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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (2 Viewers)

Mr. Ham said:
Theoretically, if government were to lose all or part of the case, how strongly might that play in an appeal?
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It's just the deep state giving itself an extra bullet in case the honest, all American jury doesn't find him guilty.

 
Henry Ford said:
That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a judge say.  Which means he's done two of the dumbest things I've ever seen a judge do in two days.
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Man I'm glad to hear you say that.  I read the story and was thinking WTF, how is that fair?!  Telling the prosecutors how to try the case over and over seemed bad enough.

Have thought since the pre-trial stories that this guy was full of himself and now it sounds like he's full of himself and read too many of his press clippings. 

Out of curiosity... how much trouble would you be in with an old-school hair-trigger look-at-me judge if you sat down and suggested he could go ahead and prosecute the case since he seems inclined to do it in any event?  Is that disbarrment/jail-time/mistrial stuff?  Or just finger-wagging and a black mark on your permanent record?

 
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bananafish said:
This is exceedingly rare, no?

(Please keep in mind I learned everything I know from watching CourtTV R.I.P.)
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I think hung juries, which can be retried, are more commonly retried.  I'd say about 7%-9% of jury trials are either mistrials or hung juries.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Man I'm glad to hear you say that.  I read the story and was thinking WTF, how is that fair?!  Telling the prosecutors how to try the case over and over seemed bad enough.

Have thought since the pre-trial stories that this guy was full of himself and now it sounds like he's full of himself and read too many of his press clippings. 

Out of curiosity... how much trouble would you be in with an old-school hair-trigger look-at-me judge if you sat down and suggested he could go ahead and prosecute the case since he seems inclined to do it in any event?  Is that disbarrment/jail-time/mistrial stuff?  Or just finger-wagging and a black mark on your permanent record?
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That’s jail for a day and probably some kind of discipline, probably not disbarment. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
from the WaPo article above:

Miller’s lawyer Paul Kamenar said after the hearing that Miller was “held in contempt, which we asked him to be in order for us to appeal the judge’s decision to the court of appeals.”

Howell stayed her order while Miller’s legal team appeals the judge’s decision.

Miller lost a court battle earlier this month to quash a subpoena, after Howell issued a 93-page opinionsaying Miller must testify before the grand jury.

Kamenar said he believes Miller’s challenge could ultimately rise to the Supreme Court.
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Well then this is going to be a race before Kavanaugh gets confirmed.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Out of curiosity... how much trouble would you be in with an old-school hair-trigger look-at-me judge if you sat down and suggested he could go ahead and prosecute the case since he seems inclined to do it in any event?  Is that disbarrment/jail-time/mistrial stuff?  Or just finger-wagging and a black mark on your permanent record?
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There's heroes, and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.

 
bananafish said:
I had a crush on Savannah Guthrie back in the day. They had a couple good looking women who were also smart which was a big turn-on.

That channel was so interesting/informative and I can only assume cheap to produce that it's both a shame and a wonder that it's gone. They replaced real-life drama with "reality" TV.

Anyways, back to Manfort. His hair is kind of shiny :shrug:
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Ouch.....let’s set the br a little higher.  :unsure:

 
Bucky86 said:
NEW--> Live on @CNN @RepTomGarrett told me that he was told in a classified FBI briefing that Russian actors were directly involved in sowing discord Charlottesville. First time he has revealed that info publicly.
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Who is this representative and how did he acquire this information? 

 
Henry Ford said:
When your dossier says that he hired four prostitutes to build a model of the Hubble telescope out of Popsicle sticks, his google searches from the day before include "how to make complex objects out of popsicle sticks" and pictures of the Hubble telescope and he withdrew $2,000.00 in cash at 4:00 p.m. before being caught on traffic cameras driving to the red light district, then coming back with four women wearing skimpy dresses and excessive makeup and then returning them the next morning wearing the same clothes and some guy says "oh, come on, Noonan, that doesn't prove anything about Sho Nuff.  Bring me some real evidence and stop believing in conspiracy theories you loser" you have my permission to punch that person in the genitals.
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If I ever hire four prostitutes, 100% that one is designated strictly to genital punching. Logistically, what else could the 4th one do?

