What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (3 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
MattFancy said:
How low of a bar have we set for this guy that all he has to do is not go off the rails for 60 minutes or so during a speech and now he's "Presidential" 
Click to expand...
It was the best speech he's done. Why? - Didn't raise any conspiracy, didn't malign his former opponents or the opposing party, didn't attack any ally, didn't diverge from script, he had a calm tone. That was a man going in asking for a loan. That was his loan face.

To me nothing will get over 1. the news that he suggested the antisemitic wave of attacks was a ruse by the victims or 2. accusing the generals for creating and authorizing the plan in Yemen. Those two things are some of the worst things he has done as president, on a low, amoral level, and coming just before the SOTU no amount of acting out 'normalcy' is going to repair that.

- eta - Having said that, the positive response he will likely get from this will hopefully encourage more of this 'face' than the Zaphod Beeblebrox hydra we've been treated to so far.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It was the best speech he's done. Why? - Didn't raise any conspiracy, didn't malign his former opponents, the opposing party, didn't attack any ally, didn't diverge from script, he had a calm tone. That was a man going in asking for a loan. That was his loan face.

To me nothing will get over 1. the news that he suggested the antisemitic wave of attacks was a ruse by the victims or 2. accusing the generals for creating and authorizing the plan in Yemen. Those two things are some of the worst things he has done as president, on a low, amoral level, and coming just before the SOTU no amount of acting out 'normalcy' is going to repair that.

- eta - Having said that, the positive response he will likely get from this will hopefully encourage more of this 'face' than the Zaphod Beeblebrox hydra we've been treated to so far.
Click to expand...
Right.  Let's not lower the bar too far here.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
They sure represented a threat to the American people who are now dead, huh?
Click to expand...
Come on.  You've always been one of the more reasonable Trump defenders (I think that's a fair description of you, yes?).  Surely you can see the problem with this logic, right?  It's obvious scapegoating. Any population is going to produce a certain number of criminals who do terrible things.  Holding that out as a reason for a policy change is wrong and dangerous, because you can use the same logic to scapegoat and repress any population you feel like scapegoating and repressing.

In fact it's somewhat remarkable that recent immigrants from Mexico and Central America (both documented and undocumented) have maintained such low crime rates, all things considered.  Maybe part of the problem is that the previous wave of Italian, Irish and Jewish immigrants won't let them get a foothold in the massive crime organizations they created when they hit some speedbumps shortly after coming to America.

 
It was an okay speech.

He had set the bar so low for himself that people are applauding a mediocre speech.

It's not about his speech.  It's about who he is and what gets done.  If he resolves healthcare and tax reform this year - that's a big win for one year - and the deck is stacked where he should be able to do both before year end.

 
His speech was very good.   As is the norm for this type of thing he promised everything & then some.  hope he can deliver.

 
It's sounding like he's backing off on all the big noisy crappy promises he made during the campaign because of the opposition he's facing. I still don't trust that Sith Lord Bannon but it's probably a lucky thing for we progressives that Littlefingers is a giant wussy.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Come on.  You've always been one of the more reasonable Trump defenders (I think that's a fair description of you, yes?).  Surely you can see the problem with this logic, right?  It's obvious scapegoating. Any population is going to produce a certain number of criminals who do terrible things.  Holding that out as a reason for a policy change is wrong and dangerous, because you can use the same logic to scapegoat and repress any population you feel like scapegoating and repressing.

In fact it's somewhat remarkable that recent immigrants from Mexico and Central America (both documented and undocumented) have maintained such low crime rates, all things considered.  Maybe part of the problem is that the previous wave of Italian, Irish and Jewish immigrants won't let them get a foothold in the massive crime organizations they created when they hit some speedbumps shortly after coming to America.
Click to expand...
Meh...both sides bring people like these to these speeches. Of course it's stupid.

Does anyone know who the Dems had as their invited guests last night?

If you didn't, I guarantee you could guess

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Meh...both sides bring people like these to these speeches. Of course it's stupid.

Does anyone know who the Dems had as their invited guests last night?

