Who is the better QB? Carr. Jimmy G. Or D Jones? update! at their current price tag, who do want on your team? (1 Viewer)

[DA RAIDERS]

Help settle a debate For me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Man, this is tough.

If I answer JimmyG I’m a homer.

I do believe that’s the answer though. The caveat is he can’t stay healthy. He can be a leader, execute PA extremely well, and once in a while throws the oh no what was that?!” Interception.
Assuming good health for all 3, its JimmyG.

Taking injury into consideration it’s probably Daniel Jones for his rushing ability. That said, DJ isn’t asked to do as much in that system.

Carr is a guy who I’ve seen play at an extremely high level, just not consistently enough. He’s also gone through stages of not having enough weapons, then not having a good OL. But he’s also thrown some bad picks in critical situations, and his ability to process and get the ball out is sometimes lackluster. He’s not mobile, and he tends to get dinged up if he goes outside the pocket. IIRC he hurt his groin on a roll-out when he took off running a while back.

I hate to pick Danny 10-Pennies after I just put up a whole bullet pointed list of the things he doesn't do well in the other topic, but overall if injuries are taken into consideration, it’s DJ.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Man, this is tough.

If I answer JimmyG I’m a homer.

I do believe that’s the answer though. The caveat is he can’t stay healthy. He can be a leader, execute PA extremely well, and once in a while throws the oh no what was that?!” Interception.
Assuming good health for all 3, its JimmyG.

Taking injury into consideration it’s probably Daniel Jones for his rushing ability. That said, DJ isn’t asked to do as much in that system.

Carr is a guy who I’ve seen play at an extremely high level, just not consistently enough. He’s also gone through stages of not having enough weapons, then not having a good OL. But he’s also thrown some bad picks in critical situations, and his ability to process and get the ball out is sometimes lackluster. He’s not mobile, and he tends to get dinged up if he goes outside the pocket. IIRC he hurt his groin on a roll-out when he took off running a while back.

I hate to pick Danny 10-Pennies after I just put up a whole bullet pointed list of the things he doesn't do well in the other topic, but overall if injuries are taken into consideration, it’s DJ.

That‘s almost exactly how I see it. I might be slightly higher on Jimmy G

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

That‘s almost exactly how I see it. I might be slightly higher on Jimmy G

Like I said - if we’re just listing who the best QBs of those 3 are. I’m with you.

But the best ability is availability and all that…Jimmy has a knack for injury.

 

[rockaction]

I voted Carr. I'm surprised that Daniel Jones is regarded so highly. He was hidden most of this year. They didn't let him play like a Carr would be let free to do what he needed to do. Same with Jimmy G. Training wheels on all the time in Frisco.

I'd bet Frisco would take Carr over Jimmy G, actually. And certainly over Daniel Jones. Those guys lose games with their turnovers.

 

[Chaka]

Who knows?

Jim Kelly probably would have won five or six consecutive Super Bowls if he was the QB of the Cowboys and not Aikman.

But we'll never know. Just like we will never know what would have happened if Carr or ones was the QB of the Niners over the past five seasons, or Garoppolo was QB of the Raiders or Giants over the same span.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Carr

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I voted Carr. I'm surprised that Daniel Jones is regarded so highly. He was hidden most of this year. They didn't let him play like a Carr would be let free to do what he needed to do. Same with Jimmy G. Training wheels on all the time in Frisco.

I'd bet Frisco would take Carr over Jimmy G, actually. And certainly over Daniel Jones. Those guys lose games with their turnovers.

Ok, who do you think the better qb would be without “training wheels”? One of the rumors swirling around carr, is that mcD had him on a tight leash last season and Carr didn’t like it. I guess that’s training wheels. So, last season, who was the better qb?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Who knows?

Jim Kelly probably would have won five or six consecutive Super Bowls if he was the QB of the Cowboys and not Aikman.

But we'll never know. Just like we will never know what would have happened if Carr or ones was the QB of the Niners over the past five seasons, or Garoppolo was QB of the Raiders or Giants over the same span.

