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YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE SUSPENDED! (1 Viewer)

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tonydead said:
Anyone going to address the hiding of posts with no explanation that appear to be consistent with the rules?
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Here are the reasons that some posts get hidden:

1. They contain suspension-worthy content and the moderator is too lazy to give a suspension, so just hides the post instead, which is easier.

2. They contain off-topic content which isn't bad enough to draw a suspension, but is off-topic in a way that is likely to derail the thread.

Those are the only reasons that posts get hidden (or have ever been hidden) by moderators. There is no other reason that I'm aware of. (People can hide their own posts for whatever reasons they want.)

Not every post in category #2 will be hidden, even if a moderator sees it. Sometimes off-topic posts are interesting enough to lead to a worthwhile tangent. Sometimes they are humorous enough to add worthwhile entertainment value.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Here are the reasons that some posts get hidden:

1. They contain suspension-worthy content and the moderator is too lazy to give a suspension, so just hides the post instead, which is easier.

2. They contain off-topic content which isn't bad enough to draw a suspension, but is off-topic in a way that is likely to derail the thread.

Those are the only reasons that posts get hidden by moderators. There is no other reason that I'm aware of. (People can hide their own posts for whatever reasons they want.)

Not every post in category #2 will be hidden, even if a moderator sees it. Sometimes off-topic posts are interesting enough to lead to a worthwhile tangent. Sometimes they are humorous enough to add worthwhile entertainment value.
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The topic several times this past week has been the morality of these politicians.  That introduces religion and several posts were similar to "What's God's take on adultery?"  I responded to them by saying that "It's on par with gay sex".  From a Roman Christian standpoint that is a fair and truthful comparison.  My post was deleted both times, the other was not.

1 - I don't think either of those posts are against the rules the way I understand them.

2 - If the morality of these politicians was off-topic then both posts should have been hidden.

On the surface it appears the moderator didn't want us to question Buttigieg's christian morality while it's perfectly ok to question Trump's.

 
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Bozeman Bruiser said:
Great post. Took courage and likely resulted in your termination.

Joe is in a tough spot. He knows this sub forum is a fringe minority but it generates the most traffic on the site. Hard to turn that down. Money is money at the end of the day, regardless of how many subscriptions you sell or Thursday BBQs you hold.

And in his words, his long time friends are mods and  above reproach. Even if they don't post here they have authority to subjectively dictate who is allowed to post.

If you happen to disagree with the majority every post may be your last.

The irony is that a good number of posters here mock Joe and his beliefs on side boards (e). He is too nice to believe it or do anything about it.

Also ironic, he asked people not to manipulate quotes from other posters. Meanwhile, one of his mods altered the board software to change a common phrase (OMB) to a deranged rant: Donald Trump is an awful human being and a terrible President

(Yes Joe, one of your mods rigged the Invision software to alter posts into something that would likely result in a suspension if the same were said about a Democrat)

Good luck wherever you land KC, and if you decide/are allowed back we welcome you. Now more than ever FBG needs minority voices who dare to speak out for what is right.
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:e: has been shut down for years.  it did not overlap the creation of the PSF.  

 
Megla said:
Why does anyone here "owe" another poster anything???

If someone wants to reply with an emoji only what's the problem, if they want to reply with a standard phrase or abbreviation, whats the problem? 

No one owes you a link, an explanation or a thought out response, if you get one great, engage that poster, if not, move on to one that did.

Such thin skin around here.
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aka Ignore feature

 
tonydead said:
The topic several times this past week has been the morality of these politicians.  That introduces religion and several posts were similar to "What's God's take on adultery?"  I responded to them by saying that "It's on par with gay sex".  From a Roman Christian standpoint that is a fair and truthful comparison.  My post was deleted both times, the other was not.

1 - I don't think either of those posts are against the rules the way I understand them.

2 - If the morality of these politicians was off-topic then both posts should have been hidden.

On the surface it appears the moderator didn't want us to question Buttigieg's christian morality while it's perfectly ok to question Trump's.
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Do you know what thread that was in? I just looked in the Buttigieg thread going back to Feb 10 and didn't see it.

 
tonydead said:
Just using the search function I'm pretty sure this is one of the posts I responded to.
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I don't have a good answer for you. I didn't see anything in the pages following that post. I did a search for gay sex and no posts by you came up except for the one in this thread. A hidden post by another poster was shown, so the search function does show me hidden posts in general.

