Trade after trade deadline (1 Viewer)

[hauser42]

In total points league I play in a trade was made week 9, I just looked at the Transaction report last night since week 8 as I wanted to make a move. Last 2 years myself and another owner have asked to move trade deadline back to week 12. League voted it down each time as only 3 total teams voted to move it back. Now two teams vote against it made the trade and a team in the one of the money spots gained points with TJ Housamama for Kevin Smith.

Commish was there and I told him he had to he had to cancel trade and give owners zeros for those two players if they are started. His response was he could not change it and made a mistake, and could not reverse it. Owners there are split on the trade some see no big deal while others are upset as the rules have been broken.

16 points is a lot, last year I beat the commish by 2 points to win league. Am I over the top with this complaint??

 

[Ladsud]

Whats the point of rules if the league doesnt follow them?

 

[Godsbrother]

what is the point in having a trade deadline if you allow teams to make trades after it expires?

 

[madd futher]

You need to elect a new commissioner next year or get into a new league.

Any conscientious commissioner should have noticed the trade and reversed it immediately, before the game was even played. But since the game WAS played, all starter's points should count EXCEPT those players who started that were involved in the illegal trade. Those positions should get a ZERO, AND THE TRADE SHOULD NOW BE REVERSED.

The commissioner himself, by not having the balls to take the appropriate action, is negatively impacting the integrety of the league.

If I were you, I wouldn't let this one go. I'd call for a new election of commissioner for next year immediately after the season ends.

However, I totally disagree with you about allowing a late trade deadlines. After playing the equivalent of more than 20 seasons of fantasy play, I have become a very strong advocate for an early trade deadline. So many "questionable" trades, and league discord results from trades between a contending team and a non0contender that could be eliminated by an early trading deadline.

I'm in 5 leagues this year, and except for my dynasty league where trades are allowed right up to the play-offs, the other four leagues have trading deadlines ranging from Nov. 1 and Nov 20. Personally I believe the 2nd week of November or before is just about the best timing.

 

[FF Newbie]

Obviously should be reversed.

 

[CalBear]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

 

[FF Newbie]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. It's not his job to check the transaction report every day to make sure no one is cheating. If there is a trade deadline, it has to be enforced. Period. Especially when this owner has been trying to get it moved back every year and it keeps getting shot down.

 

[Casting Couch]

You need to elect a new commissioner next year or get into a new league.

Any conscientious commissioner should have noticed the trade and reversed it immediately, before the game was even played. But since the game WAS played, all starter's points should count EXCEPT those players who started that were involved in the illegal trade. Those positions should get a ZERO, AND THE TRADE SHOULD NOW BE REVERSED.

The commissioner himself, by not having the balls to take the appropriate action, is negatively impacting the integrety of the league.

If I were you, I wouldn't let this one go. I'd call for a new election of commissioner for next year immediately after the season ends.

However, I totally disagree with you about allowing a late trade deadlines. After playing the equivalent of more than 20 seasons of fantasy play, I have become a very strong advocate for an early trade deadline. So many "questionable" trades, and league discord results from trades between a contending team and a non0contender that could be eliminated by an early trading deadline.

I'm in 5 leagues this year, and except for my dynasty league where trades are allowed right up to the play-offs, the other four leagues have trading deadlines ranging from Nov. 1 and Nov 20. Personally I believe the 2nd week of November or before is just about the best timing.

Brilliant from start to finish.

 

[CalBear]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. It's not his job to check the transaction report every day to make sure no one is cheating. If there is a trade deadline, it has to be enforced. Period. Especially when this owner has been trying to get it moved back every year and it keeps getting shot down.

Look at it from the standpoint of the other teams; do you really think they should have to take zeroes because they made an honest mistake? Plus, there have been two waiver periods since then, when they might have made different decisions if the trade had not gone through. I think the statute of limitations has expired on this one, and it's hard to see how the poster's team has been materially damaged.It's definitely a big screw up on the commish's part.

 

[Pnishthm]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong. It's not his job to check the transaction report every day to make sure no one is cheating. If there is a trade deadline, it has to be enforced. Period. Especially when this owner has been trying to get it moved back every year and it keeps getting shot down.

Look at it from the standpoint of the other teams; do you really think they should have to take zeroes because they made an honest mistake? Plus, there have been two waiver periods since then, when they might have made different decisions if the trade had not gone through. I think the statute of limitations has expired on this one, and it's hard to see how the poster's team has been materially damaged.It's definitely a big screw up on the commish's part.

