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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)

He Amy have killed me in one and I have to think long and hard in the two I have him in for next week BUT he did have 20 carries to West's 2 no?

Dont know what to make if this....
A trend has been established. Whether it is because Ware is running out of steam, the OL isn't consistently blocking well, Reid isn't creative with Ware's touches anymore etc. etc.. he's turned into a RB3/flex play. I mean he's really struggling to crack 60 yards on the ground right now in Gurley-esque fashion. I think you'll be looking at 6-8 points and 12-14 if you're lucky next week. One of the reasons I was so excited about Ware was because of his schedule but if he can't run on ATL and OAK in consecutive weeks I don't know how he'll be able to do so against TEN.

I'm kind of obsessed with snaps/utilization because I understand that it is the prerequisite to production but it's not the end all be all. Ware's 20 touches are significantly less valuable from a point per touch standpoint than a lot of RBs right now. It's a sad state of affairs.

 
Anyone seen how many times Ware over the last month has taken the hand off on 1st and 10? What is the Chiefs ratio of run/pass on 1st down in all 4 quarters? Seems like predictably it's a handoff to Ware straight into the center of the line...maybe I'm way off. 

 
Anyone seen how many times Ware over the last month has taken the hand off on 1st and 10? What is the Chiefs ratio of run/pass on 1st down in all 4 quarters? Seems like predictably it's a handoff to Ware straight into the center of the line...maybe I'm way off. 
Your not..  he gets no creativity on his runs.  It's sad 

 
Despite all of the chatter, he is still 16th among RBs in PPG this season.  Granted, I think most of us thought Ware would have been a top 10 RB with Charles basically not playing almost all of the season, but as the 16th best RB, he is still outperforming his ADP.  

 
Anyone seen how many times Ware over the last month has taken the hand off on 1st and 10? What is the Chiefs ratio of run/pass on 1st down in all 4 quarters? Seems like predictably it's a handoff to Ware straight into the center of the line...maybe I'm way off. 
That is my impression as well, though the week before it seemed a bit more creative. I was surprised to see in Football Outsiders' stats that the Chiefs run to mid/guard a league-average 56% of the time. Did they not run up the middle at all until October?

 
He seems to be getting worse every week
Every week since the concussion game ...  My unpopular take at the time was this was bad for his value and to unload if your could get rb1 value. That wasn't well received by the fanboys, but look at his performance since he missed that game. And these last 4 games were easy matchups. His brain seems to be processing reads slower. The line and Reidsville play calling were not hampering jc nor West last year. This is just a lame fanboy excuse. Let's face facts here. It's not like he whiffed on just one easy matchup here. he put up around 3 ypc on defences other rb1s would put 100+ yds on 4 games in a row. He got lucky in the ATL game to get 2 tds, or this disaster would have been even worse.

 
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sho nuff said:
A certain Dairy loving person who loves to "I told you so" in other player threads is noticeably quiet today.
H'es prolly too busy calculating Ware's dynasty value. Wonder if he still has Ware ranked top 15 overall?  :lmao:

 
Every week since the concussion game ...  My unpopular take at the time was this was bad for his value and to unload if your could get rb1 value. That wasn't well received by the fanboys, but look at his performance since he missed that game. And these last 4 games were easy matchups. His brain seems to be processing reads slower. The line and Reidsville play calling were not hampering jc nor West last year. This is just a lame fanboy excuse. Let's face facts here. It's not like he whiffed on just one easy matchup here. he put up around 3 ypc on defences other rb1s would put 100+ yds on 4 games in a row. He got lucky in the ATL game to get 2 tds, or this disaster would have been even worse.
Ware looked tentative in the first half, but I also didn't see Reid doing him any favors w the run plays. I personally never expected anything more than solid RB2 production out of him, but I think other factors are driving Ware's production down like defenses adjusting to lack of a vertical threat.  Problem is that as long as KC keeps winning, nothing will cause Reid to change anything.  He will be perfectly content to grind out games and depend on his defense to win the game of field position.

