Brony
Footballguy
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
Yeah, dropping at Kettle-Moraine has been eating me up mentally so I think for the sake of starting to put that in the rearview I wanted to squeeze another 100 attempt in this year and hope to keep building Western States tickets. While dropping may have been the correct decision based on a horrible training cycle, I can't get over quitting. And reading your race report and everything else Western States related really drove home the fact that I'm pissed that I rationalized away my desire to run that race when I was hot and miserable in the middle of a 100.
So regarding RdL...my wife had essentially proposed that I head out there on a solo trip (with any buddies that wanted to go and/or pace), get a finish, and come home. She then subsequently expressed a desire to go with and pace me for some mileage in excess of what she typically does and treat this as sort of a destination race for herself too.
So we lined up our daughters with some family from Friday through Monday and we're making the trip together with the intent that she's going to pace me for the last 25 miles, or the last 16 if she's not comfortable with 25 miles come early November. My wife ran a marathon a few years ago, runs the TC10 every year, has done a few trail HM's, and paced me the last 7 miles at the Superior 100 last year so she's capable but she's never done anything like 25 miles on (technical??) trail, likely at night, having to carry her own supplies, and on what may be little sleep. The fact that it'll just be her and I at the race means we've got some logistics to work through and I'll likely want to pick your brain about (among other things) what those last 25 miles are like just to have a better handle on anything that might help her/us in training and on that final stretch. I'm pretty excited. Since she's now along for the trip, I'm focusing my thoughts more on simply finishing and thoroughly enjoying the experience rather than what kind of time I run. I figure there will be other races for that. That's awesome that your friend is considering running. He'll have a top notch pacer if he does! Looking forward to meeting you as well!
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Jimmy put together his first draft of the race video, I may or may not have watched this 5 times in the last hour. And damned if it doesn't look like I just walked for 30 hours 
The video version of :tldr for the crew here is you can skip most of the 12 minutes and go right to the crux of the race - the 9:22 mark of the video at the river crossing. It was 4:26 AM and I'd been going for almost 24 hours and Wally and I had just finished our 16 mile stretch, handing me off to Jim with 22 to go with a 30 minute buffer on the cutoffs.
Wally: "Well done."
Me: "Thank you."
Wally: "Hope it's enough, hope it's enough."
Jim: "We got it."
It was enough. And we had it.
Dammit, again with the stuff in my eyes......
The video version of :tldr for the crew here is you can skip most of the 12 minutes and go right to the crux of the race - the 9:22 mark of the video at the river crossing. It was 4:26 AM and I'd been going for almost 24 hours and Wally and I had just finished our 16 mile stretch, handing me off to Jim with 22 to go with a 30 minute buffer on the cutoffs.
Wally: "Well done."
Me: "Thank you."
Wally: "Hope it's enough, hope it's enough."
Jim: "We got it."
It was enough. And we had it.
Dammit, again with the stuff in my eyes......
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southeastjerome
Footballguy
Thanks. I do have fun running 5k's and always want to get a PB. I am more Runner A than runner B. This is my first half. My PB in a 5k is 23:09. This is the first time I have been totally injury free for 6 months since I have been running, so I know I can beat that. I'd love to PR my 5k and finish the half under 2 hours. Sounds like you and others don't seem to think going for it in the 5k is worth it, I appreciate the advice. Part of what always had me injured is each of regular runs, I would run hard and try to set PRs for all of my local routes. I never understood how people could log a lot of miles and not get injured. Finally now I can go for a easy long run and not push it. It has made a huge difference. I don't come here often, but I know a lot of you guys are experts and throw down some awesome times, so I do appreciate the input.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Trying to learn here. Since the 5k is relatively short, what would a kick hard at the last half mile or so in a 5k do to inhibit my half the next day? Is it just a matter of saving energy?
ChiefD
Footballguy
Wow, just wow. Not afraid to admit I teared up when you entered that gate to the track. Can't imagine how emotional that had to be for you.Jimmy put together his first draft of the race video, I may or may not have watched this 5 times in the last hour. And damned if it doesn't look like I just walked for 30 hours
The video version of :tldr for the crew here is you can skip most of the 12 minutes and go right to the crux of the race - the 9:22 mark of the video at the river crossing. It was 4:26 AM and I'd been going for almost 24 hours and Wally and I had just finished our 16 mile stretch, handing me off to Jim with 22 to go with a 30 minute buffer on the cutoffs.
