DoubleG said:
AngryPatriot said:
Tom Brady is the fastest quarterback to 100 wins (131 games.) Montana 139, Bradshaw 147....
The fact that Bradshaw is in the top 3 tells you all you need to know about QBs and win % - that they correlation as an indication of QB ability is virtually non-exsistant. Bradshaw wouldn't be in the top 20 QBs of all time, if you were using any criteria that actually involved QB play (possibly not even top 50). Using win % as an indication of QB eptitude is even more proposterous than using it as an indication of a pitcher's ability in baseball. QBs, while one of the (if not the) most important position on a football team, still only play on offense. Defense, special teams and numerous other factors make up a win or loss in the NFL.
I couldn't disagree more.Basically the opposite of your argument is why Dan Marino was great to me. I don't recall too many seasons with a great D, ST or a solid run game. He didn't win a Supe but he won plenty of games.
How about them Rams in 2010?
What was the Colts record before Manning?
Bills before AND after Jim Kelly?
There are a slew of examples of QBs tremendous impact on the game including a team's win %
A ton of players in addition the QB changed on those teams you mentioned, why do you give almost all the credit to the QB.
(I don't disagree on Brees, snipped)Because that's the purpose of this thread, I guess.
At any time a conversation can get more complex of course.
I love the Titans OL and that previous Chiefs OL and years ago Cowboys OL. I'd be comfy saying neither team would have won a game without them and discussing if anyone disagreed. Those conversations could go to red-hot LJ or Big 3 in Dallas etc but ...that's the nature of team sports discussion-to single someone out and go from there. You'd have a hard time finding threads here that mention all 11 offensive guys and are including everyone so.... I guess I'm saying I just do, because we do. Hope that made some sense.
That said, it's not easy to pinpoint one reason for any team's success.
There is probably no better example for this thread/this discussion than Sam Bradford right now. Whether you compare him to those in college that were also excellent QBs that are currently rookies or whether it's last year's Rams QB or "ordinary average" type NFL QBs or guys like Peyton and Brady.
Words or thoughts like impact and change and much improved come to mind.
I love Bradford's potential and blah blah blah but I sure am not going to predict he'll win at a Brady like pace or win as many Supes as Brady. However isn't it realistic to predict pro bowls in his future, maybe an all-pro and that someday the Rams will play in a Superbowl?
You would have been borderline insane to predict a Supe appearance for the Rams last year or really any kind of success for them. And it's all suddenly changed.
(To throw another top player in here, even if diff position) Steven Jackson is a terrific runningback. A beast of a surprisingly fast agile man that maybe could have dominated the NFL behind a better line on a different team. He joined a great team when he was drafted. The opportunity to make an impact wasn't so much there as the opportunity to mess up a good thing. It's a different scenario completely.
Comparing Jackson's impact versus Bradford's impact does have some apples and oranges feel to it.
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We don't associate impact on wins(on wins) with OL and DL too too often. Even when we do it's a guy like Bruce Smith and his QB or RB or WR etc get the credit too. It's rarely ever, if ever, that one of them gets the bulk of the credit. WRs and CBs are somewhat similar as well.
The way the draft affords bad teams the opportunity to acquire the best players, the way teams draft so many DL, OL, WR, CBs in the top 10 picks, it sets up this whole impact system. RBs and QBs are all that's (for the most part) left in top 10 picks of drafts to turn a franchise around. We already discredited to some degree the other positions.
The Rams could have signed 10,000 free agents and acquired every draft pick from the second round on and had this huge fictitious tryout for their team this year but, we'd still be talking about Bradford's impact there.
There's also the uneviable feeling of rooting for a loser or a losing team or some feeling of impending loss.
Drew Bledsoe threw a pretty ball and has some awesome stats but the guy had some dunderhead mistakes that were hard to shake. I specifically recall one this many years later where the Steelers DE dropped only like 2-3 steps in front of the TE (zone blitz big back then) and Bledsoe threw it right to him. I mean right to him. So me (and countless Pats fans likely too) were screaming at the TV oh WTF cmon are you kidding me etc.
Yes Bledsoe came off the bench and made a tough throw in the playoffs while Brady got hurt (or somesuch) and Brady's first ring wasn't all Brady in the playoffs. The attitude was different though. The chances of success were different. BB coached both so it's not necessarily him changing this attitude of fans. It was Brady's presence.
The Saints weren't that good before Brees and/or lived ridiculously well off a QB that locked onto one WR and somehow other NFL teams struggled to stop it. It's not like Brooks found work elsewhere with all these teams knocking on his door to come play for them when the Saints didn't re-sign him and he was at a prime age for QBs.
The Colts were just bad pre Manning.
The Bills (maybe moreso than any team) hired a USFL guy and were fortunate to know which player's games in the USFL would translate to the NFL and they were able to get Cornelius Bennett and Thurman and...yep there's plenty of love to go around for a Bills team that went from not being any good to being one of the deepest teams around but Kelly (like tons of QBs) gets credit for the impact. Not going to PFR and looking, I'm pretty sure they were like 8-8 his first year or 7-9 or somesuch. It wasn't 1-15 or 2-14. They didn't lay down for anyone and they had this fight to them that was oh so welcome after being the doormat of the AFC East. And they allowed enough sacks that led to fumbles or errant passes or injuries that panic set in when a LB or DE was bearing down on the QB. Suddenly in Buff here's this guy that's as big as a LB and can take a hit and is one tough sonofagun. That was new. That was the mindset of fans changing, the impact. I had a lot of family that were Bills fans and remember hearing one say "I can't remember the last time we ran the ball a million times to end a game. We were just lucky to get a win." There's a whole mindset change in fans that these QBs caused.
This is the longest ramble ever...sorry. I do think these guys changed their team's fortunes and the way fans perceived their favorite teams and so I think the high praise is just.
He played smart and made no mistakes. If he throws a pick-6 before halftime with Miami already having the lead Id bet this game turns out very different. Maybe at the very least its alot closer as MIA plays with more emotion and the Pats with less..? thought Henne played pretty good and 2 of the 3 INT's were not his fault, 1 was Marshalls fault on a bad route and the other bounced off Hartlines chest. He had 300yds and 2TD's.. Back to Brady I really dont understand the hate? Maybe has more to do with envy(Giselle) than football.
He has quickly morphed into a cliche-ridden suckup.