 
Every week since the concussion game ...  My unpopular take at the time was this was bad for his value and to unload if your could get rb1 value. That wasn't well received by the fanboys, but look at his performance since he missed that game. And these last 4 games were easy matchups. His brain seems to be processing reads slower. The line and Reidsville play calling were not hampering jc nor West last year. This is just a lame fanboy excuse. Let's face facts here. It's not like he whiffed on just one easy matchup here. he put up around 3 ypc on defences other rb1s would put 100+ yds on 4 games in a row. He got lucky in the ATL game to get 2 tds, or this disaster would have been even worse.
Did he look bad two weeks ago when Smith missed him, wide open on a 50-yard route?

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Good to see you in prime trolling mode this early in the day.
Post the rolling eyes some more. It's such a compelling arguing tool. 

It baffles me why some people are so invested in a player that they willfully deny the obvious.  As bad as Milkman was about relentlessly pimping Ware, at least he had sense enough to take his schtick to another thread rather than continue to make excuses for subpar performance. 

.

 
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Alex P Keaton said:
Did he look bad two weeks ago when Smith missed him, wide open on a 50-yard route?
No...he looked good finding blown coverage.  But again...Alex Smith has been his QB and will continue to be his QB.  His limitations as well as Reid's have to be factored in when discussing Ware.

 
No...he looked good finding blown coverage.  But again...Alex Smith has been his QB and will continue to be his QB.  His limitations as well as Reid's have to be factored in when discussing Ware.
Agreed with the limitations of his coach and QB.  I'm not in here to pretend he's Zeke Elliott.  It just baffles me why people act like he sucks.  I'm somewhere in the middle - grateful that he's performed as RB2 much of the year.

 
Post the rolling eyes some more. It's such a compelling arguing tool. 

It baffles me why some people are so invested in a player that they willfully deny the obvious.  As bad as Milkman was about relentlessly pimping Ware, at least he had sense enough to take his schtick to another thread rather than continue to make excuses for subpar performance. 

.
I'm not that invested in him.  It baffles me why you and others act like he sucks.

 
Agreed with the limitations of his coach and QB.  I'm not in here to pretend he's Zeke Elliott.  It just baffles me why people act like he sucks.  I'm somewhere in the middle - grateful that he's performed as RB2 much of the year.
Agreed...I don't think he sucks...he is an RB 2 and those making him out to be elite or great have shown to be incorrect time and time again.

 
Agreed...I don't think he sucks...he is an RB 2 and those making him out to be elite or great have shown to be incorrect time and time again.
Yeah, he's not elite.  Then again, few RBs are.  I still see him as the starter in KC next year, and as a solid dynasty asset.  But anyone who sees top-5 upside over a whole season.....is missing the Reid/Smith part of the equation.

The thing that distracts from that discussion in here is the unwillingness to have a real discussion.

 
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The thing that distracts from that discussion in here is the unwillingness to have a real discussion.
Everyone is too busy pissing on each other and calling people fanboys or haters. 

Mid love to have a discussion about dynasty value. Does JC come back to KC?  Will JC ever be close to prior form?  Will Ware be the starting RB in KC next year or does JC/new back take over?  I think I'd put him in mid-RB2 territory off the top of my head. 

 
Everyone is too busy pissing on each other and calling people fanboys or haters. 

Mid love to have a discussion about dynasty value. Does JC come back to KC?  Will JC ever be close to prior form?  Will Ware be the starting RB in KC next year or does JC/new back take over?  I think I'd put him in mid-RB2 territory off the top of my head. 
Ditto.  Even if JC is resurrected (Lazarus style), I see him splitting touches with Ware.  Hard to see KC investing in a stud RB - they have too many other needs.  Like, hey, another good WR to pair with the aging Maclin.

 
The thing that distracts from that discussion in here is the unwillingness to have a real discussion.


