Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education (1 Viewer)

[bigbottom]

It’s Cal Berkeley, I expect idiocy.

But were you expecting @ekbeats to carefully edit the story, replacing white with black, in the apparent hope of trapping people into posting condemnations and then making the “big reveal” later on?

So silly.

What’s the trap? The policy is condemnable regardless. Frankly I’m surprised that this doesn’t run afoul of the California Fair Housing rules, particularly given that this is a private landlord unaffiliated with the school.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

Yeah, right, that's all you did and it was completely inconsequential. SMH.

If I started a thread and did a stunt like that substituting crucial words to make the thread misleading in the OP and thread title, I am sure the mods would give me a lengthy time out, even though I later claimed it was just a "little thought experiment."

Always the victim

You don’t have to be. Pick a topic, discuss your views on it for once. Stop whining about other posters.

I responded to a post. Stop worrying about me. Go back to finding another false claim of racism or whatever it is you like to do

 

[FairWarning]

It’s Cal Berkeley, I expect idiocy.

But were you expecting @ekbeats to carefully edit the story, replacing white with black, in the apparent hope of trapping people into posting condemnations and then making the “big reveal” later on?

So silly.

Don’t overthink it, I wasn’t.

 

[(HULK)]

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

This is like a frat house. Aren't those places non-inclusive by design?

How does this effect you at all personally? Why take any interest in this story?

This reasoning is so f'n stupid. Are you serious with this absurd take?

Why do you care? You really going to offer up that excuse considering the lunacy your side partakes in over issues they have no skin in the game with? With all the Virtue Signaling you guys do? if ekbeats link edits were real and not flip-flopped you and other posters in here would be losing your s###. GTHO with that take.

We should all be concerned that this type of hate is happening on a public university funded by taxpayers.

My take is that should be free to do as they please. You feel some authority should tell them how to run their house?


It's a co-op. The house is privately owned. I'm not sure what tax money of yours they'd be getting.

I'm a liberal, but this is just one of those things that the best thing we can say is "yes, this is racist and stupid".

Speaking of privately owned, from what I gathered from the article, the private owner of the property that's also head of this organization said this is not part of their official policy. Seems to be just sort of a thing requested by somebody that lives there (or multiple somebody's). Assuming somebody that's some sort of authority figure in this house.

These people are, of course, absolute idiots. As were the authority figures in my college fraternity housing (rich 20 year olds that shot bottle rockets at me in my sleep).

The only thing I find interesting about this is the being triggered by white people because of exposure to white violence. White folks are absolutely violent. Just look at 99% of school shootings, mass murderers, and people that attack our government buildings.

But that's a thing I'd never heard of. I guess it's not much different than a battered women's shelter not wanting men around.

But it's all a form of racism and prejudice. It's never any good when we condemn an entire group for the actions of some bad actors in that group. It's simpler for our minds, but it's obviously very harmful.

Anyway, I've had a few cold pops. I'm liberal as hell. It's fine to try to understand and empathize, but any sort of defense of this isn't doing anybody any good.

This reminds me of a completely unrelated incident at my college. My house and the house across the street were engaged in a bottle rocket battle. The fraternity house across the street, their roof caught fire mid battle. I saw and so I ran out into the street yelling that their roof was on fire, but one of my a-hole brothers had also seen it and was blasting "the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire" over the speaker system we'd had set up in our front yard. So, I'm in the middle of the street, rockets wizzing by from both directions going, "No, really, it's on fire!" Over and over. Eventually they figured it out and we went and put it out with minimal damage.

I miss college.

 

[(HULK)]

It’s Cal Berkeley, I expect idiocy.

But were you expecting @ekbeats to carefully edit the story, replacing white with black, in the apparent hope of trapping people into posting condemnations and then making the “big reveal” later on?

So silly.

What’s the trap? The policy is condemnable regardless. Frankly I’m surprised that this doesn’t run afoul of the California Fair Housing rules, particularly given that this is a private landlord unaffiliated with the school.

I'm near certain it does.

Nothing will happen until someone sues them though. And I imagine the person who does will be a troll of some kind.