If you didn't, I guarantee you could guess
Click to expand...
I was speaking to the idea behind it- that because some undocumented immigrants kill people we must take a hard line stance against all undocumented immigrants. It's terrible logic and a dangerous argument. I don't care about using people as political props, like you say that's standard operating procedure.

 
GoBirds said:
You struggle to keep up with alot apparently. 
Click to expand...
Yeah.  Like what else?  I notice you didn't address the point I made.  Which is your typical MO.  Hit and run.  Not an original thought in your head.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cowboysfan8 said:
Meh...both sides bring people like these to these speeches. Of course it's stupid.

Does anyone know who the Dems had as their invited guests last night?

If you didn't, I guarantee you could guess
Click to expand...
I don't think any previous President has ever brought in victims of undocumented aliens before. That was singular, and shameful. 

And the Democrats brought in Dreamers, to display an opposite, positive message, much as previous Democratic and Republican Presidents have done. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
[scooter] said:
Imagine if Obama had complained about a previous administration's deficits, then 30 seconds later called for $1 trillion in spending on more roads. He would have been ripped to shreds by Republicans.
Click to expand...
I known it was not your primary point but that's all Obama did his first term - blame the previous administration for everything. 

I did not listen to the whole speech but I never listened to a whole speech of Obama's either. As arrogant as Trump probably is, from what I heard and have read, he gave a country first speech. A lot of "we" will....Obama on the other hand always came across to me that it was more about himself....a lot of "I" will and "I" did. 

Trump is not the orator that Obama is but it was refreshing for me to hear someone that I think is country first. 

 
timschochet said:
I don't think any previous President has ever brought in victims of undocumented aliens before. That was singular, and shameful. 

And the Democrats brought in Dreamers, to display an opposite, positive message, much as previous Democratic and Republican Presidents have done. 
Click to expand...
So each side tried to present a distorted, incomplete view of a complex problem to gain political advantage.  The thing is, even with both sides presenting some view, the picture was still incredibly incomplete.

Me, I find this pandering one of the saddest legacies of Ronald Reagan who brought this technique back to the fore.

Also, concentrating chiefly, if not solely, on the criminality of a subset of a population to make policy for the entire set is, in my mind, poor policy.   It exhibits a lack of critical analysis.  It is dangerous. Sweeping negative stereotypes, even if based on some small modicum of fact, have proven destructive beyond measure throughout history. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I was speaking to the idea behind it- that because some undocumented immigrants kill people we must take a hard line stance against all undocumented immigrants. 
Click to expand...
This is where Tim and I disagree on this every time. Tim thinks Trump wants to deport every single Mexican illegal, I disagree.

When Trump introduced the lady who's husband was killed by an illegal last night he pointed out that this man had been arrested before and had been deported twice already and yet made his way back in again. I believe that he should be going after these people

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
This is where Tim and I disagree on this every time. Tim thinks Trump wants to deport every single Mexican illegal, I disagree.

When Trump introduced the lady who's husband was killed by an illegal last night he pointed out that this man had been arrested before and had been deported twice already and yet made his way back in again. I believe that he should be going after these people
Click to expand...
I think most people agree with you on this one, at least if the crime in question was a violent crime. When you said "they sure represented a threat to the American people who are now dead, huh?" the context suggested you were talking about all undocumented immigrants. If that's not the case and you're talking only about deporting violent criminals or beefing up the borders to keep them from returning, I've got no quarrel with your position.  I don't know exactly how you do it in a cost-effective manner, but that's a minor squabble.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Beef Ravioli said:
I known it was not your primary point but that's all Obama did his first term - blame the previous administration for everything. 

I did not listen to the whole speech but I never listened to a whole speech of Obama's either. As arrogant as Trump probably is, from what I heard and have read, he gave a country first speech. A lot of "we" will....Obama on the other hand always came across to me that it was more about himself....a lot of "I" will and "I" did. 

Trump is not the orator that Obama is but it was refreshing for me to hear someone that I think is country first. 
Click to expand...
Obama's catch phrase was literally "Yes WE Can" and Trump said numerous times during the campaign that only Trump can fix this and that -- nobody else. 