:lol:  

Delicious irony. You bind your argument aroung a play that didn't happen and then get butt hurt when it is pointed out. Suppose Smith was on target on that one play that you bring up as your linchpin. That same game can be played many times every week with many players. Can you guarantee Ware would have caught the ball? 

 
:lol:  

Delicious irony. You bind your argument aroung a play that didn't happen and then get butt hurt when it is pointed out. Suppose Smith was on target on that one play that you bring up as your linchpin. That same game can be played many times every week with many players. Can you guarantee Ware would have caught the ball? 
Wait, the play didn't happen?  Ware didn't get open?  Holy ####!!!

This is how the discussion gets sidetracked.  You are so invested in micro-moments of trying to be "right" that you can't step back and have a real, substantive discussion.

Done with your nonsense.  Back to talking about Ware's dynasty prospects.

 
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As for his dynasty value, these would seem to be important factors going forward:

1. Will Reid be back? There is no reason to think otherwise. He only has one year remaining on his contract after this season, but an extension is expected. He is only 58, and it seems likely he will coach out his career at KC. So he should be the guy for the rest of Ware's time in KC.

2. Will Smith continue to be the QB? There is no reason to think otherwise. He is signed through 2018, and KC would take a $7.2M cap hit if they cut him after this season. Plus, who would they get to replace him? While Smith is decidedly average, it isn't easy to find a starting NFL QB even that good. Look at HOU and Osweiler; DEN without Peyton and Osweiler; CLE; etc. It isn't often a team can find a Dak Prescott in the 4th round.

3. Will Charles be back? It seems like they should not plan to bring him back for $7M, but I don't really know much about how the KC front office operates. Can anyone comment on that? Also, how willing would Charles be to restructure and take less to come back vs. hitting the open market?

4. What changes will be made to the rest of the offense, and are they positive for RB production? The OL has been average in run blocking and below average at pass protection, per DVOA. Will they improve it? Maybe Maclin will be back to form and healthier...?

#1 and #2 seem unlikely to change, so the last 2 items seem like the ones that matter most.

 
Every week since the concussion game ...  My unpopular take at the time was this was bad for his value and to unload if your could get rb1 value. That wasn't well received by the fanboys, but look at his performance since he missed that game. And these last 4 games were easy matchups. His brain seems to be processing reads slower. The line and Reidsville play calling were not hampering jc nor West last year. This is just a lame fanboy excuse. Let's face facts here. It's not like he whiffed on just one easy matchup here. he put up around 3 ypc on defences other rb1s would put 100+ yds on 4 games in a row. He got lucky in the ATL game to get 2 tds, or this disaster would have been even worse.
You take was unpopular because it was ludicrously over the top. You started going off on how it could be career threatening - even brought up Jahvid Best - because he missed one game. Once again not one single person said suffering a concussion was a good thing.

Now you double down. Do you really think this poor game was a result of a concussion weeks ago? Has that ever happened before? Has a player suffered a concussion and then struggled weeks later?

What about his huge game two weeks ago? Was that just a moment of clarity in between concussion issues. And as to the bolded - come on.

It's far more likely that he's just wearing down because he's never handled such big workload over a full season before.

How has West done this season? This all started because you backed him as a threat to Ware. He's done every bit as poorly. Concussion related?

 
Every week since the concussion game ...  My unpopular take at the time was this was bad for his value and to unload if your could get rb1 value. That wasn't well received by the fanboys, but look at his performance since he missed that game. And these last 4 games were easy matchups. His brain seems to be processing reads slower. The line and Reidsville play calling were not hampering jc nor West last year. This is just a lame fanboy excuse. Let's face facts here. It's not like he whiffed on just one easy matchup here. he put up around 3 ypc on defences other rb1s would put 100+ yds on 4 games in a row. He got lucky in the ATL game to get 2 tds, or this disaster would have been even worse.
C West should also be checked for a concussion. 

