Ran a 10k - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[Hang 10]

A new take on the fuel belt!

 

[tri-man 47]

As a refresher, here's the relevant data Steve had compiled a few years ago regarding the correlation of HMs to marathon times.  (I updated Juxt's and my data.)  Steve had concluded that 2.15-2.20 is a reasonable target. 

Group 3: A bunch of 2:20-2:40 friends/rivals:

1) 65:45 / 2:21:30 (2.15)

2) 68:57 / 2:29:54 (2.17)

3) 69:01 / 2:27:30 (2.14)

4) 70:54 / 2:31:00 (2.13)

5) 71:30 / 2:31:00 (2.11)

6) 75:30 / 2:44 (2.17)

7) 78:30 / 2:48:30 (2.15) 

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) Juxt – 82:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

2) Gruecd -87:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Ned - 92:53 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

4) pbm – 1:28:12 / 3:07:23 (2.12)

5) Tri - 91:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

6) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

 

[Hang 10]

As a refresher, here's the relevant data Steve had compiled a few years ago regarding the correlation of HMs to marathon times.  (I updated Juxt's and my data.)  Steve had concluded that 2.15-2.20 is a reasonable target. 

Group 3: A bunch of 2:20-2:40 friends/rivals:

1) 65:45 / 2:21:30 (2.15)

2) 68:57 / 2:29:54 (2.17)

3) 69:01 / 2:27:30 (2.14)

4) 70:54 / 2:31:00 (2.13)

5) 71:30 / 2:31:00 (2.11)

6) 75:30 / 2:44 (2.17)

7) 78:30 / 2:48:30 (2.15) 

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) Juxt – 82:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

2) Gruecd -87:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Ned - 92:53 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

4) pbm – 1:28:12 / 3:07:23 (2.12)

5) Tri - 91:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

6) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

Ned should be 87 minutes.

7) Hang 10 - 86:51 / 3:08:44 (2.17)

 

[pbm107]

I'm now 1:28:12 / 2:59:08 but my half PR isn't relevant at this point, an update to that will be coming in April.

 

[FUBAR]

As a refresher, here's the relevant data Steve had compiled a few years ago regarding the correlation of HMs to marathon times.  (I updated Juxt's and my data.)  Steve had concluded that 2.15-2.20 is a reasonable target. 

Group 3: A bunch of 2:20-2:40 friends/rivals:

1) 65:45 / 2:21:30 (2.15)

2) 68:57 / 2:29:54 (2.17)

3) 69:01 / 2:27:30 (2.14)

4) 70:54 / 2:31:00 (2.13)

5) 71:30 / 2:31:00 (2.11)

6) 75:30 / 2:44 (2.17)

7) 78:30 / 2:48:30 (2.15) 

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) Juxt – 82:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

2) Gruecd -87:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Ned - 92:53 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

4) pbm – 1:28:12 / 3:07:23 (2.12)

5) Tri - 91:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

6) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

I'm right there with Tri.  1:31:57 / 3:28:36 (2.26)

although the half was a year after that marathon, so who really knows if the ratio is accurate?

 

[FUBAR]

question for you BQers. 

If my goal marathon is December 10th, would it generally be better to run a half marathon November 12th or a trail 50k/40M/50M on November 19th?  All are local.

Figure if I do the longer race less than a month prior, I'd basically do a 3 week taper afterwards.  If I did the HM, I'd go long the next weekend then taper.  Main different would be that the 19th wouldn't be quite as long or hard as the race would be.  Or maybe do the trail race but not overdo it?  

 

[Hang 10]

question for you BQers. 

If my goal marathon is December 10th, would it generally be better to run a half marathon November 12th or a trail 50k/40M/50M on November 19th?  All are local.

Figure if I do the longer race less than a month prior, I'd basically do a 3 week taper afterwards.  If I did the HM, I'd go long the next weekend then taper.  Main different would be that the 19th wouldn't be quite as long or hard as the race would be.  Or maybe do the trail race but not overdo it?  

Definitely think it's smarter to run the half marathon because the recovery is so much shorter and your training doesn't really have to take a hit. 

