joffer
Footballguy
I’ll be honest. Before this, I didn’t know a President could impose tariffs this easily.
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TRADE THREAD- President Trump signs Phase One of China agreement, China promises to double its purchases in 2020 (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Yep...the past few years have changed a lot about how I thought our government works, especially in regards to checks and balances. It’s a sad situation right now.
The Commish
Footballguy
Under normal circumstances he can't and I think this is one area where the Dems are really messing up. At least around here, they aren't talking about how Trump is only able to do this because Congress is letting him. We are already beginning to see the impacts. This should be a talking point from today til 2020.
H Jass
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Proposal for $12 billion in "emergency aid" to US farmers expected today.
The president is going to have taxpayers foot the bill for rescuing farmers from the president.
The president is going to have taxpayers foot the bill for rescuing farmers from the president.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm curious if we'll get push back from the "conservatives" here with this obvious attempt at government expansion
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You'll get Charmin-soft statements of disapproval and continued kowtowing when it comes to substantive action. Sorry to ruin the suspense!I'm curious if we'll get push back from the "conservatives" here with this obvious attempt at government expansion
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is really something. We tax our goods, then because Americans will be thrown out of work without waning we get to pay out billions in farm welfare. This is really some deal.
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msommer
Footballguy
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Create crisis. "Save" people from the crisis. It's kind of the oppoiste hippoccratic oath. The hippocritic oath.
Some conservatives will say it's ok to eliminate farm subsidies if other countries do the same. That's the excuse from big sugar. But as pointed out above, subsidies are hard to remove.I'm curious if we'll get push back from the "conservatives" here with this obvious attempt at government expansion
Don't farmers make a lot of money already?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The thing I really like about this is that "emergency aid" is a phrase normally reserved for natural disasters and whatnot. This is basically an admission that Trump's policy decisions are akin to hurricanes and blackouts.
Good to see another example of why we don't have money for education, healthcare, or infrastructure
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
How in the world is this ####### moron our president?
Farmers want trade not aid. Here's an example of the effect of tariffs on soybeans. As the price dropped sharply on soybeans farmers are already looking at planting less beans and more corn for 2019 which will drive corn prices lower.
David Dodds
Administrator
Most people don't walk into the car dealership, look at the sticker price and write a check for that amount.
You say no, that's too much. You get the better stereo added, you get less than 2% financing. A good negotiation means being the ####### at first and then saying yes only when it makes sense for you. The dealership isn't going to sell you a car if it doesn't make sense to them.
The US will win a trade war, because Trump is that ####### who wins these types of things. These leaders from countries that have had tariffs on our stuff and won't negotiate with Trump are going to find themselves on the outside looking in as their country's pain is going to be greater (in the short term) than ours because we buy everything.
Who blinks first? Trump's team believes it won't be the US. And as a few countries renegotiate, the pressure on those not renegotiating gets stronger.
Just admit it already. Trump's hardline policies on trade are going to work because he is negotiating from a giant position of strength because the current deals are awful for the US worker.
You say no, that's too much. You get the better stereo added, you get less than 2% financing. A good negotiation means being the ####### at first and then saying yes only when it makes sense for you. The dealership isn't going to sell you a car if it doesn't make sense to them.
The US will win a trade war, because Trump is that ####### who wins these types of things. These leaders from countries that have had tariffs on our stuff and won't negotiate with Trump are going to find themselves on the outside looking in as their country's pain is going to be greater (in the short term) than ours because we buy everything.
Who blinks first? Trump's team believes it won't be the US. And as a few countries renegotiate, the pressure on those not renegotiating gets stronger.
Just admit it already. Trump's hardline policies on trade are going to work because he is negotiating from a giant position of strength because the current deals are awful for the US worker.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
The individual must suffer for the good of the Collective. Comrade Trump has learned well at the foot of his Master.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
A distributive negotiation take on an integrative negotiation situation. You should know better than this.
Ordinary tariffs must be passed by Congress. The President's ability to impose tariffs without Congressional action is limited to safeguarding our national security. For example, the tariffs Trump recently imposed on Canada are because of the War of 1812.
Osaurus
Footballguy
Master negotiator at work.
China is already planting more soybeans. Its a cheap commodity, so we should always have an advantage over South American soy due to transportation costs. Now, I'm not sure.
It's not all that rare. Conservative and liberal economists agree on a bunch of things. That tariffs are bad is tied for #1 on the list. (See also: update within that thread. And another. And another.)
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
David Dodds
Administrator
All countries (including us) are going to feel pain from the tariffs. Lots of articles on China in some serious trouble very soon if the tariffs continue. I think you are dishonest with yourself if you expect this to be the USA's long-term strategy. Trump wants renegotiated trade deals. The other leaders were ignoring him. He invoked tariff deadlines to force those talks. Does anybody really believe none of the countries will renegotiate with him? Are they all going to bet on the impending impeachment that must be just months away now?
