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Washed Up RB2's - Any comebacks? (1 Viewer)

Stoneworker

Footballguy
This year's redraft is loaded with proven RB vets that are clear starters, but also have major warts. Each is more than capable of RB1 territory if only...

Please discuss and/or rank in order of your confidence level of regaining their former magic (ADP shown is from Fantasy Pros).

RB15 C. Carson (hip fracture, fumbling)

RB16 T. Gurley (arthritic knee)

RB17 L. Fournette (Jags have zero confidence in him)

RB18 J. Conner (concussions, etc)

RB20 L. Bell (Jets offense, horrendous ypc last year)

RB21 Da. Johnson (injuries, recent performance)

RB23 M. Ingram (age 30+, Robbins waiting in wings) 

 
Carson
Conner

Fournette
Gurley
Ingram

Bell
Johnson

Carson and Conner are the bell cows for their teams unless injury strikes. Their coaches have said so. So I go with that. I'm more worried about Conner's shoulder than I am his concussions. I thought his shoulder caused him to duck hits last year at times (before he missed time, he was obviously hurt and not able to withstand the punishment. I don't think that goes away with a switch of the light.)

Fournette, Gurley, and Ingram all have committee issues for differing reasons. You point out the two big issues with Fournette and Gurley and Dobbins hangs like the sword of Damocles over Ingram.

Bell and Johnson seem to be shells of their former selves, and each has another back eating into their touches (Gore and Duke Johnson, respectively).

 
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Carson
Conner

Fournette
Gurley
Ingram

Bell
Johnson

Carson and Conner are the bell cows for their teams unless injury strikes. Their coaches have said so. So I go with that. I'm more worried about Conner's shoulder than I am his concussions. I thought his shoulder caused him to duck hits last year at times (before he missed time, he was obviously hurt and not able to withstand the punishment. I don't think that goes away with a switch of the light.)

Fournette, Gurley, and Ingram all have committee issues for differing reasons. You point out the two big issues with Fournette and Gurley and Dobbins hangs like the sword of Damocles over Ingram.

Bell and Johnson seem to be shells of their former selves, and each has another back eating into their touches (Gore and Duke Johnson, respectively).
Interesting. Great comments. So you think Fournette and Gurley have committee concerns?

I can see serious regression in Fournette's recpts due to C. Thompson, but didn't think anyone was an RBBC threat.

Koetter just came out today and said he expects 15-25 touches/game for Gurley (assuming knee holds up).

 
Interesting. Great comments. So you think Fournette and Gurley have committee concerns?

I can see serious regression in Fournette's recpts due to C. Thompson, but didn't think anyone was an RBBC threat.

Koetter just came out today and said he expects 15-25 touches/game for Gurley (assuming knee holds up).
Ah, I was going off of Koetter's previous comments in ATL. He seemed resigned to about max 15 touches per game for Gurley. 25 is a heck of a lot for anybody. 

I was thinking indeed of C. Thompson and even integrating R. Armstead or J. Robinson into the mix in JAX. Depends on what Morrone is coaching for, really. If he's coaching for his job, Fournette is the best back. If Sal Khan is in his ear about the future, we may be seeing the other two. That really depends, but even the thought of it gives me concern for Fournette I didn't have last year (last year the concern would have been Fournette's style and body integrity).

 
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Ah, I was going off of Koetter's previous comments in ATL. He seemed resigned to about max 15 touches per game for Gurley. 25 is a heck of a lot for anybody. 

I was thinking indeed of C. Thompson and even integrating R. Armstead or J. Robinson into the mix in JAX. Depends on what Morrone is coaching for, really. If he's coaching for his job, Fournette is the best back. If Sal Khan is in his ear about the future, we may be seeing the other two. That really depends, but even the thought of it gives me concern for Fournette I didn't have last year (last year the concern would have been Fournette's style and body integrity).
Agreed. 25 touches for Gurley is indeed extreme and to be taken with a grain of salt as coachspeak, but my interpretation was simply that no issues had arisen yet (vs. last year when McVay explicitly had him on a pitch count).

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29739292/falcons-oc-envisions-15-25-touches-per-game-todd-gurley

My current personal take on Fournette is that as long as he was producing then mgmt might just run him into the ground before cutting him loose. Obviously part of the uncertainty.

