Youth Soccer - Questions, Discussion and Stories (1 Viewer)

[Chadstroma]

My youngest daughter was playing on a competitive 14u team as a 10 year old last year

My now 11 year old daughter just got cut from her 5th grade soccer tryouts

She’s crushed(hell, I’m crushed)

1st time coach(2nd year teacher), who’s never coached soccer before, blah blah blah

Work harder kid

My daughter seemingly gets very nervous and over thinks everything in tryouts for basketball and volleyball. I think she has missed making the higher teams several times because of this. Is this possible with your daughter?

 

[Chadstroma]

With most other pro sports, the majority of professionals were multi sport athletes up through HS. I have seen a ton of data that suggest being one sport athletes does not necessarily give an advantage over a multi sport athlete and that the chances of injury and burn out dramatically increase when they are one sport athletes versus multi sport athletes.

I think this could be true for football, track, and swimming. It definitely is not true for soccer, where a child needs like a million touches before X age to develop the requisite ball control. Whether they get those touches in local clubs (like Europe), or travel teams (like the USA), or in the street (like Argentina and Brazil), they need those touches.

I think it might be the same for some other sports like tennis and gymnastics. I also wonder if the club+academy thing in Europe is what is allowing more European players to succeed in the NBA. Of course I bet a lot of NBA players got millions of touches in the street too.

Football yes because it is a very 'limited' sport in that you typically play the football season and that is it... there are no year round football leagues. However, it seems that a trend is to have flag football in the football off season for some of these kids.

With my limited knowledge of track, I would say that it makes sense to me but there is certainly a difference of being fast and being track fast... what goes into that is harder for me to say.

Swim, I am going to say I don't think that this is accurate on the average. First, swim is no where near about being stronger or more conditioned... of course that is important but it is really about the technique. It is mind numbing how much technique is involved in swim and how much it all adds up. There are thousands of little adjustments that need to be made to improve in swim. On top of that I promise you that your average kid in swim spends way more time at practice. My son has swim practice in season 2 hours a day, 5 days a week (though this last season he missed a ridiculous amount of practice due to football and basketball conflicts). There are two seasons a year and that amounts to about 10 months worth of swim at that 2 hours a day and 5 days a week. This is not talking elite level or anything, this is your normal practice school for a normal club swim team though I have looked some of the top clubs in Illinois and their schedules are basically the same for the different levels. I will say that my son was moved up and your typical 10 year old would be at 1 and a half hours a day. I am pretty sure our local club team for their elite has 2 practices a week of about 1 1/2 or maybe 2 hours. Now, the big difference there is a kid can go out and dribble a soccer ball to himself or do other things on their own where your typical swimmer is done for the day. Again, I don't know squat about soccer so it is hard for me to say but the sheer time difference of swim vs soccer is massive when talking about practice time. For swim, it only increases as they get to HS. Swim has a lot of fallout because it is a grind of a sport and very time consuming if you want to be any good at it as pure athletic talent only gets you so far with swim. You can be a great athlete and pick up most other sports way fast than if you tried swim.

Tennis I don't know but gymnastics, absolutely. The time commitment from what I have known from friends who have daughters in it is very similar to swim.

I can say a big reason why Europe is starting to eclipse the US in basketball is very simple. In Europe, you practice like 5 days a week on the fundamentals and then play a game on the weekend. In the US, you have a couple of practices during the week and then play 5 games on the weekend. In the US, it is consumed with 'exposure' and catering to the child athletes, basically recruiting them by telling them "don't worry about coming to practices, just come to the games." The focus on development vs getting known is way off in favor of European basketball.

 

[The Z Machine]

the sheer time difference of swim vs soccer is massive when talking about practice time.

I think you're hitting on a reason why the US struggles in soccer compared to some other countries. There are children all over the world that are getting 4+ hours/day with touches on a soccer ball. Playing in the streets after school, recess, etc. Like pickup basketball in the park, there is pickup soccer on concrete or dirt fields all over the world. Sure, it's not organized practices, learning positioning and off the ball movement, but the ability to control the ball in tight situations, receive a hard pass and put it exactly where you want it (say to get a shot off, or keep in stride) is an area where the US men's soccer team is historically weak.

 

[Chadstroma]

First soccer game. Against a school we did not play last year which I am guessing was because they couldn't field a non-co ed team.

5-1 win. My son started at and played goalie most of the game. He has a couple of nice saves. One he hit with his hands in a diving motion and the ball came back and hit him in the face and then went out.... of course, I yell out "Way to use your face!"

The one that got by him... he blamed on the defender in front of him 'going the wrong way'. I don't know enough about soccer to say he was wrong but I do know enough about my son that he ALWAYS has an excuse and it is ALWAYS someone else's fault. He said something about not wanting to dive... which I understood, it was 40 degrees with the windchill gusts easily taking it into the high 20's but I told him "that is your job! You got to dive!"

I did dig into why a couple of the better soccer players from our grade didn't do it this year. For one, it was that he was doing school track and volleyball and is also in club/travel soccer so it just didn't make sense to add on school soccer. The other, it was really about competition. The father is super competitive and last year he would get upset when the kids less skilled were in though we won every game we played up to the championship game. In the championship game, I am confident that we would have won but they kept with the same rotation of basically "two teams" in and out as we had a number of boys last season*. That split our top players and it wasn't until the very end of the game that they put all our best players on and we were dominating the field at that point but ran out of time to come back. That really upset the father. So... he was leaning to not do soccer anyways and then with it being co-ed it sealed it for him.

*The teams are structured 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 grades. Last season was our boys in 4th grade and then the under class for 3rd grade which is another bigger class of boys that play sports. This year, we moved up as the underclassmen. The 6th grade class is a smaller class of boys. It also shows up in football as that uses the two grades per team as well... last year we went undefeated, this year we went winless. There is some good athletes in 6th and a couple of really good soccer players but just not a lot of them. In soccer, it hasn't seemed to be an issue as every year they have not lost any games during the season though they lost the championship game both years.

 

[SwampDawg]

First soccer game. Against a school we did not play last year which I am guessing was because they couldn't field a non-co ed team.

5-1 win. My son started at and played goalie most of the game. He has a couple of nice saves. One he hit with his hands in a diving motion and the ball came back and hit him in the face and then went out.... of course, I yell out "Way to use your face!"

The one that got by him... he blamed on the defender in front of him 'going the wrong way'. I don't know enough about soccer to say he was wrong but I do know enough about my son that he ALWAYS has an excuse and it is ALWAYS someone else's fault. He said something about not wanting to dive... which I understood, it was 40 degrees with the windchill gusts easily taking it into the high 20's but I told him "that is your job! You got to dive!"

I did dig into why a couple of the better soccer players from our grade didn't do it this year. For one, it was that he was doing school track and volleyball and is also in club/travel soccer so it just didn't make sense to add on school soccer. The other, it was really about competition. The father is super competitive and last year he would get upset when the kids less skilled were in though we won every game we played up to the championship game. In the championship game, I am confident that we would have won but they kept with the same rotation of basically "two teams" in and out as we had a number of boys last season*. That split our top players and it wasn't until the very end of the game that they put all our best players on and we were dominating the field at that point but ran out of time to come back. That really upset the father. So... he was leaning to not do soccer anyways and then with it being co-ed it sealed it for him.

*The teams are structured 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 grades. Last season was our boys in 4th grade and then the under class for 3rd grade which is another bigger class of boys that play sports. This year, we moved up as the underclassmen. The 6th grade class is a smaller class of boys. It also shows up in football as that uses the two grades per team as well... last year we went undefeated, this year we went winless. There is some good athletes in 6th and a couple of really good soccer players but just not a lot of them. In soccer, it hasn't seemed to be an issue as every year they have not lost any games during the season though they lost the championship game both years.

Still amazed how different things are on the west coast or maybe it is because you are in the Catholic school system if I remember correctly. No school sports back here on the east coast until usually 7th grade at the earliest.

 

[SwampDawg]

My son had his first official college visit on Tuesday. Smaller D3 school that is part of a bigger institution but he would be able to do all 4 years of his major there which is something he wants, Had a personal tour of the campus from the coach as well as a good conversation for about 45 minutes with him. Men's program is rebuilding after having a couple tough years after Covid. They've invested in new athletic facilities (weight room, locker rooms, trainer area, etc.) and have a dedicated soccer stadium (no football so only share with women's soccer and rec lacrosse in the spring). Coach has watched him play 2 or 3 different times and feels he would be a good fit with their system and could contribute right away. My son was excited to have the interest.

 

[Chadstroma]

First soccer game. Against a school we did not play last year which I am guessing was because they couldn't field a non-co ed team.

5-1 win. My son started at and played goalie most of the game. He has a couple of nice saves. One he hit with his hands in a diving motion and the ball came back and hit him in the face and then went out.... of course, I yell out "Way to use your face!"