Osaurus
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
All of these farmers are going to reject their share of the 12 billion "for the good of the country", right?
David Dodds
Administrator
I think Trump and his team will all say tariffs are bad too. That's why he wants them lifted from these countries imposing them on our goods.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think you are dishonest with yourself if you trust Donald Trump to do anything successfully other than increase his and his family's own fame and wealth by snookering low-information consumers/voters with absurd promises and then leaving them holding the bag.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This reminds me of the discussions about FF or NFL owners or GMs who talk about cutting players but then try to trade them first. Why trade for them if they will just be FAs soon? - So why would a country cut a deal hurting their own if they know The US isn’t serious about long term pain?
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JuniorGong
Footballguy
Oh man, I agree with Dodds. I find Trump to be an awful President but this is one of two areas I agree with his approach.
msommer
Footballguy
Because he's won zero negotiations so far
msommer
Footballguy
The transportation advatage will still be there, but that will be eaten by the tariff. Which is probably the point you were making
David Dodds
Administrator
I am having a hard time keeping up. Is Trump doing all these things or is he always out golfing? If Trump is impeached, would these things cease to move forward or would they keep happening under Pence? I ask because I think things are happening because of the silent people doing these things while Trump is ####-talking with everyone on Twitter.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
1. You think China is not willing to impose more pain on their country than what US citizens are willing to put up with?
2. This is not a fixed market of only the US and one other country. Every country in the world is now looking to trade more with each other instead of the US. When this happens they minimize their pain, maybe prices are a little higher, while the US feels the full short term and long term effect of lost trade.
3. Don't underestimate how much Trump is hated around the world. From first hand discussions with people in Canada, Asia and Europe, I know people that would rather suffer pain than see their leader capitulate to his style.
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
I haven't read that much about President Trump's negotiations with trade partners.
Has he talked about the US lifting tariffs we impose on goods imported into America?
Has he talked about the US lifting tariffs we impose on goods imported into America?
David Dodds
Administrator
Shocked that Trump would troll his biggest haters. This has to be a first for him on Twitter.
msommer
Footballguy
Foreign Policy: Why China will win the trade war
Here's one with the opposing view
State News: Why the US will win the trade war with China
Notice the difference?
One uses numbers, reason, logic.
The other an expert that "just thinks" something but has no argument to support it.
David Dodds
Administrator
He wants to claim wins on trade deals whether they are real or can just be used to secure votes down the road. This is what he ran on and a big reason I suspect he was elected. I suppose if the world can stay strong and refuse to ever meet with him so he doesn't get the win(s), then he clearly won't win re-election. These leaders were just ignoring his administration's calls to renegotiate because they don't see a need for new deals.
Donnie is using the tariffs to force the meetings.
It's an ####### tactic and one that could cripple the whole world's economy, but who better than Trump to be the ####### representing the US. He doesn't care what others think about him. He is that perfect daredevil playing chicken because he is fully willing to crash the whole thing.
Other countries WILL BLINK. Count on it.
Do you think this will happen before or after execution of the 40000 sealed indictments that will take down the Clinton Global Pedo Ring?
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
They just need to work harder if they need more money. Of course if porn star Stormy Daniels lover, Trump, doesn't start a trade war none of this would be necessary.
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m not.
If I were other countries I would hold out and try and punish the US economy until 2020. If Trump gets re-elected then I might be concede. But not now.
David Dodds
Administrator
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You think you're having a hard time keeping up- I can't even make sense of this post!
He's doing what he's always done, all his life. He's a salesman with no eye for detail or long term planning. He pitches vague, easy answers to gullible marks, makes things look good for a while by leveraging the future and/or making even grander promises along with excuses for the delay in delivering what was promised, and then he bails and leaves them holding the bag. He did it with his real estate investments. He did it with his casinos. He did it with contractors. He did it with Trump University. It's his MO. And now he's doing it with the American taxpayer by ramping up spending and passing tax cuts during an economic boom (an unprecedented move as far as I know) to make himself look good in the short term, without regard to available revenue and political capital when the next economic downturn inevitably arrives.
And what he's doing with tariffs is similar- he's taking the short term political gains from the tariffs in steel country and other places where it helps for now, and softening losses by allocating billions of taxpayer money to aid packages so he doesn't take as hard of a political hit in the places it hurts . And when it all comes due he'll either be long gone already or he'll depart, call his presidency a success and leave the rest of us to pay the price while his family continues to profit for decades off their expanded fan base and questionable morality.
It boggles my mind that people don't see this. I can understand falling for a scam if nobody points it out to you ahead of time, but people on both sides of the aisle have been been pointing and yelling and screaming about this scam for years now.
msommer
Footballguy
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