 

[sho nuff]

The tact was bad, but ek's point still stands. This kind of stuff would be vomited on if the races were reversed. The universal response should be it's ****ty behavior that no one condones. End of sentence.

Of course...the discrimination is awful.
But this does happen with the races reversed...all over the place. It happens in pricing/appraisals and rent costs and so on.
It should not be condoned in any way. But acting as if the reverse is not really a problem anymore...than bringing up stories (which are likely in the minority statistically to the reverse...) seems to be a way of saying...see, it happens the other way too. (but ignoring how much worse it is for people of color overall still).

 

[ekbeats]

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

This is like a frat house. Aren't those places non-inclusive by design?

How does this effect you at all personally? Why take any interest in this story?

This reasoning is so f'n stupid. Are you serious with this absurd take?

Why do you care? You really going to offer up that excuse considering the lunacy your side partakes in over issues they have no skin in the game with? With all the Virtue Signaling you guys do? if ekbeats link edits were real and not flip-flopped you and other posters in here would be losing your s###. GTHO with that take.

We should all be concerned that this type of hate is happening on a public university funded by taxpayers.

My take is that should be free to do as they please. You feel some authority should tell them how to run their house?


It's a co-op. The house is privately owned. I'm not sure what tax money of yours they'd be getting.

I'm a liberal, but this is just one of those things that the best thing we can say is "yes, this is racist and stupid".

Speaking of privately owned, from what I gathered from the article, the private owner of the property that's also head of this organization said this is not part of their official policy. Seems to be just sort of a thing requested by somebody that lives there (or multiple somebody's). Assuming somebody that's some sort of authority figure in this house.

These people are, of course, absolute idiots. As were the authority figures in my college fraternity housing (rich 20 year olds that shot bottle rockets at me in my sleep).

The only thing I find interesting about this is the being triggered by white people because of exposure to white violence. White folks are absolutely violent. Just look at 99% of school shootings, mass murderers, and people that attack our government buildings.

But that's a thing I'd never heard of. I guess it's not much different than a battered women's shelter not wanting men around.

But it's all a form of racism and prejudice. It's never any good when we condemn an entire group for the actions of some bad actors in that group. It's simpler for our minds, but it's obviously very harmful.

Anyway, I've had a few cold pops. I'm liberal as hell. It's fine to try to understand and empathize, but any sort of defense of this isn't doing anybody any good.

Sure, it's not a good look. Then you see where it is and kind of just roll your eyes. Starting threads like it's indicative of a wider trend or actual threat gets eye rolls from me. Especially with the roll this fool been on lately.


In contrast, at CPAC a few weeks ago they ran a banner across the stage with the slogan "We are all domestic terrorists" and noone ran to start a thread to hand wringle about that.

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

Yeah, right, that's all you did and it was completely inconsequential. SMH.

If I started a thread and did a stunt like that substituting crucial words to make the thread misleading in the OP and thread title, I am sure the mods would give me a lengthy time out, even though I later claimed it was just a "little thought experiment."

Always the victim

You can’t be serious. Being a victim is why OP started the thread. It’s more than half of the party of trumps platform. Illegals taking our jobs. Elites don’t care about us. Our “way of life” is being lost. People don’t tolerate religions like that used to…

I could go on.

I already said why I started this thread - because I feel that identity politics and discrimination is only serving to damage race relations.

 

[FairWarning]

The tact was bad, but ek's point still stands. This kind of stuff would be vomited on if the races were reversed. The universal response should be it's ****ty behavior that no one condones. End of sentence.

Of course...the discrimination is awful.
But this does happen with the races reversed...all over the place. It happens in pricing/appraisals and rent costs and so on.
It should not be condoned in any way. But acting as if the reverse is not really a problem anymore...than bringing up stories (which are likely in the minority statistically to the reverse...) seems to be a way of saying...see, it happens the other way too. (but ignoring how much worse it is for people of color overall still).