That’s not the question. Dan Marino never won a SB.

looking At their bodies of work, who is the better qb?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Well, Jimmy is the dreamiest, so I guess I'll have to go with...shooting the hostage.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

@Hot Sauce Guy Danny 10 pennies. . Totally stealing this.

 

[menobrown]

I voted Jones but would change my vote if the question was team specific based on the team. For instance which one of these QB's do I think would help the Raiders most next year? If my answer was specific to the Raiders I'd say Jimmy G.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Well, Jimmy is the dreamiest, so I guess I'll have to go with...shooting the hostage.

He is a total dream boat. So you shoot purdy? Seams mean.

 

[rockaction]

If you measure it statistically, and the measure is ANY/A (Average Net Yards per Attempt), then the answer is, both for career and last year, clearly Jimmy G, then David Carr, then Daniel Jones.

I didn't know Jimmy fared so well in ANY/A before I answered. For his career, he's at 7.2, Carr is 6.4, Jones is at 5.62.

There's actually a pretty clear hierarchy in all their stats, the question becomes do you believe the stats? Over that time period, I tend to.

I guess the answer is really Jimmy G, though the durability concerns are great.

But no way is it Daniel Jones, by any measure.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Well, Jimmy is the dreamiest, so I guess I'll have to go with...shooting the hostage.

He is a total dream boat. So you shoot purdy? Seams mean.

Guess he should learn how to get hotter then.

 

[The Frankman]

It's hard... Jimmy G is basically where people hope Daniel Jones can get to... system QB not asked to do a lot but more accurate and he already went deep into the playoffs already so you know what you get with him. He's capable of carrying a team for stretches in a quick-hitting, run-heavy offense.

Derek Carr was once a Top 6 QB in the NFL but ever since the injury has been wildly inconsistent. He's arguably the only QB on this list who can win games by himself if tasked to, but oh boy can he lose them by himself also. I'd love to see him in a new system and see what a new coaching staff can do with him (hi Jets!)

Daniel Jones... yikes. If you've got an elite D/RB Jones might be able to fit in your system (hi 49ers), but boy it can go bad. He's essentially more mobile but schizo Jimmy G; Jimmy G might not win you games on his own, but he's not going to get his teeth kicked in if you ask him to.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

the guy with no playoff wins in 8 seasons is the first I remove. then it's between the guy with super bowl rings and the guy who's younger and already had a phenomenal showing in a playoff win.

 

[Chaka]

Who knows?

Jim Kelly probably would have won five or six consecutive Super Bowls if he was the QB of the Cowboys and not Aikman.

But we'll never know. Just like we will never know what would have happened if Carr or ones was the QB of the Niners over the past five seasons, or Garoppolo was QB of the Raiders or Giants over the same span.

That’s not the question. Dan Marino never won a SB.

looking At their bodies of work, who is the better qb?

I stand by it being totally subjective.

Over what time frame?

2023 it entirely depends on where they land.

We'll find out a little more this year.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I mean, I guess Jimmy has the same amount of rings as the Patriots equipment manager from those years, so he has that goin' for him.

So, is the real question: Pat's equipment manager from '15-'17 or Daniel Jones?

 

[Chaka]

then it's between the guy with super bowl rings

Did you really put this forward as a differentiating factor?

Seriously??

Sorry brother but I see zero path where you have intentions of being serious with this thread if that is your exhibit A.

 

[travdogg]

Jones>Carr>>Jimmy G

These guys are all in the C/C- range for me as QBs, where I wouldn't really be happy with any of them as starting QBs, but they are all certainly top-32 QBs, probably in the 20-25 range.

Jones gets the youth and mobility advantage.

Jimmy G is probably the most accurate, but also seemingly most supporting cast dependent.

Carr is basically the middle ground option.

