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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (1 Viewer)

This puts a wrinkle in to how you go about bidding on west this week. Especially as a ware owner.  He's now the clear handcuff to a valuable rb position.

 
I for whatever reason waited to get West, probably because I had Charles as well. 11:56 am another team grabbed him as a emergency start, now I have to attempt to pry him away. 

 
Absolutely Nothing said:
Reid has been playing it conservative with players coming back from injuries. Haven't seen the practice report but if he's not practicing, nothing we've seen this year leads me to believe Reid will gameplan for him to carry a load like he has in previous weeks. West is a capable back that can carry the load against a poor defense, and there is no question that he'll go, so prepare with what you got.
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I'm less concerned about how Reid handles players coming back from injury than I am with how Reid splits carries.  I expect this to be a 60/40 split in Ware's favor for the rest of the year as Reid tries to keep his big back healthy.  Concussion definitely will limit the ROS value of Ware even if Ware returns this week

 
Morton Muffley said:
I'm less concerned about how Reid handles players coming back from injury than I am with how Reid splits carries. I expect this to be a 60/40 split in Ware's favor for the rest of the year as Reid tries to keep his big back healthy. Concussion definitely will limit the ROS value of Ware even if Ware returns this week
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Week 1


Week 2 


Week 3 


Week 4 


Week 5 


Week 6 


Week 7 


Week 8 


 


Week 1 


Week 2 


Week 3 


Week 4 


Week 5 


Week 6 


Week 7 


Week 8 


West


48%


41%


22%


0%


 


0%


27%


57%


 


9


8


6


0


 


0


7


17


Charles


0%


0%


0%


13%


 


23%


4%


0%


 


0


0


0


3


 


11


1


0


Ware


48%


56%


71%


72%


 


62%


69%


35%


 


19


13


21


18


 


26


19


9

Regardless of how the snaps are divvied out, I don't see a healthy Ware not touching the ball ~20 times a game. I think there will always be 8-10 touches for whoever is behind him but that has been the situation from the get-go.

 
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Morton Muffley said:
I'm less concerned about how Reid handles players coming back from injury than I am with how Reid splits carries.  I expect this to be a 60/40 split in Ware's favor for the rest of the year as Reid tries to keep his big back healthy.  Concussion definitely will limit the ROS value of Ware even if Ware returns this week
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I more worried about Ware's concussion and when he can play again.  The absence of info is odd.  When JC was out, how many carries did West get? I don't see that changing significantly unless Ware's concussion is more serious than that post game video of him in the clubhouse with his family suggests.

 
SameSongNDance said:
 


Week 1


Week 2


Week 3


Week 4


Week 5


Week 6 


Week 7


Week 8


 


Week 1 


Week 2 


Week 3 


Week 4


Week 5


Week 6


Week 7


Week 8


West


48%


41%


22%


0%


 


0%


27%


57%


 


9


8


6


0


 


0


7


17


Charles


0%


0%


0%


13%


 


23%


4%


0%


 


0


0


0


3


 


11


1


0


Ware


48%


56%


71%


72%


 


62%


69%


35%


 


19


13


21


18


 


26


19


9



Regardless of how the snaps are divvied out, I don't see a healthy Ware not touching the ball ~20 times a game. I think there will always be 8-10 touches for whoever is behind him but that has been the situation from the get-go.
Click to expand...
70/30 with Ware getting plenty of catches and GL. It's funny how hard people are fighting this.....Ware's been great/border line elite for a big sample. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
 


Week 1


Week 2 


Week 3 


Week 4 


Week 5 


Week 6 


Week 7 


Week 8 


 


Week 1 


Week 2 


Week 3 


Week 4 


Week 5 


Week 6 


Week 7 


Week 8 


West


48%


41%


22%


0%


 


0%


27%


57%


 


9


8


6


0


 


0


7


17


Charles


0%


0%


0%


13%


 


23%


4%


0%


 


0


0


0


3


 


11


1


0


Ware


48%


56%


71%


72%


 


62%


69%


35%


 


19


13


21


18


 