Wally: "Well done."
Me: "Thank you."
Wally: "Hope it's enough, hope it's enough."
Jim: "We got it."
It was enough. And we had it.
Dammit, again with the stuff in my eyes......
JShare87
Footballguy
I'm not as seasoned or knowledgeable as most in here. So whatever the others are telling you, I'd listen to them if you want to have a successful injury-free 2 days. However, from my experience, running a 5K at full speed or even the last mile will require some time to recover. I don't think it's an energy thing, more like a your body needs to recover thing.
After some of my all-out or close to all-out efforts in a 5k or 10k, the following day, my heart rate is fairly higher than normal. That tells me that I still need some time to recover and rest. In my current training program, mostly every run that isn't an easy run is followed by a rest day or recovery run, and they are well-needed.
I understand where you are coming from. You have an itch to run your best 5K because you know you can do it. To me it sounds like that is your priority. Just know it will be extremely difficult for you to finish your first half-marathon let alone finish in under 2 hours if you go all out in that 5K.
If I were you, I'd go get your PR in the 5K the day before. Then, see how you are feeling and plan to walk/jog the half to see what one is like since you've never done one before. The reason I say this is because I think if you hold back on your 5K, you're going to know you could've done so much better and your first half-marathon is going to be a pretty tough run/experience either way. At the end of the day, it is up to you and it will be a learning experience for you. Good luck in both. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
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Ned
Footballguy
The bold is your answer. You're repeating your old habit by trying to double up (I went through this too when I first started).
Yes, the 5K is short and shouldn't take a lot of energy, but if run properly, it is very taxing on your muscles. Even more so for a newish runner.
You have to decide what the priority is, IMO - 5K PR or a good HM debut.
ChiefD
Footballguy
And to expand on this @southeastjerome: you chose the HM for a reason. And presumably you have trained properly for it.
It just seems to me you went through all the effort to train for the half, so the half should be the priority race.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
The hard kick would stress your muscles as you reach with the stride and push a fast rotation. Better to keep a strong, controllable pace throughout and not risk doing any temporary damage at the end of the race. (That said: I did a 5K/10K double last fall with a 25 minute gap between them. As a result, I didn't push the 5K finish. And while I did take 3rd in AG, I missed first place by 3 seconds.
). Especially if you've got a PB in the bag, be happy with that and save what you've got for the HM.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
GREAT video. And just to say, the celebrated foot lubing occurs right after the 5:00 mark. But did I mention it's a great video?Jimmy put together his first draft of the race video, I may or may not have watched this 5 times in the last hour. And damned if it doesn't look like I just walked for 30 hours
Nugget
Footballguy
I am going to try to transition from mostly walking to mostly running over the remainder of the summer. Walk--> Wog -->Jog -->Run
There is a free 5K run hosted by my local running store next week on the 27th. I am going to try to jog the entire time to set a baseline pace. There is another free 5K on Aug 21st at 5:00 am where the town gets together and talks trash on Missouri. I'm going to sign up for a trifecta of races where I'm hoping to see some improved results - 5K on Sep 16, 5K on Oct 21, and a 10K on Nov 11.
Mostly posting this here to hold myself accountable. I have enjoyed reading the thread and look forward to having my Strava mile times reach the single digits.
There is a free 5K run hosted by my local running store next week on the 27th. I am going to try to jog the entire time to set a baseline pace. There is another free 5K on Aug 21st at 5:00 am where the town gets together and talks trash on Missouri. I'm going to sign up for a trifecta of races where I'm hoping to see some improved results - 5K on Sep 16, 5K on Oct 21, and a 10K on Nov 11.
Mostly posting this here to hold myself accountable. I have enjoyed reading the thread and look forward to having my Strava mile times reach the single digits.
Hang 10
Footballguy
HR training, bros. Got a new watch and the zones are a little whacky. Explain to me how you set up your 5 zones. I sorta use HR reserve in my head when I run but I'm okay if the data screens just go off of % of max. This sound about right?