 
My current personal take on Fournette is that as long as he was producing then mgmt might just run him into the ground before cutting him loose. Obviously part of the uncertainty.
Sure. That's certainly a legitimate way to look at it and I can't really argue too much with it. And Thompson is hurt daily, so there's that element of the passing game that may not come to fruition. But if he is healthy, Gruden loves him and will get him 5-8 touches per game.

 
This year's redraft is loaded with proven RB vets that are clear starters, but also have major warts. Each is more than capable of RB1 territory if only...

Please discuss and/or rank in order of your confidence level of regaining their former magic (ADP shown is from Fantasy Pros).

RB15 C. Carson (hip fracture, fumbling)

RB16 T. Gurley (arthritic knee)

RB17 L. Fournette (Jags have zero confidence in him)

RB18 J. Conner (concussions, etc)

RB20 L. Bell (Jets offense, horrendous ypc last year)

RB21 Da. Johnson (injuries, recent performance)

RB23 M. Ingram (age 30+, Robbins waiting in wings) 
I have never been a huge Carson fan. He will probably be fine, but I can see him as a bust.

Gurley will probably never be healthy again 

Fournlette is probably about right with that ranking 

Conner is top 5 if he and Ben are healthy. 

Bell is in terrible situation. No reason to expect that to change until they fire Gase

Johnson will get a huge workload. BOB needs to justify his terrible trade.

Ingram loses his job by week 8.

 
Is Melvin Gordon considered not part of this group? I'd take a few of these guys over him.

1. Carson is a low end RB1 in my opinion. I don't think any of the current competition is as big of a worry as a healthy Penny was. I'm expecting pretty much a repeat of 2019.

2. Johnson was RB6 before getting hurt last year, and is going to a potentially more powerful offense. He's still a massive mismatch in the passing game(with a lot of vacated targets) and while not a great runner, is at least as good as Hyde/Miller, who have both topped 1,000 yards for BOB. I think he's a high-end RB2.

3. Ingram just has too much TD upside to be lower for me. The Ravens likely aren't going to be suddenly figured out by defenses, and I don't think Dobbins is a huge threat yet. He hasn't even passed Gus Edwards yet. I view Ingram as a decent RB2.

4. Bell looked just fine to me last year, he just got zero help. I'm not sure much has changed there, but the volume is going to be high enough to make him a useful starter still. 4 TD's was pretty fluky too, that could easily get up to 7-8 without Bell really playing any better. I think he's a low-end RB2.

5. Conner scares the hell out of me. I just think he's a guy who is a bit fragile. While I don't think the Steelers offense will be as poor as it was last year, its arguably closer to that than to 2018. I'm kind of down on the Steelers offense in general. The only guy I really like might be Washington, and even then its mostly because he's free. I view Conner on the RB2/Flex borderline.

6. Fournette, I've never liked him going back to evaluating him as a draft prospect. I can see the argument that he's in a contract year, so they may just run him into the ground and then let him walk(although that kinda applies to all these guys) but Fournette just strikes me as a guy who is a lock to come down from last year. His catches could easily come down by over half, and I could see them trying to work in other guys, just to see if they've got something. He's a flex RB to me.

7. Gurley, I think he's washed. Its possible he works his way into RB2 value like Freeman did a year ago, based on catches and TD's, but its just so easy to see the wheels coming off, that he is basically on my do not draft list. If he's the best RB left when I pick, I'm taking a different position. I think if he's higher than RB3 on your team, I'd be terrified.

Carson and Johnson are likely the only ones I could see myself drafting. Everyone else has a younger, or more role unproven, RB I prefer to them. I really love Johnson at that ADP. He's the only one of these guys I'm actively targeting. 

 
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Is Melvin Gordon considered not part of this group? I'd take a few of these guys over him.

2. Johnson was RB6 before getting hurt last year, and is going to a potentially more powerful offense. He's still a massive mismatch in the passing game(with a lot of vacated targets) and while not a great runner, is at least as good as Hyde/Miller, who have both topped 1,000 yards for BOB. I think he's a high-end RB2.
The bolded is a a good point, but I wouldn't take Johnson over almost anybody. I think at his ADP there are young backs looking to take over for guys. He's who I think is totally washed. Last year it looked like a piano broke his back. He's missed so much time in his career he's the only guy in the Houston backfield that can say he made the club from the tub, really.

 
Is Melvin Gordon considered not part of this group? I'd take a few of these guys over him.

