yards per carry and maybe a handful of TD's and be out of the league within a few years. For these reasons, I dropped him. No room on my roster for another average RB that I would probably never plug in to my lineup barring catastrophic injuries to my other RB's.

Ofcourse, this will probably come back to bite me in the ### and he'll be the next Terrell Davis. But I went with my gut so I have no regrets.

Oh! And my wife is a physical therapist. Said that is one of the worst things that can happen to an athlete.

Good luck to ya Leshoure.
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Ditto. My wife advised me against trying to trade for him mid-season when I was kicking rocks for the future. Says he will never realize his full potential. What makes a case like this interesting is that we don't know how good he was going to be. For all we know he may have been the next Tatum Bell OR he may have been the next Eric Dickerson. And if he was the latter, he could come back at 80% and be great. Since he was a highly touted rookie, people seem to value him optimistically. Reality says, however, that it is far more likely that he comes back and is a journeyman RB that will flash from time to time and we will hear stories his entire career about what if.I think a very telling aspect of a conversation like this is that no one can readily think of a true success story with this injury where the athlete returns to pre-injury form. Regardless of a compilation of data that mentions 29 year old athletes a decade ago, etc, when you see that this is a rare injury (0.93% of NFL athletes), that tells us that while the data we are trying to compare to a 23 year old may not match exactly, the underlying statement is to focus that this does not get diagnosed often and it doesn't end well for the athlete; otherwise, as FF junkies, we would all immediately think of someone who has recovered fully.

And the fact that we don't have a success story to hang our hats on looms ominous. When you read the medical description of what actually happens to the tendons when they rupture and the challenges to repair them, etc, and then you think of what it is exactly that a RB relies on from his knee down to his foot, its hard to be optimistic.
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You guys have really cool wives. :thumbup: Pics? ;)
 
'Hoosier16 said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
Let's reduce this to bullet points:•The study covered 31 players playing from fourteen to nine years ago. •The average age of the players at the time of injury was 29.
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This is the study that gets brought up over and over, generally right after someone injures their achilles. The two huge problems with the study are that the average age at injury is 29 and that it is a 10 year old study evaluating 15 year old medicine. The average age is a problem in two ways. One, a 23 year old will heal better and faster than a 30 year old. And two, an uninjured 30 year old RB will perform dramatically worse than an uninjured 28 year old RB.Leshoure has a much better chance than anyone in that study.
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:goodposting: I'd love to see the study that shows uninjured 30 year olds outproduce uninjured years 26-28.
 
I think Leshoure will be a very interesting test case.

I posted my concerns about the Foot and Ankle study noted earlier in this thread in the Demaryius Thomas thread last February. There's little doubt that a ruptured Achilles' is a difficult injury for any skill position player to overcome, but I believe that study sets the bar artificially low due to flawed conclusions and application of its arguments.

I won't repeat all those arguments here, but will again say that the resulting common argument that often grouped Thomas with replacement level WR talents like Todd Pinkston and Ronald Curry who failed to overcome an Achilles injury rather than already well regarded edge rushing talents like Julian Peterson, Derrick Burgess or Greg Ellis who went on to have at least one elite statistical season post repair just because they shared a position was always extremely questionable.

The major concerns with a return to form after an Achilles' tear relate to explosiveness and change of direction, due to the possibility of chronic pain, loss of range of motion at the ankle, a player's trust in the repair and other issues. New microsurgical techniques and accelerated rehab schedules designed to decrease the length of time these guys are immobilized have (theoretically) made loss of range of motion and muscle strength less of a concern.

I felt like Demaryius Thomas -- who I didn't see was a receiver who relied on short space explosiveness and change of direction -- had a very good chance to return to full form by midseason 2012 and hoped that he'd begin showing signs of recovery by late this year. I'm still not seeing a quick burst off the line, but there's evidence that Thomas has full confidence in making sharp cuts in his routes and his straight line playing speed doesn't seem to be a question either.

Leshoure game and position isn't a clean comparison to the WR/rusher position, though. My read of Leshoure's game is that he had some wiggle to him despite being a bigger runner, so any loss in his short space explosiveness and change of direction (physically or mentally) will likely affect his play between the tackles. So, there's definitely reason for more caution with him. But he's also got the benefit of newer surgical techniques and rehab schedules, a front office likely to give him multiple chances as a player they identified as an elite first round talent and a depth chart that opens up relatively nicely for him.

