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The ***OFFICIAL*** Lorenzo Taliaferro Thread (1 Viewer)

SameSongNDance said:
The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
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I wouldn't question your assessment of Talaiferro, although I think you're a little optimistic, but I'm seriously skeptical of your stance regarding Pierce. We heard the entire pre-season from coaches and pundits about Pierce's familiarity with zone blocking in college, how well he will fit into Kubiak's system, and yada yada yada. Now you're trying to say he doesn't have the vision, based on two games?

I don't know, man, but it seems fishy.

 
Pierce has never been good. He was an ok back up that had a few decent games.

Not sure how anyone came into the year thinking Pierce was the man.

That said, I'm a skeptical LoTa owner. More than likely, LoTa earned some touches and the whole backfield is worthless for the next 4 weeks, at which point I drop LoTa, only to have him become a starter right at the moment someone else picks him up.

Flavor of the week IMO. Next week we'll be talking about the resurgence of Toby Gerhart, or how good Eddie Lacy is.

 
cloppbeast said:
SameSongNDance said:
The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
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I wouldn't question your assessment of Talaiferro, although I think you're a little optimistic, but I'm seriously skeptical of your stance regarding Pierce. We heard the entire pre-season from coaches and pundits about Pierce's familiarity with zone blocking in college, how well he will fit into Kubiak's system, and yada yada yada. Now you're trying to say he doesn't have the vision, based on two games?

I don't know, man, but it seems fishy.
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I don't think this lack of vision thing is new. Here's an article from Feburary of this year trying to tackle the issue as it relates to 2013.

But the biggest knock on Pierce at this point is his vision. He needs a lot of work following his blocks in the ZBS and almost all second-level blocks in any scheme. I’m hopeful that this is something coaching and repetition will correct. Let’s take a look at this particular weakness:
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The thing with Pierce vs. Taliaferro that I find interesting is Tali looked exactly how I wanted Pierce to look coming into this year. Pierce may be a bit faster, quicker but it's only a marginal advantage, Neither possess elite long speed, burst or agility. I don't think Pierce has an edge in pass pro or pass catching either. Where I think Tali does have an edge is in power and vision which is obviously so important in the zbs. For some reason, Pierce just doesn't look all that powerful when running. I thought it would be possible for him to mask his deficiencies in with some yards after contact ability but he's definitely going down too easily. I don't know. I just really don't like what I see with him. At the very least, I can see Tali stealing GL looks moving forward (if they try to run a sneak with Flacco again I'll laugh). At the worst, I see him supplanting Pierce entirely.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Fat Nick said:
MAC_32 said:
Fat Nick said:
MAC_32 said:
If Pierce continues to get work over him whoever makes that decision should be canned.
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Why? Because he had one bad game this year? He stumbled out of the gate. His whole team had a bad week 1, and Cincy has one of the better run defenses in the league. He ran 22 times for 96 yards and a 4.4 YPC in the second game. That's a solid effort by anybody's standards.
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Taliaferro played better last week than Pierce has since 2012.
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Based on what metric? You can't just go making random statements without any factual basis.
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The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
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:goodposting:
 
cloppbeast said:
SameSongNDance said:
The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
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I wouldn't question your assessment of Talaiferro, although I think you're a little optimistic, but I'm seriously skeptical of your stance regarding Pierce. We heard the entire pre-season from coaches and pundits about Pierce's familiarity with zone blocking in college, how well he will fit into Kubiak's system, and yada yada yada. Now you're trying to say he doesn't have the vision, based on two games?

I don't know, man, but it seems fishy.
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i won't speak for him but I never bought into that August spin. Show me, don't tell me. Pierce hasn't shown anything since his rookie year, and even that wasn't too great.
 
SameSongNDance said:
cloppbeast said:
SameSongNDance said:
The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't question your assessment of Talaiferro, although I think you're a little optimistic, but I'm seriously skeptical of your stance regarding Pierce. We heard the entire pre-season from coaches and pundits about Pierce's familiarity with zone blocking in college, how well he will fit into Kubiak's system, and yada yada yada. Now you're trying to say he doesn't have the vision, based on two games?

