WR Sammy Watkins, BAL (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

Didn't we go through that over 40% of his targets last year were uncatchable?

That he caught 90% of what was catchable?

That would be cause for optimism in my book, unless Tyrod is worse than EJ and Orton in that respect

And the standard retort on rex ryan's former receivers: Were they Sammy Watkins?

I would argue Sammy is a lot closer to Eric Decker than Andre Johnson.

I'd like to hear that argument......

Simple enough, since we obviously aren't taking physical attributes into play:

74 962 5 (bad offense)

65 982 6 (bad offense)

Not being used in this comparison would be Decker putting up 87/1200/11 (with Peyton of course, but that is the point)... beyond what I see is Sammy's ceiling in Buffalo.

Very good, but a far cry from being a gimme top ff WR (like Andre was for so long)

Also not being used in this comparison are numbers from COMPARABLE STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT. In order to make these, you need to conflate the production of a rookie with a third and fifth year player. Does that really make sense? Wouldn't you think it a fallacy if somebody said Manziel could never be better than just good, but never great, because his rookie numbers suffer in the comparison with QBs with 3-5 years experience??? While on the subject, are you being consistent in the criteria you invoke as important, across positions. You claim Watkins looks small. Isn't Manziel? The QB had one of the best freshman seasons in NCAA history statistically, so that should command respect. Watkins had one of the greatest collegiate seasons ever for a freshman WR.

Carter pointed out that by several measures (predigree, rookie production), Watkins has far more in common with Andre Johnson than Decker, and you mentioned the former made Schaub. I don't see the relevance in this context. Are you suggesting that Manuel and Orton "made" Watkins. This just seems like an arbitrary point attempting to explain away the stubborn fact that Johnson and Watkins rookie production was very similar.

Incidentally, you are doing the same kind of conflation with Johnson and Watkins, in suggesting he hasn't done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as a "Hall of Famer". He just did (had a comparable or better ROOKIE season). Why expect a rookie to do what Johnson was doing after 3-5 or more years in the league, when Andre Johnson himself wasn't as a rookie?

Watkins isn't 6'3"-6'5", 220-240 lbs., doesn't run a 4.3 or have a 40" VJ. Jerry Rice is an old school cliche for not having prototypical measurables, but we would need to go back for another, more recent example, no further than, now. Antonio Brown is 3" shorter, 25 lbs. lighter, not as fast as Watkins (like OBJ, ran a 4.43 at combine) and had a decidedly un-David "Skywalker'" Thompson/Darrell "Dr. Dunkenstein" Griffith-like VJ of 33". By your criteria, he should have been doomed to never being more than good, with no possibility for greatness.

The danger of rigidly narrow and restrictive criteria, imo, is that by definition, exceptional talents (if that is what Watkins is, I'm at least open to the possibility) frequently elude and transcend simple measureables attempting to capture them.

* I'm not saying I think Watkns is as good as Johnson. I was never that comfortable with Carter's comp and said so, and thought we could do better in terms of physical stature, athleticism and measureables (to me a mashup of Roddy White and Percy Harvin at their best, if he fulfills his potential, could be one of the top 10 WRs in the league with upside, I'd call that great). But I agree with Carter, if we go by pedigree and *ROOKIE* production, Johnson is much closer. Look at where Decker was drafted, and what he did in his first two seasons, there isn't even a remote semblance upon which a tenable basis of comparison could be made.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Didn't we go through that over 40% of his targets last year were uncatchable?

That he caught 90% of what was catchable?

That would be cause for optimism in my book, unless Tyrod is worse than EJ and Orton in that respect

And the standard retort on rex ryan's former receivers: Were they Sammy Watkins?

I would argue Sammy is a lot closer to Eric Decker than Andre Johnson.

I'd like to hear that argument......

Simple enough, since we obviously aren't taking physical attributes into play:

74 962 5 (bad offense)

65 982 6 (bad offense)

Not being used in this comparison would be Decker putting up 87/1200/11 (with Peyton of course, but that is the point)... beyond what I see is Sammy's ceiling in Buffalo.

Very good, but a far cry from being a gimme top ff WR (like Andre was for so long)

66 catches 976 yards and 4 td's for Andre Johnson in his rookie year.Was AJ a gimmie top ff WR in his rookie year?

We can go back to page 1 if you want.