 

[Hang 10]

9 miles with 6 x 1000 today. Boy did that workout suck but the results were solid. Ran the first 5 @ a 5:50-5:53 pace. Last rep into wind sucked but was still right at 6:02 pace. Glad that's over with. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

In addition to the recovery aspect that Hang 10 mentions, there is a great training benefit (physical and mental) of running a half and holding that faster-than-marathon pace for an extended duration of 90 minutes or so.  

 

[FUBAR]

Definitely think it's smarter to run the half marathon because the recovery is so much shorter and your training doesn't really have to take a hit. 

thanks.  That's what I think I'm going with, just kind of want to do the dizzy fifties too.  Maybe in 2017.

 

[tri-man 47]

In addition to the recovery aspect that Hang 10 mentions, there is a great training benefit (physical and mental) of running a half and holding that faster-than-marathon pace for an extended duration of 90 minutes or so.  

Sounds like the decision is in, but I agree with the HM logic.  Race it hard ...break down the muscles; let them heal stronger. 

 

[MAC_32]

I'm experimenting with a new strength training routine, 5x every two weeks.  I figure with how hard my heart rate will be going during this workout that I will want to go super slow on my recovery runs.  I'll let my harder training runs indicate how successful this is working, but since I began doing something along these lines in January I've had tremendous progress.

1. Rows 3x15 superset w/20 lunges (going to add weight to these *hopefully* soon)
   
2. Squat to Press 3x15 superset w/20 lunges
   
3. Stability Ball Chest Press 3x15 superset w/15 squats
   
4. Bicep curls 3x15 superset w/15 squats
   
5. Giant sets of 20 push ups, 20 dips, and 15 reverse crunches until either failure or 30 minutes runs up - once I can get to 30 minutes without pausing this workout at any point I'll add weights to the lunges
   

Scheduled half is May 15, so probably plan on keeping with this and possibly adding to it then taking the foot off the petal the middle of the first week of May.

 

[tri-man 47]

FWIW, an updated list of our guys ...pending updates through the spring and beyond.

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) pbm – 1:28:12 / 2:59:08 (2.03)

2) Gruecd – 1:27:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Juxt – 1:22:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

4) Ned – 1:27:10 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

5) Hang 10 – 1:26:51 / 3:08:44 (2.17)

6) FUBAR – 1:31:57 / 3:28:36 (2.26)

7) Tri – 1:31:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

8) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

 

[Ned]

question for you BQers. 

If my goal marathon is December 10th, would it generally be better to run a half marathon November 12th or a trail 50k/40M/50M on November 19th?  All are local.

Figure if I do the longer race less than a month prior, I'd basically do a 3 week taper afterwards.  If I did the HM, I'd go long the next weekend then taper.  Main different would be that the 19th wouldn't be quite as long or hard as the race would be.  Or maybe do the trail race but not overdo it?  

It's your goal marathon, but what is the goal for that marathon?   If you're trying to BQ, there's no way in hell I'd run an ultra 4 weeks beforehand.  I agree with the others - race the HM.

A nasty 24hr stomach bug is running through our house.  Tue night thru Wed was my turn.  Now I know why I was so sluggish on my Tuesday run.  Ugh. :X   Not sure if I'll run today or not even though I feel like nothing has happened.  Crazy how these things can leave as quickly as they hit.

 

[Ned]

FWIW, an updated list of our guys ...pending updates through the spring and beyond.

Group 4: A few samples from this thread:

1) pbm – 1:28:12 / 2:59:08 (2.03)

2) Gruecd – 1:27:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Juxt – 1:22:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

4) Ned – 1:27:10 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

5) Hang 10 – 1:26:51 / 3:08:44 (2.17)

6) FUBAR – 1:31:57 / 3:28:36 (2.26)

7) Tri – 1:31:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

8) Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

@pbm107 - quick favor, GB.  Don't race a HM this spring.  I want to savor having a better HM PR for as long as I can.

 

[FUBAR]

It's your goal marathon, but what is the goal for that marathon?   If you're trying to BQ, there's no way in hell I'd run an ultra 4 weeks beforehand.  I agree with the others - race the HM.