I don't know, man, but it seems fishy.
Click to expand...
I don't think this lack of vision thing is new. Here's an article from Feburary of this year trying to tackle the issue as it relates to 2013.
Click to expand...
Just because the dude doesn't make the right read every time, doesn't make him Darren McFadden. Pierce may not have the vision of Arian Foster or Terrell Davis, but that doesn't mean he's terrible. Nobody ever labeled him a supreme talent, anyhow. But I still refuse to believe he has terrible vision considering he came from a zone blocking back-ground at Temple. His college work in the scheme warranted a 3rd round selection, and most of his rookie scouting reports list his vision as one of his strengths.

Again, I'm not saying he has great vision, but I find your contention that he's terrible very suspicious. He's at least average in this regard. I admit you could be right about Pierce in general though, as I wouldn't call myself a huge believer. I laughed at the proposition that Ray Rice would ride shot-gun while Pierce drove the car. Still, it's a little soon to call him a bum and sell him for scrap metal. Harbs loves the guy, so he at least he has that going for him.

 
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Straight from the OC's mouth - he sees Taliaferro as a "three-down back" and Pierce not so much:

__________________________________________

As a former head coach, does that make a team tougher to prepare for when you’re not sure who’s going to get the ball when you have three guys of different size? (Jeff Zrebiec) “Yes, and they’re all a little different – you’re right. Lorenzo [Taliaferro] and Bernard [Pierce] are a little bit the same as far as size and how they do things. Lorenzo and Justin [Forsett] are three-down players that play in pass protection situations, nickel situations and those types of things. That’s where Bernard needs to keep coming as a player, in my opinion, but he’s working at it and doing that. We’re going to do what we do, but hopefully we’re doing what each back does best when they’re in there.”

__________________________________________

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Transcripts-Thursday-Media-Availability-Week-4--Panthers/6b13d577-d1cc-4a63-a381-680f44e5bfea

In other words, Kubiak sees Taliaferro as better in pass protection.

 
bumpman said:
Straight from the OC's mouth - he sees Taliaferro as a "three-down back" and Pierce not so much:

__________________________________________

As a former head coach, does that make a team tougher to prepare for when you’re not sure who’s going to get the ball when you have three guys of different size? (Jeff Zrebiec) “Yes, and they’re all a little different – you’re right. Lorenzo [Taliaferro] and Bernard [Pierce] are a little bit the same as far as size and how they do things. Lorenzo and Justin [Forsett] are three-down players that play in pass protection situations, nickel situations and those types of things. That’s where Bernard needs to keep coming as a player, in my opinion, but he’s working at it and doing that. We’re going to do what we do, but hopefully we’re doing what each back does best when they’re in there.”

__________________________________________

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Transcripts-Thursday-Media-Availability-Week-4--Panthers/6b13d577-d1cc-4a63-a381-680f44e5bfea

In other words, Kubiak sees Taliaferro as better in pass protection.
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That's quite revealing.

 
Thinking about staring him...

bumpman said:
Straight from the OC's mouth - he sees Taliaferro as a "three-down back" and Pierce not so much:

__________________________________________

As a former head coach, does that make a team tougher to prepare for when you’re not sure who’s going to get the ball when you have three guys of different size? (Jeff Zrebiec) “Yes, and they’re all a little different – you’re right. Lorenzo [Taliaferro] and Bernard [Pierce] are a little bit the same as far as size and how they do things. Lorenzo and Justin [Forsett] are three-down players that play in pass protection situations, nickel situations and those types of things. That’s where Bernard needs to keep coming as a player, in my opinion, but he’s working at it and doing that. We’re going to do what we do, but hopefully we’re doing what each back does best when they’re in there.”