AJ made Schaub... Watkins is not going to make anyone. He is not the physically dominant specimen AJ was, all there is to it. He will never be that guy.

Decker is the far better comparison (given the two and Decker just came up). Situation, ability, production. This is who Watkins is - a good, even really good WR, - but he isn't and won't ever be AJ.

Well at this stage you are wrong.Based on draft position, hype, physical traits, rookie stats it is definitely makes more sense to say Watkins is on a path closer to AJ than to that of Decker. Will Watkins be as good as AJ that would be tough to do, but Watkins definitely has that type of ceiling. Decker definitely never did.

At this stage Watkins (like Decker) is fighting to be the 3rd/4th best WR from his own draft class.

Get back to us when he has done something that deserves mention in the same sentence as a hall of famer.

So if Jim Kelly was the third best QB in the legendary class of '83, behind Marino and Elway, by definition he couldn't be better than good?You realize the WR class of '14 was historically unprecedented and a complete anomaly? Most rookie classes don't have one 1,000 yard receiver, let alone three (and Watkins was just 18 yards shy). Off the top of my head, Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin and A.J. Green (not sure about Michael Clayton?) are among the rare examples, and they span several decades. Beckham had flat out one of the greatest seasons for a WR, PERIOD, not just among rookies, on a PPG basis. Evans 12 TDs may be #2 in league history among rookies, after Moss (16?). Watkins was very similar to Benjamin, though 3 less TDs. Look at Green's rookie numbers, they stack up very favorably (less than 100 yards apart), and I think he has among if not the best cumulative reception/yardage numbers through two and three seasons in league history.

In the last Olympics, was the third or fourth fastest 100 m. sprinter in the world just "good" and not great because the superhuman Usain Bolt is in the race?

If there was a physics conference attended by Einstein, Bohr, Heisenberg, etc, would the fourth smartest and best theorist in the room (Schroedinger, Dirac?) be automatically, and by definition, no better than a "good" intellect, because he wasn't in the top 3? Isn't it (no pun intended), relative?

 

[Borden]

You shouldn't have added the "no pun intended". It was perfect and made me smile.

 

[Biabreakable]

In standard scoring leagues the average score of WR 12 from 2012-2014 was 176 points. In PPR leagues the average score of WR 12 from 2012-2014 was 262 points.

As a rookie Watkins had 65 receptions 982 yards and 6TD which is 133 points in standard, 198 points in PPR. So he ranked as WR 25 in standard and WR 27 in PPR with those numbers.

If he improves a bit, like bulger2holts projection above of 75 receptions 1200 yards and 8TD that would be 184 points in standard or 259 points in PPR.

184 points in standard is above the 3 year average of WR 12 in standard leagues by 8 points. So he would be a WR1.

259 points in PPR is below the 3 year average of WR 12 in PPR leagues by 3 points. So he would be a WR2 but likely to finish as WR 13-15 or one of the better WR2s.

The situation and supporting cast is not ideal. I think that limits Watkins upside. I do think he can improve on his rookie numbers in 2015 however and should be performing closer to a WR1 in both formats than WR24.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think this is a great example in the difference of peoples evaluations of player talent vs situation in fantasy football.

Some people evaluate players based on their situation with their team and supporting cast in the NFL. Others evaluate players based on the players talents and skills, with the idea that the creme rises to the top. A full player evaluation is a combination of both.

The PPR scoring format is going favor evaluation of the players situation. The volume of targets and opportunity becomes a larger factor in the players value than it would in a standard scoring format.

The standard scoring format is going to favor evaluation of the players talent relative to other players independent of situation.

From a talent based evaluation, I still think Watkins was the best WR prospect of a very good 2014 draft class, and therefore the most likely to put up WR1 numbers based on his talent. However the situation is still very important, and more important in the PPR scoring format than it is in standard.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Somehow people all along this thread have taken away that I am hating on Sammy. Never the case.. I have repeatedly, repeatedly said he is good or very good.

You keep trying to straddle the line between dismissing him and saying enough mildly positive stuff that you can come back in here and claim you weren't wrong about him.

 

[Anarchy99]

A lot of people in this thread are going to look foolish after Sammy blows up this year.

75/1000/8-10 ?

I have his yards higher, but that's about right.

That being said, his ceiling is WR#1 IMHO.

I'd agree with 75/1000/8, wouldnt make anyone look foolish in the least either.