I don’t know how much is race (I’m sure there is some) and how much is predatory tactics by these companies, credit bureaus also. I just paid off everything I owed and these services are sllllllow on these changes. I’m sure many have errors on there that could affect their scores - and pay more for rent or a higher interest rate. It’s basically the financial version of driving with a broken tail light. High schools could really help kids with financial skills. It’s not the perfect solution here, but it bridges some of that gap in the NYT article. I’m surprised there hasn’t been a lawsuit brought against these financial institutions.

 

[GoBirds]

You reversed the races to try and shock people. That’s why you didn’t offer a link. It’s actually a black housing group banning whites.

Wait, so you are ok with this then? Wow.

 

[GoBirds]

It’s Cal Berkeley, I expect idiocy.

But were you expecting @ekbeats to carefully edit the story, replacing white with black, in the apparent hope of trapping people into posting condemnations and then making the “big reveal” later on?

So silly.

You are just relieved you got here in time to hide the hypocrisy of your side. Well done?

 

[ekbeats]

You reversed the races to try and shock people. That’s why you didn’t offer a link. It’s actually a black housing group banning whites.

Wait, so you are ok with this then? Wow.

Yes, Tim’s ok with this. He said so very clearly.

They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me.

 

[ekbeats]

My thought experiment went almost exactly as expected. It drew anger and personal insults from the usual folks, a little bit more than necessary imo. But on the positive side, it was great to hear @Captain Cranks and @sho nuff condemn the discrimination. Kudos to you guys.

 

[Captain Cranks]

But on the positive side, it was great to hear @Captain Cranks and @sho nuff condemn the discrimination. Kudos to you guys.

I appreciate the kudos but this one seems like a no-brainer. I don't understand Tim's position. Based on his premise, Augusta National should still be all white.

 

[GoBirds]

You reversed the races to try and shock people. That’s why you didn’t offer a link. It’s actually a black housing group banning whites.

Wait, so you are ok with this then? Wow.

Yes, Tim’s ok with this. He said so very clearly.

They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me.

Speaks volumes about him, I guess nothings shocking these days though.

 

[timschochet]

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

Yeah, right, that's all you did and it was completely inconsequential. SMH.

If I started a thread and did a stunt like that substituting crucial words to make the thread misleading in the OP and thread title, I am sure the mods would give me a lengthy time out, even though I later claimed it was just a "little thought experiment."

Always the victim

You don’t have to be. Pick a topic, discuss your views on it for once. Stop whining about other posters.

I

 

[timschochet]

You reversed the races to try and shock people. That’s why you didn’t offer a link. It’s actually a black housing group banning whites.

Wait, so you are ok with this then? Wow.

Yes, Tim’s ok with this. He said so very clearly.

They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me.

I also wrote that it was idiotic and extremist. But if a small group of people want to behave in such an idiotic fashion, I don’t care.

 

[timschochet]

You reversed the races to try and shock people. That’s why you didn’t offer a link. It’s actually a black housing group banning whites.

Wait, so you are ok with this then? Wow.

Yes, Tim’s ok with this. He said so very clearly.

They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me.

Speaks volumes about him, I guess nothings shocking these days though.

The fact that you would either take his word for it, or deliberately choose to misrepresent what I wrote, speaks volumes about YOU not me,

 

[timschochet]

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

This is like a frat house. Aren't those places non-inclusive by design?

How does this effect you at all personally? Why take any interest in this story?

This reasoning is so f'n stupid. Are you serious with this absurd take?

Why do you care? You really going to offer up that excuse considering the lunacy your side partakes in over issues they have no skin in the game with? With all the Virtue Signaling you guys do? if ekbeats link edits were real and not flip-flopped you and other posters in here would be losing your s###. GTHO with that take.

We should all be concerned that this type of hate is happening on a public university funded by taxpayers.

My take is that should be free to do as they please. You feel some authority should tell them how to run their house?


It's a co-op. The house is privately owned. I'm not sure what tax money of yours they'd be getting.

I'm a liberal, but this is just one of those things that the best thing we can say is "yes, this is racist and stupid".

Speaking of privately owned, from what I gathered from the article, the private owner of the property that's also head of this organization said this is not part of their official policy. Seems to be just sort of a thing requested by somebody that lives there (or multiple somebody's). Assuming somebody that's some sort of authority figure in this house.