I vaguely remember a report about gay sex and vaguely remember seeing that the reported post got hidden, but I wasn't paying close attention to that at the time (and don't second-guess other moderators as a rule) and I can't find it now.

In general, I think pointing out that adultery and homosexuality are treated similarly in some respects in the Bible is obviously fine. But I can also imagine how, depending on phrasing, the point might have seemed more salacious than serious to some.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
A few quick thoughts.

I agree OMB shouldn't be changed to anything. I don't know how that happened but it was a mistake. The principle of not changing quotes is important and that goes against what I want. We'll change it. 
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Let me suggest that whichever mod made that decision probably shouldn't be a mod here anymore. My two cents...

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There are a number of annoying phrases used to describe the President that are automatically sanitized.

“Orange man bad” is an annoying phrase that was repeated way too often. I changed it to a less annoying phrase that means the same thing.
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A very unwise and unfair decision on your part. And I'm not a Trump voter or supporter 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I don't have a good answer for you. I didn't see anything in the pages following that post. I did a search for gay sex and no posts by you came up except for the one in this thread. A hidden post by another poster was shown, so the search function does show me hidden posts in general.

I vaguely remember a report about gay sex and vaguely remember seeing that the reported post got hidden, but I wasn't paying close attention to that at the time (and don't second-guess other moderators as a rule) and I can't find it now.

In general, I think pointing out that adultery and homosexuality are treated similarly in some respects in the Bible is obviously fine. But I can also imagine how, depending on phrasing, the point might have seemed more salacious than serious to some.
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Thank for spending the time. I don’t really care so please don’t waste anymore. 

The phrasing was exactly as I stated and and placed shortly after the post I linked. It is what it is, it happens all the time.  

 
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Joe Bryant said:
A few quick thoughts.

I agree OMB shouldn't be changed to anything. I don't know how that happened but it was a mistake. The principle of not changing quotes is important and that goes against what I want. We'll change it. 

Mods are not above reproach, never have been above reproach and nobody ever said they were above reproach.

People disagree all the time here. We ask people to be cool when they disagree. Your post is an example. 

I can't worry much about what people say about me outside of here. 

I've spent a lot of time trying to encourage 'minority" voices here. It's why I've asked repeatedly for the Trump supporters to be cool and understand the majority status they have here. It's also why I've tried to encourage discussion with "minority" opinions like @NorvilleBarnes recent post. 

BBQ's are Wednesdays.
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This place must have been pretty wild the past few years I've been away. 

Also that BBQ looks amazing.

Also  :eek:  at logging in and seeing a notice "Joe Bryant mentioned you in a thread YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE SUSPENDED"  lol

 
What I’m getting out of this is that there must be a ton of reported posts if @Maurile Tremblay doesn’t recall @tonydead’s example. 

MT, is it possible to get a metric on how many reports there are per day or per week? Can you share some numbers with us? Only if it’s easy, of course. I’m thinking maybe we can then challenge ourselves by setting a goal to reduce the number of reports in a week. Maybe if we reach the goal, we get a pizza party. Or an extra recess. Like in 2nd grade since that’s apparently who we are. 

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
There are no hidden posts after the post you linked though. Hard to explain if we can’t even confirm what’s being discussed. 
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Convenient. I'm guessing there is a delete button too?  Or maybe someone wrote some code to do it automatically, I mean who knows anymore since it's true code was written to actually change posts without Joe's knowledge. I saw it twice with my own eyes. 

But - I think I can prove it.  You know how if someone likes your post, you get a notification?  And if later that post is hidden/deleted that notification is still there. And if you click on that notification it takes you to the top of the page instead of the post that is no longer there. 

Goto my notifications and click on the notification from @knowledge dropper at 3:30pm on Sunday.  Try to find the post he liked. 

 
tonydead said:
Convenient. I'm guessing there is a delete button too?  Or maybe someone wrote some code to do it automatically, I mean who knows anymore since it's true code was written to actually change posts without Joe's knowledge. I saw it twice with my own eyes. 

But - I think I can prove it.  You know how if someone likes your post, you get a notification?  And if later that post is hidden/deleted that notification is still there. And if you click on that notification it takes you to the top of the page instead of the post that is no longer there. 