That would be 18 yards and two TD more than last season.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Does anyone really think Taylor can throw the ball effectively for a full game? What are we expecting this Sunday, 200 yards passing?

 

[matuski]

A lot of people in this thread are going to look foolish after Sammy blows up this year.

75/1000/8-10 ?

I have his yards higher, but that's about right.

That being said, his ceiling is WR#1 IMHO.

I'd agree with 75/1000/8, wouldnt make anyone look foolish in the least either.

That would be 18 yards and two TD more than last season.

Yep. A running QB that is going to spread around 200-225 yards a game, a RB that may well eat more receptions than the leading WR, nobody opposite Sammy to take coverage away.

Kinda like last year. Sounds like a reasonable prediction.

Didn't we go through that over 40% of his targets last year were uncatchable?

That he caught 90% of what was catchable?

That would be cause for optimism in my book, unless Tyrod is worse than EJ and Orton in that respect

And the standard retort on rex ryan's former receivers: Were they Sammy Watkins?

I would argue Sammy is a lot closer to Eric Decker than Andre Johnson.

I'd like to hear that argument......

Simple enough, since we obviously aren't taking physical attributes into play:

74 962 5 (bad offense)

65 982 6 (bad offense)

Not being used in this comparison would be Decker putting up 87/1200/11 (with Peyton of course, but that is the point)... beyond what I see is Sammy's ceiling in Buffalo.

Very good, but a far cry from being a gimme top ff WR (like Andre was for so long)

Also not being used in this comparison are numbers from COMPARABLE STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT. In order to make these, you need to conflate the production of a rookie with a third and fifth year player.Does that really make sense? Wouldn't you think it a fallacy if somebody said Manziel could never be better than just good, but never great, because his rookie numbers suffer in the comparison with QBs with 3-5 years experience??? While on the subject, are you being consistent in the criteria you invoke as important, across positions. You claim Watkins looks small. Isn't Manziel? The QB had one of the best freshman seasons in NCAA history statistically, so that should command respect. Watkins had one of the greatest collegiate seasons ever for a freshman WR.

Carter pointed out that by several measures (predigree, rookie production), Watkins has far more in common with Andre Johnson than Decker, and you mentioned the former made Schaub. I don't see the relevance in this context. Are you suggesting that Manuel and Orton "made" Watkins. This just seems like an arbitrary point attempting to explain away the stubborn fact that Johnson and Watkins rookie production was very similar.

Incidentally, you are doing the same kind of conflation with Johnson and Watkins, in suggesting he hasn't done anything to be mentioned in the same breath as a "Hall of Famer". He just did (had a comparable or better ROOKIE season). Why expect a rookie to do what Johnson was doing after 3-5 or more years in the league, when Andre Johnson himself wasn't as a rookie?

Watkins isn't 6'3"-6'5", 220-240 lbs., doesn't run a 4.3 or have a 40" VJ. Jerry Rice is an old school cliche for not having prototypical measurables, but we would need to go back for another, more recent example, no further than, now. Antonio Brown is 3" shorter, 25 lbs. lighter, not as fast as Watkins (like OBJ, ran a 4.43 at combine) and had a decidedly un-David "Skywalker'" Thompson/Darrell "Dr. Dunkenstein" Griffith-like VJ of 33". By your criteria, he should have been doomed to never being more than good, with no possibility for greatness.

The danger of rigidly narrow and restrictive criteria, imo, is that by definition, exceptional talents (if that is what Watkins is, I'm at least open to the possibility) frequently elude and transcend simple measureables attempting to capture them.

* I'm not saying I think Watkns is as good as Johnson. I was never that comfortable with Carter's comp and said so, and thought we could do better in terms of physical stature, athleticism and measureables (to me a mashup of Roddy White and Percy Harvin at their best, if he fulfills his potential, could be one of the top 10 WRs in the league with upside, I'd call that great). But I agree with Carter, if we go by pedigree and *ROOKIE* production, Johnson is much closer. Look at where Decker was drafted, and what he did in his first two seasons, there isn't even a remote semblance upon which a tenable basis of comparison could be made.

Antonio Brown would be a MUCH better comparison.

A damn good receiver, and with a top QB in a high power offense - he becomes an FF king. But he doesn't make Ben... Sammy and Antonio are never going to be that guy because they don't have the physicality, size, strength, etc.

