Big 4 QBs does not include Lamar IMO
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WR Cooper Kupp, LAR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I had a few minutes to kill waiting to have dinner with my wife so I decided to make a quick stop, grab a few supplies, like I say didn't work out.
I just found myself asking why i didn't just order online, for some reason i thought shopping in person might be fun, not so much.
-The employees looked like prisoners, I felt bad for them.
-The shopping aisles were like Frogger, if someone had a shopping cart they were going to ram it into you, next time I guess should arm myself with a cart at the front of the store but I was just gonna grab a couple things, I didn't see any Swedish Fish.
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eighsse2
Footballguy
Okay that does make more sense. Totally know that feeling.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Cooper is starting to leave me with the same empty feeling I had in Wal-Mart, that was how we were trying to keep it football related but point taken
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The on your knees screaming part sounded a little nsfw
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Sounds about right.
This is a 30 year old WR with two (2) 1000 yard seasons.
Yes, one happened to be the best in NFL history. It was also ages ago.
Remember when trading the farm for Matt Stafford seemed a great idea and Sean McVay still wanted to coach football? It was that long ago.
Ages ago? It was year before last. And halfway through last year, he was WR1 before going down. Still finished the year WR1 in PPG.
What year are you from?
kylechoffman
Footballguy
Just took him ar 2.4 in a 2 keeper league where I kept ASB and hurts in rounds 4 and 7 respectively. He went in round 1 in another 2 keeper draft earlier today.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Paid $30 for him in a Keeper PPR auction, which puts him at pick 22. I was happy with it. I missed out on Davante Adams and then was willing to go to around Adams price point for Kupp. I was and am happy with the discount. Check back on me around week 5 though.
If healthy or return to action, huge upside. It was/is a no-brainer to take him as the 20 (or beyond) player. If you get 2/3 to 3/4 of a season out of him, he will likely still finish inside the WR top 5.
I also bought the dip on JT too. I'll either look like a genius or an idiot.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
I think the Rams actually have a legitimate shot at fantasy football relevance. It was a perfect storm last year with the injuries and guys coming back not at 100%. Take a walk with me down a dream world where Stafford has 1 more year left, Kupp sits for a couple weeks and rehabs his hammy, Akers is who he was 2 years ago. + Higbee and you have a legitimate offense. Stafford is/was a great QB for fantasy in many bad years with Detroit.
If they can win 2 of the first 4 games - which is a pretty brutal start to the season, but 49ers have some health concerns and Seahawks could see regression. They are legitimately in the hunt:
They could win 3 in the division (sweep the Cardinals, take 1 against the Seahawks, sneak one away from the 49ers?) - Colts, Steelers, Packers, Redskins, Giants are all winnable games. That gives them 8 wins. That has them playing for something... if Kupp suits up this year and is playing meaningful football, I just don't see how he isn't worth buying.
If they can win 2 of the first 4 games - which is a pretty brutal start to the season, but 49ers have some health concerns and Seahawks could see regression. They are legitimately in the hunt:
They could win 3 in the division (sweep the Cardinals, take 1 against the Seahawks, sneak one away from the 49ers?) - Colts, Steelers, Packers, Redskins, Giants are all winnable games. That gives them 8 wins. That has them playing for something... if Kupp suits up this year and is playing meaningful football, I just don't see how he isn't worth buying.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Not to be the Debbie downer here, but it's also entirely possible Kupps 2021 season was the aberration. Looking at the rest of his career, he had a good season in 2019, but has otherwise been mediocre. And even in 2019, it was a down year for WRs on the whole. He finished as WR4, but most years his scoring was more aligned with a low end WR1/high end WR2. Both those seasons were also buoyed by high TD totals. He sure seemed prime to finish as a top 3 WR last season for sure, and TDs were high as well, so I won't discount that. I just feel some people talk about Kupp as though he's been a top end WR producing highly for years now, and I don't think that's actually the case. Out of 6 seasons, he had 1.5 as an elite WR option and 1 as top 12 type guy. Even without the injury, it's possible he was being a bit overvalued at his original ADP early-mid 1st.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
except he followed it up the next year - he was on a similar pace after 8 weeks.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I believe I covered that in my post.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
but it shows the season before wasn't an aberration
Check his history again. He was better than mediocre. Then Stafford arrived, and he instantly went wild.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Feels a bit off completely discounting the rest of my post and the points I made, but sure...