The one that got by him... he blamed on the defender in front of him 'going the wrong way'. I don't know enough about soccer to say he was wrong but I do know enough about my son that he ALWAYS has an excuse and it is ALWAYS someone else's fault. He said something about not wanting to dive... which I understood, it was 40 degrees with the windchill gusts easily taking it into the high 20's but I told him "that is your job! You got to dive!"

I did dig into why a couple of the better soccer players from our grade didn't do it this year. For one, it was that he was doing school track and volleyball and is also in club/travel soccer so it just didn't make sense to add on school soccer. The other, it was really about competition. The father is super competitive and last year he would get upset when the kids less skilled were in though we won every game we played up to the championship game. In the championship game, I am confident that we would have won but they kept with the same rotation of basically "two teams" in and out as we had a number of boys last season*. That split our top players and it wasn't until the very end of the game that they put all our best players on and we were dominating the field at that point but ran out of time to come back. That really upset the father. So... he was leaning to not do soccer anyways and then with it being co-ed it sealed it for him.

*The teams are structured 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 grades. Last season was our boys in 4th grade and then the under class for 3rd grade which is another bigger class of boys that play sports. This year, we moved up as the underclassmen. The 6th grade class is a smaller class of boys. It also shows up in football as that uses the two grades per team as well... last year we went undefeated, this year we went winless. There is some good athletes in 6th and a couple of really good soccer players but just not a lot of them. In soccer, it hasn't seemed to be an issue as every year they have not lost any games during the season though they lost the championship game both years.

Still amazed how different things are on the west coast or maybe it is because you are in the Catholic school system if I remember correctly. No school sports back here on the east coast until usually 7th grade at the earliest.

We are at a Catholic elementary/Jr High school and in the sports mostly play other Catholic schools though in basketball there are some public school teams. The team we beat in the finals for our league was a public school team and the two tournaments we won were actually held by public schools and mostly public school teams playing in it. (I skipped the one Catholic school tournament... for two reasons... one, it was all the same teams we already play and two I wouldn't have one or two of my starters as they were on vacation for Christmas break).

But I grew up in So Cal and there were no school sports until you got into Jr High which offered basketball... I want to say track too? But not a big offering of sports. My kids have flag football (1-2 grade), football (3-8), basketball (3-8), soccer (3-8), vball (4-8) track (5-8), cross country (5-8), golf (4-8) and cheerleading (not sure how young they go... I want to say 4-8). The cost is lower than comparable any rec offerings (and competition much better) and much less cost than travel/club offerings. Our school is usually pretty competitive though of course it depends on the class. Our cheerleading program is actually the most winningest program in the state of Illinois with 20 state titles. It is very different than what I grew up with but love it and how it allows for these kids to try sports out and be multi-sport athletes.

All the sports seem to be getting stronger and growing except soccer which seems to be on life support. In basketball, there were 20 teams in two divisions for 5th grade and then soccer, we had to go co-ed with 5-6th grades.

 

[Chadstroma]

My son had his first official college visit on Tuesday. Smaller D3 school that is part of a bigger institution but he would be able to do all 4 years of his major there which is something he wants, Had a personal tour of the campus from the coach as well as a good conversation for about 45 minutes with him. Men's program is rebuilding after having a couple tough years after Covid. They've invested in new athletic facilities (weight room, locker rooms, trainer area, etc.) and have a dedicated soccer stadium (no football so only share with women's soccer and rec lacrosse in the spring). Coach has watched him play 2 or 3 different times and feels he would be a good fit with their system and could contribute right away. My son was excited to have the interest.

How does that work?

 

[SwampDawg]

My son had his first official college visit on Tuesday. Smaller D3 school that is part of a bigger institution but he would be able to do all 4 years of his major there which is something he wants, Had a personal tour of the campus from the coach as well as a good conversation for about 45 minutes with him. Men's program is rebuilding after having a couple tough years after Covid. They've invested in new athletic facilities (weight room, locker rooms, trainer area, etc.) and have a dedicated soccer stadium (no football so only share with women's soccer and rec lacrosse in the spring). Coach has watched him play 2 or 3 different times and feels he would be a good fit with their system and could contribute right away. My son was excited to have the interest.

How does that work?

Some of the big universities have satellite campuses that have their own sports teams. For Example the University of Pittsburgh is of course the big D1 school but there is also Pitt -Johnstown, Pitt-Greensburg and a couple others. They are part of the overall school but have there own sports programs that are at various levels (Johnstown is D2, Greensburg is D3). Rutgers, Penn State and others have the same setup. Depending on your major sometimes you can only do 2 years at the satellite campus then need to finish at the main campus and for others you can go all four years but when you graduate your diploma is the same as if you went to the main campus. Academically it is a plus because you get the resources of the bigger school with smaller class size and sports wise if the big school is getting support from Nike then you are getting all the Nike gear and swag as well something that a small independent university might not get.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Spring season, more casual in California as State Cup is the fall season, was a mixed bag. Team was often short due to players split between soccer and baseball, with baseball often the precedent. My son played well and is increasingly specializing in soccer, though maintains an interest in basketball, skiing, etc.

In spring, he tried out for and made the top local team, was in a Nike camp last week, is in another camp this week, has a soccer sleep away camp in July, is taking 3x/week lessons from a high school grad who's going to play D1 in the fall, and he still has energy to ask me to go kick with him just about every night. Kicking includes us long passing, short passing with both feet, ladder drills, long sprints, and running sideways and backwards for stretches. He's 10 years old. I'm embarrassingly sore at times. But I can never say no. I don't know where he gets it. Yeah, I had my talents when I was younger. For example, I was really good at coming up with semi-believable excuses for why I shouldn't go to practice.

I gotta keep an eye out for burnout.

Nearing a year later and the dynamic is changing a bit. Could use some advice as we plan for next season. He plays U11, 9v9 soccer.

Option 1: Stay on current team as starting striker next year on top local club for final club season at U12 level (local clubs funnel into the U13 ECNL league after next year). Team is flighted two levels lower than his current coach thinks he could play. Team might move up one level next season, but might be a stretch. Staying on team almost locks in an opportunity for additional 1x/week practice with next year's U13 ECNL team (spots are offered to top 2 players on team). Oh, coach is leaving and not sure who will be coach next year.

Option 2: . Explore neighboring community team (current coach is going to this club, not sure which teams). Tryout in early May. Spot on top team might be a stretch, second team very possible. Second team likely to compete at one, maybe two, levels higher than his current team. Must be on top team to have shot at additional 1x/week practice, and then must be 1 of top 2 players. Not likely to happen. Likely less playing time.

Option 3: Explore club(s) further out, requiring more parent logistics (driving to practice more burdensome). Teams play higher level soccer, rosters are deep, programs and facilities better developed. Soccer is near year-round, and rigor will test him. If he can get on the right team, a year here will prepare him for the shift to U13 11v11 soccer. Likely less (least?) playing time.

He says he wants to go to where the best soccer is, but I'm not convinced he fully understands what that means (less PT, fewer friends, etc.).

Costs are largely the same. Practices are 3x/week plus at least one small group session with specialized coach and occasional 1:1 practice. Several league games, a few tournaments/year.

Appreciate ANY thoughts.

 

[Chadstroma]

Spring season, more casual in California as State Cup is the fall season, was a mixed bag. Team was often short due to players split between soccer and baseball, with baseball often the precedent. My son played well and is increasingly specializing in soccer, though maintains an interest in basketball, skiing, etc.

In spring, he tried out for and made the top local team, was in a Nike camp last week, is in another camp this week, has a soccer sleep away camp in July, is taking 3x/week lessons from a high school grad who's going to play D1 in the fall, and he still has energy to ask me to go kick with him just about every night. Kicking includes us long passing, short passing with both feet, ladder drills, long sprints, and running sideways and backwards for stretches. He's 10 years old. I'm embarrassingly sore at times. But I can never say no. I don't know where he gets it. Yeah, I had my talents when I was younger. For example, I was really good at coming up with semi-believable excuses for why I shouldn't go to practice.

I gotta keep an eye out for burnout.

Nearing a year later and the dynamic is changing a bit. Could use some advice as we plan for next season. He plays U11, 9v9 soccer.

Option 1: Stay on current team as starting striker next year on top local club for final club season at U12 level (local clubs funnel into the U13 ECNL league after next year). Team is flighted two levels lower than his current coach thinks he could play. Team might move up one level next season, but might be a stretch. Staying on team almost locks in an opportunity for additional 1x/week practice with next year's U13 ECNL team (spots are offered to top 2 players on team). Oh, coach is leaving and not sure who will be coach next year.

Option 2: . Explore neighboring community team (current coach is going to this club, not sure which teams). Tryout in early May. Spot on top team might be a stretch, second team very possible. Second team likely to compete at one, maybe two, levels higher than his current team. Must be on top team to have shot at additional 1x/week practice, and then must be 1 of top 2 players. Not likely to happen. Likely less playing time.