Cal you and I seem to be in the monority here but I agree 100% with you.

 

[Sinrman]

I've listened to both sides on this, and I can see it from both angles. However, I have to agree with Calbear on this one. If you had caught it pretty quickly, and maybe it affected just one week's worth of scores, I'd continue pressing the issue. But with it affecting two weeks and not just one, you just can't go back and say "SORRY!" and zero things out. Rules are rules, I agree, and it should have never been broken in this case. You make a strong argument, and you even tried last year it seems to push the trade deadline back but was shot done! But the Commish has to make a decision, and I think he's made the right one here.

Now during the offseason, I would sure as hell push the issue again and make sure it never happens again. Spell out exactly what happens if that situation ever occurs again. And if you're on a website, like myfantasyleague.com, then you can set it to not allow trades at all after a certain date, so it takes the guesswork out for you...

 

[belljr]

This is 1 reason why I have to "approve" all trades. ANything that comes in after the deadline, I decline and remind the league about it.

Of course I send emails out every week as reminders when the deadline is

 

[Longhorn daddy]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

I didn't know I was speeding, the cop gave me a ticket anyway.Took it to court, prosecutor said, no malicious intent but speeding nonetheless, judge said pay up.

 

[jagbag]

This is 1 reason why I have to "approve" all trades. ANything that comes in after the deadline, I decline and remind the league about it.Of course I send emails out every week as reminders when the deadline is

 

[hauser42]

This league has been running for 20 years and the same Commish. I joined it 5 years ago as a couple of buddies are in it. This trade deadline has been the same since they started the league.

I ran a league for 10 years and helped run another one for another 10 till this year. Only once did someone try to make a trade after deadline and we caught it. Everyone knows the rules and followed them.

Trade can be reversed because the rules page states when trade deadline is and everyone gets them. If they dont read them it is their own fault. the team that got Housh is in the top 5 and from now gained and advantage of all his points for is when his WR core was weak.

I dont seeing it being reversed because commish and his click vote together. They changed the scoring day of the draft, making my VBD sheet a little off.

Next week at lineup night going to take the rules sheet in tell him to wipe his ### with it. Also going to ask him to turn his commish fee into the league pool, he gets a free team for being a commish. Know I will not be back next year either way, since this shows lack of leadership on his part.

 

[CalBear]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed.

I didn't know I was speeding, the cop gave me a ticket anyway.Took it to court, prosecutor said, no malicious intent but speeding nonetheless, judge said pay up.

That's a incorrect analogy for a number of reasons, the main one being that the incident wasn't noticed until after the transaction went through and further actions were taken based on that fact. Here's a better analogy for you: Person A is selling a house to Person B. The house has a contractor's lien on it because Person A is a deadbeat who didn't pay the plumber last summer. The lender and title companies fail to notice that the house has a lien on it, they let the transaction go through, and Person B sells his other house and moves in. Then, two weeks later, someone notices the contractor's lien. Unfortunately for the contractor, the transaction can't be unwound at this point; the time to apply the lien was before the transaction closed. The contractor will just have to pursue his own mechanisms for getting his money from Person A.

To look at it another way--how long can you wait to invalidate a transaction? Could you wait until week 16 and then bring this up, and invalidate seven weeks of results? At some point, what's done is done and you have to move forward with it.

And really, Houshmandzadeh for Kevin Smith? A trade of the #20 WR for the #21 RB will violate the integrity of the league? Do you really care about this that much?

 

[BigDave]

Rules are there for a reason! Commish is there for reason!

You can't expect a team owner to police everyone. The system should allow/disallow it. The commish should keep an eye on it.

We had an owner put a player on IR, when we stated specifically at the draft you couldn't do that this year. He added another player so his roster was over the limit. I caught it 2 weeks later when I was looking for something else and we went back and gave the owner a zero for the player he picked up and started that week. That player won the game for him, so it was reversed to a loss.

This isn't the NFL where you can fine someone after the fact. If the commish has some nuts, he goes in and corrects it for each week.

Prevents this from happening in the future!

 

[habsfan]

Don't the hosts of most online leagues enforce trade deadlines automatically?

 

[Pnishthm]

Rules are there for a reason! Commish is there for reason! You can't expect a team owner to police everyone. The system should allow/disallow it. The commish should keep an eye on it. We had an owner put a player on IR, when we stated specifically at the draft you couldn't do that this year. He added another player so his roster was over the limit. I caught it 2 weeks later when I was looking for something else and we went back and gave the owner a zero for the player he picked up and started that week. That player won the game for him, so it was reversed to a loss. This isn't the NFL where you can fine someone after the fact. If the commish has some nuts, he goes in and corrects it for each week. Prevents this from happening in the future!