1. Carson is a low end RB1 in my opinion. I don't think any of the current competition is as big of a worry as a healthy Penny was. I'm expecting pretty much a repeat of 2019.
Very thoughtful comments. Just a couple of quick responses on these in particular.

a) I didn't include Gordon since his ranking doesn't appear to reflecting having "warts." Just an RBBC with Lindsay is my interpretation.

b) You're not concerned about Carson with the hip? I thought Seahawks adding Hyde was due to this concern. Makes me a little nervous them adding someone that just put up 1K rushing yards last year.

 
The bolded is a a good point, but I wouldn't take Johnson over almost anybody. I think at his ADP there are young backs looking to take over for guys. He's who I think is totally washed. Last year it looked like a piano broke his back. He's missed so much time in his career he's the only guy in the Houston backfield that can say he made the club from the tub, really.
See above regarding Gordon. However, not looking to control conversation. Gordon is the missing RB19 in my list.

 
Just an RBBC with Lindsay is my interpretation.
All reports are in the negative about this, though I think you're on to something. Lindsay is going to carve himself out a role in that offense unless Fangio and Elway wind up stuck in their ways. Which they could be after paying Gordon $16M over two years.

 
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The bolded is a a good point, but I wouldn't take Johnson over almost anybody. I think at his ADP there are young backs looking to take over for guys. He's who I think is totally washed. Last year it looked like a piano broke his back. He's missed so much time in his career he's the only guy in the Houston backfield that can say he made the club from the tub, really.
I thought Johnson looked like his old self(who admittedly was never as good as his numbers suggested) the first month or so of the season, he was on a 1,600-14 pace through 6 games. But I do agree, he looked like a guy who was looking for a place to lay down after he got hurt. I guess I'm more willing to assume he's more likely to rebound as his injury isn't a chronic one(like Gurley) and because he brings such a unique skillset in the passing game. Add in the fact that O'Brien might force the issue, and that Johnson is often draftable as an RB3, and he's a target of mine.

Very thoughtful comments. Just a couple of quick responses on these in particular.

a) I didn't include Gordon since his ranking doesn't appear to reflecting having "warts." Just an RBBC with Lindsay is my interpretation.

b) You're not concerned about Carson with the hip? I thought Seahawks adding Hyde was due to this concern. Makes me a little nervous them adding someone that just put up 1K rushing yards last year.
I do think Gordon could be in another 55-45 RBBC with Lindsay. I like Lindsay a lot more being that he's available like 6 rounds later.

I'm not concerned about the hip. I think the Hyde addition had nothing to do with Carson, and everything to do with Penny. Hyde isn't a very good RB though. He's on his 6th team in 4 years. If anything, Hyde's success in Houston just makes me like David Johnson more.

 
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All reports are in the negative about this, though I think you're on to something. Lindsay is going to carve himself out a role in that offense unless Fangio and Elway wind up stuck in their ways. Which they could be after paying Gordon $16M over two years.
Not local reports here in Denver. And beyond that, Freeman is in great shape.

Coach Vic Fangio said deciding between Gordon and Lindsay as the starter, “will play out. I anticipate them both playing enough to where we really don’t have to designate a starter.”

https://www.4for4.com/news/broncos-anticipate-rbs-melvin-gordon-phillip-lindsay-both-playing-enough

 
RB15 C. Carson (hip fracture, fumbling) - from what I've read the hip is fine, and the fumbling was always overblown. Hyde always gets too much love in the preseason & usually sucks. I've seen enough Hyde to not be a Hyde believer. The Hyde truthers will tell you he's gonna steal the show in Seattle. I will take Carson in the late 2nd/early 3d 100 times  out of 100. 

RB16 T. Gurley (arthritic knee) - If he gets 15-25 touches a game, he will have a top 10 borderline RB1 year in Atlanta. IMO the only concern is health. His knee is spotty. We don't know how spotty. I'm an avoid in the 2nd at ADP, a buy in the 3rd where he becomes more worth the risk. 

RB17 L. Fournette (Jags have zero confidence in him) - wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole. I wouldn't draft him for an enemy's team. His own team hates him, why should I love him? 

RB18 J. Conner (concussions, etc) - mixed. I believe he will be a sold RB2. I do not believe he has RB1 upside as many do. He has opportunity & the  trust of his coaches. I would draft him in the 3rd and hope he stays healthy. He's not a bargain at ADP, but he's likely a relatively safe pick. 