 
The Commish said:
I don't know how that's possible.  You're a pretty bright dude.  I'd expect you'd be able to see it was simply a change in presentation of the same ####ty message.  Hell, I did.  If I can see it, damn near anyone should be able to see it.
Click to expand...
His presentation and execution was always the problem.  He won the election with the message.  Why would he change it?

 
timschochet said:
And the Democrats brought in Dreamers, to display an opposite, positive message, much as previous Democratic and Republican Presidents have done. 
Click to expand...
Who else? LGBT's, Muslims, Americans that are signed up for Obamacare.

Shocker 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The one thing I wanted Trump to do last night was get off the campaign trail rhetoric and act like a President. Going in I thought it was impossible for him to do so.  About 10 minutes in I was wondering if he could go 70 minutes without reverting. I was surprised at how good he sounded and really wish he had been that way from day 1.  I guess is he was that way from the start he would not be president though. Covering the KC shooting right at the start helped.

They were showing clips from Obamas first address. The Republican congress did not stand too much but they clapped pretty much all the time.  Last night when they kept showing the left side of the room just sitting on their hands pouting was a little embarrassing . Although I was surprised that Bernie was clapping quite a bit one his own but he probably still hates the DNC. They are never going to like Trump but show respect for the office on a live televised address.

Al Franken looked like he had a lemon in his mouth slouched in his chair. It was funny when Trump honored the black girl who was getting her masters....Warren was looking around like "Dam..I guess we have to stand for this one"  Was quite surprised to hear Van Jones and Wolf Blitzer be so complimentary to Trump in their review of his speech.  Maybe a little healing took place.

Still not a big Trump fan but liked him much better last night.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think most people agree with you on this one, at least if the crime in question was a violent crime. When you said "they sure represented a threat to the American people who are now dead, huh?" the context suggested you were talking about all undocumented immigrants. If that's not the case and you're talking only about deporting violent criminals or beefing up the borders to keep them from returning, I've got no quarrel with your position.  I don't know exactly how you do it in a cost-effective manner, but that's a minor squabble.
Click to expand...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/front-range/aurora/60-year-prison-sentence-upheld-for-illegal-immigrant-in-ice-cream-store-crash

I had some minor involvement in this case.  I also teach a citizenship course, pro bono.  Finally, I spent a very satisfying year living and working in Mexico and have many friends from there. The issues are more multifaceted than any politician is likely to admit or even understand. Simplifying, concentrating on only one aspect is what politicians do.  It is their failing and among the reasons we righteously detest their kind. (And yes, I understand the delicious paradox of what I just wrote.)

BTW, one cannot un-see the crime scene photos where a three year old dragged his own broken body 10 feet, leaving a bodily fluid trail, before dying and then also seeing the autopsy photos.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Da Guru said:
The one thing I wanted Trump to do last night was get off the campaign trail rhetoric and act like a President. Going in I thought it was impossible for him to do so.  About 10 minutes in I was wondering if he could go 70 minutes without reverting. I was surprised at how good he sounded and really wish he had been that way from day 1.  I guess is he was that way from the start he would not be president though. Covering the KC shooting right at the start helped.

They were showing clips from Obamas first address. The Republican congress did not stand too much but they clapped pretty much all the time.  Last night when they kept showing the left side of the room just sitting on their hands pouting was a little embarrassing . Although I was surprised that Bernie was clapping quite a bit one his own but he probably still hates the DNC. They are never going to like Trump but show respect for the office on a live televised address.

Al Franken looked like he had a lemon in his mouth slouched in his chair. It was funny when Trump honored the black girl who was getting her masters....Warren was looking around like "Dam..I guess we have to stand for this one"  Was quite surprised to hear Van Jones and Wolf Blitzer be so complimentary to Trump in their review of his speech.  Maybe a little healing took place.

Still not a big Trump fan but liked him much better last night.
Click to expand...
Don't fall for it. None of it is genuine. It's all a sales job. Trump and the Republicans are not interested in building a diverse, forward thinking America.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think most people agree with you on this one, at least if the crime in question was a violent crime. When you said "they sure represented a threat to the American people who are now dead, huh?" the context suggested you were talking about all undocumented immigrants. If that's not the case and you're talking only about deporting violent criminals or beefing up the borders to keep them from returning, I've got no quarrel with your position.  I don't know exactly how you do it in a cost-effective manner, but that's a minor squabble.
Click to expand...
Why just violent criminals?  The woman in Arizona was deported because she was convicted of identity theft.  That's a serious crime.  Breaking into homes isn't a violent crime, but I certainly don't want to keep thieves in the country if we don't have to.  Drunk drivers?  That's an accident looking for a place to happen.