 
Scott Stedman‏ @ScottMStedman

Breaking: An energy investment group claims $350M (!) capital commitment from Carter Page's Global Energy Capital after 2016 election. This calls into question his Congressional testimony when he told @RepSwalwell that he had no income in 2016 and 2017:

 
Bucky86 said:
:mellow:

Are we sure no votes were actually changed?

https://twitter.com/votingvillagedc/status/1028103170864697345?s=21
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So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.

 
moleculo said:
So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.
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I concur.  I believe you are on the money here.  Makes me wonder how long this has been going on, if true, of course.

 
moleculo said:
So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.
Click to expand...
Even if we had incontrovertible truth that this were the case, as in total complete truth that the Russians changed votes in ley districts and literally threw the election... it's very clear by Trump supports on this board and elsewhere that they would be the ones looking to wage war with anyone trying to preserve the sanctity of our elections. Theyd be on the streets aligning just like they do today with Russian interests, looking to blame the IC doin anything, while collabaprting with and enabling a foreign nation to potential and literally destroy the fabric of our country.

Russia has so played us here, regardless what comes out on this specific issue of potential vote changing... but the fact that the GOP and their supporters are doing what they can to PREVENT us from bolstering our elections as we should speaks so clearly as to what they stand for (and it's NOT America, certainly not democracy).

 
This perjury trap thing doesn’t make sense on the face of it. Rudy says that Trump denies and will deny that he said anything about Flynn to Comey. Ok, if the FBI doesn’t believe him that’s not a perjury problem, that’s an obstruction problem and maybe a ‘collusion’ problem. Specifically Trump is most likely facing the  prospect of being an unindicted coconspirator.

 
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cockroach said:
There was an HBO documentary in the early 2000s called "Hacking Democracy" that looked into how easy it was to gack the Diebolt voting machines.   The same ones used in Florida that got W elected.  
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They had a segment on a similar issue in an incident in a Parish down here as well. True story Btw.

 
moleculo said:
So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with you that we’re gonna find out this was even worse than anyone thought. Just the way information has trickled in starting with the Russian may have tried to get into the election systems in a few states to now that they actually got into most of the election systems including voter registrations.

If votes were changed, it makes sense that it’s a highly guarded secret. It has the potential to delegitimize not only the presidential election but every other election that year and any that have followed. Something like that can’t be made public until all the details are known and co-conspirators identified.

Definitely falls into a conspiracy theory but  one that could have legs.

 
moleculo said:
So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.
Click to expand...
Like UFOs and Democrat billionaire pedophiles?

 
I saw this referenced in the thread title, but not see a post/link about it

David Mack✔@davidmackau

How is Rudy so bad at this? This morning he denied to @jaketapper ever telling @GStephanopoulos that Trump told Comey to give Flynn "a break." Well, here is the footage showing him saying just that.

Link

 
cosjobs said:
Like UFOs and Democrat billionaire pedophiles?
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Pretty much.  Difference is I'm not going to claim I know anything.  I have no proof, I don't know anyone with proof. It's nothing more than a suspicion and I completely understand anyone who disagrees, especially on the basis that there is no proof beyond an anonymous idiot behind a keyboard (curious if I can get a TO for calling @moleculo an idiot)

 
cosjobs said:
I saw this referenced in the thread title, but not see a post/link about it

David Mack✔@davidmackau

How is Rudy so bad at this? This morning he denied to @jaketapper ever telling @GStephanopoulos that Trump told Comey to give Flynn "a break." Well, here is the footage showing him saying just that.

Link
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They don’t show it in this clip but Rudy went on to tell Tapper he was really just saying what Comey was saying.

 
This piece by David Von Drehle in the Washington Post talks about the Manafort trial reminding him of mob trials of the past and notes Trump's own "associations." I don't think this has ever gotten the attention it deserves:
 

As many journalists have documented — the late Wayne Barrett and decorated investigator David Cay Johnston most deeply — Trump’s trail was blazed through one business after another notorious for corruption by organized crime.

New York construction, for starters. In 1988, Vincent “the Fish” Cafaro of the Genovese crime family testified before a U.S. Senate committee concerning the Mafia’s control of building projects in New York. Construction unions and concrete contractors were deeply dirty, Cafaro confirmed, and four of the city’s five crime families worked cooperatively to keep it that way.

