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TRADE THREAD- President Trump signs Phase One of China agreement, China promises to double its purchases in 2020 (3 Viewers)

bradyfan said:
Trump is selling “short term pain for long term gain”.  The results will be clear as we look at impacts on trade deficits.  Is Trump playing a little numbers game, sure.  You look at another President’s policy to stop China from dumping honey and you know exactly what to expect.
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Short term pain will also have " long term ramifications." If China finds the US can't be a reliable source for product such as soybeans they will make other arrangements. They imported more corn from the U S but decided to grow more corn themselves and purchase more soybeans. South America grows more soybeans but lack the infrastructure and transportation to export quickly. China has explored and already invested in improving South America's infrastructure.

 
lazyike said:
If implement dealers go out of business thousands of workers at Case IH and John Deere etc get laid off.
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Very true.  They get laid off a lot the way it is already.  My uncle just retired from John Deere this year.  There are a lot of John Deere workers in my area.  I'm actually heading to warranty writer training for Case IH tomorrow.

 
Sheriff Bart said:
What does CBD oil do for you?  Heard a guy selling it on the radio and all I could understand from his pitch is that it doesn't get you high.
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It's great for arthritis/chronic pain.  Whoopi Goldberg launched a line of CBD products targeting women with severe menstrual cramps in 2016 or so.

 
NREC34 said:
#### is getting real. Hate Trump but hope he wins this. 
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They will now place tariffs on $200 billion US exports to China. And this will continue until 100% of all US exports to China is hurt by tariffs. At which point less than 40% of Chinese exports to the US will be hurt by tariffs...

How does this lead to "winning"?

What are the "win" criteria?

 
Can’t recall if I already posted this but look for North Korea to become the new country for low cost manufacturing 

 
msommer said:
They will now place tariffs on $200 billion US exports to China. And this will continue until 100% of all US exports to China is hurt by tariffs. At which point less than 40% of Chinese exports to the US will be hurt by tariffs...

How does this lead to "winning"?

What are the "win" criteria?
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We win when Trump tells us we win.  Simples.

 
NREC34 said:
#### is getting real. Hate Trump but hope he wins this. 
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He is taking on something that no one else wanted to take on.   Is there any doubt that we as a country are getting the raw end of the deal with ALL the current tariffs?  I'm listening.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
BMW is moving some production out of the US.

- Last I checked a fair amount of their plants were in the Red South.
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So lets do the math, shall we?

Trump hits China with tariffs on various products imported into the US.  US consumer now pays more for those products.  US Consumer = loser.

China retaliates and slaps tariffs on SUVs.  Company responds by moving production out of the US and into China.  US Worker = Loser.

So we pay more, and lose jobs.  I am struggling to see the upside here.  Well, I see the upside for China, and Chinese labor - they are winning bigly.

 
Sinn Fein said:
So lets do the math, shall we?

Trump hits China with tariffs on various products imported into the US.  US consumer now pays more for those products.  US Consumer = loser.

China retaliates and slaps tariffs on SUVs.  Company responds by moving production out of the US and into China.  US Worker = Loser.

So we pay more, and lose jobs.  I am struggling to see the upside here.  Well, I see the upside for China, and Chinese labor - they are winning bigly.
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you’re just not seeing the bigly picture yet

 
Sinn Fein said:
So lets do the math, shall we?

Trump hits China with tariffs on various products imported into the US.  US consumer now pays more for those products.  US Consumer = loser.

China retaliates and slaps tariffs on SUVs.  Company responds by moving production out of the US and into China.  US Worker = Loser.

So we pay more, and lose jobs.  I am struggling to see the upside here.  Well, I see the upside for China, and Chinese labor - they are winning bigly.
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And Russia, and North Korea, and a number of other countries. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
So lets do the math, shall we?

Trump hits China with tariffs on various products imported into the US.  US consumer now pays more for those products.  US Consumer = loser.

China retaliates and slaps tariffs on SUVs.  Company responds by moving production out of the US and into China.  US Worker = Loser.

So we pay more, and lose jobs.  I am struggling to see the upside here.  Well, I see the upside for China, and Chinese labor - they are winning bigly.
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>>BMW builds key SUV models in Spartanburg County, where it employs 10,000 people. Those vehicles are exported to 140 countries, making BMW the largest U.S. auto exporter. Most of the cars made in the Upstate are shipped overseas through the Port of Charleston's Columbus Street Terminal.

