RB Dalvin Cook, Free Agent (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

It's a division.

Yeah it didnt make sense.

I didnt either, I was still thinking about Boone against Chicago week 17. He did well in a difficult match up there. 

 

[Gandalf]

Just hold Cook. If they have offered $10 and he has said he would take $13, they are going to get this settled (11.5?). Then Mattison goes back to super cheap and you can handcuff. Don't jump off a cliff because Mattison is way over-priced for a few weeks. 

I just drafted Cook at 1.09 in a start up dynasty league. No way he goes that late without the holdout

 

[Tau837]

I just drafted Cook at 1.09 in a start up dynasty league. No way he goes that late without the holdout

No way he goes as 9th pick overall without the holdout? Disagree completely. I wouldn’t draft him that high, holdout or no holdout. 

 

[Gandalf]

No way he goes as 9th pick overall without the holdout? Disagree completely. I wouldn’t draft him that high, holdoutnor no holdout. 

Just because you wouldn’t does not mean I’m not correct. Both things could be true. Maybe you are much lower than the consensus? Or perhaps you are a Mattison true believer?

 

[Catbird]

Not that it proves anything, but with the holdout going on DFL still ranks Cook as overal pick #8 and rb #5. FBG dynast y rankings say exactly the same. They apparently think he is at least top 9 and clearly  don't take the holdout too seriously either.

 

[Biabreakable]

According to this Cooks ADP is 1.06

I love Dalvin Cook but this does seem risky,

For dynasty start up drafts I don't really want to start with the RB position at all. Especially one with the durability concerns that Cook has.

 

[Tau837]

Well, I must say I am very surprised by those ADPs and startup dynasty rankings. No way I would take him in the first round of a dynasty startup when I could have my pick of elite WRs.

It has nothing to do with a possible holdout; I don't think he will hold out for a single day based on the new CBA. It has to do with the relative value of the RB position in dynasty combined with his extensive injury history.

 

[Faust]

Game-By-Game Projections: Dalvin Cook (2020 Fantasy Football)

 

[Biabreakable]

Game-By-Game Projections: Dalvin Cook (2020 Fantasy Football)

Bottom line 15 games 241 touches 196 rushing attempts  872 yards 9 TD 45 receptions 443 yards 4 TD

Dalvin Cook career averages per game 19.4 touches  15.8 rushing attempts  72.6 yards .59 TD 3.6 receptions 31.5 yards .22 TD

So 291 touches 237 rushing attempts 1089 yards 8.85 TD 54 receptions 472 yards 1.03 TD

Those projections fall short of Dalvin Cooks career averages on a per game basis but are high in receiving TD

 

[Gandalf]

According to this Cooks ADP is 1.06

I love Dalvin Cook but this does seem risky,

For dynasty start up drafts I don't really want to start with the RB position at all. Especially one with the durability concerns that Cook has.

So we differ in our approach to team building. I tend to hammer RB early. Even in dynasty. 

 

[Tau837]

Guys, there is no holdout situation. He and his agent would be complete idiots for him to hold out under the new CBA. 

 

[I-ROK]

Guys, there is no holdout situation. He and his agent would be complete idiots for him to hold out under the new CBA. 

Except the new CBA hold out rules don’t apply to athletes on their rookie contract

 

[Biabreakable]

Except the new CBA hold out rules don’t apply to athletes on their rookie contract

Yes it does.

The only difference is their fines for missing days is slightly lower.

 

[Biabreakable]

So we differ in our approach to team building. I tend to hammer RB early. Even in dynasty. 

Yeah I have been going through the ADPand there has been a sea change occurring where the top 15 picks have shifted to mostly RB now whereas in 2018 for example there were only a few.

Lots of good RB have entered the league recently including Cook as the main reason.

I'm always tempted to zig when others zag. It's so RB heavy again though not sure if I can though.

I hate chasing runs.

 

[Twenty-Four Eighty-Four]

Yes it does.

The only difference is their fines for missing days is slightly lower.

