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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (1 Viewer)

Sinn Fein said:
As people sit around and consider impeachment - don't forget that the obstruction charges are only 10+ charges that could be brought.  In addition, there are felony Campaign Finance law violations to consider.  There are emoluments violations to consider.  When the House gets the financials from the banks there are almost certainly financial/tax fraud claims relating to asset valuations.  You also will likely have general obstruction claims related to Trump ordering his administration to ignore congressional subpoenas.  
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That's why waiting for the courts to turn those docs over is a good idea.  Start Impeachment once you know exactly what all you've got to build a case.

 
So Trump denies Russia interfered in the election. Most people agree this happened. The President is to this day refusing to acknowledge interference and with that stance is refusing to defend our nation against our enemies. 

McConnell refuses to pass any legislation. 

They are laying us bare to Russia the next time around in plain sight of everyone.  

It's a traitourous dereliction of duty. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
You're accusing the owner of the site of being a coward for posting his opinion?  
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Show me the last time he ventured over here into the PSF. He's been persona-non-grata ever since his Seth Rich/Pizzagate crap hit the fan of credibility. For good reason.

 
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The leading editorial in Real Clear Politics is by Alan Dershowitz. The title is “Shame on Robert Mueller.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/445983-dershowitz-shame-on-robert-mueller-for-exceeding-his-role

Apparently Dershowitz can’t handle the fact that Mueller effectively refuted two years of his (Dershowitz’s) ridiculous arguments on behalf of the President in the space of a few minutes. Rather than break down the substance of what Mueller said (and what Dershowitz got wrong) Dershowitz now argues that Mueller exceeded his role and offered personal opinions (really?) 

This same point, more or less, has been repeated by most conservative pundits I have listened to since yesterday. It’s an all out attempt to weaken Mueller’s credibility. But it’s especially embarrassing coming from this guy, since Dershowitz was one of those who praised Mueller all along, said he would accept his findings, and after the Barr memo wrote an editorial which argued that “Barr trusts what Mueller wrote; why can’t everyone else?” 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Eh, he did 2-3 points worse than Romney. 
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lol. I don’t think that takes away from my point at all. Try phrasing it this way: “ The guy that grabs them by the ##### was only a couple points worse than Romney”. Are you banking on the Dem nominee being much more like Barak than Hillary?

 
tonydead said:
lol. I don’t think that takes away from my point at all. Try phrasing it this way: “ The guy that grabs them by the ##### was only a couple points worse than Romney”. Are you banking on the Dem nominee being much more like Barak than Hillary?
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Well it's May 2019 so I don't think anyone should bank on anything, but winning with that kind of strategy yeah does require lower turnout by some key parts of the base. So yes more or less it depends on who's running against him more than the candidate Trump himself.

 
Alan Dershowitz may be my biggest disappointment of the Trump era. For years, while the rest of my family and friends dismissed him as just another publicity hound (particularly during the OJ case) I enjoyed reading him. I thought he was a thoughtful guy and found his books on American justice very illuminating. I disagreed with him quite a bit even then, but with one blaring exception I regarded him as a guy with integrity. That blaring exception was the subject of Israel. Dershowitz’s reaction to any criticism of Israel, no matter how valid, was so kneejerk, so quick to yell anti-semitism at every opportunity, that it was an embarrassing caricature. If I had to guess, it’s this same blind loyalty to Israel no matter what that is at the root of Dershowitz’s otherwise inexplicable defense of Trump over the last few years, in which he turns the law and his previous treatment of it on its head- that and the fact that I was wrong all along: he really is and has always been a publicity hound. 