BMW and Chinese partner Brilliance Automotive Group Holdings signed an agreement Monday to expand their joint venture, the German automaker said in a news release. The deal will boost the number of cars produced annually at two facilities in China to 520,000 by 2019.<<

- It’s just sad.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
>>BMW builds key SUV models in Spartanburg County, where it employs 10,000 people. Those vehicles are exported to 140 countries, making BMW the largest U.S. auto exporter. Most of the cars made in the Upstate are shipped overseas through the Port of Charleston's Columbus Street Terminal.

BMW and Chinese partner Brilliance Automotive Group Holdings signed an agreement Monday to expand their joint venture, the German automaker said in a news release. The deal will boost the number of cars produced annually at two facilities in China to 520,000 by 2019.<<

- It’s just sad.
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What's really sad is the Trump supporters won't mind losing their jobs because they act as if we are fighting WWII and sacrifice is necessary to defeat an enemy, an enemy that doesn't exist. 

 
Sheriff Bart said:
What's really sad is the Trump supporters won't mind losing their jobs because they act as if we are fighting WWII and sacrifice is necessary to defeat an enemy, an enemy that doesn't exist. 
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Do you feel that Chinese stealing intellectual property and copying all kinds of other stuff is a problem? 

I’m no Trump supporter but I would say yes, they are an enemy that very much does exist. 

 
NREC34 said:
Do you feel that Chinese stealing intellectual property and copying all kinds of other stuff is a problem? 

I’m no Trump supporter but I would say yes, they are an enemy that very much does exist. 
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It's definitely a problem.  I don't see how these tariffs are addressing that though. It just hurts the little guy, not China. They'll still be stealing our IP. 

 
irishidiot said:
He is taking on something that no one else wanted to take on.   Is there any doubt that we as a country are getting the raw end of the deal with ALL the current tariffs?  I'm listening.
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Yes, the old (not current) trade situation was not great for the US.

Trumps “solution” is making it worse.

Think of it this way:  

The US trade situation had an ingrown toenail.  Painful and problematic, but not crippling.

Trump is like Kathy Bates, and his trade war is her sledgehammer.  In his mind, problem solved, but we’re going to end up like Paul Sheldon.

 
irishidiot said:
He is taking on something that no one else wanted to take on.   Is there any doubt that we as a country are getting the raw end of the deal with ALL the current tariffs?  I'm listening.
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And oddly our economy has outperformed the rest of the world significantly post 2008 crash. But please. Solve our problems.

 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/free-trade-is-a-two-way-street-1501542569

China, the EU and other trading partners put up formidable barriers to imports from America.

The Trump administration recently celebrated the workers and businesses that make this country great. The purpose of “Made in America Week” was to recognize that, when given a fair chance to compete, Americans can make and sell some of the best, most innovative products in the world.

Unfortunately, many governments across the globe have pursued policies that put American workers and businesses at a disadvantage. For these governments, President Trump and his administration have a clear message: It is time to rebalance your trade policies so that they are fair, free and reciprocal.

Many nations express commitment to free markets while criticizing the U.S. for what they characterize as a protectionist stance. Yet these very nations engage in unfair trading practices, erect barriers to American exports, and maintain significant trade surpluses with us. They argue that our $752.5 billion trade deficit in goods last year was simply a natural and inevitable consequence of free trade. So, they contend, America should have no complaints.

Our major trading partners issue frequent statements regarding their own free-trade bona fides, but do they practice what they preach? Or are they protectionists dressed in free-market clothing?

The Trump administration recently celebrated the workers and businesses that make this country great. The purpose of “Made in America Week” was to recognize that, when given a fair chance to compete, Americans can make and sell some of the best, most innovative products in the world.

Unfortunately, many governments across the globe have pursued policies that put American workers and businesses at a disadvantage. For these governments, President Trump and his administration have a clear message: It is time to rebalance your trade policies so that they are fair, free and reciprocal.

Many nations express commitment to free markets while criticizing the U.S. for what they characterize as a protectionist stance. Yet these very nations engage in unfair trading practices, erect barriers to American exports, and maintain significant trade surpluses with us. They argue that our $752.5 billion trade deficit in goods last year was simply a natural and inevitable consequence of free trade. So, they contend, America should have no complaints.

Our major trading partners issue frequent statements regarding their own free-trade bona fides, but do they practice what they preach? Or are they protectionists dressed in free-market clothing?

When it comes to trade in goods, our deficits with China and the EU are $347 billion and $146.8 billion, respectively. As the nearby chart shows, China’s tariffs are higher than those of the U.S. in 20 of the 22 major categories of goods. Europe imposes higher tariffs than the U.S. in 17 of 22 categories, though the chart does show that the EU and China are much different regarding tariff rates.