Option 3: Explore club(s) further out, requiring more parent logistics (driving to practice more burdensome). Teams play higher level soccer, rosters are deep, programs and facilities better developed. Soccer is near year-round, and rigor will test him. If he can get on the right team, a year here will prepare him for the shift to U13 11v11 soccer. Likely less (least?) playing time.

He says he wants to go to where the best soccer is, but I'm not convinced he fully understands what that means (less PT, fewer friends, etc.).

Costs are largely the same. Practices are 3x/week plus at least one small group session with specialized coach and occasional 1:1 practice. Several league games, a few tournaments/year.

Appreciate ANY thoughts.

Have you dived into the conversation about what it means to play at the highest level you can.... e,g, less PT, fewer friends, etc?

I think at that age you really have to spell it out for them at these ages. Lay it out, giving them examples and for instances. The way that I approach sports with my kids is that they are the primary decision maker and I usually help them understand their options, how it will impact them, how they can get to their goals, etc and help guide them. As an example of how I approached that is a few seasons ago for swim, my son kept bringing up taking a season off. I understood a big reason for this is that he aged out of the 8U and was in 10U getting blown out by 10 year olds as a 9 year old. I explained to him (almost verbatim) "I am not going to make you but I think it would be a very bad decision. This is why: Swim makes you better at all your sports you like more (Football, Basketball and Soccer) with the conditioning and strength building you get. Also, right now in most events you are the fastest or second or third fastest 9 yr old... if you take a season off, all the swimmers you are beating now will improve and you will regress and when you come back you won't be winning as much as if you stayed." This conversation happened without exaggeration 10 times. Finally, one day (after he won a really great IM event against another swimmer where they were neck and neck the whole team giving up leads to each other) he says "Daddy, I know why you don't want me to skip next season." I said, "Oh yea, why is that." He basically tells me what I told him over those 10 conversations and I am thinking in my head..... this just now dawns on you? Fast forward a couple of seasons.... he made several events for regionals and event state for the 50 Fly (making state is a huge deal). He has all of next season to add more events for regionals and state and get a lot of wins before he ages up to 12U.

That being said... there are times that I step in and be that parent and say "tough, this is what you are doing...." because they are kids. I have pushed my daughter more in areas because I knew I needed to push her out of her comfort zone on things like going to a sports camp even though none of her friends were going. Or that she didn't want to do fall league vball last season but I kind of made her because again, it was based on her sticking to her comfort zone and a little bit of laziness too.

From there... I think once you get that dialed in with the kids one what they want and making sure whatever decision is not "out of bounds" then you basically let them decide except for option 3.... if that is an option then you guys really have to be on board with the extra burden on you guys as a family to make it work.

 

[The Z Machine]

Spring season, more casual in California as State Cup is the fall season, was a mixed bag. Team was often short due to players split between soccer and baseball, with baseball often the precedent. My son played well and is increasingly specializing in soccer, though maintains an interest in basketball, skiing, etc.

In spring, he tried out for and made the top local team, was in a Nike camp last week, is in another camp this week, has a soccer sleep away camp in July, is taking 3x/week lessons from a high school grad who's going to play D1 in the fall, and he still has energy to ask me to go kick with him just about every night. Kicking includes us long passing, short passing with both feet, ladder drills, long sprints, and running sideways and backwards for stretches. He's 10 years old. I'm embarrassingly sore at times. But I can never say no. I don't know where he gets it. Yeah, I had my talents when I was younger. For example, I was really good at coming up with semi-believable excuses for why I shouldn't go to practice.

I gotta keep an eye out for burnout.

Nearing a year later and the dynamic is changing a bit. Could use some advice as we plan for next season. He plays U11, 9v9 soccer.

Option 1: Stay on current team as starting striker next year on top local club for final club season at U12 level (local clubs funnel into the U13 ECNL league after next year). Team is flighted two levels lower than his current coach thinks he could play. Team might move up one level next season, but might be a stretch. Staying on team almost locks in an opportunity for additional 1x/week practice with next year's U13 ECNL team (spots are offered to top 2 players on team). Oh, coach is leaving and not sure who will be coach next year.

Option 2: . Explore neighboring community team (current coach is going to this club, not sure which teams). Tryout in early May. Spot on top team might be a stretch, second team very possible. Second team likely to compete at one, maybe two, levels higher than his current team. Must be on top team to have shot at additional 1x/week practice, and then must be 1 of top 2 players. Not likely to happen. Likely less playing time.

Option 3: Explore club(s) further out, requiring more parent logistics (driving to practice more burdensome). Teams play higher level soccer, rosters are deep, programs and facilities better developed. Soccer is near year-round, and rigor will test him. If he can get on the right team, a year here will prepare him for the shift to U13 11v11 soccer. Likely less (least?) playing time.

He says he wants to go to where the best soccer is, but I'm not convinced he fully understands what that means (less PT, fewer friends, etc.).

Costs are largely the same. Practices are 3x/week plus at least one small group session with specialized coach and occasional 1:1 practice. Several league games, a few tournaments/year.

Appreciate ANY thoughts.

Next year's ECNL U13 team from option 1, how good is it and how good is the coaching?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Spring season, more casual in California as State Cup is the fall season, was a mixed bag. Team was often short due to players split between soccer and baseball, with baseball often the precedent. My son played well and is increasingly specializing in soccer, though maintains an interest in basketball, skiing, etc.

In spring, he tried out for and made the top local team, was in a Nike camp last week, is in another camp this week, has a soccer sleep away camp in July, is taking 3x/week lessons from a high school grad who's going to play D1 in the fall, and he still has energy to ask me to go kick with him just about every night. Kicking includes us long passing, short passing with both feet, ladder drills, long sprints, and running sideways and backwards for stretches. He's 10 years old. I'm embarrassingly sore at times. But I can never say no. I don't know where he gets it. Yeah, I had my talents when I was younger. For example, I was really good at coming up with semi-believable excuses for why I shouldn't go to practice.

I gotta keep an eye out for burnout.

Nearing a year later and the dynamic is changing a bit. Could use some advice as we plan for next season. He plays U11, 9v9 soccer.

Option 1: Stay on current team as starting striker next year on top local club for final club season at U12 level (local clubs funnel into the U13 ECNL league after next year). Team is flighted two levels lower than his current coach thinks he could play. Team might move up one level next season, but might be a stretch. Staying on team almost locks in an opportunity for additional 1x/week practice with next year's U13 ECNL team (spots are offered to top 2 players on team). Oh, coach is leaving and not sure who will be coach next year.

Option 2: . Explore neighboring community team (current coach is going to this club, not sure which teams). Tryout in early May. Spot on top team might be a stretch, second team very possible. Second team likely to compete at one, maybe two, levels higher than his current team. Must be on top team to have shot at additional 1x/week practice, and then must be 1 of top 2 players. Not likely to happen. Likely less playing time.

Option 3: Explore club(s) further out, requiring more parent logistics (driving to practice more burdensome). Teams play higher level soccer, rosters are deep, programs and facilities better developed. Soccer is near year-round, and rigor will test him. If he can get on the right team, a year here will prepare him for the shift to U13 11v11 soccer. Likely less (least?) playing time.

He says he wants to go to where the best soccer is, but I'm not convinced he fully understands what that means (less PT, fewer friends, etc.).

Costs are largely the same. Practices are 3x/week plus at least one small group session with specialized coach and occasional 1:1 practice. Several league games, a few tournaments/year.

Appreciate ANY thoughts.

Next year's ECNL U13 team from option 1, how good is it and how good is the coaching?

Should be a pretty strong team. Actually there will probably be 4 teams in various flights. I don't know who the coaches are, and I don't think they'd even say who the coach will be then. Moving pieces each season across a deep bench of coaches. The program is good and getting better, but not as strong as option 3.

Incidentally, I went out to watch my coach's older team play tonight at the very club mentioned in option 3. And the team invited my son to practice this week for the pre-ECNL team. He's going to go, probably next Friday and following Monday. 35 minutes each way, Sunday night traffic. That will be a hard, hard sell. But I think the tryout would be good for him to measure himself up against higher level competition.

Greatly appreciate the detailed response Chadstroma. Need to read in greater detail tomorrow.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My 7yr old got an invitation for all 3 teams he tried out for and my 9yr old got 0. Ugh.

 

[The Z Machine]

My 7yr old got an invitation for all 3 teams he tried out for and my 9yr old got 0. Ugh.

That's tough. Any other options for the 9 y.o.?

 

[SwampDawg]

Spring season, more casual in California as State Cup is the fall season, was a mixed bag. Team was often short due to players split between soccer and baseball, with baseball often the precedent. My son played well and is increasingly specializing in soccer, though maintains an interest in basketball, skiing, etc.

In spring, he tried out for and made the top local team, was in a Nike camp last week, is in another camp this week, has a soccer sleep away camp in July, is taking 3x/week lessons from a high school grad who's going to play D1 in the fall, and he still has energy to ask me to go kick with him just about every night. Kicking includes us long passing, short passing with both feet, ladder drills, long sprints, and running sideways and backwards for stretches. He's 10 years old. I'm embarrassingly sore at times. But I can never say no. I don't know where he gets it. Yeah, I had my talents when I was younger. For example, I was really good at coming up with semi-believable excuses for why I shouldn't go to practice.