 
timschochet said:
Alan Dershowitz may be my biggest disappointment of the Trump era. For years, while the rest of my family and friends dismissed him as just another publicity hound (particularly during the OJ case) I enjoyed reading him. I thought he was a thoughtful guy and found his books on American justice very illuminating. I disagreed with him quite a bit even then, but with one blaring exception I regarded him as a guy with integrity. That blaring exception was the subject of Israel. Dershowitz’s reaction to any criticism of Israel, no matter how valid, was so kneejerk, so quick to yell anti-semitism at every opportunity, that it was an embarrassing caricature. If I had to guess, it’s this same blind loyalty to Israel no matter what that is at the root of Dershowitz’s otherwise inexplicable defense of Trump over the last few years, in which he turns the law and his previous treatment of it on its head- that and the fact that I was wrong all along: he really is and has always been a publicity hound. 
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That or they got some good dirt on him banging minors with Epstein. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Ask Joe or David that question.  I don't think David is a coward by any means and it's quite rude to call him one.
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There's no need to ask anyone. I don't even use his rankings (beginning of year, weekly) any more because he's so far out there in the stratosphere of buying into outlandish, easily disproved, conspiracy theories that I cannot in good faith trust those anymore. In addition, FBG doesn't bother to check their accuracy after the season in any given year, or over time, so there's no reason to.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
There's no need to ask anyone. I don't even use his rankings (beginning of year, weekly) any more because he's so far out there in the stratosphere of buying into outlandish, easily disproved, conspiracy theories that I cannot in good faith trust those anymore. In addition, FBG doesn't bother to check their accuracy after the season in any given year, or over time, so there's no reason to.
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So you come here to act belligerent on their forums and brag about not using their services?   Odd but okay

 
sho nuff said:
What specifically should Mueller be jailed for?  In what way is he a criminal or traitor?

What evidence is there that he made a deal with democrats to lie?

Why would he answer things about Hillary that had nothing to do with his work?  And why would he be scared of that?

What damage has he done to the constitution or bill or rights?
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Bump for @HellToupee

I await you actually answering these. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
So you come here to act belligerent on their forums and brag about not using their services?   Odd but okay
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I use a ton of their services. I will just never use Dodds rankings again. Joe doesn't do rankings. There are however many contributors whose rankings I do use. Exclusively FBG contributers.

 
timschochet said:
Alan Dershowitz may be my biggest disappointment of the Trump era. For years, while the rest of my family and friends dismissed him as just another publicity hound (particularly during the OJ case) I enjoyed reading him. I thought he was a thoughtful guy and found his books on American justice very illuminating. I disagreed with him quite a bit even then, but with one blaring exception I regarded him as a guy with integrity. That blaring exception was the subject of Israel. Dershowitz’s reaction to any criticism of Israel, no matter how valid, was so kneejerk, so quick to yell anti-semitism at every opportunity, that it was an embarrassing caricature. If I had to guess, it’s this same blind loyalty to Israel no matter what that is at the root of Dershowitz’s otherwise inexplicable defense of Trump over the last few years, in which he turns the law and his previous treatment of it on its head- that and the fact that I was wrong all along: he really is and has always been a publicity hound. 
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The Hannity "expert" panel last night discussing the Mueller presser included Sara Carter, John Solomon, Gregg Jarrett, and Dershowitz. Dershowitz was quite adamant about his old horse that Mueller was not legally appointed - something that just lost for like maybe the 10th time just a couple days before in the DC Circuit. Same old line, he hasn't changed much in terms of his theories.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Here’s a fact: if Trump hadn’t hired Flynn as NSA and if he hadn’t fired Comey, there is no Special Counsel and a lot of this would have been avoided. Not all of it but a good deal of it.
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I wonder how big a role it played that Obama specifically warned him not to hire Flynn

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
"...I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

- POTUSDJT
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I dont post over here anymore because i got several time outs.....

I will say this.....the checks and balances are broken and i hope when trump is over....hopefully in 2020....that this can never happen again

As someone who repsected and often voted gop in my lifetime......never again

 
msommer said:
I wonder how big a role it played that Obama specifically warned him not to hire Flynn
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DJT has explicitly questioned why no one warned him about Flynn. I don't think Obama played a role at all, especially if he withheld info about Flynn hoping that the lack of info would sink DJT.