This would not have been news to Trump, whose early political mentor and personal lawyer was Roy Cohn, consigliere to such dons as Fat Tony Salerno and Carmine Galante. After Cohn guided the brash young developer through the gutters of city politics to win permits for Trump Plaza and Trump Tower, it happened that Trump elected to build primarily with concrete rather than steel. He bought the mud at inflated prices from S&A Concrete, co-owned by Cohn’s client Salerno and Paul Castellano, boss of the Gambino family.

Coincidence? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Trump moved next into the New Jersey casino business, which was every bit as clean as it sounds. State officials merely shrugged when Trump bought a piece of land from associates of Philadelphia mob boss “Little Nicky” Scarfo for roughly $500,000 more than it was worth. However, this and other ties persuaded police in Australia to block Trump’s bidto build a casino in Sydney in 1987, citing Trump’s “Mafia connections.”

His gambling interests led him into the world of boxing promotion, where Trump became chums with fight impresario Don King, a former Cleveland numbers runner. (Trump once told me that he owes his remarkable coiffure to King, who advised the future president, from personal experience, that outlandish hair is great PR.) King hasn’t been convicted since the 1960s, when he did time for stomping a man to death. But investigators at the FBI and U.S. Senate concluded that his Mafia ties ran from Cleveland to New York, Las Vegas to Atlantic City. Mobsters “were looking to launder illicit cash,” wrote one sleuth. “Boxing, of all the sports, was perhaps the most accommodating laundromat, what with its international subculture of unsavory characters who play by their own rules.”

But an even more accommodating laundromat came along: luxury real estate — yet another mob-adjacent field in which the Trump name has loomed large. Because buyers of high-end properties often hide their identities, it’s impossible to say how many Russian Mafia oligarchs own Trump-branded condos. Donald Trump Jr. gave a hint in 2008: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.”

For instance: In 2013, federal prosecutors indictedRussian mob boss Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov and 33 others on charges related to a gambling ring operating from two Trump Tower condos that allegedly laundered more than $100 million. A few months later, the same Mr. Tokhtakhounov, a fugitive from U.S. justice, was seen on the red carpet at Trump’s Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

Obviously, not everyone in these industries is corrupt, and if Donald Trump spent four decades rubbing elbows with wiseguys and never got dirty, he has nothing to worry about from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. 

But does he look unworried to you?

 
moleculo said:
So I hate to get all conspiracy theory here, but it's been my long standing belief that votes WERE tampered with, and the IC knew.  If they came out and said that in the aftermath of the election, there would have been rioting in the streets ( I mean more rioting, I guess).

This is the type of thing that can never be officially acknowledged, bit eventually bits and pieces of the truth would make their way out.
Click to expand...
This is my belief as well. 

 
cosjobs said:
This piece by David Von Drehle in the Washington Post talks about the Manafort trial reminding him of mob trials of the past and notes Trump's own "associations." I don't think this has ever gotten the attention it deserves:
 

As many journalists have documented — the late Wayne Barrett and decorated investigator David Cay Johnston most deeply — Trump’s trail was blazed through one business after another notorious for corruption by organized crime.

New York construction, for starters. In 1988, Vincent “the Fish” Cafaro of the Genovese crime family testified before a U.S. Senate committee concerning the Mafia’s control of building projects in New York. Construction unions and concrete contractors were deeply dirty, Cafaro confirmed, and four of the city’s five crime families worked cooperatively to keep it that way.

This would not have been news to Trump, whose early political mentor and personal lawyer was Roy Cohn, consigliere to such dons as Fat Tony Salerno and Carmine Galante. After Cohn guided the brash young developer through the gutters of city politics to win permits for Trump Plaza and Trump Tower, it happened that Trump elected to build primarily with concrete rather than steel. He bought the mud at inflated prices from S&A Concrete, co-owned by Cohn’s client Salerno and Paul Castellano, boss of the Gambino family.