I gotta keep an eye out for burnout.

Nearing a year later and the dynamic is changing a bit. Could use some advice as we plan for next season. He plays U11, 9v9 soccer.

Option 1: Stay on current team as starting striker next year on top local club for final club season at U12 level (local clubs funnel into the U13 ECNL league after next year). Team is flighted two levels lower than his current coach thinks he could play. Team might move up one level next season, but might be a stretch. Staying on team almost locks in an opportunity for additional 1x/week practice with next year's U13 ECNL team (spots are offered to top 2 players on team). Oh, coach is leaving and not sure who will be coach next year.

Option 2: . Explore neighboring community team (current coach is going to this club, not sure which teams). Tryout in early May. Spot on top team might be a stretch, second team very possible. Second team likely to compete at one, maybe two, levels higher than his current team. Must be on top team to have shot at additional 1x/week practice, and then must be 1 of top 2 players. Not likely to happen. Likely less playing time.

Option 3: Explore club(s) further out, requiring more parent logistics (driving to practice more burdensome). Teams play higher level soccer, rosters are deep, programs and facilities better developed. Soccer is near year-round, and rigor will test him. If he can get on the right team, a year here will prepare him for the shift to U13 11v11 soccer. Likely less (least?) playing time.

He says he wants to go to where the best soccer is, but I'm not convinced he fully understands what that means (less PT, fewer friends, etc.).

Costs are largely the same. Practices are 3x/week plus at least one small group session with specialized coach and occasional 1:1 practice. Several league games, a few tournaments/year.

Appreciate ANY thoughts.

Next year's ECNL U13 team from option 1, how good is it and how good is the coaching?

Should be a pretty strong team. Actually there will probably be 4 teams in various flights. I don't know who the coaches are, and I don't think they'd even say who the coach will be then. Moving pieces each season across a deep bench of coaches. The program is good and getting better, but not as strong as option 3.

Incidentally, I went out to watch my coach's older team play tonight at the very club mentioned in option 3. And the team invited my son to practice this week for the pre-ECNL team. He's going to go, probably next Friday and following Monday. 35 minutes each way, Sunday night traffic. That will be a hard, hard sell. But I think the tryout would be good for him to measure himself up against higher level competition.

Greatly appreciate the detailed response Chadstroma. Need to read in greater detail tomorrow.

I think the points @Chadstroma brought up are great ones and a lot depends on the personality of your son. Is he ok coming off the bench or does he want to be the star (and that isn't a bad thing, someone needs to be). My son figured out on his own that he would rather come off the bench and play 40 minutes a game but play against the highest competition he can and train at a really high level then drop down a level or two and play 90 minutes a game but not be pressed. But that is also his personality, he would rather be the 10th best player on a really good team then be the center of attention on an average team.

I will say at the age your son is at I think time on the ball is really important, be that training or games so if he can get extra training in with the team he'll be playing on next year that can really aid his development. Highly recommend also that like your option 3 if he has the chance to go train with the team and coach a couple times instead of just a tryout have him do that. He will get a better feel for what he thinks and they will also get to see what he can do much better then during a tryout with 70 other kids. It is pretty common for teams to have guest players at training.

Know what you are getting in for and make sure that is ok as a family as well. You mentioned a 35 minute drive for training being a hard sell, how is overnight travel on the weekends going to fly? How is out of state travel on both the budget and with other members of the family? I bring this up because you mentioned ECNL, ECNL is basically split two ways; ECNL (which is the National league) and ECNL-RL (which is the regional league). Now being in CA you have the advantage that both divisions are primarily going to be playing other CA teams in league play, but even then I imagine some of the distance between clubs in CA might require an overnight stay if you are playing Sat/Sun. ECNL requires you play in two national showcases per year, one is usually always in San Diego but the rest are across the country, it looks like a lot of the CA teams played in Texas this past year from the entry lists. My sons team played Pateadores SC out of California in South Carolina this past December. ECNL-RL usually have more regional showcases and they might even be optional. So just make sure you know up front what is expected. FYI my sons practice is 40 to 50 minutes away depending on which field, thankfully now at 17 he drives himself most of the time but spent a lot of time driving to and sitting at practices over the past 4 years.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

@Chadstroma @SwampDawg

Many thanks for the detailed responses. You guys hit on many things I think about routinely, and have identified things I haven't yet.

We've eliminated option 3. We just can't drive 2 hour round trip 3x/week in addition to our current commute. Too bad because the facility is outstanding and the Director of Coaching and head coach have been very accommodating. In the end, I don't want to waste people's time, particularly theirs.

Chad, thanks for the advice on how to talk about it. My son and I talk regularly, but I haven't done a good job asking him what he wants. I've only laid out scenarios. I need to push some of the thinking on to him more. An issue is he's fickle. He wants to develop and is frustrated by his team's shortcomings one day, and the next day he loves playing with his counterpart wingers and wants to give it another year.

Swamp, I subscribe to a volume of touches approach to development right now, with occasional targeted emphasis on quality of touches. More touches, more touches, more touches. He has practice 2-3x/week, has a small group session 1-2x/week, has 1:1 coaching 1x/every two weeks or so. And I go out with him too to work on things I see need attention. It's a lot right now, partly in preparation for tryouts in early May.

He will try out for at least three clubs. I think it will come down to this. He will join his current club because it offers the added backdoor opportunity to practice with the ECNL team, enhancing his tryout opportunity a year from now. Or he will join the neighboring team where the backdoor opportunity won't exist but the quality of the team play, the league play and probably the coaching is higher, which may also prepare him well for the tryout opportunity a year from now.

In either case, where there are shortcomings, I'll try to supplement it with outside-of-team training.

My lord this is a far cry from what my experience was as a kid...

 

[Chadstroma]

@Chadstroma @SwampDawg

Many thanks for the detailed responses. You guys hit on many things I think about routinely, and have identified things I haven't yet.

We've eliminated option 3. We just can't drive 2 hour round trip 3x/week in addition to our current commute. Too bad because the facility is outstanding and the Director of Coaching and head coach have been very accommodating. In the end, I don't want to waste people's time, particularly theirs.

Chad, thanks for the advice on how to talk about it. My son and I talk regularly, but I haven't done a good job asking him what he wants. I've only laid out scenarios. I need to push some of the thinking on to him more. An issue is he's fickle. He wants to develop and is frustrated by his team's shortcomings one day, and the next day he loves playing with his counterpart wingers and wants to give it another year.

Swamp, I subscribe to a volume of touches approach to development right now, with occasional targeted emphasis on quality of touches. More touches, more touches, more touches. He has practice 2-3x/week, has a small group session 1-2x/week, has 1:1 coaching 1x/every two weeks or so. And I go out with him too to work on things I see need attention. It's a lot right now, partly in preparation for tryouts in early May.

He will try out for at least three clubs. I think it will come down to this. He will join his current club because it offers the added backdoor opportunity to practice with the ECNL team, enhancing his tryout opportunity a year from now. Or he will join the neighboring team where the backdoor opportunity won't exist but the quality of the team play, the league play and probably the coaching is higher, which may also prepare him well for the tryout opportunity a year from now.

In either case, where there are shortcomings, I'll try to supplement it with outside-of-team training.

My lord this is a far cry from what my experience was as a kid...

One thing that has helped me with my kids is that I routinely ask questions... it helps get general conversation between them and I instead of them with their nose in youtube or video games but also it helps me get a good feel for where they are at, their thinking, what they want, what drives them, etc.

Since my kids are multi-sport athletes, one question I often ask is "How do you rank your sports by favorites?" Recent insights on their answers taught me that where before volleyball was my daughters clear favorite, basketball is now a 'close second'. For my middle son, since he started track this spring, he now ranks them Football, Soccer, Basketball, Track and Swim. A little maddenly as he has so much natural talent for swim that it might be his most promising sport so I wished he enjoyed it more but regardless it helps me know how he feels about the sports.

Another question I asked, which was very relevant to your situation, was "Would you rather be a back up riding the bench in basketball or be the star in swimming, which would you choose?" He chose the star so that also helps me get a feel for how he thinks.

I try to ask these questions not in the context of the actual sport... like after practice or something and more conversationally versus fact finding. It really helps to open them up and for me to get a good feel for their thinking, wants, etc outside of making a specific choice. With my kids, as an example, if they are asked to choose "Do you want to go to this sports camp?" I know the calculus being made is how long will that be which means me not playing video games?

 

[acarey50]

Bittersweet day yesterday. My son 's team (16) lost in State Cup - we were the State Cup champions last year, but after several players went up in level to work with the EA and ECNL teams, and then some key players getting injured at the wrong time, we came into the tourney season missing a few too many pieces to truly compete. We did well enough to get through pool play but couldn't keep up yesterday. With that loss and the end of our season, it was my son's final club game.