Goto my notifications and click on the notification from @knowledge dropper at 3:30pm on Sunday.  Try to find the post he liked. 
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Oh I see more posts vanishing. I'll just @ a few people before my argument vanishes off the planet. @Maurile Tremblay @Joe Bryant @GoBirds @HellToupee

 
Megla said:
Why does anyone here "owe" another poster anything???

If someone wants to reply with an emoji only what's the problem, if they want to reply with a standard phrase or abbreviation, whats the problem? 

No one owes you a link, an explanation or a thought out response, if you get one great, engage that poster, if not, move on to one that did.

Such thin skin around here.
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:goodposting:

This is truly amazing how certain posters need and get all these new rules set for them to report the other side when its so insignificant and childish. 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I know I can't ask you to link to a vanished post, but can you describe what you're talking about?
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I was done with this when I thanked you and asked you not waste any more time. Until Aaron quoted me. Look 3 posts above your latest. 

His post that I quoted is gone. You dont see it between dgreens and mine do you?  Yes I know thats his prerogative, just found it very interesting. 

In my response to him was how I think I can prove a post of mine was deleted:

tonydead said:
But - I think I can prove it.  You know how if someone likes your post, you get a notification?  And if later that post is hidden/deleted that notification is still there. And if you click on that notification it takes you to the top of the page instead of the post that is no longer there. 

Goto my notifications and click on the notification from @knowledge dropper at 3:30pm on Sunday.  Try to find the post he liked. 
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Would you agree its impossible to get a like for a post that never existed? 

 
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Look I dont really care, I've said that several times. This is your playground. It's purely time waste for me. 

And I usually think @Bozeman Bruiser is a little on the extreme side (sorry boze), but, hes spot on here.  Some of the mods are pulling :e: type hijinks in here. Just be honest about it.  Be honest to Joe about it. 

 
tonydead said:
Look I dont really care, I've said that several times. This is your playground. It's purely time waste for me. 

And I usually think @Bozeman Bruiser is a little on the extreme side (sorry boze), but, hes spot on here.  Some of the mods are pulling :e: type hijinks in here. Just be honest about it.  Be honest to Joe about it. 
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In my opinion, you are reaching to turn this into some kind of unfair, politically biased moderator conspiracy theory when there are more simple explanations for all of it.

 
What a lot of useless discussion in here. This is really simple:

1. Stop wasting the mods time with crap. Report something if it’s REALLY REALLY offensive. If it isn’t don’t do it. 

2. Stop whining that “your side” is getting the short end of the stick. The mods don’t care about your side. They don’t care about my side. Stop complaining. 

3. Grow up already! 

 
tonydead said:
I was done with this when I thanked you and asked you not waste any more time. Until Aaron quoted me. Look 3 posts above your latest. 

His post that I quoted is gone. You dont see it between dgreens and mine do you?  Yes I know thats his prerogative, just found it very interesting.
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Aaron sent me a message saying that he found out from the Invision software that six posts had been deleted from the Buttigieg thread by another moderator, so that explains why yours is gone. There is a "hide" button that we normally use, and a "delete" button that, as far as I know, generally isn't used. But I suppose I wouldn't know for sure because how would I notice a deleted post? (Hidden posts are still visible to moderators; deleted posts are gone forever.)

I wrote Aaron back saying thanks, but it no longer matters because the discussion about it had been dropped.

Then I came in here and noticed that the discussion had been revived.

So I suppose Aaron got my message and came in here to delete his post to prevent any further resurrection. I don't know. I'm confident it was nothing dastardly.

tonydead said:
In my response to him was how I think I can prove a post of mine was deleted:

Would you agree its impossible to get a like for a post that never existed? 
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Nobody disputes that your post once existed. I (vaguely) remember having seen it.

I know that doesn't solve all outstanding mysteries, but I think it's as far as we can go. :cool:

 
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Juxtatarot said:
In my opinion, you are reaching to turn this into some kind of unfair, politically biased moderator conspiracy theory when there are more simple explanations for all of it.
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Well, I want to cop to likely bias (though not exactly political bias) in changing "orangemanbad" to "Donald Trump is an awful president and a terrible human being." (Thank you to whoever pointed out the improper capitalization of president.)

I'll share my thought process. Megla asked earlier today if I thought the two phrases were comparable and I said yes, but comparable doesn't mean identical. They are different in two important respects. (If they were identical, I wouldn't have bothered substituting one for the other.)