__________________________________________

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Transcripts-Thursday-Media-Availability-Week-4--Panthers/6b13d577-d1cc-4a63-a381-680f44e5bfea

In other words, Kubiak sees Taliaferro as better in pass protection.
Click to expand...
Interesting. That sounds pretty bad considering Pierce's experience.

Don't see anyone being bellcow there, but I think that indictment on Pierce's ability as a 3 down back tells you who the coaches are pulling for to earn more touches (if he hasn't already).

 
From my perspective, it is just a matter of time before Pierce gets hurt again. He has already gone out twice (concussion in preseason and the current thigh injury) at this early point in the season.

 
nastynate said:
Thinking about staring him...

bumpman said:
Straight from the OC's mouth - he sees Taliaferro as a "three-down back" and Pierce not so much:

__________________________________________

As a former head coach, does that make a team tougher to prepare for when you’re not sure who’s going to get the ball when you have three guys of different size? (Jeff Zrebiec) “Yes, and they’re all a little different – you’re right. Lorenzo [Taliaferro] and Bernard [Pierce] are a little bit the same as far as size and how they do things. Lorenzo and Justin [Forsett] are three-down players that play in pass protection situations, nickel situations and those types of things. That’s where Bernard needs to keep coming as a player, in my opinion, but he’s working at it and doing that. We’re going to do what we do, but hopefully we’re doing what each back does best when they’re in there.”

__________________________________________

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Transcripts-Thursday-Media-Availability-Week-4--Panthers/6b13d577-d1cc-4a63-a381-680f44e5bfea

In other words, Kubiak sees Taliaferro as better in pass protection.
Click to expand...
Interesting. That sounds pretty bad considering Pierce's experience.

Don't see anyone being bellcow there, but I think that indictment on Pierce's ability as a 3 down back tells you who the coaches are pulling for to earn more touches (if he hasn't already).
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Kubiak is all over the place in that interview. Forsett is a 3 down back? Really? Kubiak is just saying weird stuff and not making sense. He bashed Pierce's pass protection and referred to the other two as 3 down backs, then turned around and fired this little gem: "Justin [Forsett] and Lorenzo [Taliaferro] do play some special teams, too, so we’re going to keep a fresh guy on the field."

I don't know what he is saying there, but the snap counts here show Forsett has zero special teams snaps this year while Taliaferro has 36. Kubiak is just spewing meaningless nonsense, which tells me we shouldn't read too much (or believe too much) of anything else he said there.

Until the Ravens show some indication that Taliaferro is supplanting Pierce, he's not going to be in my lineup.

ETA: But Pierce will. Gross.

 
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Fat Nick said:
cloppbeast said:
Like the situation in Cleveland, I think folks overstate the demise of veterans running backs. Could be wrong, but I believe a healthy Pierce assumes his starting role this week. As some have mentioned already, there's a lot more that goes into playing running back in the NFL than carrying the football.

It seems like everybody around here always loves the new guy, but forget that, not long ago Pierce and Tate were the hyped new guys with all the potential. Now all of the sudden they're garbage? In two or three years, posters will call Crowell, West, and Taliaferro bums in favor of the shiny new toy.
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This.

I'm not saying Lorenzo will not get carries...but people are talking about him like he's going to instantly slot in as the starter.

For those of you on the Kubiak band wagon, look at Ben Tate...He was a star when he first started subbing in for an injured Foster. He'd regularly put up 100+ and a TD. Who got the starting nod when Foster returned? Foster. Yes...I know Pierce <> Foster, but Pierce was good enough to be in the discussion of replacing Rice. He had 1 good game and 1 bad one. That's not enough to just forget about him.
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I don't think Tate is a good comp for a few reasons. The biggest reason is that he was subbing in for an injured Foster at the beginning of 2011, right after Foster's 1600-yard rushing/600 receiving season. You acknowledge this with Pierce =/= Foster, but it's still a bit understated. Pierce averaged 3 YPC last year and wasn't expected to be the starter in Baltimore after Rice's two-game suspension. He fell into the starting role rather than truly earning it.