He's decided that since his goal is not to play in college, he would rather dedicate more time towards his flying and get as many hours as possible over the summer doing that. He will still play his senior season of high school, so he'll be busy with summer league, fall conditioning and the high school season in the winter, just no more club.

Add in that my 13 year old is still in the rehab/recovery stages from his ACL/Meniscus surgery, and all of a sudden it appears that we will have a lot of free weekends.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

An issue I'm grapping with today that I didn't anticipate. I'm feeling a little bit of parent burnout. I worry about my son's burnout, not mine. I'm caught a bit offguard.

 

[Chadstroma]

An issue I'm grapping with today that I didn't anticipate. I'm feeling a little bit of parent burnout. I worry about my son's burnout, not mine. I'm caught a bit offguard.

I get it.

The time, travel, cost.... sitting in uncomfortable benches or haul your own chair/seat cushion thing or if you forget your chair and have to stand the whole soccer game like me yesterday.... it wears.

The only thing that I can say that I focus on and then all of that really doesn't bother me at all is that this is a season. A season that is open for most kids for maybe 10 years, give or take. Once it is over.... it is over until you have grandchildren and can take part of their lives. I remember back to my athletic life as a kid and how it seemed to go by quick (because it ended earlier for me with a blown out knee in 9th grade) and how life moves even faster now. I remember that constantly and it just keeps me in the now and even though I may get work out and tired with it all.... it really keeps me focused on enjoying it. So.... burnout hasn't really happened to me.... a few weekends ago, I had an entire weekend with not a single sport related thing.... it was odd feeling. When my kids are all done with sports, man, that will be a hard transition for me. I am not sure if that will help you but it drives me.

 

[Chadstroma]

Yesterdays game... my son played goalie most of the game. They were 2-0 well into mid way on the second half. They pulled him for a bit and then let him come in on the field. We gave up a goal... not the new goalies fault and it wasn't like my son was making tons of saves before. It was what it was. So, 2-1. A play goes towards the goal... our goalie runs over to the weak side as the ball goes there and pretty much no one is around except for one girl on the other team close behind our goalie. Our goalie reaches down to get the ball and it pretty much looked like they tangled up and both went down or maybe our goalie tripped up and fell and then the other girl fell on top of her. Either way... to me, it didn't look like a foul or anything but the ref who basically didn't call anything all game blew the whistle and they get a free kick. A kid blew the ball right by our goalie and 2-2. The ball goes to half and pretty much as soon as we kicked it he blew the whistle for end of game. 2-2 tie.

My son was pretty adamant that that was not a foul. To me, it didn't look like one either. From my description.... what you guys think? Foul?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Yesterdays game... my son played goalie most of the game. They were 2-0 well into mid way on the second half. They pulled him for a bit and then let him come in on the field. We gave up a goal... not the new goalies fault and it wasn't like my son was making tons of saves before. It was what it was. So, 2-1. A play goes towards the goal... our goalie runs over to the weak side as the ball goes there and pretty much no one is around except for one girl on the other team close behind our goalie. Our goalie reaches down to get the ball and it pretty much looked like they tangled up and both went down or maybe our goalie tripped up and fell and then the other girl fell on top of her. Either way... to me, it didn't look like a foul or anything but the ref who basically didn't call anything all game blew the whistle and they get a free kick. A kid blew the ball right by our goalie and 2-2. The ball goes to half and pretty much as soon as we kicked it he blew the whistle for end of game. 2-2 tie.

My son was pretty adamant that that was not a foul. To me, it didn't look like one either. From my description.... what you guys think? Foul?

I think this is why we have VEO cameras at our games.

A key issue on whether it's a foul (among other possible issues) is who touched the ball first. If he got there first and she proceeded to contact him, then no foul and actually a foul on her. If she makes first contact on the ball and he collides into her before getting contact himself, that seems like a PK to me. Sounds like a play where the vantage point was critical to the call.

 

[Chadstroma]

Yesterdays game... my son played goalie most of the game. They were 2-0 well into mid way on the second half. They pulled him for a bit and then let him come in on the field. We gave up a goal... not the new goalies fault and it wasn't like my son was making tons of saves before. It was what it was. So, 2-1. A play goes towards the goal... our goalie runs over to the weak side as the ball goes there and pretty much no one is around except for one girl on the other team close behind our goalie. Our goalie reaches down to get the ball and it pretty much looked like they tangled up and both went down or maybe our goalie tripped up and fell and then the other girl fell on top of her. Either way... to me, it didn't look like a foul or anything but the ref who basically didn't call anything all game blew the whistle and they get a free kick. A kid blew the ball right by our goalie and 2-2. The ball goes to half and pretty much as soon as we kicked it he blew the whistle for end of game. 2-2 tie.

My son was pretty adamant that that was not a foul. To me, it didn't look like one either. From my description.... what you guys think? Foul?

I think this is why we have VEO cameras at our games.

A key issue on whether it's a foul (among other possible issues) is who touched the ball first. If he got there first and she proceeded to contact him, then no foul and actually a foul on her. If she makes first contact on the ball and he collides into her before getting contact himself, that seems like a PK to me. Sounds like a play where the vantage point was critical to the call.

Clearly our goalie (girl) got to the ball before the bodies hit the floor. We could see that pretty clearly from our angle but the ref would have been seeing it from behind (they would have been running nearly directly away from him).

Not a big deal regardless. I try to instill a mental approach of bad calls or no call etc are going to happen, how do you compete so that that isn't the reason for losing. In most sports that I watch I know enough to say with decent confidence if I get a good look what the rules say. Soccer... not enough for me to say.

 

[SwampDawg]

Yesterdays game... my son played goalie most of the game. They were 2-0 well into mid way on the second half. They pulled him for a bit and then let him come in on the field. We gave up a goal... not the new goalies fault and it wasn't like my son was making tons of saves before. It was what it was. So, 2-1. A play goes towards the goal... our goalie runs over to the weak side as the ball goes there and pretty much no one is around except for one girl on the other team close behind our goalie. Our goalie reaches down to get the ball and it pretty much looked like they tangled up and both went down or maybe our goalie tripped up and fell and then the other girl fell on top of her. Either way... to me, it didn't look like a foul or anything but the ref who basically didn't call anything all game blew the whistle and they get a free kick. A kid blew the ball right by our goalie and 2-2. The ball goes to half and pretty much as soon as we kicked it he blew the whistle for end of game. 2-2 tie.

My son was pretty adamant that that was not a foul. To me, it didn't look like one either. From my description.... what you guys think? Foul?

I think this is why we have VEO cameras at our games.

A key issue on whether it's a foul (among other possible issues) is who touched the ball first. If he got there first and she proceeded to contact him, then no foul and actually a foul on her. If she makes first contact on the ball and he collides into her before getting contact himself, that seems like a PK to me. Sounds like a play where the vantage point was critical to the call.

Clearly our goalie (girl) got to the ball before the bodies hit the floor. We could see that pretty clearly from our angle but the ref would have been seeing it from behind (they would have been running nearly directly away from him).

Not a big deal regardless. I try to instill a mental approach of bad calls or no call etc are going to happen, how do you compete so that that isn't the reason for losing. In most sports that I watch I know enough to say with decent confidence if I get a good look what the rules say. Soccer... not enough for me to say.

As DEADHEAD said the key is who played the ball first, the keeper just getting there isn't enough they have to make a play on the ball and have their hands on it. Honestly sounds like a bang-bang play that probably could have been called either way. Most refs will usually error on the side of protecting the keeper at younger ages so that makes me think he saw something.

 

[The Z Machine]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

 

[Chadstroma]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

The ball was kicked to far side where no one was at. The goalie was playing kinda up to begin with, ran up to get the ball, misjudged it and turned to chase it. So the ball was traveling towards the corner of the field. The ref was about mid field.

It was a bit of a bang bang... what I saw was that the goalie started to go bend down to grab the ball, they tangled their feet in that process and they both crashed down... the goalie did get the ball in that process of the bodies coming down. The only other potential for the play would be that the goalie went down and the offensive player just plowed over her.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

@Chadstroma

I had the conversation with my son. Thus far, I've asked him to focus on his game and I'll handle the program exploration, tryout logistics, etc. As I've touched on, it's a lot. We haven't had the deep down discussion of what he wants. He's told me what he doesn't want, but he hasn't said what his desires are (aside from "I want to play pro").

I asked him yesterday. Told him to think about it. Told him to disregard what I think. Told him to think about what he wants. A bit later, he came to me and said he wants to play with and against players who are better than him. Super. Great answer. And I can work with that.

Thanks for the guidance Chadstroma.

 

[acarey50]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

The ball was kicked to far side where no one was at. The goalie was playing kinda up to begin with, ran up to get the ball, misjudged it and turned to chase it. So the ball was traveling towards the corner of the field. The ref was about mid field.

It was a bit of a bang bang... what I saw was that the goalie started to go bend down to grab the ball, they tangled their feet in that process and they both crashed down... the goalie did get the ball in that process of the bodies coming down. The only other potential for the play would be that the goalie went down and the offensive player just plowed over her.

