If I was just in the title game then my team is probably in good enough shape for me to justify prioritizing future years with my draft picks, rather than what's right in front of me. His year one role may compare with other rookies, but I don't think he's good enough to build on that in year two. I could go either way on him vs AJ Dillon, but the market place appears to be making that decision for me. I'll pick WR's when others are considering Vaughn. Maybe I'll get Dillon or McFarland later.I don’t see him falling past contenders in the late first. If I just was in the championship game and hold 1.11 or 1.12, Vaughn is the perfect add.
How does stating that Vaughn is a 23 year old 3rd round RB “skip” any of that other stuff you’re hung up on. A 23 year old 3rd round RB actually seems a quite accurate descriptive for what Vaughn is, no?I'm seeing Matthew Freedman out here spewing trash like "don't draft a 3rd round 23 year old RB over a 1st round 21 year old WR." From the bland lazy analysis I guess this seems correct, but it skips the fact that Vaughn's sophomore year was a bust cuz Lovie Smith gonna Lovie Smith. Vaughn had a solid freshman year after being Mr Football in Tennessee. He then transferred from Illinois and lost another year. I'm not advocating taking Vaughn over the top notch WR's by any means, but someone should let him know that Vaughn only had 12 less receptions than Ruggs last year. I can't stand someone bashing a prospect with baseless analysis.
The point is that he very well could have been an early declare had he not transferred. If he stayed home and was with Vandy from the start he very easily could have been an early declare. Immediately writing him off because he's 23 is just ridiculous.How does stating that Vaughn is a 23 year old 3rd round RB “skip” any of that other stuff you’re hung up on. A 23 year old 3rd round RB actually seems a quite accurate descriptive for what Vaughn is, no?
There's lots of ways to try to rationalize things. What I am hearing is he had to transfer because the competition at Illinois was too much for him and because a long time NFL coach got an up close look at him and was unimpressed. I like Vaughn but I think him being 23 is a slight negative no matter what the facts surrounding it are.The point is that he very well could have been an early declare had he not transferred. If he stayed home and was with Vandy from the start he very easily could have been an early declare. Immediately writing him off because he's 23 is just ridiculous.
This.There's lots of ways to try to rationalize things. What I am hearing is he had to transfer because the competition at Illinois was too much for him and because a long time NFL coach got an up close look at him and was unimpressed. I like Vaughn but I think him being 23 is a slight negative no matter what the facts surrounding it are.
I don’t think advocating to take 21 year old WRs drafted in the first round over 23 year old RBs drafted in the third round is “immediately writing Vaughn off.” You seem offended by what is very likely to be sound, logical advice.The point is that he very well could have been an early declare had he not transferred. If he stayed home and was with Vandy from the start he very easily could have been an early declare. Immediately writing him off because he's 23 is just ridiculous.
It's more about Freedman's logic overall than any one individual RB. He is also advocating taking all the 1st round WR's except Aiyuk over every RB except CEH and Taylor based strictly off draft capital. I guess 1st round WR's never bust. Not to mention he's tweaking his narrative by saying Vaughn is 23 when he hasn't actually turned 23 yet.This.
I don’t think advocating to take 21 year old WRs drafted in the first round over 23 year old RBs drafted in the third round is “immediately writing Vaughn off.” You seem offended by what is very likely to be sound, logical advice.
The best way to draft rookies in fantasy is combine analytics with what you're reading from the evaluators, IMO.It's more about Freedman's logic overall than any one individual RB. He is also advocating taking all the 1st round WR's except Aiyuk over every RB except CEH and Taylor based strictly off draft capital. I guess 1st round WR's never bust.
And he’s a WR fanatic if I recall correctlyThe best way to draft rookies in fantasy is combine analytics with what you're reading from the evaluators, IMO.
When you go completely analytics, or completely blow them off, you are making a mistake. Freedman is analytics, completely.