On the Bills, Antonio becomes Sammy Watkins or Eric Decker production-wise.

 

[(HULK)]

110/1400/10 plus a hundo rushing.

Probably won't happen, but that's his ceiling IMO

 

[Milkman]

110/1400/10 plus a hundo rushing.

Probably won't happen, but that's his ceiling IMO

LOL on the Saints maybe.......

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Matuski,

Antonio Brown is not just a good receiver he has been arguably the best WR in the league the last 2 years.

You are using flawed logic to fault players you don't view as elite. You can't fault Brown for having good QB play or if you are going to fault him then you would have to fault Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, etc with that same logic.

In fact you could argue that Antonio Brown has allowed Big Ben to have career years in his 10th and 11th years as a pro because of how good he has been. If Watkins can put up Brown types of numbers this argument is all but over for you seeing as Brown is one of the top 3 WR's in the game right now.

You also ignore that Watkins had a similar rookie year if not better than AJ's rookie year with similarly bad QB play. There is some objective evidence that you are ignoring and are using subjective evidence that is not helping you out much.

 

[bulger2holt]

In standard scoring leagues the average score of WR 12 from 2012-2014 was 176 points. In PPR leagues the average score of WR 12 from 2012-2014 was 262 points.

As a rookie Watkins had 65 receptions 982 yards and 6TD which is 133 points in standard, 198 points in PPR. So he ranked as WR 25 in standard and WR 27 in PPR with those numbers.

If he improves a bit, like bulger2holts projection above of 75 receptions 1200 yards and 8TD that would be 184 points in standard or 259 points in PPR.

184 points in standard is above the 3 year average of WR 12 in standard leagues by 8 points. So he would be a WR1.

259 points in PPR is below the 3 year average of WR 12 in PPR leagues by 3 points. So he would be a WR2 but likely to finish as WR 13-15 or one of the better WR2s.

The situation and supporting cast is not ideal. I think that limits Watkins upside. I do think he can improve on his rookie numbers in 2015 however and should be performing closer to a WR1 in both formats than WR24.

Thanks for the info. Good stuff

 

[Todem]

Watkins by far is my biggest value play at WR this season. I want to grab him while everyone else drafts guys like Andre Johnson, Davante Adams of the like.

WR1 potential in the 5th or 6th round. I think he has insane talent and can explode this season.

 

[TripItUp]

Watkins by far is my biggest value play at WR this season. I want to grab him while everyone else drafts guys like Andre Johnson, Davante Adams of the like.

WR1 potential in the 5th or 6th round. I think he has insane talent and can explode this season.

 

[bulger2holt]

Watkins by far is my biggest value play at WR this season. I want to grab him while everyone else drafts guys like Andre Johnson, Davante Adams of the like.

WR1 potential in the 5th or 6th round. I think he has insane talent and can explode this season.

Totally agree. Real happy to have him as my WR3 behind Dez and Hopkins. I'm hoping he puts up low end WR1 numbers. Curious to see how his numbers compare to Hopkins by seasons end. They are both the main taget in their offense.

 

[Faust]

Bills' Sammy Watkins: I'll be 'ready to go' vs. Colts

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524194/article/bills-sammy-watkins-ill-be-ready-to-go-vs-colts

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Colts DC Greg Manusky said it's "possible" Vontae Davis could shadow Sammy Watkins in Sunday's opener.

Among cornerbacks, only Denver's Chris Harris posted a higher grade than Davis on Pro Football Focus last season. He's one of a shrinking number of shutdown corners and would certainly make things tough on Watkins. Already plagued by a questionable quarterback situation, Watkins is just a flex play in Week 1.

Related: Vontae Davis

Source: Zak Keefer on Twitter

Sep 10 - 1:41 PM

 

[Gottabesweet]

Vonte Davis will shut Sammy down this week and if Andre is on Darby he'll have a field day with veteran tips on the rookie.

 

[donutz]

Watkins by far is my biggest value play at WR this season. I want to grab him while everyone else drafts guys like Andre Johnson, Davante Adams of the like.

WR1 potential in the 5th or 6th round. I think he has insane talent and can explode this season.

I agree with you about the talent but the system is what worries me.