A nasty 24hr stomach bug is running through our house.  Tue night thru Wed was my turn.  Now I know why I was so sluggish on my Tuesday run.  Ugh. :X   Not sure if I'll run today or not even though I feel like nothing has happened.  Crazy how these things can leave as quickly as they hit.

Goal probably 3:10ish, too early for me to set a firm goal.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

Goal probably 3:10ish, too early for me to set a firm goal.  

I don't remember how old you are.  What's your qualifying time?  Do you want to run Boston or just reach the qualifying mark?

 

[FUBAR]

I don't remember how old you are.  What's your qualifying time?  Do you want to run Boston or just reach the qualifying mark?

I'll be 40, so 3:15

and no, I have no desire to actually run it in 2017.  We expect to be headed to China around April of 17 and our money is earmarked for that excursion and adoption. So it's all local races for me for a while.

 

[Hang 10]

@pbm107 - quick favor, GB.  Don't race a HM this spring.  I want to savor having a better HM PR for as long as I can.

Yes, I'm digging having the 2nd best HM on the list.

 

[Ned]

Yes, I'm digging having the 2nd best HM on the list.

I have to be honest.  That 19 seconds mildly pisses me off.

 

[koby925]

9 miles with 6 x 1000 today. Boy did that workout suck but the results were solid. Ran the first 5 @ a 5:50-5:53 pace. Last rep into wind sucked but was still right at 6:02 pace. Glad that's over with. 

Nice workout.  What was rest/recovery in between?  

 

[Hang 10]

I have to be honest.  That 19 seconds mildly pisses me off.

 love it. 

You know what pisses me off? How am I ever going to get faster than Juxt and PBM if they keep getting faster? 

 

[Ned]

 love it. 

You know what pisses me off? How am I ever going to get faster than Juxt and PBM if they keep getting faster? 

 Aren't they both older than you?  Father time is on your side...  

I'm looking forward to their showdown in Philly.  I'll get a front row seat to it for the first 1/4 mile.

 

[Hang 10]

Nice workout.  What was rest/recovery in between?  

The workout scheduled 50-90% of the duration of the interval for rest. So I went in the idea that I'd run about 3:40-3:45, so I'd take 2 minutes rest. I took 2 minutes between reps 1-2 and 2-3. Then I took 2 1/2 between 3-4 and 4-5. I took 3 minutes between 5-6 just because it just worked out better because there was an intersection at one of the roads. I'm no sure the extra rest really helped that much. 

 

[Hang 10]

 Aren't they both older than you?  Father time is on your side...  

I'm looking forward to their showdown in Philly.  I'll get a front row seat to it for the first 1/4 mile.

I think PBM is the same age unfortunately. :(  

But yeah, that race should be awesome. Can't wait to hear that report. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I'm looking forward to their showdown in Philly.  I'll get a front row seat to it for the first 1/4 mile.

Unless pbm has a different idea, my plan is to tie -- no showdown.  (Although maybe I could lag a second behind him at the start....) 

 

[Hang 10]

Unless pbm has a different idea, my plan is to tie -- no showdown.  (Although maybe I could lag a second behind him at the start....) 

Tie? 

 

[Ned]

 

[pbm107]

I have to be honest.  That 19 seconds mildly pisses me off.

Good, there is hope for you yet.

 

[pbm107]

Unless pbm has a different idea, my plan is to tie -- no showdown.  (Although maybe I could lag a second behind him at the start....) 

I was hoping we could work together, but we do have different racing styles.  You like to go out faster than me.

 

[Hang 10]

 

[Juxtatarot]

I was hoping we could work together, but we do have different racing styles.  You like to go out faster than me.

That's usually accidental!  What strategy would you like? Even splits? I'm not sure I'm crazy about negative splits unless there's more downhill in the second half (haven't looked). 

 

[pbm107]

That's usually accidental!  What strategy would you like? Even splits? I'm not sure I'm crazy about negative splits unless there's more downhill in the second half (haven't looked). 

Ideally I'd like to run even splits.  There is a lot of time between now and then but it is likely our goal is going to be a bit of a stretch for both of us.  Who really knows what is going to happen after miles 6-7, but before that it would be great if we work together.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

This is kind of crazy...