So how many weeks have to go by before it's official? There has to be some sort of time frame. What if we were two weeks into the fantasy playoffs before it was noticed or brought up?

 

[Pnishthm]

I don't think you can unwind the transaction now, after two additional weeks of games. If you'd objected immediately, you might have had a case, but you can't go back and change it at this point. The players involved were probably not intentionally trying to circumvent the system, they just didn't know the trade deadline had passed. The fact that someone got more points out of it is not a reason to reverse the trade; it's the reason the trade was made in the first place.

I didn't know I was speeding, the cop gave me a ticket anyway.Took it to court, prosecutor said, no malicious intent but speeding nonetheless, judge said pay up.

But what if you were speeding and the cop saw you two weeks later and decided to give you a ticket then because you were speeding two weeks prior?

 

[BigDave]

So how many weeks have to go by before it's official? There has to be some sort of time frame. What if we were two weeks into the fantasy playoffs before it was noticed or brought up?

In a perfect world, you would catch it the same week.

However, is this case there was blame to go around to a few people for not changing hte system or policing.

Not fair to the owner who lost a game because someone was cheating and got away with it that week.

Cheating is wrong no matter when it happens. The cheater should not have a time limit to get away with it.

"I can cheat, but if you don't catch it right away it stands"????????

 

[hauser42]

Don't the hosts of most online leagues enforce trade deadlines automatically?

We turn all the transcations and lineups in at the bar and commish runs it thru a program. Done so that bar gets more business.There are no playoffs as it is a total points league. It is a fair trade, just that it was past the deadline. I made the comment that why cant I now make a trade with another team. Commish said deadline is passed and you cant. My response was it was passed after week 8 games started and move was made in week 9.I dont think there will be any balls to change it, but wait till this team beats out some other owner for money. There will be a huge blowup in the league and something will change for next year. I know because I brought it up there will not be much put into it. To get into the league I had to be voted in, only time in the league a player had to get voted in. Year I was voted in 2 new guys also joined and league has changed couple owners the last 2 years with no voting. Bar owner wanted me in since we share a team in another league and I only go to his bar which the league is run at, he still is pissed about the vote.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

i would reverse the trade but not change any scores. leagues should have a deadline each week where scores are final. mistakes happen.

 

[CalBear]

Cheating is wrong no matter when it happens. The cheater should not have a time limit to get away with it. "I can cheat, but if you don't catch it right away it stands"????????

I think it's inaccurate to call this "cheating". It's totally plausible that this is an honest mistake by the teams involved; heck, I'm the commish of my league and I'd have to go look up what the trade deadline is. Sometimes when there's an honest mistake in a minor matter, you just let it go.And once again; could you wait until week 16 and then bring this up? If you did, would you invalidate all the games from weeks 9-16? At some point the integrity of the league is more compromised by changing the results than it is by the initial infraction.

 

[BigDave]

Cheating is wrong no matter when it happens. The cheater should not have a time limit to get away with it. "I can cheat, but if you don't catch it right away it stands"????????

I think it's inaccurate to call this "cheating". It's totally plausible that this is an honest mistake by the teams involved; heck, I'm the commish of my league and I'd have to go look up what the trade deadline is. Sometimes when there's an honest mistake in a minor matter, you just let it go.And once again; could you wait until week 16 and then bring this up? If you did, would you invalidate all the games from weeks 9-16? At some point the integrity of the league is more compromised by changing the results than it is by the initial infraction.

We give the commish a break on the price for the thankless job over the course of the season. He gets half off the amount for being commish. He forgot to set CBS Sportsline to not allow an IR player. The fact that he missed it was a mistake. The fact the guy did it was not IMO. We discussed this at length at the draft and he was the only owner to use the IR this year. Next year it'll be fixed on the system.In the original example on this thread, the trade deadline should have been imposed by the system or monitored by the commish if it can't be automated. Someone dropped the ball there. It's a tough deal, but why should an owner lose a game and possible not make the playoffs or win because of a commish or a program. We all try to police this but there's not enough time if you have a job and a family!

 

[CalBear]

It's a tough deal, but why should an owner lose a game and possible not make the playoffs or win because of a commish or a program. We all try to police this but there's not enough time if you have a job and a family!