1: 50%-60%
2: 60%-70%
3: 70%-80%
4: 80%-90%
5: 90%-100%
TIA
1: 50%-60%
2: 60%-70%
3: 70%-80%
4: 80%-90%
5: 90%-100%
TIA
jb1020
Footballguy
Such a cool video @SFBayDuck You inspired me to go back out and find a local trail. I don't remember being active in this thread at the time but one of the last races I ran was a the 20K option of the MS50. That was 2013. I had actually signed up to run the 50K the next year but tore up my ankle about 6 weeks out, that's when my running all but fell apart.
Anyways, I found a nice horse/hike (people don't really hike around here) trail about 20 minutes from my house. The kids were staying at their grandparents house Friday night so I figured I'd go give it a shot. Pretty ugly overall...between the suck index being 164, new to trails, and dodging horse #### I was able to turn in a sloppy 3 miles- avg pace of 12:44. I also managed to pick up 3 ticks and get poison ivy thats now spread to my eyes...so thanks again for the inspiration!
Seriously, its been fun watching all your videos. I appreciate the inspiration. I need to get active in this thread again.
Anyways, I found a nice horse/hike (people don't really hike around here) trail about 20 minutes from my house. The kids were staying at their grandparents house Friday night so I figured I'd go give it a shot. Pretty ugly overall...between the suck index being 164, new to trails, and dodging horse #### I was able to turn in a sloppy 3 miles- avg pace of 12:44. I also managed to pick up 3 ticks and get poison ivy thats now spread to my eyes...so thanks again for the inspiration!
Seriously, its been fun watching all your videos. I appreciate the inspiration. I need to get active in this thread again.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Is it a Garmin possibly with wrist HR? If so, it will "learn" your zones. My first spin class with the Fenix 3 HR had me is Zone 5 so long I had a message that it may have done more damage than good. Three classes later it was pegging my zones perfectly.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Interesting. It is a garmin with an optical but so was my old watch. My zones changed on my own this morning and I'm not sure I like the changes it made.
Hang 10
Footballguy
He's like a cyborg or something. He can't be all flesh and blood like the rest of us.Anyone else notice SteveC's 182 miles last week?
ChiefD
Footballguy
No. I was wallowing in my self pity and glass of beer for being such a lazy loser.Anyone else notice SteveC's 182 miles last week?
Brony
Footballguy
I would get tired driving 182 miles in a week.Anyone else notice SteveC's 182 miles last week?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
It's like a marathon a day, it takes me 30-60 days to recover from a single marathon.Anyone else notice SteveC's 182 miles last week?
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
An up-and-down couple of days for me. Got back from Poland late Saturday and then had to leave again early Monday for work travel.
Bad: Attempted 11 miles on Monday afternoon. Legs were tired from the jump, probably a combination of the jet lag and the 80-degree temps. Pace/heart rate were good through about 6 miles, and then the wheels came off. Gutted out three more miles and called it a day after 9 total. Average pace 8:17/mile.
Good: Solid tempo intervals on the treadmill this morning. 2 mile warm-up, then 2 x 2 miles at 6:44 pace with a 2-minute jog in between. Cooled down for 1.75 miles for 8 miles total. My first speed workout in several months. Felt comfortably uncomfortable, just like it should.
Bad: I did something to my left shoulder lifting weights. I don't know what, but it hurts. Seeing an ortho doc next Wednesday. Hoping it's nothing structural.
Good: Weight down under 222. I continue to try to drop weight without losing (too much) muscle. Really need to focus on taking in protein. Like lots of it. Goal is to race Milwaukee around 210.
Bad: Attempted 11 miles on Monday afternoon. Legs were tired from the jump, probably a combination of the jet lag and the 80-degree temps. Pace/heart rate were good through about 6 miles, and then the wheels came off. Gutted out three more miles and called it a day after 9 total. Average pace 8:17/mile.
Good: Solid tempo intervals on the treadmill this morning. 2 mile warm-up, then 2 x 2 miles at 6:44 pace with a 2-minute jog in between. Cooled down for 1.75 miles for 8 miles total. My first speed workout in several months. Felt comfortably uncomfortable, just like it should.
Bad: I did something to my left shoulder lifting weights. I don't know what, but it hurts. Seeing an ortho doc next Wednesday. Hoping it's nothing structural.