As usual, I believe people are still trying to figure things out. One fantasy podcast I listened to talked to a couple agents who gave their take. One pointed out that Dalvin could miss 5 days of training camp before he would become a restricted free agent next year. It was also stated that players on their rookie contracts could have the fines for missing training camp days waived whereas veteran cannot.

 

[Tau837]

As usual, I believe people are still trying to figure things out. One fantasy podcast I listened to talked to a couple agents who gave their take. One pointed out that Dalvin could miss 5 days of training camp before he would become a restricted free agent next year. It was also stated that players on their rookie contracts could have the fines for missing training camp days waived whereas veteran cannot.

I linked the CBA a couple pages back and quoted a few of the relevant sections. 

The fines really don’t matter unless a player with less than 4 accrued seasons - like Cook - is willing to not report and be a RFA after the season rather than a UFA. I don’t see any reason why that would make sense. 

But if Cook went that route, he can not afford the fines, either, and they cannot be waived. 

 

[Biabreakable]

As usual, I believe people are still trying to figure things out. One fantasy podcast I listened to talked to a couple agents who gave their take. One pointed out that Dalvin could miss 5 days of training camp before he would become a restricted free agent next year. It was also stated that players on their rookie contracts could have the fines for missing training camp days waived whereas veteran cannot.

I don't claim to know all the ins and outs of the contract details.

What I do understand about it is that Cook has no leverage at all and I don't expect his agent threatening hold out has any impact on contract negotiations.

The Vikings have a history of giving rookie players a new contract on the last year of their deals if they have played well. I am sure the Vikings want to do that with Cook. However they are severly restricted by the salary cap right now and they do not have the money.

Everson Griffen still hasn't signed with another team and I am sure the Vikings would love to bring him back too.

Cooks agent and the Vikings front office are still several millions apart on a deal.

 

[Faust]

Vikings stars on opposite paths? Adam Thielen set to rebound, but Dalvin Cook could disappoint

Excerpt:

Dalvin Cook was RB5 last season. Going in the top seven in most drafts, is that about right, is there still room for more, or is he too expensive?

Dalton: Cook is both terrific and used as a true workhorse when on the field, but his health concerns are too great to spend a first-round fantasy pick. There’s a list of past injuries, including a chronically dislocated shoulder. It’s truly bizarre when Clyde Edwards-Helaire is considered a risky first-round fantasy pick while Cook is regularly going in the top-five, and we haven’t even begun to discuss him possibly holding out. I’ll be grabbing Mike Boone at the end of my fantasy drafts.

Matt: We know there’s holdout risk with Dalvin Cook now. That creates a big cloud of uncertainty around what would have otherwise been a really appealing fantasy outlook. I don’t think there’s any value in speculating how he’ll approach the holdout either. He could skip a season, several games, show up right before Week 1, how the hell am I supposed to know? He’s a human being capable of changing his mind at any moment or simply follow his convictions to whatever end he sees. So take that risk into account when deciding to click his name in a fake football draft.

Scott: Between the holdout angle and the injury risk, I’d prefer not to spend the big draft capital for Cook. Granted, this is professional football, everyone has some injury risk, and the sure things run out quickly. But Cook is more reactive than proactive pick for me, not wanting to price in his breakout year and still worried about the medical and contract issues.

 

[menobrown]

What I do understand about it is that Cook has no leverage at all and I don't expect his agent threatening hold out has any impact on contract negotiations.

When I started seeing MLB and NBA players opting out due to Covid concerns I started down a line of thought that Dalvin and other potential hold outs might end up gaining some unexpected leverage.

I think ultimately will depend on what anticipated NFL opt-out guidelines will allow with respect to pay, service time and time frame on if/when a player who opts out can opt back in.

 

[Pwingles]

When I started seeing MLB and NBA players opting out due to Covid concerns I started down a line of thought that Dalvin and other potential hold outs might end up gaining some unexpected leverage.

I think ultimately will depend on what anticipated NFL opt-out guidelines will allow with respect to pay, service time and time frame on if/when a player who opts out can opt back in.