26


19


9

Regardless of how the snaps are divvied out, I don't see a healthy Ware not touching the ball ~20 times a game. I think there will always be 8-10 touches for whoever is behind him but that has been the situation from the get-go.
Click to expand...
How many of these games was the non Ware RB fully healthy?

 
need2know said:
Doesn't mean a whole lot but he looked fine.  also was a pic of him today at KC facility on twitter taking pics with some other players.  he's not in some dark room with a headache
Click to expand...
 Just as a point of clarification, post concussion syndrome can present itself in many different ways. Headache, haziness or confusion, lightheadedness, dizziness, feeling as if you're in a cloud, etc. Usually the treatment is rest and avoiding activities that may exacerbate symptoms. This may include physical activity as well as mental activity like doing math or homework, computer or screen time, or anything that requires extended concentration  

People with post concussion syndrome may look normal and have mild symptoms   only to feel worse with activity or exertion; or not but yet are not cleared for activity by physicians because they still have symptoms 

in other words, you don't have to sit in a dark room waiting for symptoms to improve.  Having said all that, the way he's talking and acting means more to me since he shows no concern frustration sadness or anger 

 
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red said:
 Just as a point of clarification, post concussion syndrome can present itself in many different ways. Headache, haziness or confusion, lightheadedness, dizziness, feeling as if you're in a cloud, etc. Usually the treatment is rest and avoiding activities that may exacerbate symptoms. This may include physical activity as well as mental activity like doing math or homework, computer or screen time, or anything that requires extended concentration  

People with post concussion syndrome may look normal and have mild symptoms   only to feel worse with activity or exertion; or not but yet are not cleared for activity by physicians because they still have symptoms 

in other words, you don't have to sit in a dark room waiting for symptoms to improve
Click to expand...
The first thing I typed was it probably doesn't  mean a whole lot

 
Last edited by a moderator:
red said:
 Just as a point of clarification, post concussion syndrome can present itself in many different ways. Headache, haziness or confusion, lightheadedness, dizziness, feeling as if you're in a cloud, etc. Usually the treatment is rest and avoiding activities that may exacerbate symptoms. This may include physical activity as well as mental activity like doing math or homework, computer or screen time, or anything that requires extended concentration  

People with post concussion syndrome may look normal and have mild symptoms   only to feel worse with activity or exertion; or not but yet are not cleared for activity by physicians because they still have symptoms 

in other words, you don't have to sit in a dark room waiting for symptoms to improve.  Having said all that, the way he's talking and acting means more to me since he shows no concern frustration sadness or anger 
Click to expand...
Exactly. 

Guys in here posting that he will be fine, my guess is they have never had a concussion in their life 

 
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so watched the game. The most concerning thing about Ware was his last run of the 1st quarter. He had an obvious big play there and put his head down and fell forward when he should have cut right. It might be because of the concussion that he missed this obvious cut., but he got hit hard again in the last minutes of the 1st half (actually looked like he fumbled on that play). 

Things I noticed about Charc ... He got the rock early so he was getting work before Ware went out in the 2nd half. It points to signs that the plan is he will resume the 40% snaps time share when both are healthy. Had two big plays called back from ticky tack fouls (18 yard rec and 33 yard run on one where he had 20 yards in the bank before the WR stupidly blocked a guy in the back downfield that wasn't needed). Foles also missed him on an easy pass TD. It could have been a good scoring game and Sharc looked good, cutting well. Should be a good spot start if he gets the opp.

 
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Milkman said:
70/30 with Ware getting plenty of catches and GL. It's funny how hard people are fighting this.....Ware's been great/border line elite for a big sample. 
Click to expand...
Milkman, may be splitting hairs here as you seem to be addressing my prediction of a 60/40 split. FWIW, I have been among the most pro-Ware posters in this thread:

drafted him in the 8th round 3 days prior to kick off

advocated AGAINST trying to trade for Charles to "lock up the Chiefs RB position"

argued with Trip that Ware was at worst an RB2 with a better than decent chance he was an RB1 under the premise that Charles may not ever be "right" this year

laughed at those who dropped Ware when Charles' return was imminent after the bye

scoffed at his RB37 value in the top 200 after week 4

declared that I was starting him with confidence in week 6 (when others were either sitting him or playing Charles over him)

So, those are my Ware bonafides!