Why do we need to go out of our way to protect people committing serious crimes from deportation?

 
GROOT said:
Which is why people don't like politicians
Click to expand...
Obama was the king of Teleprompters.  In the hyper-partisan news and social media environment we live in talking off the cuff is madness.  It's unfortunate, but I don't think it's going to change.

Like Obama, I expect Trump will move to more scripted speeches.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jonessed said:
Obama was the king of Teleprompters.  In the hyper-partisan news and social media environment we live in talking off the cuff is madness.  It's unfortunate, but I don't think it's going to change.
Click to expand...
Which why Trump was appealing. He will stick his face into any camera and doesn't shy away. He doesn't consult with 10 advisers to formulate a response. 

 
GROOT said:
Which why Trump was appealing. He will stick his face into any camera and doesn't shy away. He doesn't consult with 10 advisers to formulate a response. 
Click to expand...
Can you see why that may seem at times like an unappealing trait for the leader of the free world? I feel like there's a happy medium between Clinton and Trump somewhere that we're missing.  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Is gitmo closed?  Trump is a conman, but some promises were hyperbole and others he is trying to keep one way or another. He is who he told us basically. 
Click to expand...
When trying to decide which were promises and which were hyperbole, does it matter if he doubled down on statements?  I mean, during the campaign, he said he could stop the violence in Chicago in one week, and in his inaugural address, he said "It stops right here, right now", but I haven't seen what he did to stop it yet.  So, I guess we have to conclude that the more often he says something, the more likely it is to be mere hyperbole?

 
whoknew said:
Part of the benefit that Trump gets from setting the bar so low by his previous behavior is that if he just comes out -  and doesn't act like a raving lunatic - everyone thinks he gave the Gettysburg Address Part 2.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's why the speech means nothing. It's all about what he plans to do and attempts to do. You can't have a month of unhinged behavior completely offset by one night where he sounded somewhat human.

 
roadkill1292 said:
Lol at Trump being a "tough guy" who doesn't "back down." He's a giant orange coward.
Click to expand...
That's nowhere near as good as Trump puts country first and Obama didn't. 

Not gonna complain, though. We need to find ways to keep laughing during all this turmoil and nonsense.

 
GroveDiesel said:
If the end result of Trump's Presidency is that he "didn't really accomplish anything" I would take that as a win for America considering the circumstances.
Click to expand...
You got that right. I'm thrilled we're a month in and no irreparable damage has been done. That's a huge victory for the country.

 
This thread was actually enjoyable for a short period of time last night...I would prefer the non-Trump supporters to just sit down and be quiet much like the Dems were last night. Support your cause through silence...

 
GROOT said:
Which why Trump was appealing. He will stick his face into any camera and doesn't shy away. He doesn't consult with 10 advisers to formulate a response. 
Click to expand...
Ummm, he probably should.  Rather than consulting with only himself and/or Bannon.

 
jonessed said:
His presentation and execution was always the problem.  He won the election with the message.  Why would he change it?
Click to expand...
The only reason he'd change it is if he cared about the future.  He got the benefit of the doubt coming into this election (from A LOT of people) that he wouldn't be as big a screw up as Hillary.  Well.....here we are.  The scab has been pulled off and now we can put things in the "know" category for him.  So far, that's not a good thing.  I'm not sure there's a significant number of voters who are of the "man, I had questions about the guy, but he's better than I thought he was going to be" variety.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

knowledge dropper
  • Locked
The Biden Years - Every day something more shocking than the last!!
36 37 38
Replies
2K
Views
50K
Joe Bryant
Joe Bryant
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
FWIW The NSA IS READING/SAVING ur emails/calls/texts etc
2
Replies
62
Views
3K
kevzilla
kevzilla

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Top