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Ravens- OC Cam Cameron Fired (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter (unwelcomed)GUEST
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@RavensInsider: Cam Cameron is out as offensive coordinator, Jim Caldwell is his replacement
coolnerd
Footballguy
Well that's clearly better.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
On a side note, Cam looked like crap coaching that D yesterday. He couldn't stop Cousins at all!
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Really bad news for Ray Rice.
Cameron's system is EXTREMELY FF friendly for running backs. Probably moreso than anyone else in the league.
San Diego: 2002-2006, ended with LT's 2300/31 TD season.
Miami: 2007, immediately turned Ronnie Brown into arguably the #1 dynasty RB before he blew out his knees
Baltimore: 2008-2012, Ray Rice.
In his 10 years, 2008 was the only year he didn't put out a guy that was a consensus top 3 FF running back.
Cameron's system is EXTREMELY FF friendly for running backs. Probably moreso than anyone else in the league.
San Diego: 2002-2006, ended with LT's 2300/31 TD season.
Miami: 2007, immediately turned Ronnie Brown into arguably the #1 dynasty RB before he blew out his knees
Baltimore: 2008-2012, Ray Rice.
In his 10 years, 2008 was the only year he didn't put out a guy that was a consensus top 3 FF running back.
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Yet he has fewer carries than BJGE and Shonn Greene this season. Rice will be fine.
Squintz82
Footballguy
Interesting because Rice owners have been screaming for Cameron to leave for a long time. I don't think it effects Rice negatively this season, however. He's already being underused.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
<Sarcasm> Yes this makes perfect sense given the great job Caldwell has done helping elevate Joe Flacco towards elite status this season. Also Replacing coordinators in the middle of a season has worked out very well for the teams that have done it. <Sarcasm/>
Over the long term, maybe. But for just this year, the play-calling has done Rice no favors, and it's too late in the season for any dramatic changes in the offense. So unless Caldwell is even more wacko for Flacco than Cameron, I think it's got to help Rice. Caldwell is auditioning for a permanent job as OC. He's not going to rest his best player for absurd long stretches during close games. Especially since you've got to assume that that was a large part of why Cameron was fired.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Cam has always run his offense through his running backs, especially getting them involved in the passing game. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the mandate to lean on Flacco more came from over his head.Receptions per season.LT under Cam: 80LT otherwise: 43Ronnie Brown under Cam: 90 (pace, injured after 7 games)Ronnie Brown otherwise: 29Two years from now, Rice owners will be wishing they had Cameron. His offense has churned out near 2,000 yard running backs in 6 out of his 10 years (including 3 with Rice), and Ronnie Brown would have easily made it 7 if he hadn't gotten hurt. Then one season where the organization as a whole wants to move to a more passer friendly offense and all of the sudden he's the one holding a RB back? Short-sighted FF owners. Two years from now Rice owners will be sorry he's gone, and anyone that passes on the RB wherever he ends up will be sorry that they've missed out on yet another Cam Cameron top 3 dynasty RB.
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
Really? Interesting timing. Why now?
lod01
Footballguy
Must have gone deep to Torrey Smith on 3rd and 1 just one too many times.
thehornet
Footballguy
Why are you so defensive? Is Cameron your uncle? Relax, nobody is disputing Cam's impact on the running back position in the past. However, you cannot deny that Rice hasn't been used enough over the last 5 weeks, while Flacco the terrible has been used far too much.
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Always assuming they give him the ball. Wasn't it just two games ago that Rice scored a 34 yard TD in the 3rd quarter, and then touched the ball one more time the rest of the game (which they lost)?
lod01
Footballguy
Maybe he was getting a cut of Flacco's next deal. 'Hey, I'll give you 10% if you let me throw the ball deep on 3rd and 1'.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Desperation, Cam's scheme is ancient and his use of Rice has been consistently terrible, Ravens don't think they can get over the hump with him. Don't blame them for trying, but Flacco is the bigger issue on this offense. If Caldwell shifts to 50/50 run/pass I think that's the Ravens best shot at another deep playoff run. Mix in Dickson/Boldin and PA deep to Smith instead of relying on it first then complimenting with the run game.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
13 touches two weeks ago against Pitt?OK.
fatness
Footballguy
Interesting stuff.