Super hot take, since these are all FA QBs. I'd take Jacoby Brissett over all of them, especially when factoring in he'll be way cheaper.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Probably Carr, but I get that he has zero playoff wins. However, if he played with defenses like Jimmy has, maybe he'd have four playoff wins while not playing well like Jimmy has had the fortune. They are probably about equal, but Jimmy gets hurt too much, and because durability and availability matter, Carr gets the nod.

I have little to no regard for Daniel Jones, so he is a distant 3rd here for me. He looks like he'd be a total clown show without the right coaching.

 

[IHEARTFF]

the guy with no playoff wins in 8 seasons is the first I remove. then it's between the guy with super bowl rings and the guy who's younger and already had a phenomenal showing in a playoff win.

Nah

 

[Chaka]

I'd take Jacoby Brissett over all of them, especially when factoring in he'll be way cheaper.

Lose more but save money.

Okay, at least it's an ethos.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

then it's between the guy with super bowl rings

 

[travdogg]

I'd take Jacoby Brissett over all of them, especially when factoring in he'll be way cheaper.

Lose more but save money.

Okay, at least it's an ethos.

Not Brissett's fault the Browns have a bad defense. That defense blew 3 games while Brissett was starting. None more so than that embarrassing Jets loss. I think Brissett's play in 2022 really flew under the radar. His play was way better than his final numbers ended up because the Browns were so run heavy inside the 10.

 

[Chaka]

I'd take Jacoby Brissett over all of them, especially when factoring in he'll be way cheaper.

Lose more but save money.

Okay, at least it's an ethos.

Not Brissett's fault the Browns have a bad defense. That defense blew 3 games while Brissett was starting. None more so than that embarrassing Jets loss. I think Brissett's play in 2022 really flew under the radar. His play was way better than his final numbers ended up because the Browns were so run heavy inside the 10.

Take that argument to the Derek Carr thread (or the Raiders thread) and see how far it gets you. The Raiders defense gave up, I believe, five double digit halftime leads.

Brissett had a career year and barely matched Carr's career averages and he didn't come close to Garoppolo's. Brissett is a career backup for a reason and he isn't a viable alternative to the three QBs being discussed in this thread.

You can bring in Carr, Garoppolo or Jones and at least make a plausible argument to the fan base that you are trying to win games. You can make the argument that those guys could take a good team to the playoffs. The Browns had a good team coming into 2022. Great offensive line, top 5 running game, strong defense (5th in yards in 2021, 13th in points) etc. and we saw what happened.

You sign Brissett as a complete stop-gap while you try to find your starting QB of the future and the fans know it.

 

[-OZ-]

They’re all probably in the “can start and might win with the right circumstances” group. I’ll take Carr and he’ll probably get the best (overall) contract of the group.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Not Brissett's fault the Browns have a bad defense

But it is his fault he’s below average. I mean he’s a journeyman for a reason.

 

[travdogg]

I'd take Jacoby Brissett over all of them, especially when factoring in he'll be way cheaper.

Lose more but save money.

Okay, at least it's an ethos.

Not Brissett's fault the Browns have a bad defense. That defense blew 3 games while Brissett was starting. None more so than that embarrassing Jets loss. I think Brissett's play in 2022 really flew under the radar. His play was way better than his final numbers ended up because the Browns were so run heavy inside the 10.

Take that argument to the Derek Carr thread (or the Raiders thread) and see how far it gets you. The Raiders defense gave up, I believe, five double digit halftime leads.

Brissett had a career year and barely matched Carr's career averages and he didn't come close to Garoppolo's. Brissett is a career backup for a reason and he isn't a viable alternative to the three QBs being discussed in this thread.

You can bring in Carr, Garoppolo or Jones and at least make a plausible argument to the fan base that you are trying to win games. You can make the argument that those guys could take a good team to the playoffs. The Browns had a good team coming into 2022. Great offensive line, top 5 running game, strong defense (5th in yards in 2021, 13th in points) etc. and we saw what happened.

You sign Brissett as a complete stop-gap while you try to find your starting QB of the future and the fans know it.