Now, that said it is pretty obvious that:

Reid likes to have a rotation at RB

Ware is a physical runner who takes a lot of punishment

Ware is THE key to the Chiefs making a deep playoff run

West has shown himself to be a capable back

Charles is on IR and thus not coming back should Ware suffer from over-use

Ware just suffered a concussion

Now, following Bloom's theory of rational coaching* don't you think a 60/40 split is more likely?

To be clear, I still think he will be the preferred choice at the goal line, but also think he will see 15-18 touches while West gets 10-12.  Still makes him an RB1 in my book, just not the top 5 difference maker I thought I had a week ago.

*always dangerous with Reid

 
Morton Muffley said:
Milkman, may be splitting hairs here as you seem to be addressing my prediction of a 60/40 split. FWIW, I have been among the most pro-Ware posters in this thread:

drafted him in the 8th round 3 days prior to kick off

advocated AGAINST trying to trade for Charles to "lock up the Chiefs RB position"

argued with Trip that Ware was at worst an RB2 with a better than decent chance he was an RB1 under the premise that Charles may not ever be "right" this year

laughed at those who dropped Ware when Charles' return was imminent after the bye

scoffed at his RB37 value in the top 200 after week 4

declared that I was starting him with confidence in week 6 (when others were either sitting him or playing Charles over him)

So, those are my Ware bonafides!

Now, that said it is pretty obvious that:

Reid likes to have a rotation at RB

Ware is a physical runner who takes a lot of punishment

Ware is THE key to the Chiefs making a deep playoff run

West has shown himself to be a capable back

Charles is on IR and thus not coming back should Ware suffer from over-use

Ware just suffered a concussion

Now, following Bloom's theory of rational coaching* don't you think a 60/40 split is more likely?

To be clear, I still think he will be the preferred choice at the goal line, but also think he will see 15-18 touches while West gets 10-12.  Still makes him an RB1 in my book, just not the top 5 difference maker I thought I had a week ago.

*always dangerous with Reid
Click to expand...
They might not make the playoffs if they don't play their best players. Playing Ware as much as they can gives them the best chance to do that. Can't guarantee Reid won't be dumb but it's been 70/30 pretty much all season. Ware is a better receiving back, runner in between tackles, and arguably the best GL back in the league. If they turn this into a 60/40 split or 50/50 split they risk losing games they shouldn't lose imo.

 
Per Andy Reid Presser today (Wednesday):  

Spencer Ware won't practice today.  Has not passed concussion protocol.  Reid is not ruling him out for Sunday.
 
Sheesh, the way they're dealing with Smith makes me leery of how they'll deal with Ware.....The team doesn't think Smith has a concussion but he's not practicing and he won't start??

 
SCT said:
Sheesh, the way they're dealing with Smith makes me leery of how they'll deal with Ware.....The team doesn't think Smith has a concussion but he's not practicing and he won't start??
Click to expand...
Smith HAS/HAD a concussion.  They are doing the right thing even if they are SAYING all the wrong things re: Smith

Still, I think Ware sits EVEN if he passes the protocol because 1). It's the Jags 2) West is plenty good enough 3) the PR blowback they'd get (for OBVIOUSLY obfuscating on Smith should) if Ware got dinged again in this game would be immense

 
Morton Muffley said:
Smith HAS/HAD a concussion.  They are doing the right thing even if they are SAYING all the wrong things re: Smith

Still, I think Ware sits EVEN if he passes the protocol because 1). It's the Jags 2) West is plenty good enough 3) the PR blowback they'd get (for OBVIOUSLY obfuscating on Smith should) if Ware got dinged again in this game would be immense
Click to expand...
Good news is that Ware has some luxury of time (if only 3 days or so) to continue to improve and pass protocol.

Bad news is that I think you are spot on with the bolded part regardless.