I guess it depends on how cheap you can get him because this guy could easily be unplayable in 12 team flex leagues depending on how the Bills structure their offense. I don't think anyone knows what they are going to do with all new skill position players in Taylor, McCoy and Harvin. Watkins is the only holdover and it's for a historically conservative coach in Ryan. I'd feel better about it if I knew there would be some screens etc that he would run but both McCoy and Harvin are great fits for those plays too

Basically I have no idea what to expect. As a bench guy I'm absolutely in based on talent alone, but as a WR2 or flex that I need to count on....

 

[ponchsox]

Oof.

 

[NREC34]

Oof.

Time for week 1 overreacting.

 

[OU#1]

0 targets?

 

[ponchsox]

Oof.

Time for week 1 overreacting.

Zero targets is hardly overreacting.

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

Man did I screw up benching john brown for him in multiple leagues. Can't believe not a single target. The QB has yards too. Maybe Harvin opens things up...

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

1 target. Taylor not looking his way at all, but he is being covered by Davis arguably the best cover corner in the league.

 

[cstu]

Not a talent issue, must not be as healthy as we were led to believe.

 

[satch]

Fantasy casualty of a winning real football gameplan.

 

[OU#1]

Hey Sammy! Say hello to my bench. Just not enough targets...

 

[georg013]

Extremely troubling. Im as big a supporter as there is and I feel the sky falling in on me.

 

[JohnnyU]

Yeah, they looked just like one another today.

 

[shader]

It's troubling for sure. But part of me thinks they planned to never look at Vontae Davis.

it's probably a bit fluky though, as the Bills never passed in the second half. So maybe it was just a fluky half of football for the Bills.

I'm not happy as a Watkins owner, but it's too early to panic.

 

[jeffismagic]

Taylor didn't bother looking at Watkins as Clay and Harvin were wide open all the time. I think Watkins goes off next week against Patriots. For those who bought Watkins, hold on to him as TT looks really good and see if some chemistry develops. Taylor and Watkins have barely played together.

 

[Shutout]

I don't know why so many people sound shocked at this. Watkins IS Andre Johnson in one aspect- terrific talent with no way to support him early in the career. Inconsistency should be expected. It's not like he plays for the packers or something which is a shame. He could be Randall cobb

 

[georg013]

Not happy with this at all.

 

[smapdi]

Taylor didn't bother looking at Watkins as Clay and Harvin were wide open all the time. I think Watkins goes off next week against Patriots. For those who bought Watkins, hold on to him as TT looks really good and see if some chemistry develops. Taylor and Watkins have barely played together.

Spot on. Don't go jumping off the bridge yet Watkins owners. He was shadowed by V. Davis all game which left room for Harvin and Clay. The Bills one threw the ball 19 times all game.. they just didn't need to today.

On a positive note, all of the concerns about his QB should be alleviated. Taylor hit 70% of his passes for almost 200 yards on just 14 completions. He was hitting his receivers in stride & made a perfect throw on Harvin's 51 yard TD.

The Bills rushed for 147 yards and were up multiple scores the entire game. I think he will have a big bounce back game against NE's secondary next week. They dont have a CB of Davis' caliber to shadow him all game & I doubt the Bills will be up double digits all game

 

[matuski]

Somehow people all along this thread have taken away that I am hating on Sammy. Never the case.. I have repeatedly, repeatedly said he is good or very good.

You keep trying to straddle the line between dismissing him and saying enough mildly positive stuff that you can come back in here and claim you weren't wrong about him.

Nope.. pretty clear on where I stand.

 

[Bob Magaw]

1 target. Taylor not looking his way at all, but he is being covered by Davis arguably the best cover corner in the league.

Sherman, Revis, Haden and Peterson are generally cited as the top CBs. Davis is good, but doubtful the best in the league. Besides, top WRs, if that is what Watkins is, need to beat tough coverage.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

1 target. Taylor not looking his way at all, but he is being covered by Davis arguably the best cover corner in the league.

Sherman, Revis, Haden and Peterson are generally cited as the top CBs. Davis is good, but doubtful the best in the league. Besides, top WRs, if that is what Watkins is, need to beat tough coverage.

The point, I think, is that because he was covered by Davis (who is very good), Taylor never looked at him or gave him a chance to beat his man. You aren't going to blow by a CB like Davis, you need your QB to give you a chance to beat him for the ball. Taylor had no need to take that chance as everyone else was more open.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Somehow people all along this thread have taken away that I am hating on Sammy. Never the case.. I have repeatedly, repeatedly said he is good or very good.