Another reason Tate is a poor comp is fit in the ZBS. Foster was--and still is--one of the best zone runners in the league. Tate was good, but not next-level like Foster. It's an open discussion how strong Pierce and Taliaferro both are in this system.

Ultimately, I think Pierce has no real seniority or strong hold on the job. Obviously if he performs well, he's in pole position to keep it. However, he's one of the weakest obstacles to a starting job in the league, so there's massive opportunity here that could start as soon as in the next couple of weeks. I won't be playing Taliaferro anywhere this weekend unless there's a clear report in his favor Sunday morning.

 
bumpman said:
Ultimately, I think Pierce has no real seniority or strong hold on the job. Obviously if he performs well, he's in pole position to keep it. However, he's one of the weakest obstacles to a starting job in the league, so there's massive opportunity here that could start as soon as in the next couple of weeks. I won't be playing Taliaferro anywhere this weekend unless there's a clear report in his favor Sunday morning.
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I think he keeps that role even if he performs...like Pierce, which is to say very average. I think it'll take a fumble or injury or something extremely impressive from Taliaferro for Pierce to lose that 1A job. But if he loses it, I don't see him and Taliaferro really sharing, based on the way the Ravens have split carries so far. If Taliaferro overtakes him (or Pierce fails) I think the situation will flip-flop and it would take something really impressive from Pierce (unlikely) or a Taliaferro failure for Pierce to regain that role.

 
If you're flexing Taliaferro you're going to be hoping for a TD. His floor is so abysmally low that I feel like you can only do it out of desperation. I may find myself in such a position if/when Foster doesn't go this week however.

 
cloppbeast said:
Otis said:
Alex P Keaton said:
What split of touches do you see for Pierce, Forsett, and Taliaferro?
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A few, a couple, most.
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Basing this on what?
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SiriusXM Fantasy @SiriusXMFantasy Follow

"Lorenzo Taliaferro is the most talented running back on the [bAL] Ravens roster." @ScotteRotoEx on Waiver Wire pickups.

Sometimes that doesn't matter though. Would think Forsett has a little leg up being a Kubiak guy. Lo being a 4th round pick can't hurt though. I've watched Lorenzo for about 6 years now and people (including me for a while, "he'll never make it to the NFL") have said he can't do this or that. He's always proved them wrong. One of the greatest attributes to have is motivation. And he has plenty of it.
 
Ever Present Lurker said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Anyone starting Taliaferro this weekend?
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I'm going with Zorro at Flex2 in the FFPC, based on byes and injury. It was down to Randle or Zorro, so I decided to roll the dice... decent game from Randle too - so Zorro better mount up.
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3nOut said:
Who will get the GL touches? If it's Lorenzo, then he may be worth a start at flex.
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dickey moe said:
Have to in a deep league where he is my best option at Flex.
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I as well due to usual bye week / forced circumstances. I just wish the matchup was better. CAR just got rolled on the ground 1950s style by PIT, and BAL is another AFCN opponent playing at home. That's the rosy way to look at it. But I also take it that the Panthers PIT game was an anomaly. Another positive spin on the 'hot hand' comment is that that is coach speak when a HC does not want to insult a vet, who can blame him if he thinks someone other than Pierce has the "hot" hand? And SSmith vs his old team will be the focus. Personally I think SS is going to do very well vs CAR, at the same time they are focused on stopping him, and that could open things up. It is wishful thinking but I'd like to see 25-30 carries, maybe 11 for Taliaferro, 9 for Pierce, ~7 for Forsett. Give me a long run and a TD for Taliaferro and I will feel like I got away with a decent RB2 day. Again, surely wishful thinking brought on by circumstances. Pulling against Carolina to boot so nothing would please me more than watching Bal beat them while Tal has a good day, this is why I do FF.