 
As someone who has West handcuffed to him in every league, I'd definitely rather him just sit out this week and have West become the bellcow.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
As someone who has West handcuffed to him in every league, I'd definitely rather him just sit out this week and have West become the bellcow.
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As someone who doesn't have West handcuffed to him in any league, I want the same!

Come back healthy for the the end of the season and for the playoffs.  Plus, with all the buzz with JC lately, post 2016 season is becoming very important ...

 
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mnmplayer said:
so watched the game. The most concerning thing about Ware was his last run of the 1st quarter. He had an obvious big play there and put his head down and fell forward when he should have cut right. It might be because of the concussion that he missed this obvious cut., but he got hit hard again in the last minutes of the 1st half (actually looked like he fumbled on that play). 

Things I noticed about Charc ... He got the rock early so he was getting work before Ware went out in the 2nd half. It points to signs that the plan is he will resume the 40% snaps time share when both are healthy. Had two big plays called back from ticky tack fouls (18 yard rec and 33 yard run on one where he had 20 yards in the bank before the WR stupidly blocked a guy in the back downfield that wasn't needed). Foles also missed him on an easy pass TD. It could have been a good scoring game and Sharc looked good, cutting well. Should be a good spot start if he gets the opp.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for provifing this flavor around Charc's appearance.  Very helpful. :thumbup:

I didn't see all of it.  Did see the missed RB screen/flare from the 5 where he would've walked in with a decent pass.

 
need2know said:
Sounds like they want to see where he's at over the next 2 days.  it says something they went ahead and ruled smith out but think ware has a shot
Click to expand...
IMO they HAD to rule Smith out early to avoid the investigation into what happened on Sunday and him NOT being in the concussion protocol.  This was the right thing to do AND gives them some PR cover.  That is, can you imagine all the questions they'd be getting about Smith right now re: what happened on Sunday if he were NOT already ruled out.  So because Ware was in the concussion protocol they can just let that process take it's course.  A luxury they did NOT have with Smith because they initially lied about his injury.  Maybe this will be a lesson to other teams that they need to be transparent from the beginning because to not do so means they face a bigger risk (i.e. PR or loss of playing time that under other circumstances would not have been lost - i.e. see D. Adams)

 
Buck Bradcanon said:
Thank you very much for provifing this flavor around Charc's appearance.  Very helpful. :thumbup:

I didn't see all of it.  Did see the missed RB screen/flare from the 5 where he would've walked in with a decent pass.
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Thanks, I try to contribute where I can. Another thing I got from watching the IND game was the snap distribution in the first half, before Ware was ruled out to give us some hints of the distribution when both are healthy. You can't get this from the box score or the snap totals for the game as the 2nd half is skewed in West's favor. 27/13 in favor of Ware 67.5% / 32.5% split. One play they were both on the field. So this is in pretty much in line with the first couple weeks of snap %. It's probably somewhere between 60/40 and 70/30 going forward, as long as nothing crazy happens.

 
Foles is starting at qb week 9 and possibly week 10. The local  radio ,810 am, said this morning if Foles does well they thought Reid would lean toward resting his starting Qb for an extra week and would need him healthy to beat Carolina. 

Not sure if that plays into any decision making with West/Ware but thought I'd throw out what they said. 

 
I'm aboard guys. I think I bought low with him potentially being out.  Sent Gio Bernard and Moncrief in a short bench 12 team league.  Q-R-W-T-F-F-K-D - 4 bench.  PPR.   If Foles plays well and earns another start or two will this hinder Ware's pass receptions? How much do we anticipate West being involved.  Ware a 20 touch guy weekly?  FBG's has him ranked as the 10th best flex in the Top 200 forward with 0 for this week.

 
Gottabesweet said:
I'm aboard guys. I think I bought low with him potentially being out.  Sent Gio Bernard and Moncrief in a short bench 12 team league.  Q-R-W-T-F-F-K-D - 4 bench.  PPR.   If Foles plays well and earns another start or two will this hinder Ware's pass receptions? How much do we anticipate West being involved.  Ware a 20 touch guy weekly?  FBG's has him ranked as the 10th best flex in the Top 200 forward with 0 for this week.
Click to expand...
I don't think the qb matters to ware's production

 
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