Clarifying question:

Earlier you said they were awarded a free kick - did they get a free kick, or did they get a PK?

Was the ball definitely in the box?

If they got a free kick from the spot then it’s possible the ball was out of the box and the call was a handball.

If it was in the box and was a PK, then based on the description it sounds like a strange call unless the ref saw it differently, such as the keeper making contact with the striker before going for the ball, etc. resulting in a foul in the box and the awarding of a PK.

 

[The Z Machine]

If they got a free kick from the spot then it’s possible the ball was out of the box and the call was a handball.

I didn't think about that. Quite possible that the goalie handled it outside the box resulting in the free kick and goal.

 

[Chadstroma]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

The ball was kicked to far side where no one was at. The goalie was playing kinda up to begin with, ran up to get the ball, misjudged it and turned to chase it. So the ball was traveling towards the corner of the field. The ref was about mid field.

It was a bit of a bang bang... what I saw was that the goalie started to go bend down to grab the ball, they tangled their feet in that process and they both crashed down... the goalie did get the ball in that process of the bodies coming down. The only other potential for the play would be that the goalie went down and the offensive player just plowed over her.

Clarifying question:

Earlier you said they were awarded a free kick - did they get a free kick, or did they get a PK?

Was the ball definitely in the box?

If they got a free kick from the spot then it’s possible the ball was out of the box and the call was a handball.

If it was in the box and was a PK, then based on the description it sounds like a strange call unless the ref saw it differently, such as the keeper making contact with the striker before going for the ball, etc. resulting in a foul in the box and the awarding of a PK.

I don't know... I don't know what a PK is. They placed the ball right in front of the net and the kid got a free shot one on one with the goalie.... I guess that is a PK?

I would say it was in the box but the field wasn't clearly marked.

 

[acarey50]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

The ball was kicked to far side where no one was at. The goalie was playing kinda up to begin with, ran up to get the ball, misjudged it and turned to chase it. So the ball was traveling towards the corner of the field. The ref was about mid field.

It was a bit of a bang bang... what I saw was that the goalie started to go bend down to grab the ball, they tangled their feet in that process and they both crashed down... the goalie did get the ball in that process of the bodies coming down. The only other potential for the play would be that the goalie went down and the offensive player just plowed over her.

Clarifying question:

Earlier you said they were awarded a free kick - did they get a free kick, or did they get a PK?

Was the ball definitely in the box?

If they got a free kick from the spot then it’s possible the ball was out of the box and the call was a handball.

If it was in the box and was a PK, then based on the description it sounds like a strange call unless the ref saw it differently, such as the keeper making contact with the striker before going for the ball, etc. resulting in a foul in the box and the awarding of a PK.

I don't know... I don't know what a PK is. They placed the ball right in front of the net and the kid got a free shot one on one with the goalie.... I guess that is a PK?

I would say it was in the box but the field wasn't clearly marked.

Yes, that is a PK (penalty kick). Awarded when a foul is committed inside the goal box - often referred to as inside the 18 as in a full size field it comes out to 18 yards.

A free kick is when an infraction occurs outside the box. The defending team must give 10 yards clearance. I won't bother to get into the nuance of direct/indirect free kicks.

Given it was a PK, the ref must have determined that the goalkeeper made a play on the player before playing the ball, assuming that was the only action and the only players involved.

 

[BassNBrew]

My youngest daughter was playing on a competitive 14u team as a 10 year old last year

My now 11 year old daughter just got cut from her 5th grade soccer tryouts

She’s crushed(hell, I’m crushed)

1st time coach(2nd year teacher), who’s never coached soccer before, blah blah blah

Work harder kid

This just doesn't seem possible.

 

[Chadstroma]

Also, why is the ref behind the play? Was he on the endline? That's pretty weird. If ref was in the midfield looking at the goal why was the goalie running toward her own goal?

The ball was kicked to far side where no one was at. The goalie was playing kinda up to begin with, ran up to get the ball, misjudged it and turned to chase it. So the ball was traveling towards the corner of the field. The ref was about mid field.

It was a bit of a bang bang... what I saw was that the goalie started to go bend down to grab the ball, they tangled their feet in that process and they both crashed down... the goalie did get the ball in that process of the bodies coming down. The only other potential for the play would be that the goalie went down and the offensive player just plowed over her.

Clarifying question:

Earlier you said they were awarded a free kick - did they get a free kick, or did they get a PK?

Was the ball definitely in the box?

If they got a free kick from the spot then it’s possible the ball was out of the box and the call was a handball.

If it was in the box and was a PK, then based on the description it sounds like a strange call unless the ref saw it differently, such as the keeper making contact with the striker before going for the ball, etc. resulting in a foul in the box and the awarding of a PK.

I don't know... I don't know what a PK is. They placed the ball right in front of the net and the kid got a free shot one on one with the goalie.... I guess that is a PK?

I would say it was in the box but the field wasn't clearly marked.

Yes, that is a PK (penalty kick). Awarded when a foul is committed inside the goal box - often referred to as inside the 18 as in a full size field it comes out to 18 yards.

A free kick is when an infraction occurs outside the box. The defending team must give 10 yards clearance. I won't bother to get into the nuance of direct/indirect free kicks.

Given it was a PK, the ref must have determined that the goalkeeper made a play on the player before playing the ball, assuming that was the only action and the only players involved.

I can say with confidence the goalie did not "make a play on the player" at all. Sounds like it was not a good call.

Such is life in sports.

 

[SwampDawg]

My youngest daughter was playing on a competitive 14u team as a 10 year old last year

My now 11 year old daughter just got cut from her 5th grade soccer tryouts

She’s crushed(hell, I’m crushed)

1st time coach(2nd year teacher), who’s never coached soccer before, blah blah blah

Work harder kid

I missed this originally and just saw a reply to it. School soccer for the most part is not highly regraded for just this reason, it is often coached by those with no background because they have the time required right after school or whatever. I know for a 5th grader not easy but tell her keep working with her travel program and it will pay off. And no fault of the teacher either, she may have been the only person willing to do it and the other option was no team at all.

That said I have a couple curious questions., how big is your school that they even have school sports in 5th grade yet alone so many kids that they makes cuts? Here is Pennsylvania PIAA doesn't even allow school sports before 7th grade. My other question is about her travel team, and don't take this as a slight on your daughter but a 10 year old, unless they are the next Pulisic has no business making a solid U14 team (which should be 13 year olds) The physical difference is too much, I'd question if your daughter would be better served playing on a more competitive U11 team where she can work on her skills with other quality girls her age. Now there might be other circumstances but that is just what came to mind.

 

[SwampDawg]

Sometimes even a loss can be a good weekend. My sons team played the #3 ranked team in the country according to the Soccer Ranking App this past weekend. They have 9 D1 commits and beat the Unions U17 team that just won the GA cup in a showcase a few months ago. Lost 3-1 but it was a very competitive game, we went up 1-0 like 8 minutes in and held the lead for awhile. They scored two quick goals in about a 5 minute period and I think our boys were a bit shell shocked but held it together and got it to halftime. Second half they were the better team but we had some chances and didn't convert. Only goal was a very questionable PK they were awarded. Overall I felt our boys played really well. We get to play them again in a few weeks away on the road, will see if we can pull off the miracle. They are undefeated so far in league play.

 

[Chadstroma]

Playoff game in the co-ed school team today.

Apparently we are the top seed and had a bye. The team we are playing supposedly has several boys that are on the same club team as one of our best players (who only plays soccer so he is one of the very few boys in that grade that I haven't had a lot of interaction with). They are supposed to be very good and have their club team goalie.

We shall see. I think we tied one game and lost one game and then the rest of the games we slaughtered the teams (I think our last game was 9-0).

 

[Chadstroma]

Playoff game in the co-ed school team today.

Apparently we are the top seed and had a bye. The team we are playing supposedly has several boys that are on the same club team as one of our best players (who only plays soccer so he is one of the very few boys in that grade that I haven't had a lot of interaction with). They are supposed to be very good and have their club team goalie.

We shall see. I think we tied one game and lost one game and then the rest of the games we slaughtered the teams (I think our last game was 9-0).

And.... we lost. 4-1

A very good team. They has several boys that we very good. They were also very physical and the refs let it go mostly... our boys are more finesse type players and got bullied all game long. However, the big difference that swung it in their favor was that they had a girl on their team who could hold her own against any boy on the field and win her fair share too. She had a very strong leg. She would cherry pick down on our side of the field and then if they got the ball to her and our one really good defender wasn't there she would get a good shot on goal.

We struck first. My son played goalie and he had numerous saves (that is what it is called, right? or is that Hockey?). Their first goal was a penalty where apparently one of our boys kicked it and my son picked it up. Apparently you can not do that? So they had a shot like a few feet in front of the net. Kicked it over to one of the other boys and he kicked it right over the heads of a few of our players that had lined up. Went into the half 1-1. Then they got a couple of shots on goal that were just really good kicks getting them high and away from my son. He had no chance of stopping those. The last goal, he got his hands on it but it deflected up and above him into the goal.