Coincidence? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Trump moved next into the New Jersey casino business, which was every bit as clean as it sounds. State officials merely shrugged when Trump bought a piece of land from associates of Philadelphia mob boss “Little Nicky” Scarfo for roughly $500,000 more than it was worth. However, this and other ties persuaded police in Australia to block Trump’s bidto build a casino in Sydney in 1987, citing Trump’s “Mafia connections.”

His gambling interests led him into the world of boxing promotion, where Trump became chums with fight impresario Don King, a former Cleveland numbers runner. (Trump once told me that he owes his remarkable coiffure to King, who advised the future president, from personal experience, that outlandish hair is great PR.) King hasn’t been convicted since the 1960s, when he did time for stomping a man to death. But investigators at the FBI and U.S. Senate concluded that his Mafia ties ran from Cleveland to New York, Las Vegas to Atlantic City. Mobsters “were looking to launder illicit cash,” wrote one sleuth. “Boxing, of all the sports, was perhaps the most accommodating laundromat, what with its international subculture of unsavory characters who play by their own rules.”

But an even more accommodating laundromat came along: luxury real estate — yet another mob-adjacent field in which the Trump name has loomed large. Because buyers of high-end properties often hide their identities, it’s impossible to say how many Russian Mafia oligarchs own Trump-branded condos. Donald Trump Jr. gave a hint in 2008: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.”

For instance: In 2013, federal prosecutors indictedRussian mob boss Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov and 33 others on charges related to a gambling ring operating from two Trump Tower condos that allegedly laundered more than $100 million. A few months later, the same Mr. Tokhtakhounov, a fugitive from U.S. justice, was seen on the red carpet at Trump’s Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

Obviously, not everyone in these industries is corrupt, and if Donald Trump spent four decades rubbing elbows with wiseguys and never got dirty, he has nothing to worry about from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. 

But does he look unworried to you?
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Trump has surrounded himself by people that have shady deals with Russian banks, launder money and lie to investigators.   He's either the single worst judge of character in the history of business and politics or he's involved in exactly the same things they are.    Which explanation makes more sense?

 
-fish- said:
Trump has surrounded himself by people that have shady deals with Russian banks, launder money and lie to investigators.   He's either the single worst judge of character in the history of business and politics or he's involved in exactly the same things they are.    Which explanation makes more sense?
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C. All of the above

eta: msommer faster than me

 
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Rove! said:
If that were the case, wouldn’t that make Obama the ####tiest President of all time?  Wouldn’t that make Clapper and Brennan and Coney etc absolute failures?
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You say that like I give a crap how Obama is viewed historically.

To answer your question, yes, if true, and he knew things were rigged and allowed McConnell to bully h around, it speaks very poorly of him.

 
-fish- said:
Trump has surrounded himself by people that have shady deals with Russian banks, launder money and lie to investigators.   He's either the single worst judge of character in the history of business and politics or he's involved in exactly the same things they are.    Which explanation makes more sense?
Click to expand...
Just be thankful he isn't crooked.

 
I get what you guys are saying. I really do. We know the Ruskies were interested in breaching voting systems. We (I guess from these kids but I'm not smart enough to know on my own) know that it's pretty easy to change votes. So we either have to believe that the KGB wasn't interested in changing votes or that they couldn't figure it out. I can't imagine that they wouldn't want to change votes if they could, and I can't imagine they didn't have better people on it than these kids. There's really no reason the polling of the 2016 American election and Brexit was so badly wrong. It logically makes sense that foul play was involved.

But there's no ####### way that the current POTUS doesn't know that votes were changed if that's what the CIA/NSA/FBI etc. believe, and there's no way he wouldn't tweet something denying it ever happened if he knew. He just can't keep his ####### mouth shut about anything that affects his legitimacy. It's the problem of electing a fat guy with a tiny ####. 

But if it did happen, this is a secret I'm happy with the government keeping from the people. If they changed votes, we really have to go whoop somebody's ###. I'm not interested in having some 20 year old kid from Sheboygan go kill some 20 year old kid from St. Petersburg when neither one had a damn thing to do with any of this. I remember the good old days when the CIA would just poison Putin's vodka.

 
It is going to be so much fun to watch the talking heads explode when Trump is exonerated of all charges. 

WWG1WGA

 
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