I keep thinking the Ravens are making a mistake, not in firing Cameron, but in thinking Flacco is better than he really is and in thinking he just needs the right QB coach and "weapons".
thehornet
Footballguy
I agree. Very mediocre QB playing for a very good football team (in all other areas) over the past 5 years.
Warpig
Footballguy
I don't understand why all the blame is on the OC. I thought Flacco was supposed to be a smart guy from Delaware? So if the OC calls in a play action pass and the defense has 12 guys in the box...can't the QB say "screw you Cam, I'm gonna throw a quick slant to the TE and get this 1st down."
Boggles my mind how a QB just robotically runs what the OC calls. Isn't that why they have audibles...so the QB can check to something else if he sees something in the defense he doesn't like?
To me, Flacco is just dumb and a mediocre talent who has no faith in his own abilities and is afraid to take a chance and audible to something else.
He's insanely inconsistent and overhyped by the media types. :X
Boggles my mind how a QB just robotically runs what the OC calls. Isn't that why they have audibles...so the QB can check to something else if he sees something in the defense he doesn't like?
To me, Flacco is just dumb and a mediocre talent who has no faith in his own abilities and is afraid to take a chance and audible to something else.
He's insanely inconsistent and overhyped by the media types. :X
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Because clearly a few weeks is more relevant than 10 years.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Ray Rice's touches aside, the Ravens have the 18th ranked offense in the NFL this year. Given the talent they have on offense, that is unacceptable. Cameron getting fired is long overdue.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I never understand why Torrey Smith isn't used more on shorter routes. It's not like he can't run them; I've seen him do it before. He is a guy who can catch a short pass and make a big play out of it, but it seems like most of the plays to him are always deep passes, which defenses know, making them less difficult to defend.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Flacco fits this gritty and brave band of overachievers like a glove.
Agreed... it's like Torrey Smith has one route to run, and that's the deep ball.
Shutout
Footballguy
I'm not going to rush to judgment on this. I can see both sides of people's thoughts saying it could be bad or good for Rice and the other Ravens. These things aren't just isolated into something so simple as as "Just give Rice the ball more". I think people like us, in general, vastly underestimate the skill it takes for this job. 90% of us can't even correctly identify a particular defense in a still-shot, much less identify one changing every 30 seconds and then call the perfect play to destroy it (and then the players actually execute it).
Any change at this point of the season has just as good a chance of negatively affecting the team as it does of positively affecting it. Its not like between now and next sunday the ravens will install a completely new system with different terminology and fundamental concepts. Its going to be the exact same system except Caldwell will feel obligated (whether that is the right or wrong decision) to use Rice more. It will be interesting to see how this translates into the fate of the team by season's end.
I'm going to sit on the side of the fence that suggests that Cam's track record suggests he knows what he's doing enough to suggest that Caldwell isn't going to come in next week and revolutionize the way Rice is used. careful what you wish for as they say. The guy you just promoted was fired last year in large part of having a woefully unprepared and anemic offense.
Any change at this point of the season has just as good a chance of negatively affecting the team as it does of positively affecting it. Its not like between now and next sunday the ravens will install a completely new system with different terminology and fundamental concepts. Its going to be the exact same system except Caldwell will feel obligated (whether that is the right or wrong decision) to use Rice more. It will be interesting to see how this translates into the fate of the team by season's end.
I'm going to sit on the side of the fence that suggests that Cam's track record suggests he knows what he's doing enough to suggest that Caldwell isn't going to come in next week and revolutionize the way Rice is used. careful what you wish for as they say. The guy you just promoted was fired last year in large part of having a woefully unprepared and anemic offense.
Answer to my question:The Caldwell and Flacco relationship will be interesting. In a recent story in The Baltimore Sun, Flacco admitted he was a little frustrated about the Ravens abandoning the no-huddle and Flacco has always suggested the Ravens throw more than run. The no-huddle was Flacco’s toy.
packersfan
Footballguy
Anybody think Flacco's value will rise because of this? I'm not a big fan of his to begin with and I don't like his schedule the rest of the way. Curious to see what others think his value may be as a result of all this.
asuterlowe
Footballguy
Ray Rice is a top 3 option year in and year out despite Cam Cameron, not because of him.
The guy didn't give Rice a carry in the last 16 minutes of the PIT game despite being up 10. If you are trying to get fired its hard to think of a better way.
The guy didn't give Rice a carry in the last 16 minutes of the PIT game despite being up 10. If you are trying to get fired its hard to think of a better way.