The Raiders actually were a better defense than the Browns in 2022. Browns were better in coverage, but the Raiders were better everywhere else, including by a wide margin against the run.

Career averages are mostly irrelevant in my opinion, especially with someone like Garoppolo who had a loaded supporting cast and an elite playcaller.

I think bolded is true of all these QBs. They are all stop gaps in my eyes. Personally. I'd go with the one who is the cheapest one by far. I'd probably take 5 QBs in this draft class over any of them.

Not Brissett's fault the Browns have a bad defense

But it is his fault he’s below average. I mean he’s a journeyman for a reason.

Don't think he's below average. I think he's average. I'd also call Jimmy G a journeyman, even if he's been on fewer teams, he's been a backup on every team he's played for.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Don't think he's below average. I think he's average. I'd also call Jimmy G a journeyman, even if he's been on fewer teams, he's been a backup on every team he's played for.

We’ll agree to disagree on Brissett - any team heading into the season with him as a starting QB would need to be stacked everywhere else to have a chance at the playoffs.

I don’t mind that classification for Jimmy G - he’s a stop-gap starter imo - makes way too many dumb turnovers to be a long term starter.

I say this as some one who’s favorite team may employ either one of these guys next season and while either would be an upgrade neither are very inspiring.

 

[ffmail4me]

Carr, Jones, Jimmy G

But if I had to kiss one of them, it would be Tom Brady.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't see how this is close. Carr is inconsistent but he's put up several really great seasons. The other two guys have 0 of those combined.

I think playoff wins is a silly barometer in any conversation, but ESPECIALLY silly when we're not talking about Brady/Peyton/Rodgers level guys that are expected to make a team a Super Bowl contender all on their own. None of these middle tier guys have a large enough effect on a team of 50 guys to start counting playoff wins.

There's a reason Matt Stafford had 0 playoff wins until he suddenly won a Super Bowl. And that's even counting someone a tier above these guys. Yet there are people out there that two years ago would've said they'd rather have Joe Flacco or Nick Foles over Matt Stafford.

Crazy.

 

[travdogg]

Don't think he's below average. I think he's average. I'd also call Jimmy G a journeyman, even if he's been on fewer teams, he's been a backup on every team he's played for.

We’ll agree to disagree on Brissett - any team heading into the season with him as a starting QB would need to be stacked everywhere else to have a chance at the playoffs.

I don’t mind that classification for Jimmy G - he’s a stop-gap starter imo - makes way too many dumb turnovers to be a long term starter.

I say this as some one who’s favorite team may employ either one of these guys next season and while either would be an upgrade neither are very inspiring.

I can agree with the bolded. I just think it applies to all of them. Daniel Jones and the Giants very extremely lucky outliers this year, which is why Daboll was coach of the year.

If I'm looking for a QB this year, its:
Tier 1-Franchise changer
Rodgers
Tier 2-Potential
Rookies
Tier 3-Stopgap/bridge
Brissett
Jones
Carr
Geno (I'm assuming he's staying in Seattle)
Ryan
Dalton
Jimmy G
Tier 4-competent backup for contenders
Trubisky
Mariota
Wentz
Mayfield
Heinicke

If I were a team like the Jets, I'd be putting the full court press on Rodgers.

Also, I think Hooker is a wild card. I think he's clearly behind the other rookie QBs, and due to his health status he's probably tier 5 this year, with tier 2/3 potential down the road.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I can agree with the bolded. I just think it applies to all of them.

Carr was just in the playoffs in 2021 and Jones in 2022 (whether lucky or not) - when was the last time Brissett was in the playoffs while not being a backup?

 

[travdogg]

I don't see how this is close. Carr is inconsistent but he's put up several really great seasons. The other two guys have 0 of those combined.

I think playoff wins is a silly barometer in any conversation, but ESPECIALLY silly when we're not talking about Brady/Peyton/Rodgers level guys that are expected to make a team a Super Bowl contender all on their own. None of these middle tier guys have a large enough effect on a team of 50 guys to start counting playoff wins.