You keep trying to straddle the line between dismissing him and saying enough mildly positive stuff that you can come back in here and claim you weren't wrong about him.

Nope.. pretty clear on where I stand.

Comical that you waited a week to reply.

 

[smapdi]

1 target. Taylor not looking his way at all, but he is being covered by Davis arguably the best cover corner in the league.

Sherman, Revis, Haden and Peterson are generally cited as the top CBs. Davis is good, but doubtful the best in the league. Besides, top WRs, if that is what Watkins is, need to beat tough coverage.

The point, I think, is that because he was covered by Davis (who is very good), Taylor never looked at him or gave him a chance to beat his man. You aren't going to blow by a CB like Davis, you need your QB to give you a chance to beat him for the ball. Taylor had no need to take that chance as everyone else was more open.

This.

It wasn't that Sammy Watkins was shot down by Davis and couldn't beat him... he just wasn't given the chance. He only had 2 targets.

Taylor just wasn't throwing the ball his way the few times they threw the ball. Other guys like Harvin & Clay were open. I'm sure Taylor was told not to force any throws; especially when players like Percy Harvin and Charles Clay were open.

I think Watkins will see a lot more plays next week against NE. Bills only threw it 19 times today & were in control the entire game

 

[Bob Magaw]

1 target. Taylor not looking his way at all, but he is being covered by Davis arguably the best cover corner in the league.

Sherman, Revis, Haden and Peterson are generally cited as the top CBs. Davis is good, but doubtful the best in the league. Besides, top WRs, if that is what Watkins is, need to beat tough coverage.

The point, I think, is that because he was covered by Davis (who is very good), Taylor never looked at him or gave him a chance to beat his man. You aren't going to blow by a CB like Davis, you need your QB to give you a chance to beat him for the ball. Taylor had no need to take that chance as everyone else was more open.

There were a few points.

One, Davis is arguably the best cover CB, doesn't hold up, imo. Davis is good, I noted that. It is hard to read too much into one game, and that uncertainty is further complicated by Taylor's inexperience - the TD to Harvin was the first of his career, and he only had 35 career attempts in the four seasons prior to this. Maybe he will improve at getting the ball to Harvin in time. Maybe Watkins will improve at route running and separation, being just a rookie last year. There will be games where Harvin and Clay aren't wide open, and if Watkins struggles against strong coverage, it could negatively impact his production. Top WRs tend to draw the best coverage, and need to find ways to deal with it. I wasn't suggesting I doubt he can, just that he will probably need to.

 

[jurb26]

Davis is the best cover CB in the league not amazes me that he dipoles the get recognition. I guess because nobody talks about it on ESPN it isn't true. I've been saying it for 2 years now.

Davis is unreal good. The problem is and has been what you saw today. People don't throw at him because the rest of the Indy secondary has been garbage.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

In redraft, Sammy will start getting dropped. In long-term leagues I think it's a good time to buy because there's a lot of fear after today.I imagine him going for late 1st territory this week.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Davis is the best cover CB in the league not amazes me that he dipoles the get recognition. I guess because nobody talks about it on ESPN it isn't true. I've been saying it for 2 years now.

Davis is unreal good. The problem is and has been what you saw today. People don't throw at him because the rest of the Indy secondary has been garbage.

Davis made the Pro Bowl in '14, so it isn't like he receives no recognition (also around #60 in the top 100 poll, not that authoritative and informal, but a sign he has the respect of his peers).How often were Revis, Sherman and Davis thrown at last season? It is kind of an empirical question, we can check the hypothesis that Revis and Sherman receive more recognition because they are inferior in coverage and therefore thrown at a lot and given the chance to make plays, and Davis is so superior he is rarely tested.

One reason Davis tends to not be commonly cited as the top CB in the league may have to do with contracts being viewed as a proxy for talent. For instance:

Revis - 5 yr, $70 million, 39 guaranteed('15)

Sherman - 4 yr, $56 mil, 40 guaranteed ('14)

Peterson- 5 yr, $70 mil, $48 guaranteed ('14)

Haden - 5 yr, $67 mil, 22 guaranteed ('14)

Davis - 4 yr, $39 mil, $20 guaranteed ('14)

Davis is getting half the guaranteed money of Revis and Sherman.

* Rightly or wrongly, Pro Bowls and All-Pro recognition are also generally viewed as another proxy for excellence. If you are seriously looking for reasons why Davis isn't as well known nationally, these could be more substantive reasons than ESPN. Ya think?