There is one kid on our team that only played one game all season (not sure why). He was the best on our team and would have been noticeably the best player on the field if he played but he wasn't there. I think it would have been a very different game if he was there. We also were missing one of our better defenders. But that is sports. You play with what you got and get the win or loss and go home.

I will say though that my son was easily the best goalie that we saw all season long from any of the other teams and not very close. He consistently did well on stops and he has a good leg too... consistently kicking the ball past half field on the goalie kicks (don't know if that is what they are called but the punt like kicks the goalies do).

 

[B Maverick]

We struck first. My son played goalie and he had numerous saves (that is what it is called, right? or is that Hockey?). Their first goal was a penalty where apparently one of our boys kicked it and my son picked it up. Apparently you can not do that? So they had a shot like a few feet in front of the net. Kicked it over to one of the other boys and he kicked it right over the heads of a few of our players that had lined up. Went into the half 1-1. Then they got a couple of shots on goal that were just really good kicks getting them high and away from my son. He had no chance of stopping those. The last goal, he got his hands on it but it deflected up and above him into the goal.

Yes "Save" is correct, just like Hockey.

And the keeper can not use his hands if his team intentionally passes the ball back to him. If he does it is an indirect free kick (means two people have to touch the ball before it goes in the goal)

 

[Chadstroma]

We struck first. My son played goalie and he had numerous saves (that is what it is called, right? or is that Hockey?). Their first goal was a penalty where apparently one of our boys kicked it and my son picked it up. Apparently you can not do that? So they had a shot like a few feet in front of the net. Kicked it over to one of the other boys and he kicked it right over the heads of a few of our players that had lined up. Went into the half 1-1. Then they got a couple of shots on goal that were just really good kicks getting them high and away from my son. He had no chance of stopping those. The last goal, he got his hands on it but it deflected up and above him into the goal.

Yes "Save" is correct, just like Hockey.

And the keeper can not use his hands if his team intentionally passes the ball back to him. If he does it is an indirect free kick (means two people have to touch the ball before it goes in the goal)

I am pretty sure my son didn't know that. He has only played organized soccer with the school team, and it is kind of a joke of a season. Last year, we didn't even have a single practice (went undefeated until the championship game). I think including this playoff we have played like 6 or 7 games this season. I like it because it scratches his soccer itch, gives me a breather from the much busier and more hectic Fall and Winter seasons and he gets to have fun with his friends.

The school's football and basketball program as well as league is on club level with commitment, practice time, level of play, etc. With soccer the league isn't run as well as the other sports and then there has been a steady decline over the last three years in terms of schools fielding teams and even the number of kids playing on our teams to the point that they went co-ed this year or wouldn't have had soccer.

I did look into club soccer for him before as soccer was his favorite sport when younger (replaced by football) but he still really likes playing soccer.... but the time commitment and year-round was just way too much when he already does football, basketball, soccer, track (with school) and club swim. If he did do club soccer, he would be pretty good, I think. Like I mentioned above, easily the best goalie of any team we saw but even when on the field, he isn't too far behind the best of our club players that we have on the team. A lot of comments from parents of the kids that play club soccer about how well he played as goalie and impressive some of his saves were. But it would be too much, and he would have to drop swim likely to make it work and since he can play soccer at school, that didn't make sense. One of his friends was trying to convince him to do Cross Country in the fall too, it would be 'doable' but it would be a lot. Plus, he is more of a sprinter than long distance runner. If he wanted to, he would have to try to convince his mother to do it. Good luck to him.

But for soccer.... it is over for us until next Spring for another pretty relaxed, likely co-ed season.

 

[SwampDawg]

But for soccer.... it is over for us until next Spring for another pretty relaxed, likely co-ed season.

I can't believe at that age they are still playing co-ed. Around here co-ed stops at U9 for any club and no schools do co-ed sports outside golf. In middle school there was one girl who played on a boys team we played but like the one you mentioned she could hold her own and I think her school had a co-op for the girls with another school so she played with the boys.

 

[Chadstroma]

But for soccer.... it is over for us until next Spring for another pretty relaxed, likely co-ed season.

I can't believe at that age they are still playing co-ed. Around here co-ed stops at U9 for any club and no schools do co-ed sports outside golf. In middle school there was one girl who played on a boys team we played but like the one you mentioned she could hold her own and I think her school had a co-op for the girls with another school so she played with the boys.

This was the first year they went to co-ed. It was either that or no soccer. Schools couldn't field whole teams for boys or girls. Even with co-ed the number of schools in the league was ridiculously low compared to football or basketball. For whatever the reasons.... the catholic league school soccer is on life support around here.

Our girls were good for the girls (don't mean to be sexist but comparing to the other girls we played against with the exception of the girl we just played) but they usually wouldn't fair well against the boys. A couple of them scored goals during the season. The one exception was this girl we just played. She was dang good. I wouldn't say she was the best player on the field but she would have been in the conversation. She cherry picked the entire game and maybe not very good at dribbling but when she got a decent look at the goal.... she would kick hard and have good placement. Several of her kicks bounced off the bar. Several more were just too high and sailed over. A little more accuracy and we would have lost like 9-1 and it would have been all her.

This is my only view into the soccer world. I asked before in this thread if soccer was in decline (and that caused an uproar) because I have clearly seen a significant drop in our school and the other schools as well in soccer. I don't know if it is just a local thing (southwest burbs and southwest Chicago) or maybe some have decided to focus on club but in past years there was always a couple of club players on teams. We did lose two of our better players this year.... one because he was doing club soccer, school track, and school volleyball so they opted out because it was be too much. The other because the father got pissed that in the championship game last year we didn't coach to win until the very end and instead went with the 'get all the kids equal time' in rotations until too late in the game when they put all our best players in to try to come back. Other boys have dropped out from 3rd to 4th to 5th but they were not very good so it may have been them knowing they weren't good or not liking the sport or focusing on other things that like more, etc. For the other schools.... I dunno. But it has been a trend over the last three years and for all levels from 3rd to 8th and from all the various schools too. No outliers.

 

[SwampDawg]

This is my only view into the soccer world. I asked before in this thread if soccer was in decline (and that caused an uproar) because I have clearly seen a significant drop in our school and the other schools as well in soccer. I don't know if it is just a local thing (southwest burbs and southwest Chicago) or maybe some have decided to focus on club but in past years there was always a couple of club players on teams. We did lose two of our better players this year.... one because he was doing club soccer, school track, and school volleyball so they opted out because it was be too much. The other because the father got pissed that in the championship game last year we didn't coach to win until the very end and instead went with the 'get all the kids equal time' in rotations until too late in the game when they put all our best players in to try to come back. Other boys have dropped out from 3rd to 4th to 5th but they were not very good so it may have been them knowing they weren't good or not liking the sport or focusing on other things that like more, etc. For the other schools.... I dunno. But it has been a trend over the last three years and for all levels from 3rd to 8th and from all the various schools too. No outliers.

So it's kind of hard for me to answer your question because it's either an area thing or the fact you are Catholic school based that you are in a much different environment. Around here there are no school sports until 7th grade even for the parochial schools (maybe they do in the city of Philadelphia but not in the suburbs). By us all the youth sports are run by youth organizations, many are divided by school district but some do overlap. Some like where I am at we have separate Youth Baseball, Soccer, Softball, Boys Basketball and Girls Basketball organizations. Football is combined with the next town over but also separate. Some areas like the one just south of us have one youth sports organization that oversees them all. Regardless you usually see the same parents involved because well that is just the way it is. So while my kids are a few years removed from that age we still do have friends involved at that age group and since I was president of youth baseball association for 4 years I still hear about what goes on there. Soccer and Basketball are still both strong, numbers are down a couple percent but that actually matches the school enrollment so it is equal to the population of kids in the area fluctuating. Baseball took the biggest hit probably 5 or 6 years ago, between my older sons group and my younger sons (2003 and 2006 birth years) the interest in baseball seemed to take a hit. Kids just weren't interested in it and we are talking from Tee-ball on up. From what I have heard percentage of school aged kids playing has stabilized but for example at 10U for my older son they had 4 in-house teams, my younger son it dropped to three one year and two the next and has stayed mostly at two since then I believe, so that is a 50% drop when maybe the drop in kids that age is 10%. It was the first sport my younger son dropped when he wanted to focus on soccer more, not enough running and actual athletic speed for him, he played basketball through 8th grade and had he not been vertically challenged (he's 5'6" entering his senior year) he may have even continued to play just in school.