There's a reason Matt Stafford had 0 playoff wins until he suddenly won a Super Bowl. And that's even counting someone a tier above these guys. Yet there are people out there that two years ago would've said they'd rather have Joe Flacco or Nick Foles over Matt Stafford.

Crazy.

Those people were crazy. Stafford was a franchise QB, albeit a lower end one. Foles and especially Flacco were backup caliber guys. If 2021 Stafford were available, I'd have him probably close to Rodgers. Of course 2023 Stafford, might be closer to Jones/Carr, but that is more due to head/neck issues.

I can agree with the bolded. I just think it applies to all of them.

Carr was just in the playoffs in 2021 and Jones in 2022 (whether lucky or not) - when was the last time Brissett was in the playoffs while not being a backup?

I guess I meant more being contenders in the playoffs. The Giants and Raiders weren't threats at all. The 49ers were, but that had very little to do with Jimmy G.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I guess I meant more being contenders in the playoffs.

I don’t think Carr or Jones could carry a team - but they, like Jimmy G, could be good enough if surrounded by talented teams.
Jones did actually win a playoff game - even if you want to call the Giants season as “lucky”, which I wouldn’t totally disagree with.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I went with Danny Dimes because he's got the coolest nickname.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Bump for more input

 

[NYRAGE]

Bump for more input

Carr has 67% of the votes. The other two combine for 33%. It seems like you got your answer unless it's not the answer you wanted.

 

[menobrown]

The NFL is about to tell you what they think and it's going to be Jones, Carr and Jimmy G in that order. Lock it down.

ETA-If I'm wrong will be the last two switching spots,which now that I gave it a very quick second though the odds are Jimmy signs after Carr so beating him might be a goal. But Jones is going to be the highest paid of this group.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

We’ll agree to disagree on Brissett - any team heading into the season with him as a starting QB would need to be stacked everywhere else to have a chance at the playoffs.

Any team headed into the season with Brisset as a starting QB is tanking for a top 3 pick.

Exactly what the NY Giants should do with Tyrod Taylor; but that’s a subject for another topic.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The NFL is about to tell you what they think and it's going to be Jones, Carr and Jimmy G in that order. Lock it down.

ETA-If I'm wrong will be the last two switching spots,which now that I gave it a very quick second though the odds are Jimmy signs after Carr so beating him might be a goal. But Jones is going to be the highest paid of this group.

The 1st bolded is sort of cheating through if we assume Daniel Jones has an inside route to a job with the Giants, compared to 2 UFAs going out to hustle their wares to whomever wants them.

The 2nd bolded is telegraphed/apparent based on Jones firing his agent and saying he wants $45M, while Carr came out & said he wants $35M

So yeah, don’t disagree - just not sure either of those really tells us anything if they come to fruition.

 

[menobrown]

The NFL is about to tell you what they think and it's going to be Jones, Carr and Jimmy G in that order. Lock it down.

ETA-If I'm wrong will be the last two switching spots,which now that I gave it a very quick second though the odds are Jimmy signs after Carr so beating him might be a goal. But Jones is going to be the highest paid of this group.

The 1st bolded is sort of cheating through if we assume Daniel Jones has an inside route to a job with the Giants, compared to 2 UFAs going out to hustle their wares to whomever wants them.

The 2nd bolded is telegraphed/apparent based on Jones firing his agent and saying he wants $45M, while Carr came out & said he wants $35M

So yeah, don’t disagree - just not sure either of those really tells us anything if they come to fruition.

100% disagreement, not sure how you can even say that.

Jones has the least leverage of any of them because the other two are essentially UFA's. And he's still going to get the most money. That's pretty telling to me. Whether they are wrong or not is another story, but he's the one most in demand, you'll all see.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The NFL is about to tell you what they think and it's going to be Jones, Carr and Jimmy G in that order. Lock it down.