Revis has 6 Pro Bowls and 4 All-Pros

Sherman has 2 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pros (not sure how the latter higher than former?)

 

[rickyg]

Own him in redraft and definitely upset but not about to panic after week 1.

Gotta give him time to gel with his new Qb and offense. Week 1 is always a little wacky across the board. Sometimes studs take the first 3-4 weeks to settle in and produce.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Davis is the best cover CB in the league not amazes me that he dipoles the get recognition. I guess because nobody talks about it on ESPN it isn't true. I've been saying it for 2 years now.

Davis is unreal good. The problem is and has been what you saw today. People don't throw at him because the rest of the Indy secondary has been garbage.

Agree with this, Davis is every bit as good as any CB in the game.

Bob, you must not watch a ton of Indy games. Davis locks onto WR's and it is shameful that you don't see him as one of the best CB's in the game. You need to watch the film of how good he was last year. Completely missing the boat on how good he is.

As for Watkins, it was a tough game. He will have a frustrating year for owners as he will have some weeks where he blows up and he may be sitting on benches when that happens.

 

[Gandalf]

It's a downgrade but seriously it's one game. Don't panic

 

[jurb26]

Davis is the best cover CB in the league not amazes me that he dipoles the get recognition. I guess because nobody talks about it on ESPN it isn't true. I've been saying it for 2 years now.

Davis is unreal good. The problem is and has been what you saw today. People don't throw at him because the rest of the Indy secondary has been garbage.

Agree with this, Davis is every bit as good as any CB in the game.Bob, you must not watch a ton of Indy games. Davis locks onto WR's and it is shameful that you don't see him as one of the best CB's in the game. You need to watch the film of how good he was last year. Completely missing the boat on how good he is.

As for Watkins, it was a tough game. He will have a frustrating year for owners as he will have some weeks where he blows up and he may be sitting on benches when that happens.

I'm pretty sure Davis has been isolated in single coverage more than any other CB in the NFL the past 2+ years and despite that hasn't given up a TD pass in that time span. He is criminally underrated.

 

[jurb26]

Davis is the best cover CB in the league not amazes me that he dipoles the get recognition. I guess because nobody talks about it on ESPN it isn't true. I've been saying it for 2 years now.

Davis is unreal good. The problem is and has been what you saw today. People don't throw at him because the rest of the Indy secondary has been garbage.

Davis made the Pro Bowl in '14, so it isn't like he receives no recognition (also around #60 in the top 100 poll, not that authoritative and informal, but a sign he has the respect of his peers).How often were Revis, Sherman and Davis thrown at last season? It is kind of an empirical question, we can check the hypothesis that Revis and Sherman receive more recognition because they are inferior in coverage and therefore thrown at a lot and given the chance to make plays, and Davis is so superior he is rarely tested.

One reason Davis tends to not be commonly cited as the top CB in the league may have to do with contracts being viewed as a proxy for talent. For instance:

Revis - 5 yr, $70 million, 39 guaranteed('15)

Sherman - 4 yr, $56 mil, 40 guaranteed ('14)

Peterson- 5 yr, $70 mil, $48 guaranteed ('14)

Haden - 5 yr, $67 mil, 22 guaranteed ('14)

Davis - 4 yr, $39 mil, $20 guaranteed ('14)

Davis is getting half the guaranteed money of Revis and Sherman.

* Rightly or wrongly, Pro Bowls and All-Pro recognition are also generally viewed as another proxy for excellence. If you are seriously looking for reasons why Davis isn't as well known nationally, these could be more substantive reasons than ESPN. Ya think?

Revis has 6 Pro Bowls and 4 All-Pros

Sherman has 2 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pros (not sure how the latter higher than former?)

The Pro Bowl is a joke. By your measure Peterson is the best CB in the NFL, yet he was clearly the worst of that group last year. Hell, I love Peterson but he was bad last year. Bad for his standards and nothing near the top CB.

Davis doesn't get a lot of picks, which hurts his name value and positional value. Also, he's not playing on a good overall defense, which again hurts his name value. He doesn't posses the ball skills of other top CBs, but that doesn't mean he isn't better at coverage. He blankets guys but doesn't make you pay as often. There is certainly something to be said for that. For sheer coverage, man to man. He's on an island by himself IMO.