The rest of my initial post aside, I think you could also still argue it a potential aberration as his body didn't hold up to that level of play and usage totals. As a 30 year old with a previously torn ACL, he wasn't able to make it through that season healthy, and missed a significant amount of time. And now reinjured himself already this off-season. You could view the injuries as completely irrelevant to his play, but you could also view it as a result of his play and usage. I don't think that's crazy to suggest.
Yea that's not really science based thinking
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Hard disagree, the way people push and use their bodies is frequently equated to injuries they sustain from that usage. How many times was I reading about how a RB like Pollard will never be able to stay healthy under potential increased usage this season?
Ok sorry to upset the Kupp-stans. Hopefully he gets and stays healthy for you guys. More fun when he's performing at a high level than sitting on the sidelines.
fuzzy_dunlop
Footballguy
Thank you for the injection of optimism. It's easy to get doom and gloomy when facing the unknown (injury status). I drafted 5th overall a couple weeks ago in the only league I care about.
yeah saying he was otherwise mediocre couldn't be more off base and kinda discredits your entire post.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
He's a special receiver. Uncoverable when healthy. Once they figured out how to use him in the route trees he's been lights out. Can't stop him in the red zone either. His routes are just too good. Only question is his health and will the Rams be good enough to continue to put him out there later in the year. My fear is they go 4 games under .500 and then sit Kupp, Stafford or Donald as soon as they get a hangnail. Like last year. If he's sitting there at 2.11 or 3.02 I have a choice to make.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Taking a semantical argument based on your definition of mediocre vs mine and ignoring the rest of the post I'd say is worse. But that's just me. The information is out there, you can choose to interpret it as you want. I already made my point and bolded it again since some people don't seem to read an entire post before making their own comment on it.
Wrigley
Footballguy
New here?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I do not roster him anywhere - just corrected something you said that seemed inaccurate - and you took it beyond that. I passed on him at 1.06 in my redraft (and traded him away in a dynasty over the offseason) and glad I did.
not semantical dude, it's a very uninformed take, he was known as one of the best receivers in the league before 2021, someone who's stats were good and limited by his QB at the time (who admittedly has improved since then)
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I don't believe it was inaccurate tbh. But no point in quibbling over it. I don't really care that much, and I know his reputation as a fantasy darling who people get very passionate about, hence my opening statement in my first post. Which I think proved to be true with the other commenters.
Kupp-stan more for the commenter who purported that correlating in game usage and injury potential on top of a previous ACL tear isn't "scientifically based" meanwhile that's all the boards have been talking about for most of these RBs the past few months.
Or the ones who argue Goff was holding him back, but also will come out the other side and use 2019 with Goff to boost him up.
Or state he was thought of as one of the best WRs in the league before what he did in 2021 despite him having a late 3rd/4th round ADP in 2020, 4/5th round ADP 2021. That's not someone who's thought of as one of the best WRs in the league to me, but perhaps people are thinking of where they personally valued him.
Or even acting as though it's logical to be using one of the best WR seasons ever put up in the history of the game as the bar of normalcy for this guy.
*edit I'm obviously in the minority and not pretending I'm not. I was also obviously wrong on my take of him pre-2021, as even putting aside his actual numbers, he played at a much higher level than I thought him ever capable. And I'm completely open to being wrong that that was a ceiling he will never come close to reaching again in the future. Just posting my 2c on a msg board. Especially in a thread where everyone currently seems to be thinking the exact opposite, so felt like a vacuum of any opposing viewpoints.
Mr. Pink
Footballguy
That was my same strategy. Take Andrews at 3.06. Only I did the opposite and took Kupp.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Visiting a specialist on his hamstring which didn't surface much in reports until more recently.
When is the last time you heard a skill position player was visiting a hamstring specialist?
Something seems off
I took the bait in earlier drafts on players like Taylor at RB thinking I was getting a steal in the 3rd, only to see him hit the PUP for 4 weeks
Be careful what you wish for, I would try and steer clear of those already on the injury reports with things that feel like they might linger for a while.