First, "orangemanbad" is, to me, the much more repulsive phrase, which is why I wanted to replace it with something more sanitized. I don't like Donald Trump. But he is my president and I genuinely hate seeing people disparaged for their physical looks. Denouncing Trump for his skin color isn't as bad as denouncing Obama for his due to the historical baggage involved, but both are bad. I want to see people post something more substantive than just abusive epithets. It doesn't matter which side it comes from, and it doesn't matter whether it's meant ironically or bitterly. If I see people mocking Trump for being orange, I will at the very least hide their posts.

The other difference, though, is that "awful" and "terrible" are worse than "bad." So a better auto-correct would have been simply "President Trump is bad." Why did I go for the "awful" and "terrible" instead? I think my conscious reasoning was that I had to intensify the "bad" to make up for deleting the "orange" in order to preserve some rough parity in the sentiments of the two phrases. This would have been a bad decision even if that were all there was to it.

But I think a secondary reason, mostly but maybe not completely subconscious, is that I was annoyed at the people constantly saying "orangemanbad" and so I chose language I thought they might be less eager to adopt as their own, just to annoy them back a bit.

That secondary reason made it worse than just a bad decision -- it was really not defensible on my part.

So I screwed up, and I am sorry.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
So I screwed up, and I am sorry.
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I think you're one of the fairest and kindest guys around. You're allowed to mess up every so often when your patience is tried to the extent it must be with this moderation.

I didn't find the incident any part of a larger pattern. I just found it odd. Now that we pulled the cover off of the wizard, it's no big deal. That's my two cents.

 
tonydead said:
Convenient. I'm guessing there is a delete button too?  Or maybe someone wrote some code to do it automatically, I mean who knows anymore since it's true code was written to actually change posts without Joe's knowledge. I saw it twice with my own eyes. 

But - I think I can prove it.  You know how if someone likes your post, you get a notification?  And if later that post is hidden/deleted that notification is still there. And if you click on that notification it takes you to the top of the page instead of the post that is no longer there. 

Goto my notifications and click on the notification from @knowledge dropper at 3:30pm on Sunday.  Try to find the post he liked. 
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Sorry. There were some posts deleted per the logs but I can’t see them so not sure what was said.  That’s why I removed my post. 

 
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tonydead said:
Look I dont really care, I've said that several times. This is your playground. It's purely time waste for me. 

And I usually think @Bozeman Bruiser is a little on the extreme side (sorry boze), but, hes spot on here.  Some of the mods are pulling :e: type hijinks in here. Just be honest about it.  Be honest to Joe about it. 
Click to expand...
Joe is one of the main moderators

 
tonydead said:
Convenient. I'm guessing there is a delete button too?  Or maybe someone wrote some code to do it automatically, I mean who knows anymore since it's true code was written to actually change posts without Joe's knowledge. I saw it twice with my own eyes. 

But - I think I can prove it.  You know how if someone likes your post, you get a notification?  And if later that post is hidden/deleted that notification is still there. And if you click on that notification it takes you to the top of the page instead of the post that is no longer there. 

Goto my notifications and click on the notification from @knowledge dropper at 3:30pm on Sunday.  Try to find the post he liked. 
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For the record, my like was based on the fact @tonydead had, in fact, pulled a biblical example that refuted the poster’s argument.  Believe it or not, I am teaching PSR (Catholic Sunday School).  My like in no way reflects my personal opinion on homosexual relationships.  
 

Carry on. 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Well, I want to cop to likely bias (though not exactly political bias) in changing "orangemanbad" to "Donald Trump is an awful president and a terrible human being." (Thank you to whoever pointed out the improper capitalization of president.)

I'll share my thought process. Megla asked earlier today if I thought the two phrases were comparable and I said yes, but comparable doesn't mean identical. They are different in two important respects. (If they were identical, I wouldn't have bothered substituting one for the other.)

First, "orangemanbad" is, to me, the much more repulsive phrase, which is why I wanted to replace it with something more sanitized. I don't like Donald Trump. But he is my president and I genuinely hate seeing people disparaged for their physical looks. Denouncing Trump for his skin color isn't as bad as denouncing Obama for his due to the historical baggage involved, but both are bad. I want to see people post something more substantive than just abusive epithets. It doesn't matter which side it comes from, and it doesn't matter whether it's meant ironically or bitterly. If I see people mocking Trump for being orange, I will at the very least hide their posts.