 
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Alex P Keaton said:
Otis said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Otis said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Anyone starting Taliaferro this weekend?
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:thumbup:
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What production are you expecting from him?
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75 and a TD
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What split of touches do you see for Pierce, Forsett, and Taliaferro?
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pierce and talia are gonna split series and they will go with the hot hand. pierce gets first crack. forsett plays passing downs and gets 4-6 catches. forsett has averaged 10 carries a game but you gotta think that falls off, so maybe 5 carries. i really hope he gets 10 bc then he can remain a desperation flex ppr play.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ever Present Lurker said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
Anyone starting Taliaferro this weekend?
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I'm going with Zorro at Flex2 in the FFPC, based on byes and injury. It was down to Randle or Zorro, so I decided to roll the dice... decent game from Randle too - so Zorro better mount up.
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3nOut said:
Who will get the GL touches? If it's Lorenzo, then he may be worth a start at flex.
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dickey moe said:
Have to in a deep league where he is my best option at Flex.
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I as well due to usual bye week / forced circumstances. I just wish the matchup was better. CAR just got rolled on the ground 1950s style by PIT, and BAL is another AFCN opponent playing at home. That's the rosy way to look at it. But I also take it that the Panthers PIT game was an anomaly. Another positive spin on the 'hot hand' comment is that that is coach speak when a HC does not want to insult a vet, who can blame him if he thinks someone other than Pierce has the "hot" hand? And SSmith vs his old team will be the focus. Personally I think SS is going to do very well vs CAR, at the same time they are focused on stopping him, and that could open things up. It is wishful thinking but I'd like to see 25-30 carries, maybe 11 for Taliaferro, 9 for Pierce, ~7 for Forsett. Give me a long run and a TD for Taliaferro and I will feel like I got away with a decent RB2 day. Again, surely wishful thinking brought on by circumstances. Pulling against Carolina to boot so nothing would please me more than watching Bal beat them while Tal has a good day, this is why I do FF.
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I'm not sure Kubiak would coddle Pierce that way. Harbaugh sure didn't, benching Pierce for the only fumble in his professional career. Another example of coaches NOT coddling a player is in Cleveland, where West has been losing more and more touches to Crowell and the coach, instead of coddling West and saying 'hot hand", just frankly states that Crowell has performed so well they are going to give him more touches.

I don't recommend trying to pick and choose which of Kubiak's inconsistent comments to believe, then using that one as the basis for starting/benching either Pierce or Taliaferro,

 
Rotoworld:

Lorenzo Taliaferro rushed 15 times for 58 yards and a touchdown in the Ravens' Week 4 win over the Panthers.

Taliaferro was utilized as Baltimore's "breather" back in the first half, before racking up garbage-time carries in the blowout. The fourth-round rookie did not run with as much purpose or decisiveness as he did in last week's win over the Browns, but did run clearly ahead of Bernard Pierce, who didn't play at all against the Panthers. Taliaferro will remain a dicey flex play in Week 5 at Indianapolis. Justin Forsett simply outplayed him on Sunday. Over his last two games, Taliaferro has 149 yards and two touchdowns on 33 runs (4.52 YPC).



Sep 28 - 4:09 PM
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Ever Present Lurker said:
HOLY CRAP! I got his nickname! We HAVE to call him Zorro!!!! Take it viral, right now.

Zorro!

ETA: A little research has shown me suspicious that he may already be known as Zo-bot. I want Zorro. The fox, so cunning and free.
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Wait:

The Italian Stallion.

:scared:

You're welcome.

(And more importantly how about showing up in the 2nd half with a TD and bunch of carries?)

 
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Ive just heard him called Zo. Simple and I like it.

Also seems they were kinda garbage time carries but he made the most of them - hoping for more and more!

 
Zobot has been his name for a while and what he uses on Twitter. My daughter calls him Lo. :shrug:

Or maybe it was Zo and I'm just old and hard of hearing.

 
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Seems like IND is good for giving up a rushing TD per week. I like Zo's (yes, I like this nickname) chance of punching one in again vs. IND this Sunday.

 
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