These people are, of course, absolute idiots. As were the authority figures in my college fraternity housing (rich 20 year olds that shot bottle rockets at me in my sleep).

The only thing I find interesting about this is the being triggered by white people because of exposure to white violence. White folks are absolutely violent. Just look at 99% of school shootings, mass murderers, and people that attack our government buildings.

But that's a thing I'd never heard of. I guess it's not much different than a battered women's shelter not wanting men around.

But it's all a form of racism and prejudice. It's never any good when we condemn an entire group for the actions of some bad actors in that group. It's simpler for our minds, but it's obviously very harmful.

Anyway, I've had a few cold pops. I'm liberal as hell. It's fine to try to understand and empathize, but any sort of defense of this isn't doing anybody any good.

Sure, it's not a good look. Then you see where it is and kind of just roll your eyes. Starting threads like it's indicative of a wider trend or actual threat gets eye rolls from me. Especially with the roll this fool been on lately.


In contrast, at CPAC a few weeks ago they ran a banner across the stage with the slogan "We are all domestic terrorists" and noone ran to start a thread to hand wringle about that.

If you’re going to make a point about black extremism why not just make it? It’s going to be a silly point, though.

Well because I’ve tried to make the point using other forms of logic but nothing seems to work. So I decided to try a little thought experiment. Keep in mind, all I did hear was substitute the word black for white.

So my question is. What is the goal here? It’s clearly not desegregation which by the way as what Martin Luther King in the civil rights activists of the 60s fought for. Does it improve racial relations? Please help me understand.

Yeah, right, that's all you did and it was completely inconsequential. SMH.

If I started a thread and did a stunt like that substituting crucial words to make the thread misleading in the OP and thread title, I am sure the mods would give me a lengthy time out, even though I later claimed it was just a "little thought experiment."

Always the victim

You can’t be serious. Being a victim is why OP started the thread. It’s more than half of the party of trumps platform. Illegals taking our jobs. Elites don’t care about us. Our “way of life” is being lost. People don’t tolerate religions like that used to…

I could go on.

I already said why I started this thread - because I feel that identity politics and discrimination is only serving to damage race relations.

You act like this is something new. Conservatives have been arguing that identity politics damage race relations for 50 years. Liberals disagree. It’s one of the most fundamental disagreements between the two sides.

 

[the rover]

I don’t support this type of activity. It’s segregationist. I support looking past color. It seems to me that most people seem to agree with that, no matter which politicians or ideologies they support otherwise.

There was no reason to approach the topic this way. We’re adults. Just say what the facts are and let the discussion unfold. My take would be the same, personally.

Glad to hear you say that.

I’ve always founds you to be a thoughtful poster. As for my tactics… what the hell… Why not make things interesting?

several people have told you it's a bad look. do you want to be considered as a racist troll?

 

[Stealthycat]

its racism, pure and simple .. it promotes inequality, unfairness and segregation

 

[BladeRunner]

I don’t support this type of activity. It’s segregationist. I support looking past color. It seems to me that most people seem to agree with that, no matter which politicians or ideologies they support otherwise.

There was no reason to approach the topic this way. We’re adults. Just say what the facts are and let the discussion unfold. My take would be the same, personally.

Glad to hear you say that.

I’ve always founds you to be a thoughtful poster. As for my tactics… what the hell… Why not make things interesting?

several people have told you it's a bad look. do you want to be considered as a racist troll?

More than several posters over the years have told you that your posts are a bad look. Yet, here you are, still making the same posts and still calling people racists because that's the go-to word for people you disagree with.

I think it's pretty clear what he was getting at but you guys want to focus on presentation.

 

[ekbeats]

I don’t support this type of activity. It’s segregationist. I support looking past color. It seems to me that most people seem to agree with that, no matter which politicians or ideologies they support otherwise.

There was no reason to approach the topic this way. We’re adults. Just say what the facts are and let the discussion unfold. My take would be the same, personally.

Glad to hear you say that.

I’ve always founds you to be a thoughtful poster. As for my tactics… what the hell… Why not make things interesting?

several people have told you it's a bad look. do you want to be considered as a racist troll?