The other difference, though, is that "awful" and "terrible" are worse than "bad." So a better auto-correct would have been simply "President Trump is bad." Why did I go for the "awful" and "terrible" instead? I think my conscious reasoning was that I had to intensify the "bad" to make up for deleting the "orange" in order to preserve some rough parity in the sentiments of the two phrases. This would have been a bad decision even if that were all there was to it.

But I think a secondary reason, mostly but maybe not completely subconscious, is that I was annoyed at the people constantly saying "orangemanbad" and so I chose language I thought they might be less eager to adopt as their own, just to annoy them back a bit.

That secondary reason made it worse than just a bad decision -- it was really not defensible on my part.

So I screwed up, and I am sorry.
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Props for this admission, it says a lot (positive) about the type of person you are

Thanks

 
Juxtatarot said:
In my opinion, you are reaching to turn this into some kind of unfair, politically biased moderator conspiracy theory when there are more simple explanations for all of it.
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You're probably right.  But, politically biased?  I should be getting my primary ballot in the mail any day now, and, if I had it today I would probably check the box for Amy.  I'm no fan of Pete's and I know he and Amy dusted it up in the last debate but let's be honest, neither of them is highly favored to win right now.  And I'm far from deciding which direction I'm voting for in November.  No, it's much more likely that my post, and apparently 6 other posts that we are aware of (the post I was able to track back to wasn't even in the Pete thread), were deleted because of political bias.  Deleted, not hidden from everyone but the mods, hidden from everyone.  The equal post against Trump wasn't.  

knowledge dropper said:
For the record, my like was based on the fact @tonydead had, in fact, pulled a biblical example that refuted the poster’s argument.  Believe it or not, I am teaching PSR (Catholic Sunday School).  My like in no way reflects my personal opinion on homosexual relationships.  
 

Carry on. 
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Right, and if my post wasn't deleted because of political bias for Pete then whomever did it must have thought I was taking a negative shot at homosexuality.  Like KD here I want to ensure that wasn't the case.  Anyone familiar with my post history knows I am critical of religion.  If you're going to pit God against any of the candidates then it should be fair game for both sides and Roman Catholicism in principal is against both adultery and gay sex.  For the record, I personally am in favor of any and all sex that is good sex.  That includes gay sex and even adultery as long as you aren't trying to keep secrets from your partner(s), because I am against dishonesty in relationships.  

 
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I mean, sure. But the fact GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles isn’t a reason for Democrats not to do their jobs. 
 

The Democrats just need to realize they have to do so more aggressively.
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I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
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Next time try using IMO

Example : But the fact GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles, imo. 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
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Not a moderator, but I would almost certainly guess it was using dehumanizing language to refer to your political opponents. I agree that it seems heavy handed, but hey, their playground their rules. I got eight months for riffing off of someone else’s joke comparing Trump supporters to the Nazis in an Indiana Jones movie.

By the way, they usually put some kind of a note on your file when you get suspended (he says from experience). Doesn’t generally offer a super detailed explanation but should give you at least some clue as to what set them off

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I'll share my thought process.

[snip]
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Sounds like a classic case of “It seemed like a good idea at the time”.  :doh:

My first job out of college was in the production team of a newspaper. I had to scan and tone photos, and one of the lessons my boss drummed into my head was that you could touch up a photo, but you could never edit it to make it appear like there was something in there that wasn’t in the original (unless it was clearly labeled as a photo illustration.) We never wanted to violate the implicit trust our readers had in us to present facts.

If I may be so bold as to tell you how to do your job, I think that’s probably a good rule of thumb for forum moderation as well. If you’re putting words in people’s posts that they didn’t write, you’re crossing a line

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
Click to expand...
No reason to hold reptiles up to disrepute.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's the "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles" comment with "reptiles" probably being the main offender, "all" being the second offender, "amoral" third, and I had to look up "intransigent" which I guess is fourth. I can't say I've seen you in the political forums a ton so I understand that maybe you missed the memo that the TPS reports shouldn't include comments like that anymore. In general, good conversation isn't encouraged by calling others "reptiles", generalizing certain characteristics to "all" people on a certain side. And, labeling others as lacking moral sense and unwilling to change, even if true, likely just leads to a bunch of "yes you are"/"no I'm not" childish back and forth and isn't showing an attempt to help others or learn from others.

IMO, of course.

 
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