My guess is 1st round WRs bust a lot less often than 3rd RBsIt's more about Freedman's logic overall than any one individual RB. He is also advocating taking all the 1st round WR's except Aiyuk over every RB except CEH and Taylor based strictly off draft capital. I guess 1st round WR's never bust. Not to mention he's tweaking his narrative by saying Vaughn is 23 when he hasn't actually turned 23 yet.
Of course. That being said, there is no context to it. I had no problem taking Kamara and Hunt over Mike Williams when they landed in KC and New Orleans. Landing in the right spot matters. It's why CEH just went from 5th to 1st on a lot of people's draft boards. Vaughn has a chance to explode in that offense within a division where defense is optional.My guess is 1st round WRs bust a lot less often than 3rd RBs
I’m mostly with you because I tend to side with RB vs WR in dynasty rookie drafts since I like to think of a short term window but I think if you just always take the young WR with 1st round capital over the old RB with 3rd round draft capital, you likely end up on the right end of it over the long term.Of course. That being said, there is no context to it. I had no problem taking Kamara and Hunt over Mike Williams when they landed in KC and New Orleans. Landing in the right spot matters. It's why CEH just went from 5th to 1st on a lot of people's draft boards. Vaughn has a chance to explode in that offense within a division where defense is optional.
Agreed. I was mostly annoyed with Freedman's lack of analysis. Don't even get me started on him saying Kerryon Johnson could be better than Swift because they were taken by the same team at a similar draft spot.I’m mostly with you because I tend to side with RB vs WR in dynasty rookie drafts since I like to think of a short term window but I think if you just always take the young WR with 1st round capital over the old RB with 3rd round draft capital, you likely end up on the right end of it over the long term.
I honestly used this exact logic in 2015 to draft Nelson Agholor over David Johnson at 1.11. No joke.This.
I don’t think advocating to take 21 year old WRs drafted in the first round over 23 year old RBs drafted in the third round is “immediately writing Vaughn off.” You seem offended by what is very likely to be sound, logical advice.
Neither list is particularly good, to be honest.My guess is 1st round WRs bust a lot less often than 3rd RBs
That is too small of a sample size to assess a conclusion.Neither list is particularly good, to be honest.
Marquise Brown
N'Keal Harry
DJ Moore
Calvin Ridley
Corey Davis
Mike Williams
John Ross
Corey Coleman
Will Fuller
Laquon Treadwell
Josh Docston
Amari Cooper
Kevin White
Devante Parker
Nelson Agholor
Breshad Perriman
Phillip Dorsett
Darrell Henderson
David Montgomery
Devin Singletary
Damien Harris
Alexander Mattison
Royce Freeman
Donta Foreman
James Conner
Alvin Kamara
Kareem Hunt
Kenyan Drake
CJ Prosise
Tevin Coleman
Duke Johnson
David Johnson
Matt Jones
I'm sure over time the WRs stand out, but I figured 5 years was pretty fair given that RBs are drafted very differently now (IE a 3rd round RB today is much different than a 3rd round RB 10 years ago since RBs are generally allowed to fall further in the draft now with the devaluing of the position).That is too small of a sample size to assess a conclusion.
Good point. It’s true as philosophies change, it alters the value of the data. However, 18 samples in each category is really small. I think the large pool of data about draft capital and age is probably the most helpful data set.I'm sure over time the WRs stand out, but I figured 5 years was pretty fair given that RBs are drafted very differently now (IE a 3rd round RB today is much different than a 3rd round RB 10 years ago since RBs are generally allowed to fall further in the draft now with the devaluing of the position).
Safeties Jeremy Chinn, Ashtyn Davis and Brandon Jones all went between the Bucs' selection of Winfield and the next time they were on the clock. Of course, so did running backs Cam Akers, J.K. Dobbins and A.J. Dillon, but running a draft is largely about estimating what will still be available from one round to the next and Licht's Buccaneers like the way the second day played out in regard to their needs. The Bucs wanted a running back who they thought could complement Ronald Jones and be a potential asset on all three downs, including sometimes splitting out and running routes like a wide receiver.