Oh please. My "experiment" here was benign and clearly understood as parody, designed to show just how ridiculous racism is, even when it it is comes from black side. And can you knock it off with the personal insults? Thus far you and @cockroach have insinuated or flat out called me a fool, super-suspect, and now a racist troll. I've done nothing in here to warrant that. Go bad and read my posts - they are all polite, engaging, and focused on the issue. In all seriousness, I don't know where your anger and hate is coming from, but THAT is what the real "bad look" is in here.

 

[bigbottom]

Second, why should you need to understand what these folks are doing? They’re a tiny bunch of crazy idiots. They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me. Why should I care? Why do you care?

1) Because it's likely unlawful.
2) Because it's discriminatory/racist.
3) Because it's wrong and unjust, and should be condemned.
4) Because it's not a tiny residence. It's private student housing for 56 residents.
5) Also, your characterization of "a few crazy extremist black separatists" seems very off base. The co-op welcomes residents and guests of all colors - except white people. Let's not make this a black/white thing. What if there was private student housing that banned only Arab residents and guests? It would be disgusting, just like this is.

Put simply, given your historical posts here, this is something you should care about. I do.

 

[ekbeats]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

 

[bigbottom]

I don’t support this type of activity. It’s segregationist. I support looking past color. It seems to me that most people seem to agree with that, no matter which politicians or ideologies they support otherwise.

There was no reason to approach the topic this way. We’re adults. Just say what the facts are and let the discussion unfold. My take would be the same, personally.

Glad to hear you say that.

I’ve always founds you to be a thoughtful poster. As for my tactics… what the hell… Why not make things interesting?

several people have told you it's a bad look. do you want to be considered as a racist troll?

Oh please. My "experiment" here was benign and clearly understood as parody, designed to show just how ridiculous racism is, even when it it is comes from black side. And can you knock it off with the personal insults? Thus far you have insinuated or flat out called me a fool, super-suspect, and now a racist troll. I've done nothing in here to warrant that. Go bad and read my posts - they are all polite, engaging, and focused on the issue. In all seriousness, I don't know where your anger and hate is coming from, but THAT is what the real "bad look" is in here.

I think you and others are off base making this something from the "black side."

 

[timschochet]

Second, why should you need to understand what these folks are doing? They’re a tiny bunch of crazy idiots. They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me. Why should I care? Why do you care?

1) Because it's likely unlawful.
2) Because it's discriminatory/racist.
3) Because it's wrong and unjust, and should be condemned.
4) Because it's not a tiny residence. It's private student housing for 56 residents.
5) Also, your characterization of "a few crazy extremist black separatists" seems very off base. The co-op welcomes residents and guests of all colors - except white people. Let's not make this a black/white thing. What if there was private student housing that banned only Arab residents and guests? It would be disgusting, just like this is.

Put simply, given your historical posts here, this is something you should care about. I do.

First off I think it’s safe to characterize student housing with 56 residents as tiny. Especially in a campus as large as UC Berkeley. And it’s private.

Second, context. You’re probably right that it’s illegal. You’re definitely right that it should be condemned. By the local community. Should it be brought to the attention of a political forum that discusses national issues? Only if you’re one of those who believe that “reverse racism” is a big problem in this country. I am not. I think it’s a fabricated issue that is designed to argue against affirmative action and other programs which really have helped minorities greatly. I think people looking to be outraged seek out these stories so that they can rail against the liberal ideas which they believe, falsely, to be the cause of this extremism (rather than the real cause, which is decades long mistreatment by the white people these blacks are now trying to mistreat themselves.)

And that’s why I don’t care.

 

[Stealthycat]

Only if you’re one of those who believe that “reverse racism” is a big problem in this country

its not reverse anything



racism

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

 

[ekbeats]

First off I think it’s safe to characterize student housing with 56 residents as tiny. Especially in a campus as large as UC Berkeley. And it’s private.