I doubt any NFL players (or very few) will opt out if there is a season. They likely wouldnt get paid at all, and still be under a contract similar to a holdout would be if they miss 'X' amount of games, so they wouldnt really gain any leverage imo

 

[menobrown]

I doubt any NFL players (or very few) will opt out if there is a season. They likely wouldnt get paid at all, and still be under a contract similar to a holdout would be if they miss 'X' amount of games, so they wouldnt really gain any leverage imo

Not sure how you can be so sure no NFL players would opt out when we are seeing players do it in other sports, and they are not getting paid either unless they are MLB players who can document a preexisting health condition and I don't think any of them have done that.  And that's not even getting into fact that obesity is a major prexisting condition and majority of NFL players fall under guideline of obesity, including Dalvin Cook as laughable as that seems if he needed to cite that as a reason.

As to your second comment I go back to what I already wrote and you responded to which is how much leverage can be gained depends on the timeframe or ability to opt back in. If they can opt back in at a later date and how much later is potential for a ton of leverage IMO but should something exist like once you opt out you can't opt back in then I'd agree not much leverage can be gained.

 

[Biabreakable]

When I started seeing MLB and NBA players opting out due to Covid concerns I started down a line of thought that Dalvin and other potential hold outs might end up gaining some unexpected leverage.

Such as?

The Vikings will be able to make Cook a RFA if he holds out so I am not seeing how opting out as you say helps?

I think ultimately will depend on what anticipated NFL opt-out guidelines will allow with respect to pay, service time and time frame on if/when a player who opts out can opt back in.

If somehow not playing the season allows him to get out of becoming a RFA then maybe. Otherwise no.

 

[menobrown]

Such as?

The Vikings will be able to make Cook a RFA if he holds out so I am not seeing how opting out as you say helps?

If somehow not playing the season allows him to get out of becoming a RFA then maybe. Otherwise no.

I don't know why this is so confusing for people.

If they will allow players to opt back in and don't put a timeframe on when they allow a player to do that he could simply opt out until week 10 or whenever he would need to opt back in to accrue a season and in effect use this to work around fines and removal of accured season for missing more then 5 days. 

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't know why this is so confusing for people.

If they will allow players to opt back in and don't put a timeframe on when they allow a player to do that he could simply opt out until week 10 or whenever he would need to opt back in to accrue a season and in effect use this to work around fines and removal of accured season for missing more then 5 days. 

If opting out due to covid nullifies the CBA then sure.

I dont think it does.

 

[Tau837]

I don't know why this is so confusing for people.

If they will allow players to opt back in and don't put a timeframe on when they allow a player to do that he could simply opt out until week 10 or whenever he would need to opt back in to accrue a season and in effect use this to work around fines and removal of accured season for missing more then 5 days. 

Part of your statement seems to be based on the old CBA. There is no more relevance to week 10 or week 7 or being active for n games, like was discussed in the past in holdout situations.

I think what you are saying is that it seems possible that the NFL will at some point allow players who aren't comfortable playing a season to opt out of playing, exempting them from penalties while opted out, and possibly enabling them to opt back in at some later time in the season (e.g., if a vaccine is proven out). 

If that is what you mean, it would require an entirely new set of negotiated terms that do not currently exist. For example, if the NFL does this, would they say that a player has to come back by week 10 or fail to accrue a season? I suppose they could, but there is no way to know. No such agreement exists or, as far as I know, has been reported to be even under consideration, much less in progress, unlike MLB and the NBA.

Basically, any discussion about it today is nothing but speculation with no actual basis in fact. (Of course, we do plenty of that around here on a daily basis.  )

 

[Biabreakable]

I was listening to Gary Kubiak talk about this and he says it's just business and he is staying out of commenting on that 

He says RB are very important to an offense success. That he won a Super Bowl because of a RB.  That Dalvin Cook is a special RB.

 

[Aznflyer14]

I just drafted Cook at 1.09 in a start up dynasty league. No way he goes that late without the holdout

I hope you did draft his handcuff Alexander Mattison.