LionOfGosforth
Footballguy
Does IR mean done for the year?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Can mean 4 weeks
Snoopy
Footballguy
yes, since it is after the initial setting of the 53-man roster.
zoonation
Footballguy
I am shocked that people are still drafting this guy in the first four rounds. I think best case is we see him back in week 5, and even then there is huge injury risk going forward. If you told me I could get Kupp back from week 5-17 (wk 10 bye), so 12 weeks, everything would have to go perfectly to justify a round 4 draft pick. You are banking on healthy, elite production in those 12 weeks. If that goes well, he would likely finish the year as a top 15 wideout, but very likely outside the top 10. If everything goes right from that point forward.
Dez
Footballguy
I would like to win 6 figures so it isn't shocking people are drafting a guy who could crush the WR position in the 2nd and 3rd rounds because what matters is weeks 15-17 and getting there.
Weeks 1-14 mean nothing if you make the playoffs and I play for the $250K, $500K and $1 Million prizes I don't play to just win my league.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I have him in a couple places as well, not looking good when the coach says injured reserve
It could be an entire year long thing especially with the outlook for the Rams, even if he was cleared by Week 8, they could be 2-6 at that point.
And that means week 6 since the LAR have a bye week 5.
If I were drafting tonight I'd be drafting Kupp thinking he's out for the first 5 weeks at minimum. If it was sooner...gravy.
nittanylion
Footballguy
In a vacuum, I think Hyatt has more upside as a WR/football player than Nacua.
In a Team context, the Giants are on their way up, while, IMHO at least, the Rams are starting to look like a dumpster fire for 2023. Good luck!
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
If I'm throwing a dart at one this season, it's probably Puka.
I expect at least an IR stint for Kupp. I think things will go downhill quick this year in LA and tanking/keeping Kupp out with "mystery ailment" is possible. Rams have an mid 30s declining QB that appears year-2-year on playing and have their own first round pick next year since I believe the year they drafted Goff (I have not verified this but believe I read). It would make a lot of sense to position themselves for a top QB prospect.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Have been trying to trade any one (or two) players for draft picks to consolidate my roster so I can pick up a defense.
Anyway, in a 12-team, 20-man, QRRWWFKD PPR dynasty league, I received an offer of Cooper Kupp and the guy's first and second round pick (if I had to guess, 7-10 spot), for Jahan Dotson, Deuce Vaughn (drafted at #20), and Roschon Johnson (drafted at #13). The roster spots would allow me to keep Abanikanda and snatch up Jaleel McLaughlin.
I thought it was an interesting offer but I didn't go for it, especially as it would work against my general gameplan of trying to maximize the dynasty value of my roster at all times while maintaining good seasonal value.
Anyway, in a 12-team, 20-man, QRRWWFKD PPR dynasty league, I received an offer of Cooper Kupp and the guy's first and second round pick (if I had to guess, 7-10 spot), for Jahan Dotson, Deuce Vaughn (drafted at #20), and Roschon Johnson (drafted at #13). The roster spots would allow me to keep Abanikanda and snatch up Jaleel McLaughlin.
I thought it was an interesting offer but I didn't go for it, especially as it would work against my general gameplan of trying to maximize the dynasty value of my roster at all times while maintaining good seasonal value.
how is that not an instant accept
eighsse2
Footballguy
It is a RB heavy league (being 2 RB 2 WR 1 Flex), for what that's worth. I guess it's Roschon that's holding me back. I'm really hoping he can hit it big time, he supposedly has "all the tools".
ETA: also I currently have Lamb, AJ Brown, Garrett Wilson, and Godwin. So, granted Kupp has proven to perform at a higher level than any of them, but Kupp wouldn't be as much of a windfall for me versus someone with a typical "replacement level" WR.
ETA again: another thing though ... Does not Kupp seem like the type that -- if the injury ultimately proves to be only a blip on the radar, rather than the beginning of the end -- could produce into his 33 year old season, being an elite route-running possession receiver?
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TapRackBang
Footballguy
I'm staying away from this team entirely (and Arizona). Kupp sounds like he's on the verge of done. Kid can't stay healthy.