Second, context. You’re probably right that it’s illegal. You’re definitely right that it should be condemned. By the local community. Should it be brought to the attention of a political forum that discusses national issues? Only if you’re one of those who believe that “reverse racism” is a big problem in this country. I am not. I think it’s a fabricated issue that is designed to argue against affirmative action and other programs which really have helped minorities greatly. I think people looking to be outraged seek out these stories so that they can rail against the liberal ideas which they believe, falsely, to be the cause of this extremism (rather than the real cause, which is decades long mistreatment by the white people these blacks are now trying to mistreat themselves.)

And that’s why I don’t care.

This issue is much broader than 56 residents at one University. Per the study I linked to a few posts above (written by a black man I might add), almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies. The conclusion of the study is that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive, and that it is harmful to ALL students - black and white.

But to hell with facts and figures. Tim knows in his gut that this is a "tiny" issue being fabricated by racist Conservatives.

 

[timschochet]

First off I think it’s safe to characterize student housing with 56 residents as tiny. Especially in a campus as large as UC Berkeley. And it’s private.

Second, context. You’re probably right that it’s illegal. You’re definitely right that it should be condemned. By the local community. Should it be brought to the attention of a political forum that discusses national issues? Only if you’re one of those who believe that “reverse racism” is a big problem in this country. I am not. I think it’s a fabricated issue that is designed to argue against affirmative action and other programs which really have helped minorities greatly. I think people looking to be outraged seek out these stories so that they can rail against the liberal ideas which they believe, falsely, to be the cause of this extremism (rather than the real cause, which is decades long mistreatment by the white people these blacks are now trying to mistreat themselves.)

And that’s why I don’t care.

This issue is much broader than 56 residents at one University. Per the study I linked to a few posts above (written by a black man I might add), almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies. The conclusion of the study is that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive, and that it is harmful to ALL students - black and white.

But to hell with facts and figures. Tim knows in his gut that this is a "tiny" issue being fabricated by racist Conservatives.

I never wrote “racist conservatives”. I do not believe that. Please don’t misquote me.

 

[ekbeats]

I think you and others are off base making this something from the "black side."

On this particular issue - overt racial segregation on college campuses - I'm not aware of any "white" programs or residences. But yes, your point is a good one that it could apply to any other marginalized racial group (Latinx, Asian, etc.) and those do exist as well. My thought on that would be the same - I don't approve of it. One of the most important experiences in going to college is being exposed different people, races, and ideas.

 

[ekbeats]

I never wrote “racist conservatives”. I do not believe that. Please don’t misquote me.

Tell you what - I'll stop mischaracterizing your quotes when you stop mischaracterizing my motives.

 

[timschochet]

I never wrote “racist conservatives”. I do not believe that. Please don’t misquote me.

Tell you what - I'll stop mischaracterizing your quotes when you stop mischaracterizing my motives.

Sorry- how did I do that?

 

[BladeRunner]

I don’t support this type of activity. It’s segregationist. I support looking past color. It seems to me that most people seem to agree with that, no matter which politicians or ideologies they support otherwise.

There was no reason to approach the topic this way. We’re adults. Just say what the facts are and let the discussion unfold. My take would be the same, personally.

Glad to hear you say that.

I’ve always founds you to be a thoughtful poster. As for my tactics… what the hell… Why not make things interesting?

several people have told you it's a bad look. do you want to be considered as a racist troll?

Oh please. My "experiment" here was benign and clearly understood as parody, designed to show just how ridiculous racism is, even when it it is comes from black side. And can you knock it off with the personal insults? Thus far you and @cockroach have insinuated or flat out called me a fool, super-suspect, and now a racist troll. I've done nothing in here to warrant that. Go bad and read my posts - they are all polite, engaging, and focused on the issue. In all seriousness, I don't know where your anger and hate is coming from, but THAT is what the real "bad look" is in here.

That's SOP for a few posters in here.

Like I posted previously, the obsession with presentation in lieu of the actual argument is just another form of Virtue-Signaling. All to let everyone know in their tribe that they are still loyal and have not wavered. It's also used to distract from the argument.

We all understood what you were trying to get across. Keep it up. You're doing good work in here.

 

[squistion]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

 

[BladeRunner]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

 

[cockroach]

The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

LMFAO, what?!?!?