 

[Blackbear]

Interesting take on a potential loophole? That could allow for Cook to get leverage...

https://youtu.be/-7LCt0Gh62g

 

[mozzy84]

Interesting take on a potential loophole? That could allow for Cook to get leverage...

https://youtu.be/-7LCt0Gh62g

the backlash would def be interesting pulling that move.

 

[Blackbear]

the backlash would def be interesting pulling that move.

I bet the fans and team would be pissed. Probably players in lockeroom would be mad. I doubt it happens, but it would be interesting to know if this can technically happen. We’d need to find a fellow fan that is a lawyer to read the cba. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Interesting take on a potential loophole? That could allow for Cook to get leverage...

https://youtu.be/-7LCt0Gh62g

Andy Carlson bless his heart does not know what he is talking about here.

Why would the RFA not be applicable to this situation?

If he is holding out for games I don't think waiting until the regular season to do would mean he is not a RFA in 2021. I believe that would still be applicable.

The new CBA does not allow teams to forgive the fines for missing regular season games. Cook would have to pay those fines and the fines would add up to him owing the Vikings more money than he has.

 

[Gandalf]

I hope you did draft his handcuff Alexander Mattison.

You know, I was able to snag him. I think in round 8

 

[Hankmoody]

Interesting take on a potential loophole? That could allow for Cook to get leverage...

https://youtu.be/-7LCt0Gh62g

Categorically incorrect and laughable that someone would think this makes sense.  They'd write language disallowing missing training camp but leaving once the games start creates no consequences?  C'mon man.

A player shall not receive an Accrued Season for any League Year in which the player is under contract to a Club and in which (i) he failed to report to the Club’s preseason training camp on that player’s mandatory reporting date; or (ii) the player thereafter failed to perform his contract services for the Club for a material period of time, unless he demonstrates to the Impartial Arbitrator extreme personal hardship causing such failure to report or perform, such as severe illness or death in the family.

 

[Biabreakable]

Game Pass Film Session: The Evolution of Dalvin Cook's Footwork

 

[Biabreakable]

I was reading Joes email earlier and the article about who will be 1st round busts in fantasy this season.

Almost unanimous agreement about Cook being a injury risk and therefore too much risk to consider drafting him in the first round.

I cannot really argue with their logic. The ADP right now says he is a 1st round pick, but if enough talk like this happens that could change. I would be pretty happy with the risk at around the turn in redrafts.

 

[kface]

I was reading Joes email earlier and the article about who will be 1st round busts in fantasy this season.

Almost unanimous agreement about Cook being a injury risk and therefore too much risk to consider drafting him in the first round.

I cannot really argue with their logic. The ADP right now says he is a 1st round pick, but if enough talk like this happens that could change. I would be pretty happy with the risk at around the turn in redrafts.

He went 1.04 in the draft i was just in...he has huge upside that some won't be able to get past

 

[msudaisy26]

WHat does Henry's contract mean for Cook?

I think it is right about what Cook should ask for and get. He is an all around better rb than Henry, but he gets hurt more than Henry. Being available is a skill worth paying for. 

 

[az_prof]

I think it is right about what Cook should ask for and get. He is an all around better rb than Henry, but he gets hurt more than Henry. Being available is a skill worth paying for. 

I agree.  Henry signing shows Cook and the Vikings about what Cook is worth and hopefully spurs a deal coming together soon.  Cook is more versatile but more injury prone. Comparable value.

 

[Faust]

ESPN's Courtney Cronin does not expect Dalvin Cook's holdout to last beyond the first week of training camp. 

Cronin's prediction is based on the new CBA, which mandates a $50,000 fine for each day a holdout player does not report. Supposedly, those fines can no longer be rescinded once a player shows up. There is also far more draconian rules when it comes to report date and accrued service time. Cronin believes there's a real possibility the sides come to an agreement in the early days of camp, pointing toward a long Vikings tradition of doing so. 