 
You take was unpopular because it was ludicrously over the top. You started going off on how it could be career threatening - even brought up Jahvid Best - because he missed one game. Once again not one single person said suffering a concussion was a good thing.

Now you double down. Do you really think this poor game was a result of a concussion weeks ago? Has that ever happened before? Has a player suffered a concussion and then struggled weeks later?

What about his huge game two weeks ago? Was that just a moment of clarity in between concussion issues. And as to the bolded - come on.

Huge game? LOL He did get two Asiata style TDs. Without those he would have scored another single digit game about what he scored last Thu, around 7 points. Thank God he got those, but does that make him "Awesome" or lucky? Which is more accredited to these two TDs? Since he doesn't have many TDs on the year is this a good bet week to week to get 2 TDs to bail out his 2.0 ypc week 13? In fact this game you point to speaks volumes about his ineffectiveness with 14 carries for 29 yards, which just adds further support to my position. Waht has been his ypc vs 4 easy matchups in a row? He has also enjoyed one of the easiet RB schedules in the league for 2016.

 It's far more likely that he's just wearing down because he's never handled such big workload over a full season before. That could add to it, just another reason to trade him mid season if you can get RB1 value. Most admit he is RB2/RB3 value now. So was this bad advice I gave at the time?

How has West done this season? This all started because you backed him as a threat to Ware. LOL   :no:  I advised to pick up West as a handcuff when JC went to Dr. Andrews. I also pointed out his snap counts were significant. I never said he was a threat to take Ware's starting role. It is funny thought that Ware's concussion occurred 3-4 days after I advised picking up West as a handcuff. Was that bad advice?

He's done every bit as poorly. Concussion related?
Results speak for themselves. I said to trade him away after the concussion based upon future risk this season, not career ending. I backed this up with evidence from doctors that these types of concussions that cause people to miss games tend to linger for up to a year. I also pointed out that after watching his game he was making poor reads on his blocks, and I have seen move evidence of this over the past month. Many were poo pooing this and even posted they were buyers, "nothing to worry about" ... "nothing to see here." Obviously I enjoyed the first half of the season success like all the other Ware owners in here, I was just realistic about the injury.

 
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Results speak for themselves. I said to trade him away after the concussion based upon future risk this season, not career ending. I backed this up with evidence from doctors that these types of concussions that cause people to miss games tend to linger for up to a year. I also pointed out that after watching his game he was making poor reads on his blocks, and I have seen move evidence of this over the past month. Many were poo pooing this and even posted they were buyers, "nothing to worry about" ... "nothing to see here." Obviously I enjoyed the first half of the season success like all the other Ware owners in here, I was just realistic about the injury.
I've started him every week on two teams that are now into the final four of the playoffs. He's been a solid RB2 which is all I can really ask for in this landscape. I can't say if I would have been better off trading him away or not obviously, but I'm not upset that I didn't.

You actually weren't "realistic" at all about the injury - unless you have some really strange definition of realistic. You brought up Jahvid Best, twice, because he was to miss one game before we had any information at all as to the severity.

 
I've started him every week on two teams that are now into the final four of the playoffs. He's been a solid RB2 which is all I can really ask for in this landscape. I can't say if I would have been better off trading him away or not obviously, but I'm not upset that I didn't.

You actually weren't "realistic" at all about the injury - unless you have some really strange definition of realistic. You brought up Jahvid Best, twice, because he was to miss one game before we had any information at all as to the severity.
I pointed to Jahvid Best because most were taking it too lightly, and brought his name up as a worst case scenario to remind people about what a serious thing concussion protocol is, especially if you miss game(s) from them. All I said in my initial claim was this is not good news, then it ramped up to our huge debate. You make it sound like I just into the thread and said, "Ware is going to never play again, just like Jahvid Best!"