ETA-If I'm wrong will be the last two switching spots,which now that I gave it a very quick second though the odds are Jimmy signs after Carr so beating him might be a goal. But Jones is going to be the highest paid of this group.

The 1st bolded is sort of cheating through if we assume Daniel Jones has an inside route to a job with the Giants, compared to 2 UFAs going out to hustle their wares to whomever wants them.

The 2nd bolded is telegraphed/apparent based on Jones firing his agent and saying he wants $45M, while Carr came out & said he wants $35M

So yeah, don’t disagree - just not sure either of those really tells us anything if they come to fruition.

100% disagreement, not sure how you can even say that.

Jones has the least leverage of any of them because the other two are essentially UFA's. And he's still going to get the most money. That's pretty telling to me. Whether they are wrong or not is another story, but he's the one most in demand, you'll all see.

If he gets the $45M he’s asking, you’re probably correct.

But he does seem to have the most clear path to a job since he was just a starter for the Giants and to this point hasn’t been negotiating with anyone else.

If I’m wrong that’s ok. I’m used to it. this topic is all speculative / opinion anyway. We can all be right until something concrete happens.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Bump for more input

Carr has 67% of the votes. The other two combine for 33%. It seems like you got your answer unless it's not the answer you wanted.

I have no dog in the fight. I wanted to see what the perception was outside the raider bubble. Having spent 9 years with Carr as the qb of the raiders I’m ready for change. It might suck, but Carr is not the answer. All 3 will be expensive, limiting what the raiders can do on a team that has a million holes to fill. I am fine with stidham for now. Wouldn’t mind seeing hooker as a project.

 

[menobrown]

If he gets the $45M he’s asking, you’re probably correct.

But he does seem to have the most clear path to a job since he was just a starter for the Giants and to this point hasn’t been negotiating with anyone else.

He has the most clear path because Carr got cut and SF has been trying to replace Jimmy G for a few years. But I'm sure we can agree a UFA has more leverage then a player who can be tagged.

The story I'm seeing reported is not Jones wants $45M from the Giants, it's that he wants $45M. This number is not being pulled from thin air. Neither Jones or his agents have of course entered into official talks with anyone but it would be naive to think they've not gathered info from discussions to come to this target. What I'm saying is Jones may not re-sign with the Giants and he'll still beat what the other two will get if he reaches the open market.

Of course, I guess we may never know if he gets tagged.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The NFL is about to tell you what they think and it's going to be Jones, Carr and Jimmy G in that order. Lock it down.

ETA-If I'm wrong will be the last two switching spots,which now that I gave it a very quick second though the odds are Jimmy signs after Carr so beating him might be a goal. But Jones is going to be the highest paid of this group.

Agreed. Simply based on youth and injury history.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Jones has the least leverage of any of them because the other two are essentially UFA's.

the Giants do have the benefit of the tag available to them but then they risk losing Barkley. Your statement is still true, but the Giants are likely a motivated buyer.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If he gets the $45M he’s asking, you’re probably correct.

But he does seem to have the most clear path to a job since he was just a starter for the Giants and to this point hasn’t been negotiating with anyone else.

He has the most clear path because Carr got cut and SF has been trying to replace Jimmy G for a few years. But I'm sure we can agree a UFA has more leverage then a player who can be tagged.

The story I'm seeing reported is not Jones wants $45M from the Giants, it's that he wants $45M. This number is not being pulled from thin air. Neither Jones or his agents have of course entered into official talks with anyone but it would be naive to think they've not gathered info from discussions to come to this target. What I'm saying is Jones may not re-sign with the Giants and he'll still beat what the other two will get if he reaches the open market.

Of course, I guess we may never know if he gets tagged.

Good point - and yeah, I sorta forgot he’s a RFA.

And yeah - I am skeptical anyone gives DJ $45M, but I concede it’s non-zero chance. I am on record saying it’s a huge mistake, but I’m not an NFL GM, so…