Run It Up
Footballguy
No, he has Mark Sanchez level decision making. I only hope that this experiment is now over and they don't give Flacco more than 20m, the poison that is killing that offense.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Great call on 1st and Goal. Cam Cameron would be proud. 
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
When asked for a postgame comment, Caldwell said 
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Flacco can't handle any toy that is above Fisher-Price. He takes command at that level and then becomes delusional about his "higher level" motor and thinking skills. - excerpt from a review of Flacco's Stanford–Binet Intelligence Scales testing as a young man.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Caldwell 2012 = FF RB production. 2013 Caldwell is forgetting how 2012 Caldwell helped architect that title.
I'm discounting the week 15 loss since it was a blowout loss his first week on the job. The final 6 games?
Week 16 - 81 plays, 45 runs
Week 17 - 83 plays, 46 runs
Wildcard - 56 plays, 32 runs
Divisional - 74 plays, 39 runs
AFC Title - 71 plays, 33 runs
Super Bowl - 70 plays, 35 runs
Only one game < 50% run and that was against the Pats, who are stout vs. the run and suck vs. the pass. Zero games with < 30 runs.
So far in 2013?
Week 1 - 87 plays, 21 runs
Week 2 - 71 plays, 36 runs
Week 3 - 57 plays, 31 runs
Week 4 - 63 plays, 9 runs
Even before the Broncos blew the doors off the week 1 game, the Ravens run
ass ratio was way too pass heavy. 47:20 until the Broncos got the ball and drove to take a 42-17 lead. Much better balance helped them stick around in both the Cleveland and Houston games before dominating the 2nd half. Week 4 was a return to panic play calling, in the worst way yet, as summarized above.They lost significant pieces of their passing offense this offseason (Boldin), preseason (Pitta), and early season (Jones) yet are still trying to win through the air. It's a really stupid strategy, no other way to spin it. Give the running backs 30-40 carries per game --> win. Simple concept. Caldwell's fallen into the trap so many other coaches do, not being able to see beyond 5' in front of him, not seeing the big picture.
If they get back to 50/50 ball, running the ball > 30 times/game, they will be successful. If they don't then they won't. If he figures it out, they will win again and the RB's will be fantasy relevant. If he doesn't, well, see Cam Cameron last December.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Maybe if they didn't get way behind either in the first half or early in the third quarter they could run the ball more. IMO, too small a sample size to conclude much of anything. Most teams would love to run the ball to burn clock and seal a win. You can't do that when you are 10+ points behind. Sure, it's nice to say that running X amount of times = win. But I think that it's better stated as winning = having the ability to run X amount of times.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Even if Caldwell gets back to running it more, that's still only a fraction of the story.
Pierce is getting a bigger share of the pie than any backup ever did under Cam, who was one of the last remaining OCs that preferred a workhorse back. Just as bad, the touches Rice IS getting are less productive without Cameron than they were with him. Rice's YPC and YPR have both dropped precipitously since Caldwell took over.
Since Caldwell took over, the following trends have popped up, getting worse every game we get further away from Cam's leftover influence:
Again, nothing new here.
Pierce is getting a bigger share of the pie than any backup ever did under Cam, who was one of the last remaining OCs that preferred a workhorse back. Just as bad, the touches Rice IS getting are less productive without Cameron than they were with him. Rice's YPC and YPR have both dropped precipitously since Caldwell took over.
Since Caldwell took over, the following trends have popped up, getting worse every game we get further away from Cam's leftover influence:
- Ravens are running less
- Rice is getting a smaller percentage of those runs
- Rice is getting less production out of those runs
- With fewer designed passes to him, Rice is getting less productions out of his receptions
Again, nothing new here.
- LT's production dropped off quickly year over year after Cameron left. To be fair, LT's age played a role as well but he had the greatest RB season of all-time in Cam's last year there, and within two years his YPC had dipped to 3.8 at age 29 and it was 3.3 the next year at 30. The Chargers' run game has never even been close to what it was with Cam again.
- The Dolphins' RB production, and especially Ronnie Brown's, disappeared as soon as Cam was fired. It has never even been close again. People forget that Ronnie Brown was the runaway FF1 for the half season he played under Cam before getting hurt.
- We're seeing the same trend with Baltimore. Rice is a good enough RB that he won't disappear, but the 2000/15 upside/production he had with Cam is long gone, and has disappeared rapidly.