"By no stretch of the imagination am I going to say that we reached at all because he was sitting right there, right where we were picking and it just matched up with what felt like we needed, which was another running back to get in the mix with RoJo," said Licht. "RoJo, Dare [Ogunbowale], T.J. [Logan] – we feel like we've got a pretty good group right now.
"I think [Vaughn] is capable of playing on all three downs so you can't have too many good backs. You can't just rely on one good back. If you have a guy who can do multiple things, it makes him even more valuable to your team. We'll see how it goes. We have to get him here, and we'll get him in the mix and we'll see how it all shakes out. We're excited to have him, as well."
Brag forum is at the bottom.I took him at 1.11 in one of my PPR dynasty leagues, but RB was my only need coming into the draft. And I still have the 2.2 and 2.8 picks if I want to get more WR depth. And I'm definitely a contender so felt it made sense. Current Roster:
Lamar Jackson
Zeke, CEH, Taylor, Vaughn, Guice, Scott
Godwin, Evans, JuJu, McLaurin, Diontae Johnson, Samuel, Crowder, Isabella, Sims
Henry, Goedert, Ian Thomas
So with this roster I'm gonna justify spending that 1.11 pick on Vaughn
I wasn't bragging, I was just saying I could see where if some owners are set at WR, and have a need at RB, I can see the justification for taking him in the 1st. At least that's what I did here.Brag forum is at the bottom.
I think you overpaid regardless of your roster. You may have been able to trade down to take him much later.I wasn't bragging, I was just saying I could see where if some owners are set at WR, and have a need at RB, I can see the justification for taking him in the 1st. At least that's what I did here.
He's gone anywhere from 8 - 14 the five rookie drafts I've had. I wouldn't take him there myself, but it seems like 11 is a reasonable range for him to go.I think you overpaid regardless of your roster. You may have been able to trade down to take him much later.
i don’t think you’ll get 1st round value out of him, but he’s in a good offense & opportunity could strike with an injury to RoJo. Good lottery ticket to have.
Wow - that’s higher than I thought he’d be going. Seems his value has risen since last I checked.He has been consistently going in the last half of the 1st round of rookie drafts. You would not have had a good chance of getting him if you'd moved back.
As for whether he belongs in the last half of the 1st or not is a good question but his pricetag is late 1st. Early 2nd is about it.
In that light I agree both with the statement & the fact that I also would not take him there.He's gone anywhere from 8 - 14 the five rookie drafts I've had. I wouldn't take him there myself, but it seems like 11 is a reasonable range for him to go.
1.06? Did RoJo lose a foot in a bizarre tractor accident?1.11 twice, 1.12 (me), 1.08 and 1.09. All FFPC. My other "dynasty" rookie drafts disband after a 2020 jackpot season, so those drafts are more like redraft, but in those he went 1.06, 1.07x3, 1.08x2 and 1.09, 1.10.
Everyone in that range has vets ahead of them on the depth chart.In that light I agree both with the statement & the fact that I also would not take him there.
I agree with that. i think most do. he should (depending on how he shows at the pro level) have a role right away.There have been a lot of warm fuzzy articles lately, pointing out that with Brady being in a win now window, seems odd they would spend an early pick on a guy they were going to sit. Unlike GB with Rodgers, I think the goal was to get players to help them win now (Gronk, Vaughn, Wirfs) so I'm assuming he's going to be given every chance to play right away.
I see that as a great trade for you probably very reasonable value for Vaughn.As a RoJo owner I traded into the second (2.05, pick 17) to get Vaughn.
In order to get 2.05, I traded Christian Kirk and the 4.06.I see that as a great trade for you probably very reasonable value for Vaughn.
as a Rojo owner myself I may offer a WR4 type or an equal value-Ish RB to the team that drafts him (Duke Johnson-Ish?)
never hurts to have insurance.