RB20 L. Bell (Jets offense, horrendous ypc last year) - They refuse to commit to him, so I won't either. I think he has the talent & the Jets have no idea how to use it. He will likely be a RB3 who borders on RB2 week to week, but I don't see him getting 20+ touches and returning to dominance. 

RB21 Da. Johnson (injuries, recent performance) - Man. This one is the hardest. Of all the dudes on this list, he has the best chance of being a top 10 RB, but will more than likely be a top 20, RB2 type. If he's 100% he's a near lock for 250 carries. He'll get some receptions. He'll lose some touches to DuJo, but not as many as DuJo owners would like. lol  I like DaJo in the 3rd. I like him better in the 4th. 

RB23 M. Ingram (age 30+, Robbins waiting in wings) - don't see how he belongs on this list. He had a fine year. He should see another ~200 touches & ~8 TDs. The roles of the rest of the RBs aren't as significant as the running back the Ravens have behind center. But Ingram should be solid but unspectacular. 

 
Not local reports here in Denver. And beyond that, Freeman is in great shape.

Coach Vic Fangio said deciding between Gordon and Lindsay as the starter, “will play out. I anticipate them both playing enough to where we really don’t have to designate a starter.”

https://www.4for4.com/news/broncos-anticipate-rbs-melvin-gordon-phillip-lindsay-both-playing-enough
Well then, that's twice today I've been surprised by camp news. I try and keep up, but there's only so much one can do. The other was Malik Harrison being a potential three-down WLB for the Ravens, which is a boon to my IDP team. 

 
Well then, that's twice today I've been surprised by camp news. I try and keep up, but there's only so much one can do. The other was Malik Harrison being a potential three-down WLB for the Ravens, which is a boon to my IDP team. 
And a name I just circled on my draft sheet. ;)  

 
These guys should go when I'm looking at wr's, but if I end up in a spot to pick one then it'll be Carson or Conner. I don't have interest in any of the others. 

 
And a name I just circled on my draft sheet. ;)  
;) You know this already, but if that's seasonal, I get the impression that should be very, very late. He's a rookie and Patrick Queen is their three-down rookie MLB right now. Harrison is deep leagues at best. I don't even think he cracks top fifty. Who knows? Maybe a gem in dynasty. Fingers crossed here. You can thank MAC_32 for bringing the news.

 
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I guess I'm more willing to assume he's more likely to rebound as his injury isn't a chronic one
I'd like to see that as a football fan, but man did that ever look bad. Then again, non-chronic injuries can indeed look that bad if acute enough. 

 
;) You know this already, but if that's seasonal, I get the impression that should be very, very late. He's a rookie and Patrick Queen is their three-down rookie MLB right now. Harrison is deep leagues at best. I don't even think he cracks top fifty. Who knows? Maybe a gem in dynasty. Fingers crossed here. You can thank MAC_32 for bringing the news.
He's a dude I'll mark as "watch list" or take as a 26th round lottery ticket. 2018 I took Leonard with my 27th round pick & that worked out pretty well, so..

 
These guys should go when I'm looking at wr's, but if I end up in a spot to pick one then it'll be Carson or Conner. I don't have interest in any of the others. 
I'm not even sure Carson belongs on the list. He was as reliable as they came last year until he got hurt. 

 
I'm not even sure Carson belongs on the list. He was as reliable as they came last year until he got hurt. 
Given his running style and the injury suffered I get why he is lumped in with these guys. I'm comfortable with the risk, but it's still there. 

 
.

I'm not concerned about the hip. I think the Hyde addition had nothing to do with Carson, and everything to do with Penny. Hyde isn't a very good RB though. He's on his 6th team in 4 years. If anything, Hyde's success in Houston just makes me like David Johnson more.
I agree completely that Hyde signing was about Penny, but I also think Hyde gets more crap here than he's earned. He's not a great back, but he's a good enough runner that he'll be on the field plenty. Not rbbc but closer to it than the ADP indicates. 

I'm taking David Johnson from this group, but that's probably because I have him in too many leagues.

 
I agree completely that Hyde signing was about Penny, but I also think Hyde gets more crap here than he's earned. He's not a great back, but he's a good enough runner that he'll be on the field plenty. Not rbbc but closer to it than the ADP indicates. 

I'm taking David Johnson from this group, but that's probably because I have him in too many leagues.
I dont agree about Hyde - he's an if you need 2 yards he'll get you 3 if you need 5 he'll get you 3 type. In case of emergency, break open glass. I bet Seattle just hopes if Carson's health is an issue it doesn't surface until after Penny is ready. 