The EU charges a 10% tariff on imported American cars, while the U.S. imposes only a 2.5% tariff on imported European cars. Today Europe exports 1.14 million automobiles to the U.S., nearly four times as many as the U.S. exports to Europe. China, which is the world’s largest automobile market, has a 25% tariff on imported vehicles and imposes even higher tariffs on luxury vehicles.

In addition to tariffs, both China and Europe enforce formidable nontariff trade barriers against imports. Examples include onerous and opaque procedures for registering and gaining certification for imports; unscientific sanitary rules, especially with regard to agricultural goods; requirements that companies build local factories; and forced technology transfers. The list goes on.

Both China and Europe also bankroll their exports through grants, low-cost loans, energy subsidies, special value-added tax refunds, and below-market real-estate sales and leases, among other means. Comparable levels of government support do not exist in the U.S. If these countries really are free traders, why do they have such formidable tariff and nontariff barriers?

Until we make better deals with our trading partners, we will never know precisely how much of our deficit in goods is due to such trickery. But there can be no question that these barriers are responsible for a significant portion of our current trade imbalance.

China is not a market economy. The Chinese government creates national champions and takes other actions that significantly distort markets. Responding to such actions with trade remedies is not protectionist. In fact, the World Trade Organization specifically permits its members to take action when other countries are subsidizing, dumping and engaging in other unfair trade practices.

Consistent with WTO rules, the U.S. has since Jan. 20 brought 54 trade-remedy actions—antidumping and countervailing duty investigations—compared with 40 brought during the same period last year. The U.S. currently has 403 outstanding orders against 42 countries.

But unfortunately, in its annual reports, the WTO consistently casts the increase of trade enforcement cases as evidence of protectionism by the countries lodging the complaints. Apparently, the possibility never occurs to the WTO that there are more trade cases because there are more trade abuses.

The WTO should protect free and fair trade among nations, not attack those trade remedies necessary to ensure a level playing field. Defending U.S. workers and businesses against this onslaught should not be mislabeled as protectionism. Insisting on fair trade is the best way to ensure the long-term strength of the international trading system.

The Trump administration believes in free and fair trade and will use every available tool to counter the protectionism of those who pledge allegiance to free trade while violating its core principles. The U.S. is working to restore a level playing field, and under President Trump’s leadership, we will do so.
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Teyana said:
The Trump administration recently celebrated the workers and businesses that make this country great. The purpose of “Made in America Week” was to recognize that, when given a fair chance to compete, Americans can make and sell some of the best, most innovative products in the world.
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I have to say, I was expecting a Trumpite penned this op-ed but the Secretary of Commerce, wow.

 
Teyana said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYUDBzS1O0
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I’ll give you points for going with an objective industry expert. However some more on this, from late June’s CNBC report on Lutz’s comments:

>>On Wednesday, Toyota said a 25 percent tariff on vehicles would increase the costof every auto sold in the U.S.

And earlier in the day, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, a trade group representing domestic and foreign automakers with plants in the U.S., warned that the levy would cost consumers thousands of dollars and ultimately lead to job cuts.

The group predicted a 25 percent tariff would increase the average price of a new vehicle by $5,800. That would amount to a $45 billion tax on the auto industry, it said.

On top of the increased costs, the tariffs, if implemented, would also “unleash … a real trade war,” AutoNation Chairman and CEO Mike Jackson told "Squawk Box" on Wednesday.

"Automotive tariffs will make steel tariffs look like a company picnic," said Jackson, head of the nation’s largest auto retailer. “It will raise prices dramatically for consumers in the United States. It will be inflationary."<<

 
Peter Navarro: China Underestimated Trump’s Resolve to Win the Battle for Our High-Tech Future

“This is a strategic competitor that is very difficult to negotiate with,” he said. “I think the flaw in their whole negotiating strategy is they’ve really underestimated President Donald Trump. He knows where this nation needs to go. He knows what China is doing to this nation in terms of unfair trade practices and industrial espionage. I think they’ve underestimated his resolve.”

“He’s imposed tariffs on these high-technology industries to protect our own companies here in America, and as China has been foolish enough to retaliate against us, the president has increased the amount of tariffs,” he said.

“That’s where we stand. We are not interested in anything except free, fair, reciprocal, and balanced trade. We sure are not getting that from China,” he declared.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRnIse9v_jc

White House National Trade Council and Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Director Peter Navarro spoke about the U.S.-China trade relationship. He released a report from the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy outlining why the U.S. must be strong on trade. June 28th, 2018.
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