The problem is, you have a situation where the league process and the commish are involved, no matter how you decide it; there's no way to go back and make the world the way it was before the transaction happened, because there have been other consequences of the transaction, such as lineup decisions and waiver wire choices, which would have been different if the transaction had been rejected.

 

[FF Newbie]

The problem is, you have a situation where the league process and the commish are involved, no matter how you decide it; there's no way to go back and make the world the way it was before the transaction happened, because there have been other consequences of the transaction, such as lineup decisions and waiver wire choices, which would have been different if the transaction had been rejected.

They cheated. They don't deserve to have everything made hunky dory for them. Cheating should have consequences.

 

[fsufan]

what is the point in having a trade deadline if you allow teams to make trades after it expires?

maybe their league is like the MLB

 

[supersecretid]

OP, is English your first language?

 

[Pnishthm]

So how many weeks have to go by before it's official? There has to be some sort of time frame. What if we were two weeks into the fantasy playoffs before it was noticed or brought up?In a perfect world, you would catch it the same week. However, is this case there was blame to go around to a few people for not changing hte system or policing. Not fair to the owner who lost a game because someone was cheating and got away with it that week. Cheating is wrong no matter when it happens. The cheater should not have a time limit to get away with it. "I can cheat, but if you don't catch it right away it stands"????????

You never answered the question...

 

[BigDave]

You never answered the question...

I protested when I found out after two weeks. The commish agreed to change the game where it had a material effect on the outcome.It didn't matter how long I thought it should go back, it was the commish that ruled. He felt it was reversable.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think you have to let the points stand as the Commish made an error BUT reverse that trade. It was an illegal trade. You can't punish the teams because the Commish allowed it and they were acting in good faith (I'm assuming).

The points as scored stand but the players revert to their original teams. This minimizes the damage of an illegal trade to just two players for two weeks. I think that's the best you can do.

 

[Jimmy James]

I think the pivotal question that determines what should happen is what sort of notice the owners get of a trade in this league. If there was notice of a trade given to the protesting owner and he only noticed the rule was violated two weeks later, it's too late. The trade should stand, and the commissioner should be sanctioned in some manner (vote to remove him, I'd think).

If, however, there was not appropriate notice of the trade to the protesting owner, it gets more complicated. I think the first week's results stand but the second week's results might not be final enough to stand. That would depend on when the protest came in. The trade should be reversed in this case.

 

[Pnishthm]

You never answered the question...

I protested when I found out after two weeks. The commish agreed to change the game where it had a material effect on the outcome.It didn't matter how long I thought it should go back, it was the commish that ruled. He felt it was reversable.

OK you STILL never answered the question... how may weeks have to go by before a weeks results are final? There has to be some time frame. A week? Two weeks? Six weeks? End of the season? Can you go back 8 weeks later and change results? Give me a time frame is all I'm asking.

 

[blend]

Your league software allows teams to make trades after the deadline???

 

[BigDave]

You never answered the question...

I protested when I found out after two weeks. The commish agreed to change the game where it had a material effect on the outcome.It didn't matter how long I thought it should go back, it was the commish that ruled. He felt it was reversable.

OK you STILL never answered the question... how may weeks have to go by before a weeks results are final? There has to be some time frame. A week? Two weeks? Six weeks? End of the season? Can you go back 8 weeks later and change results? Give me a time frame is all I'm asking.

2 Weeks IMO 2 Weeks per the commishYOU????

 

[da_budman]

I think you have to let the points stand as the Commish made an error BUT reverse that trade. It was an illegal trade. You can't punish the teams because the Commish allowed it and they were acting in good faith (I'm assuming). The points as scored stand but the players revert to their original teams. This minimizes the damage of an illegal trade to just two players for two weeks. I think that's the best you can do.

This. Its not a head to head league so the damage is minimal. It is the responsibility of the league mates to know the rules so if they made different waiver wire decisions based on having these 2 new players, TOUGH. It's also the comissioners responsibility since he is the one who processed the illegal move. You have to fix it as soon as it is noticed. There is no perfect solution here but this is about the best you can do. FWIW In the league I commish I made a mistake last year having to do with roster restrictions when I processed drop/adds. (I process them manually because the software cannot handle our particular rule) The team made the same mistake by putting in an illegal waiver wire move. Long story short, they got to keep the illegal players points for that week since it wasnt noticed until I processed drop adds for the following week (at which time I made him correct his roster imbalance) No perfect solution here but thats about the best you can do.