SOURCE: ESPN

Jul 23, 2020, 10:34 AM ET

 

[Tau837]

ESPN's Courtney Cronin does not expect Dalvin Cook's holdout to last beyond the first week of training camp.

He's not holding out, unless he and his agent are both complete morons. This blurb even references the 'draconian' rules about accrued service time, which should make it obvious.

 

[huthut]

I would probably draft Cook #4 if I had the spot in a redraft/snake league, behind McCaffery, Barkley, and Elliot. 

 

[cloppbeast]

He's not holding out, unless he and his agent are both complete morons. This blurb even references the 'draconian' rules about accrued service time, which should make it obvious.

What about the covid19 out the NFL has talked about?

 

[Tau837]

What about the covid19 out the NFL has talked about?

I'm not aware anything has been negotiated, so it is impossible to speculate on what that could lead to. But, as of today, he has to report to training camp on July 28 or, under the new CBA, he doesn't accrue a season in 2020, which means he is a restricted free agent after the 2020 season. Not to mention he starts surrendering $40K per day in fines that cannot be waived.

I very seriously doubt that something will be negotiated by next Tuesday that might allow him to "opt out" as a holdout and opt back in later to accrue whatever number of games would be required in that scenario to count as an accrued season.

 

[cloppbeast]

I'm not aware anything has been negotiated, so it is impossible to speculate on what that could lead to. But, as of today, he has to report to training camp on July 28 or, under the new CBA, he doesn't accrue a season in 2020, which means he is a restricted free agent after the 2020 season. Not to mention he starts surrendering $40K per day in fines that cannot be waived.

I very seriously doubt that something will be negotiated by next Tuesday that might allow him to "opt out" as a holdout and opt back in later to accrue whatever number of games would be required in that scenario to count as an accrued season.

Proposal allows for player opt-outs of season with written notice

This was dated last week, and I don’t know how likely it is to get done. One thing is, he wouldn’t be able to opt back in.

I think I agree with you, only we’ve seen a few running backs the last couple of years shoot themselves in the foot. One of the assumptions in economics is rational behavior of individuals, often the flaw of an analysis.

 

[Tau837]

I think I agree with you, only we’ve seen a few running backs the last couple of years shoot themselves in the foot. One of the assumptions in economics is rational behavior of individuals, often the flaw of an analysis.

But none of those RBs did that under the current CBA. Apples and oranges. 

 

[cloppbeast]

But none of those RBs did that under the current CBA. Apples and oranges. 

Nor did they have an opportunity to opt out of the season due to a pandemic.

 

[Biabreakable]

Nor did they have an opportunity to opt out of the season due to a pandemic.

Its not clear to me what happens with a players contract if they opt out due to the virus.

Do you or anyone know?

 

[Biabreakable]

The deadline for making an all-or-nothing decision arrives on August 1, at 5:00 p.m. ET. Written notice “must be received” by the team before that moment; once notice is received as to a given player, the opt out becomes irrevocable. Thus, unlike a holdout (which can end at any time), the player who opts out cannot play at all in 2020.

A player who opts out will have his contract toll for a full year. He will not receive his base salary or any other payments scheduled to be earned after the date of the opt out, and he will not earn a benefit credit or an accrued season. In 2021, his contract will be reinstated. If he “timely reports for all required activities” in 2021, the opt out will not become a breach of his 2020 contract, which “will not subject him to discipline or forfeiture, will not void any bonuses or guarantees or have any other adverse consequences beyond those set forth herein.” LINK

So if Cook opts out then he will just be a year older and in the same situation next year.

 

[cloppbeast]

Its not clear to me what happens with a players contract if they opt out due to the virus.

Do you or anyone know?

I don't think they have agreed to anything as of yet. But I'd have to think it will not count as an accrued season.

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't think they have agreed to anything as of yet. But I'd have to think it will not count as an accrued season.

I found an article with some details about it. Im not sure if this is finalized or not yet, but yeah sounds like no season accrued, so I dont see how it helps him to get a better contract after aging a year.