 
msommer said:
I wonder how big a role it played that Obama specifically warned him not to hire Flynn
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I don't know, that part of the report is weird. Hicks, Bannon and Preibus all talked about how Trump soured on Flynn early but hired him anyway and then proceeded to protect him even as he was angry about what he had done. Nonetheless Flynn said he had told Trump about what he was doing but then couldn't specifically prove it. Just that piece shows what a complex, bizarre scene it is for those working around Trump and the challenges that the OSC faced in investigating him. - Did the fact that Obama had warned him, and he didn't want to admit that, play a role? Yeah, maybe.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Rove! said:
If you think obstruction occurred then you should be able to state a statute, but I am pretty sure that you can't.  
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Just to echo a point Sinn makes above, there are 82 references to Title 18 of the US Code in the Mueller report. - eta - 51 are in Vol. 2, secs. 1503, 1505, 1512, 1515, 1519 and others are mentioned.
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Well, besides those citations...duh

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Show me the last time he ventured over here into the PSF. He's been persona-non-grata ever since his Seth Rich/Pizzagate crap hit the fan of credibility. For good reason.
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Last winter (beg 2018 IIRC, after the pizzagate debacle) he promised the Big Reveal TM in time to demolish the democrats in the mid terms. And if there was no Big Reveal TM he would acknowledge that Trump wasn't who he thought he was (the person to upend the denocratic pedophile ring). 

Since then it has been drive by's only

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Ask Joe or David that question.  I don't think David is a coward by any means and it's quite rude to call him one.
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Not really. He came and smugly posted extremely inflammatory and errant things then, when intellectually challenged to defend his claims and positions, simply didn’t. Now, we may see a “drive by” here and there like the one quoted. I think characterizing David’s latest posting style in the PF as cowardly is fair. 

It’s akin to somebody running into the shark pool and claiming that zeke Elliott will be out for the year because he performed fellatio on a pig and peta is after him and have a plan to get him suspended. People rightly ask for any semblance of rational, objective source material yet none is given other than some random sly comments a few months later when kaepernick is spotted wearing pig socks.  

Eta: I still like and use David’s rankings every year. He wins me championships. He’s also a nice guy. 

 
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msommer said:
Last winter (beg 2018 IIRC, after the pizzagate debacle) he promised the Big Reveal TM in time to demolish the democrats in the mid terms. And if there was no Big Reveal TM he would acknowledge that Trump wasn't who he thought he was (the person to upend the denocratic pedophile ring). 

Since then it has been drive by's only
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Careful, someone may report you. Got myself a warning for claiming he was a coward.

Zow said:
Not really. He came and smugly posted extremely inflammatory and errant things then, when intellectually challenged to defend his claims and positions, simply didn’t. Now, we may see a “drive by” here and there like the one quoted. I think characterizing David’s lasting posting style as cowardly is fair. 

It’s akin to somebody running into the shark pool and claiming that zeke Elliott will be out for the year because he performed fellatio on a pig and peta is after him and have a plan to get him suspended. People rightly ask for any semblance of rational, objective source material yet none is given other than some random sly comments a few months later when kaepernick is spotted wearing pig socks.  

Eta: I still like and use David’s rankings every year. He wins me championships. 
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Oh no, somebody else agrees with me (except for the rankings part....) Here comes the warning.....

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Show me the last time he ventured over here into the PSF. He's been persona-non-grata ever since his Seth Rich/Pizzagate crap hit the fan of credibility. For good reason.
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It's not the reason you think it is.

Ruffrodys05 said:
Careful, someone may report you. Got myself a warning for claiming he was a coward.

Oh no, somebody else agrees with me (except for the rankings part....) Here comes the warning.....
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:popcorn: for the temper tantrum.  

 
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

Robert Mueller came to the Oval Office (along with other potential candidates) seeking to be named the Director of the FBI. He had already been in that position for 12 years, I told him NO. The next day he was named Special Counsel - A total Conflict of Interest. NICE!

Sounds just like an innocent guy that was completely exonerated by the SC report.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
There's no need to ask anyone. I don't even use his rankings (beginning of year, weekly) any more because he's so far out there in the stratosphere of buying into outlandish, easily disproved, conspiracy theories that I cannot in good faith trust those anymore. In addition, FBG doesn't bother to check their accuracy after the season in any given year, or over time, so there's no reason to.
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This just makes zero since to me. Just because the guy has different political views then you you can’t use advice he provides in his field of expertise and on the site/company he helped build?  That doesn’t feel well thought out in my opinion.  

 
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