I've gotta hear this "music that accompanies segregation".

 

[squistion]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

 

[Rubiobot]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

There is an ignore feature you can use.

 

[squistion]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

There is an ignore feature you can use.

I still see it when other people quote it.

 

[Rubiobot]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

There is an ignore feature you can use.

I still see it when other people quote it.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think this is true on this new message board.

 

[timschochet]

The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

LMFAO, what?!?!?

I've gotta hear this "music that accompanies segregation".

I wish I was in Dixie, hurrah!

 

[ekbeats]

Things in this thread that are of more concern than discussing segregation on college campuses:
1) The parody approach used in the OP.
2) The discrediting of the group that commissioned the study, even though the study was conducted and drafted by a black man.
3) Why the OP cares about the issue.
4) Insults and how to use the ignore feature.

This place really has taken a dramatic turn for the worse.

 

[timschochet]

Things in this thread that are of more concern than discussing segregation on college campuses:
1) The parody used in the OP
2) The discrediting of the group that commissioned the study, even though the study was conducted and drafted by a black man.
3) Why the OP cares about the issue.
4) How to use the ignore feature.

This place really has taken a dramatic turn for the worse.

You are correct. All of the issues you listed are of way more concern than segregation on college campuses. Considerably more, since the latter isn’t a real issue at all.

 

[ekbeats]

You are correct. All of the issues you listed are of way more concern than segregation on college campuses. Considerably more, since the latter isn’t a real issue at all.

Isn't a real issue how? Originally you said that it wasn't an issue because it was infrequent, which is factually incorrect in that 43% of colleges offer racially segregated residential arrangements; and 72% have racially segregated graduation ceremonies. So if it's not frequency, I am left to assume you mean it's not an issue because it doesn't cause any harm. If you read the study, which I am sure you didn't, you'd see a thoughtful and fact based analysis, and the history behind how and why it evolved. I thought you liked history? Or is that only when it fits your worldview?

 

[Captain Cranks]

I've gotta hear this "music that accompanies segregation".

What? You haven't heard the new segregation soundtrack? It's tight.

 

[ekbeats]

This is from the Conclusion section of the study. It recaps some of the interesting history behind "How did we get here?", and also teases out my earlier question that no one has opined on, "What/When is the end game?"

This path began when some of the black students in 1967 formed the Black Students Alliance at Yale (BSAY). BSAY’s founders felt—perhaps understandably—that Yale was an unfriendly place for them. They found camaraderie in gathering together, but they also tapped into a tradition in the larger black community. That was the tradition of black groups that embraced and celebrated their own insularity. Such groups found in racial separateness an appealing answer to the pervasive racism in mainstream society. These self-segregating factions often insisted that white America could never be redeemed from its racist attitudes and practices. Reformation was, in this view, an illusory goal. The better answer to a racist society was black autonomy.

From its beginning, BSAY indulged in rhetorical forays into this anti-integrationist tradition. Its founders insisted that for Yale to make serious progress in attracting and retaining black students, the university would have to make more room for exclusively black programs and activities. Yale conceded—not in the spirit that it was giving up on its integrationist ideal, but because it was persuaded that black exclusivity would be a temporary step. At some point, this ladder would be kicked away, and Yale would at that point be fully and tranquilly integrated.

That never happened. Rather, BSAY and Yale became locked in a pattern of escalating demands met with increasing concessions. We have traced these through the creation of the African American Studies Program, the Black Panthers debacle, the creation of racially separate orientation programs, separate ethnic counselors, the “House” system of Cultural Centers, and the vigorous programming of the Cultural Centers. BSAY and the African American Cultural Center promoted not only racial separatism but also anti-Semitism and a general attitude of resentment towards other minorities and whites.

By 2015, when Professor Christakis was mobbed by a group of some 100 students, most of whom were black, accusing him of racism, Yale had become a place where the old ideal of racial integration was derided as itself a form of white racial oppression. This had been a long time coming. In 2005, Woody Brittain, Yale class of 1970 and one of the founders of BSAY, said in the Yale Alumni Magazine:

"We want to counteract the natural tendency toward too much balkanization. People like to retreat to their comfort zone—but one of the great values of a place like Yale is to get people outside their comfort zones, forming friendships and working together. The Afro-American Cultural Center should be a leader in this effort. African Americans are the group that is most often accused of self-segregation. It is very powerful for this group to take the lead in reaching out. And more than that, the House has always been a place where issues of diversity are freely raised and freely discussed. We have the experience of what it means to be diverse."