Without knowing a whole lot about his mental makeup and how his rehab going, it's really hard to know whether Leshoure will do well early in camp, struggle a bit and then hit his stride or never be the player he was. But I think it's dead wrong to write him off because of the nature of his injury. I'm on the buy side for sure right now, with the cost it'll take to get him (or conversely, to sell him) dependent slightly more on how much you believed in his talent before his injury than worries about the nature of the injury itself.

 
'Luke Skywalker said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'Luke Skywalker said:
I could be wrong, but I think Deuce McAllister had a torn Achilles in 2007 and came back with a decent year in 08.
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You are wrong. McAllister was placed on injured reserve on October 10, 2005, after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, and returned to the roster for the 2006 season. Google is your friend. No mention in his wiki professional career of a torn achillies or anywhere else that I can find.
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Yeah never mind that was Aaron Stecker in 2007. Sorry to have offended you with my lack of Googling.
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No one is offended, just trying to help you.
 
I've actually done this - complete rupture and its never been the same (not that I'm an NFL athlete), but at that level I'm sure its a major disadvantage.. While I'd like to think the doctor that performed my surgery is very good (has been doing these for nearly 25 years), I'm sure the NFL player doctors are probably a lot better..

Also, didnt David Beckham do this and he never played again right?

 
'nflguru said:
Also, didnt David Beckham do this and he never played again right?
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Beckham tore his Achilles in 2010 and is still playing, although I don't think he has played as much. I don't know how well he has played in his return.
 
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Brown was done and shocked the Gmen when he returned this year. He spent the spring with Ahmad Bradshaw and wore Vibram feet shoes. There's no magical cure, he consistently said (in this video and all summer) he just worked hard when asked how he looked so good.

Here's a video with Anita Starks.

http://www.giants.co...e6-ea5d8b342650

He runs some in that. I don't have much of anything to show you guys here. This is it, so...cmon now.

Most are straight away and not all that pertinent, but he bounces a bit on the first run 1:50 and just looks comfy on these and not like an injury riddled guy.

The Gmen had one position open with Jacobs and Ahmad locked in. I thought he'd beat out Ware. I still am unsure why he didn't. Nervousness about the injury? Wanted a vet?

I doubt Ware is a Giant in 2012.

If the Giants move Bradshaw or Jacobs, Brown's playing in 2012.

They put him in for some tough carries and he did fine. The Giants wanted to see him move some piles and he did.

I guess there's next preseason, but the Giants are running out of ways to test him and simply gotta get him on the field to see how he fares.

ETA here's two preseason runs at about 1:15 by Brown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzc0BP5tHew

The announcer says Scott, but it's Brown.

 
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'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'Hoosier16 said:
How many (young) RBs have had torn a achilles?
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Good question, but I bet there have been a few throughout history. There was one by a Giants rookie Andre Brown and he has never amounted to anything after his injury. Of course he wasn't a stud coming out of college.
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I don't know if LeShore and Andre Brown are the best examples since I don't know that either one was really expected to set the world on fire. Somebody sneak into Arian Foster's bedroom and slit his achillies...we know he is good so if he can't come back from it then we have some solid proof. We might want to get a larger sample so consider using McCoy, Rice, and Chris Johnson as subjects as well.
 
'faulkfan said:
'Hoss_Cartwright said:
'Hoosier16 said:
How many (young) RBs have had torn a achilles?
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Good question, but I bet there have been a few throughout history. There was one by a Giants rookie Andre Brown and he has never amounted to anything after his injury. Of course he wasn't a stud coming out of college.
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I don't know if LeShore and Andre Brown are the best examples since I don't know that either one was really expected to set the world on fire. Somebody sneak into Arian Foster's bedroom and slit his achillies...we know he is good so if he can't come back from it then we have some solid proof. We might want to get a larger sample so consider using McCoy, Rice, and Chris Johnson as subjects as well.
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Through your attempt at humor you were wrong about the one thing you were trying to be serious about. LeShoure WAS really expected to "set the world on fire". He was a highly touted RB.
 
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