 
Given his running style and the injury suffered I get why he is lumped in with these guys. I'm comfortable with the risk, but it's still there. 
I just looked back. Carson was the RB4 until he fractured his hip. Even missing much of 15 & all of 16, he finished as a top 12 back. 

Part of the problem is he was unheralded. The Penny truthers constantly rooted for him to fail. When he had a couple fumbles, it was "he's a fumbler! Penny's taking over!" didn't happen. Coach came out and said he's never been a fumbler. He locked it down. Then Penny had that huge game & everyone was all-in on Penny. Finally! That was short-lived. Now it's Hyde.  For whatever reason, few want to admit that Carson is a very solid back. He makes good reads, decisive cuts and is a hard-nosed player. I don't consider him injury-prone, though hip sockets can be tricky. 

I'd consider him as early as late 2nd round. It's not much behind his ADP, but considering the board ahead of him is Drake & DaJo & a bunch of WRs / elite TEs, he's a pretty solid bet for RB2 production if the WRs i want are all gone, or if there are 5 WRs I have ranked relatively evenly. 

 
I just looked back. Carson was the RB4 until he fractured his hip. Even missing much of 15 & all of 16, he finished as a top 12 back. 
Some people questioning why Carson is on the list. You hit on the general theme. All guys on the list have proven ability for an RB1 finish...but for various reasons trading at arguably big discounts.

 
Some people questioning why Carson is on the list. You hit on the general theme. All guys on the list have proven ability for an RB1 finish...but for various reasons trading at arguably big discounts.
He was RB4, as in, top 5, and I meant an "RB1" in name, not like the #1 running back. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same things. 

I don't see any way Ingram could possibly be in the running for anything better than RB15-ish, and that's with a bunch of TDs based on a ~200 carry workload. 

If the question is "which of these RBs could finish RB1 overall" my answer is probably "none of them". If it's "which are viable and likely RB2-caliber backs (as in, a team's 2nd RB, in the 13-24th range) then most of them can be. 

Who will be? Tough call. A lot depends on health. But these two backs in particular should both have the same role & relatively same output they had last year. I don't see much that would change that in their respective scenarios. 

 
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He was RB4, as in, top 5, and I meant an "RB1" in name, not like the #1 running back. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same things. 

I don't see any way Ingram could possibly be in the running for anything better than RB15-ish, and that's with a bunch of TDs based on a ~200 carry workload. 

If the question is "which of these RBs could finish RB1 overall" my answer is probably "none of them". If it's "which are viable and likely RB2-caliber backs (as in, a team's 2nd RB, in the 13-24th range) then most of them can be. 

Who will be? Tough call. A lot depends on health. But these two backs in particular should both have the same role & relatively same output they had last year. I don't see much that would change that in their respective scenarios. 
Yes. RB1 as in "Top 10-12 finish," not "the #1 overall" running back.

Ingram was #8 last year in 0.5 PPR which is why I've included him. At a current ADP of RB23 he is getting dinged vis-a-vis where is obviously capable of finishing.

All these guys are currently trading as mid-low end RB2's. Yet all are clear starters and have also demonstrated ability to finish in Top 10. Figuring out which ones are being unfairly discounted (if any) is the goal.

 
If Carson's ready to go, he's my clear #1 on this list. 

Gurley can't move laterally anymore. AT ALL. Just walking looks painful for him. Can be meh north-south guy I suppose that nabs a bunch of TD's. JMO He's a late career Steven Jackson situation in Atlanta. If he doesn't show more than he did last year (and I don't believe that'll ever be a possibility with his arthritis), I very strongly believe this is his final year in the league and he'll go into acting. STUNNED ATL has as much confidence as they've shown with him as the guy. Name > game. But could fall into same situation as with LA last year where he gets a bunch of TD's to boost his stock.

Same thing with David Johnson. His value is as a receiver at this stage. I'm more confident in him getting the receiving role over Duke than I am him being an effective runner. 

I have a bit more confidence to squeeze a so so year outta Fournette/Bell/Connor than Gurley/Johnson. Fournette would probably head my list but I think his receptions will go down a bit.

I haven't done any drafts but Ingram feels like someone that could fall a bit further than the others. He most definitely showed more juice than Gurley/Johnson in 2019.

 
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