I said that there is more risk in the future for Ware going forward with every concussion he sustains, and that his running style lends itself to more in the future. Laugh all you want, but next season I consider this as part of my analysis. I see far too many posters say things like, "Concussion is not like a hamstring, once you are back on the field you are good as new!" Even a cursory approach to researching concussions shows that standpoint just simply isn't the case, and is unrealistic. Jahvid Best just proves that over time many concussions add up and now Ware has sustained a serious one so that should be factored in. If he didn't miss a game it would be less of an issue.

And I never said Ware was going to never play again like Best, but I do respect the doctors that say he is more likely to get more concussions because of it, having had a serious enough one that he missed a game. Concussions also slow down processing of the brain, which is a handicap for RBs that need to make split second reads off instinct. Keep in mind that there are many ex football players that are suffering the long term effects of brain trauma, and the NFL is trying to settle this for 1 billion dollars. It's not a small thing, and you would be refusing research that point to long and short term effects of brain function abnormally after sustaining serious concussions to think otherwise.

But all this above is just theory, bottom line is result speak for themselves. You might disagree with my theory as to why Ware has fallen from RB1 (top5) status to now RB2/RB3 status after the concussion, but then you were arguing theories about why we should not take the concussion seriously at the time and were promoting him as a sure fire performer going forward at the RB1 level, even after he got back from concussion. So since you were so disastrously wrong about those claims, and I was right about what really happened, are we now supposed to believe you are right about the why's of what happened?  It seems more logical to follow someone that was right about the results, and take his reasoning as to the why's with more weight and credibility. After all, you were so wrong about the results, why would we now give any credence to your theories about why it happened? Before you were telling us why Ware was going to be just fine, and a top RB going forward.

 
MNM knows what he is talking about guys...he stayed at a Holiday Express last night.
LOL Weebs. It's getting creepy, you're stalking me in every thread, months later ... especially in threads like this where you never posted anything about Ware or on topic. You only come here to post about me.

Hey Creepy Weebsy, I thought you were all about the TLDR (too long didn’t read) when you fooled yourself in the Dwayne Washington thread? Then you got fooled again in the Jordan Howard thread. That wasn’t enough of a public shaming of yourself, so you followed me to the Booker thread, now the Ware thread where you are not even pretending to post about Ware. If you are truly TLDR how did you know what I said in my post above? You just TLDR when you get schooled and are shut down. LOL

I’m flattered to have you following me around from thread to thread like a groupie, hanging on my every word, but it’s gotta stop, man. You’re creeping me out worse than a pasty, overweight forty-five-year-old guy who lures children to his basement to watch manga-online videos. Or maybe you’re just a woman scorned? Interested to see your responses in the other threads since its obvious you are reading my posts as you reply within seconds of my posting them.

I want to apologize in advance for the small role I might have played in your recent showing of mental instability, but you fooled yourself with your own comments. I merely pointed them out in a public forum, which is the sole reason you are harassing me right now in every thread you can find. No one else that took the pro-Washington side in that thread are stalking me like a deranged psycho lunatic like yourself. Take a deep breath and let it go. Your anger is misplaced. The only person to blame on your ridiculous calls is yourself.

 
LOL Weebs. It's getting creepy, you're stalking me in every thread, months later ... especially in threads like this where you never posted anything about Ware or on topic. You only come here to post about me.

Hey Creepy Weebsy, I thought you were all about the TLDR (too long didn’t read) when you fooled yourself in the Dwayne Washington thread? Then you got fooled again in the Jordan Howard thread. That wasn’t enough of a public shaming of yourself, so you followed me to the Booker thread, now the Ware thread where you are not even pretending to post about Ware. If you are truly TLDR how did you know what I said in my post above? You just TLDR when you get schooled and are shut down. LOL

I’m flattered to have you following me around from thread to thread like a groupie, hanging on my every word, but it’s gotta stop, man. You’re creeping me out worse than a pasty, overweight forty-five-year-old guy who lures children to his basement to watch manga-online videos. Or maybe you’re just a woman scorned? Interested to see your responses in the other threads since its obvious you are reading my posts as you reply within seconds of my posting them.