AG awards go to the top 5 of each group for the Broad St. Run.  Last year, the 5th best male in the 45-49 AG finished in 1:00:06.  And there are also 5 Master awards that some of the top guys in my AG could fall into and thus, I assume, be excluded. 

 

[Ned]

Good, there is hope for you yet.

don't worry about me.  I'll turn it back on.

 

[MAC_32]

Could I get a refresher on tempo runs?  I think i did mine too fast today.

 

[Hang 10]

Could I get a refresher on tempo runs?  I think i did mine too fast today.

If you couldn't hold that pace for an hour than you ran too fast. 

Tempo is probably 5-10 seconds faster than half marathon pace.

 

[tri-man 47]

Could I get a refresher on tempo runs?  I think i did mine too fast today.

I'm finding I like a mix of speeds, which results from a variety of distances.  For current marathon training, I'll do tempos in the range from 3 to 12 miles.  I'd say mine end up being at about 80-85% of max HR (more towards the higher end) ...comfortably uncomfortable ...somewhere in the 10K to HM pacing range (similar to what Hang 10 states).  

 

[prosopis]

Love reading this thread. I have nothing to add but I just want to say you guys are all very helpful and informative.

 

[koby925]

I'm finding I like a mix of speeds, which results from a variety of distances.  For current marathon training, I'll do tempos in the range from 3 to 12 miles.  I'd say mine end up being at about 80-85% of max HR (more towards the higher end) ...comfortably uncomfortable ...somewhere in the 10K to HM pacing range (similar to what Hang 10 states).  

What these guys said.  I like making mine progression tempo runs, dropping the pace as I go.  I did 3 mile tempo yesterday and dropped the pace :15 for mile 2 compared to mile 1 and mile 3 was :12 faster than mile 2.  

 

[MAC_32]

I was fairly sure I ran that too fast yesterday, but apparently I ran that way too fast.

Good talk, fellas.  Live and learn...

 

[Juxtatarot]

I think I'm going to run a mock 5K (outside this time!) tomorrow morning.  I mention it here knowing that some of you will check it out on Strava.  That gives me a little more motivation not to bail when it gets tough.

The weather has turned warm so I'll be able to wear shorts and all the snow is melting so I'll be able to run it at the park which is nice since it's mostly flat. 

 

[MAC_32]

Sub 17 @Juxtatarot!

 

[Juxtatarot]

I was fairly sure I ran that too fast yesterday, but apparently I ran that way too fast.

Good talk, fellas.  Live and learn...

Fortunately I don't think there is harm in running too fast on a tempo as long as you don't bail, don't hurt yourself, and realize it might take you a little longer to recover from.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Sub 17 @Juxtatarot!

Hell no!  Just trying to be around 18:00.

 

[koby925]

Fortunately I don't think there is harm in running too fast on a tempo as long as you don't bail, don't hurt yourself, and realize it might take you a little longer to recover from.

Agree.  If you aren't sucking wind or HR going up dramatically to run the same or slower pace as you progress, seems all good.  Maybe the tempo wasn't too fast, MAC.  Maybe you got faster.  

 

[koby925]

Hell no!  Just trying to be around 18:00.

Good luck!  I think you're ready for that.  Last time I tried a year plus ago I was in low 18s.  And you are in better shape than I was.  

 

[gruecd]

This new board sucks D....

 

[ChiefD]

70 degrees when I ran here yesterday. Internet was down at work, so ran from home at lunchtime. 6.2 miles. Damn I could get used to that. 

 

[FUBAR]

Agree.  If you aren't sucking wind or HR going up dramatically to run the same or slower pace as you progress, seems all good.  Maybe the tempo wasn't too fast, MAC.  Maybe you got faster.  

That's why I don't like running with a pace being the focus (I'll do it on occasion but it's flexible), HR is better, maybe PE but that's easy to lie to yourself.  For me, thinking of it as "10 seconds faster than HM" is less effective than setting a HR goal.  Not to mention elevation messes that up even more.   Though recently I've preferred running with an effort in mind.