Brittain went on to extol the “the debates of several decades ago between William F. Buckley, Jr. and William Sloane Coffin” as part of the Yale he would like to see restored. “We want to bring some of that magic back.”681

Brittain, as a one-time organizer and promoter of the racially separatist BSAY, reimagines the group’s history and wishes for something better than what actually came of it. His good intentions are unmistakable but his expressions are temporizing. What is “too much” balkanization? Is there a level of balkanization that is just right? Since when did BSAY stand for getting people of diverse backgrounds to form friendships and work together? Some African Americans do practice “self-segregation,” but the Yale community is hardly a place where that is an “accusation.” More often it is extolled as a matter of pride.

But Brittain’s statement, even if hedged, was a welcome call for BSAY and Yale to rise above ethnic division. It went unheeded. Yale today is more segregated than at any point in the last half century. Just as the university’s leaders saw in the early 1960s, racial segregation is a blight on a Yale education and a detriment to America. Yale’s efforts to escape that situation have, in far too many cases, only made it worse.

 

[BladeRunner]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

I called your nonsense stupid, not you. Lighten up, Francis. This is at least the 2nd or 3rd time you had a hard time understanding words and/or phrases or twisted them to mean something other than what was intended so you could feign some fake outrage again and gain martyr status. No one is buying it so save the drama for your mama.

And if you don't think your constant source cop posts are insulting, then you better put yourself on ignore too. You're a broken record at this point.

We get it - you don't want facts and logic. You want The Bubble with it's safe, soft, cushiony comfort.

 

[BladeRunner]

Things in this thread that are of more concern than discussing segregation on college campuses:
1) The parody used in the OP
2) The discrediting of the group that commissioned the study, even though the study was conducted and drafted by a black man.
3) Why the OP cares about the issue.
4) How to use the ignore feature.

This place really has taken a dramatic turn for the worse.

You are correct. All of the issues you listed are of way more concern than segregation on college campuses. Considerably more, since the latter isn’t a real issue at all.

This is how bad people and policies happen: people pretend they don't exist and aren't really happening. When they do, it's usually too late.

 

[the rover]

is your next fishing trip going to be about female-only dorms?

 

[timschochet]

You are correct. All of the issues you listed are of way more concern than segregation on college campuses. Considerably more, since the latter isn’t a real issue at all.

Isn't a real issue how? Originally you said that it wasn't an issue because it was infrequent, which is factually incorrect in that 43% of colleges offer racially segregated residential arrangements; and 72% have racially segregated graduation ceremonies. So if it's not frequency, I am left to assume you mean it's not an issue because it doesn't cause any harm. If you read the study, which I am sure you didn't, you'd see a thoughtful and fact based analysis, and the history behind how and why it evolved. I thought you liked history? Or is that only when it fits your worldview?

Well first off you’re conflating issues. Minorities who choose to segregate themselves is not the same thing as the subject matter of your falsely edited OP, in which white people were told they are not welcome to visit. THAT, I maintain, is infrequent- extremely so.

Voluntary segregation is not infrequent. But it’s also not a real problem. It would be a real problem if whites chose to do it, but it’s perfectly understandable when minorities choose to do so- they’re the ones, after all, who have been mistreated all this time, and who are still victims of widespread institutional racism even today. So they choose to stick together. Do I love it? Not really. Is it a huge problem in our society? Not really. Most of these people grow out of it when they leave college and realize that this sort of segregation really isn’t sustainable in real life.

Drug use, violence, lack of education, poverty: these are the issues that plague communities of color in this country. The ones who make it to college are the lucky ones, the elites. We don’t have to worry about them no matter how radicalized they pretend to themselves to be during their undergraduate years. You need to stop worrying about them, they’ll be fine.