I want to apologize in advance for the small role I might have played in your recent showing of mental instability, but you fooled yourself with your own comments. I merely pointed them out in a public forum, which is the sole reason you are harassing me right now in every thread you can find. No one else that took the pro-Washington side in that thread are stalking me like a deranged psycho lunatic like yourself. Take a deep breath and let it go. Your anger is misplaced. The only person to blame on your ridiculous calls is yourself.
Has anyone actually seen Weebs and MNM in the same room? Folks we might have a Tyler Durden situation on our hands here... 

 
As for his dynasty value, these would seem to be important factors going forward:

1. Will Reid be back? There is no reason to think otherwise. He only has one year remaining on his contract after this season, but an extension is expected. He is only 58, and it seems likely he will coach out his career at KC. So he should be the guy for the rest of Ware's time in KC.

2. Will Smith continue to be the QB? There is no reason to think otherwise. He is signed through 2018, and KC would take a $7.2M cap hit if they cut him after this season. Plus, who would they get to replace him? While Smith is decidedly average, it isn't easy to find a starting NFL QB even that good. Look at HOU and Osweiler; DEN without Peyton and Osweiler; CLE; etc. It isn't often a team can find a Dak Prescott in the 4th round.

3. Will Charles be back? It seems like they should not plan to bring him back for $7M, but I don't really know much about how the KC front office operates. Can anyone comment on that? Also, how willing would Charles be to restructure and take less to come back vs. hitting the open market?

4. What changes will be made to the rest of the offense, and are they positive for RB production? The OL has been average in run blocking and below average at pass protection, per DVOA. Will they improve it? Maybe Maclin will be back to form and healthier...?

#1 and #2 seem unlikely to change, so the last 2 items seem like the ones that matter most.
Wasn't there some noise a couple weeks ago that KC might move on from Smith?  I didn't read much about it so may have been random speculation. 

 
As for his dynasty value, these would seem to be important factors going forward:

1. Will Reid be back? There is no reason to think otherwise. He only has one year remaining on his contract after this season, but an extension is expected. He is only 58, and it seems likely he will coach out his career at KC. So he should be the guy for the rest of Ware's time in KC.

2. Will Smith continue to be the QB? There is no reason to think otherwise. He is signed through 2018, and KC would take a $7.2M cap hit if they cut him after this season. Plus, who would they get to replace him? While Smith is decidedly average, it isn't easy to find a starting NFL QB even that good. Look at HOU and Osweiler; DEN without Peyton and Osweiler; CLE; etc. It isn't often a team can find a Dak Prescott in the 4th round.

3. Will Charles be back? It seems like they should not plan to bring him back for $7M, but I don't really know much about how the KC front office operates. Can anyone comment on that? Also, how willing would Charles be to restructure and take less to come back vs. hitting the open market?

4. What changes will be made to the rest of the offense, and are they positive for RB production? The OL has been average in run blocking and below average at pass protection, per DVOA. Will they improve it? Maybe Maclin will be back to form and healthier...?

#1 and #2 seem unlikely to change, so the last 2 items seem like the ones that matter most.
Double post.

 
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So after another ho-hum result last week I told myself I would not start him this week if I made it and here he is sitting in my starting lineup again waving at me.  Ungh...

 
This guy has truly been the most polarizing player of 2016.  Here it is week 15 and we still don't have a real good read on him.   

All we know is he's a floor of 7 with a ceiling of 20.  Seems he's either going to let you down in your lineup, or piss you off by blowing up on your bench.  I finally had to pull the plug.   7 points won't help me against the teams I'm matched with in the playoffs.  Good luck to those who have no other option.   

 
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Ware or Dixon?? And yes-- I know where the AC forum is. 
Why limit yourself? Give us your entire roster. We'll guide you through it with personalized recommendations and estimated production. Is your league still allowing trading? What's the scoring like? Forget that - just post a link to your league rules. We'll parse through them to help give you any and every advantage. It's playoff time and we want *you* to win! 

 

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