High school soccer is still decent number wise around here, what isn't decent is the quality and talking to people all over the place when we travel that seems pretty universal. My feeling is you have a few reasons for that. First and foremost, school soccer means nothing to colleges so your best players either aren't allowed to play (if they play for an MLS Next team) or decided not to play and risk injury or give themselves a few months off. Perfect example, my son was at a college ID session yesterday. After they were done the head coach is telling them different things and he mentioned keeping him informed of their club teams schedules and what showcases that they will be at because they like to see them play in that environment as well as their clinics. Never once did he mention high school schedule. In all the various conversations and ID clinics he has gone to exactly one coach has asked what high school that he went to and that is a fairly local college that from his address they would have known he was close by and I think it was more of a conversation starter. But they all ask what club you play for and what league you play in. My son is actually undecided if he is going to play for his school his senior year, he is leaning toward it because it is the last time to play with his friends he started playing with but realistically it means nothing to his recruitment, the high school game has horrible officiating and his most important showcase start about 4 weeks after the high school season (less depending on playoffs) do you want to risk injury, even just a hamstring pull or a sprain? This I feel is different in soccer then any other sport, football is all high school there is no club level that I am aware of. Basketball while AAU is king in being seen high school basketball is still pretty competitive with parochial schools recruiting players and some powerhouse programs and areas of the country that you can see kids against good competition, maybe not as good as AAU tournaments but good enough to tell. Maybe is you have a 6'5" kid in Montana playing against a bunch of 5'9" future ranchers it won't but in the hotbeds of basketball it is still worth college coaches going to games. Baseball you can look at a pitcher and clock his fastball and watch the movement of his curve if he is throwing to a kid that can hit or not, obviously you see more when they play against better competition but there are measurables you can see anywhere. Hockey might be the one sports like soccer, around here a few schools have hockey, usually made up of kids from various neighboring schools as a co-op but I am just guessing it is no where near the level of the club hockey teams and probably not used. Secondly HS soccer coaching is very wide ranging and suspect, there are some very good high school coaches, but there are a lot that because of the time that they need to be there it is either a teacher with an interest in the sport or some local that maybe played HS soccer 25 years ago that has the time and is willing to coach. When our school was looking to replace the required coaches I suggested they talk to local clubs about up and coming coaches and make sure they ask what level coaching certificate they have from US Soccer or UEFA and you would have thought I was talking Greek to the AD.

So that was a long winded answer but basically from what I see on the youth level, especially at your age groups, soccer is doing well and the same as it has been (if hosting the World Cup will provide a boost is a whole different debate). But at the school level, especially high school, I think there are some issues.

 

[Chadstroma]

So that was a long winded answer but basically from what I see on the youth level, especially at your age groups, soccer is doing well and the same as it has been (if hosting the World Cup will provide a boost is a whole different debate). But at the school level, especially high school, I think there are some issues.

The Catholic schools here are K (or Pre-K) through 8th. I have wondered if back in the day it was just Jr HIgh sports and then the AD's decided to get the younger kids involved. Our school has football (3-8), basketball (3-8), soccer (3-8), volleyball (4-8), track and field (5-8), golf (use to be just 8th but they just started younger this last year though not sure how low the grades are on that now), cheerleading (3-8), cross country (I think 4-8) and this last year we started a flag football for 1st and 2nd graders (I coached and my goodness am I happy that my son is now in 3rd grade this next year because I don't know if I could survive another round of herding those little monsters). Our school is very competitive, and we often do well in many sports. Our Cheerleading is actually the most winningest Cheerleading program in the state of Illinois- 20 straight state Championships. (that program is no joke... those girls have a huge commitment and work very hard... even the little ones). The different leagues have different school members. Some schools are not involved in as many sports as we are. I don't think the other Catholic schools we interact with have track and field and gold programs. Most don't have flag football as that is just getting off the ground. There was only about 4 schools including us doing it. For basketball, volleyball and soccer- the best players often do both school and club teams.

Besides that, the sports scene is probably very similar to most other sports scenes around the country. As you described, some areas may do it a little differently than others. For my city, we don't really have a rec league for any sports. The recreation department 'partners' with outside providers. One organization runs a baseball, basketball, and volleyball leagues that would be the 'rec leagues' and they also run travel baseball and basketball teams in that same organization. A separate organization runs a 'rec league' soccer and a different organization runs a separate club team. For football, there is a club team and then our school team. (a big reason we started the flag football was that some our students would go play flag football at the club team and then stay there... one of our better players was actually on the club team in 3rd grade but then in 4th, the father let them know that he would miss the first couple of weeks of practice for the season due to family vacation. They said that he would not start then. So, they pulled him from there and he played with our team.) Unlike other sports, football is choose one or the other.

For me growing up in So Cal, there were no sports in school until Jr High except their was a track and field event that the district did among the various elementary schools. I absolutely LOVE that the school has these programs. I can see the kids get closer and enjoy themselves more because of it. Because the school is smaller than public schools, there is already a much stronger sense of community but the sports really reinforces it. It also let's my sons (my daughter got pretty focused on basketball and volleyball with no interest outside those sports) get involved in multiple sports that if we just had rec/club options maybe they wouldn't get to do. It really does go a long way to make the school that much more special (and this is from a guy who was opposed to us sending our kids to a Catholic school when first deciding where our oldest went).

As I mentioned before, the football and basketball programs are on level with club teams. Soccer, not so much (not at all really), and I think that may be one of the reasons it has seemingly been dying. Spring in the Chicago area can be nasty and a ton of games/practices get cancelled or rescheduled because of weather. You can have anything from snow/sleet with high winds and cold temps to a rather hot day in the sun. I assume the club soccer teams are just fine. I know that a few of our boys that play club would end up playing their club teammates on some teams. I saw a picture yesterday of the day before.... it was of the team in 3rd grade. Almost half of the boys that played in that grade are not playing now. I mentioned two of the better players did not play this year... one because he was already busy with school track and volleyball as well as club soccer and the other because the father couldn't handle that we didn't play to win the championship last season until the very end when it was too late. The other boys... I am not sure but they were mostly boys that were not very good at soccer. I just really find it interesting though that it isn't just our school and the other thing I find interesting is that the dramatic decline over just the last 3 years at all levels- not just our kids age. Not to say that that is saying something about soccer but it is just very odd to me that in a short period of time the entire soccer league seemed to go downhill so fast that not only we but other schools couldn't field a full boys only and girls only team and had to make it co-ed or not have soccer. Since it isn't just our school there has to be reasons that impact a large area of schools for this to happen and it must be something that has changed within the last couple of years. It is just very odd. I find it interesting.... I guess I am just an oddball that likes to think about the rise and fall of youth soccer in southwestern Chicago area Catholic schools.

 

[SwampDawg]

So that was a long winded answer but basically from what I see on the youth level, especially at your age groups, soccer is doing well and the same as it has been (if hosting the World Cup will provide a boost is a whole different debate). But at the school level, especially high school, I think there are some issues.

The Catholic schools here are K (or Pre-K) through 8th. I have wondered if back in the day it was just Jr HIgh sports and then the AD's decided to get the younger kids involved.

So is it just the Catholic schools there that have schools sports for kids that young or do the public schools as well? That would probably explain the big differences. We are only an hour outside Philly but we have one Catholic school for the whole county and I believe they are only grade 6 to 12. Their are a few smaller schools that feed into them that are grade K-5 but those are run I believe by the local parrish (is that the correct term?) but most of the kids that go to the Catholic high schools go to public school until at least 6th grade, most probably through 8th grade and then make the switch.

 

[Chadstroma]

So is it just the Catholic schools there that have schools sports for kids that young or do the public schools as well? That would probably explain the big differences. We are only an hour outside Philly but we have one Catholic school for the whole county and I believe they are only grade 6 to 12. Their are a few smaller schools that feed into them that are grade K-5 but those are run I believe by the local parrish (is that the correct term?) but most of the kids that go to the Catholic high schools go to public school until at least 6th grade, most probably through 8th grade and then make the switch.

Some public schools do have basketball programs down to grade 3 or 4. We played some in tournaments (I purposely entered the tournaments that had us playing the public school teams versus the tournaments where we would play the same Catholic school teams that we play in league play) and there is also a couple of teams in our Catholic league that are from CPS (Chicago Public Schools) schools- I think they pool them from areas of schools rather than one school though as the teams are "Southwest" and "Northwest". We played a Southwest team in the championship game this year for my 5th grade boys.

Other than that, I think it is pretty much Jr High for sports in public schools. I couldn't say definitively but I haven't seen it. For Track and Field, we only played against public schools but they were all Jr Highs so sometimes our 5th graders would get smoked (but I got to say, they held their own the whole season for the most part)

Where I grew up there were not a lot of Catholic schools at all.... not a lot of Catholics outside of the Hispanic population. In the Chicago area, there is a ton of Catholics and plenty of Catholic schools. There are at least 7 Catholic high schools in about a 30 min drive from us *actually 8 but 1 is boys only and the other is girls only. There may be more because I just found out about a Catholic HS that I didn't know existed until earlier this school year. Our school mostly feeds into one of those HS's. I would say 45% go to the one feeder HS, 35% got to public schools. And the remainder is split between the other various Catholic HS's in the area. Or at least judging from what I have seen and heard on kids plans for HS.