Good: Weight down under 222. I continue to try to drop weight without losing (too much) muscle. Really need to focus on taking in protein. Like lots of it. Goal is to race Milwaukee around 210.
mr. furley
Footballguy
meh, he probably ran it all in one day and took the next 6 offAnyone else notice SteveC's 182 miles last week?
ChiefD
Footballguy
So my last 4 runs look like this:
170 SI. 4.2 miles. 11:18 pace. 162 HR
168 SI. 4.1 miles. 11:25 pace. 155 HR
167 SI. 3 miles. 11:23 pace. 153 HR
168 SI. 3.5 miles. 11:20 pace. 161 HR.
So what's the moral of the story? A couple of things:
1. The heat is a #####.
2. I'm out of shape, but looking back two years ago while running through similar heat during marathon training - not too terrible.
3. My goal is to keep my HR in the 150's if possible right now, since that is typically my sweet spot for General Aerobic.
4. I am getting my "want to" back when it comes to running. Been grumpy on the days when I haven't been able to go, so that's a good sign.
5. My weight is at 157, so only 7 pounds up from where I usually am on race days. I expect to be back down at 150 within a couple of weeks.
So formal half training starts a week from Monday, so my goal right now is just build up as many slow miles as I can before then.
170 SI. 4.2 miles. 11:18 pace. 162 HR
168 SI. 4.1 miles. 11:25 pace. 155 HR
167 SI. 3 miles. 11:23 pace. 153 HR
168 SI. 3.5 miles. 11:20 pace. 161 HR.
So what's the moral of the story? A couple of things:
1. The heat is a #####.
2. I'm out of shape, but looking back two years ago while running through similar heat during marathon training - not too terrible.
3. My goal is to keep my HR in the 150's if possible right now, since that is typically my sweet spot for General Aerobic.
4. I am getting my "want to" back when it comes to running. Been grumpy on the days when I haven't been able to go, so that's a good sign.
5. My weight is at 157, so only 7 pounds up from where I usually am on race days. I expect to be back down at 150 within a couple of weeks.
So formal half training starts a week from Monday, so my goal right now is just build up as many slow miles as I can before then.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Is running in the morning not an option? I'd run on a treadmill if afternoons is all I could do this time of year. Those SI's are just brutal.
ChiefD
Footballguy
It's an option, and I did that through marathon training last year and the year before. And for my long runs on the weekends I will do that.
But to be perfectly honest, I just don't enjoy it. Granted, I feel great when I am done, but still don't enjoy the process.
Waking up early is not my strong suit, and with my new job I need to be there earlier than my previous employment. So I would be getting up even earlier if I did it now. And I started looking at the numbers, and the SI right now at 5 am is still in the 150's.
I guess for me, I would rather have the sleep and suffer later. I'm a little stubborn that way, and to be honest my whole career playing soccer we practiced and did preseason work in this heat all the time. So while it sucks, there is something about it that I can tolerate. I just go slow and be careful, and it's actually been a really good mental test for me to purposely try and keep the HR low during these runs. Been a nice challenge to take my mind off the suck.
I also have a tree lined loop around my house I can run, and I position ice water on the bumper of my car and douse my head every couple of laps. You can probably see that route on strava right now. Not too many uphills.
Last night I actually ran by TWO other guys running. The first guy I yelled out: "Great day for a run, eh?" He laughed.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Just did a little research. So tomorrow at 5AM where you're from the SI will be a steamy 151...yeah, that sucks but at 5PM it's 167! Not only is it way hotter but you're running with the sun beating down on you. I know you say you're not a morning person but 16 SI points is significant enough to adapt IMO. Or as I said before, get on a treadmill.It's an option, and I did that through marathon training last year and the year before. And for my long runs on the weekends I will do that.
But to be perfectly honest, I just don't enjoy it. Granted, I feel great when I am done, but still don't enjoy the process.
Waking up early is not my strong suit, and with my new job I need to be there earlier than my previous employment. So I would be getting up even earlier if I did it now. And I started looking at the numbers, and the SI right now at 5 am is still in the 150's.
I guess for me, I would rather have the sleep and suffer later. I'm a little stubborn that way, and to be honest my whole career playing soccer we practiced and did preseason work in this heat all the time. So while it sucks, there is something about it that I can tolerate. I just go slow and be careful, and it's actually been a really good mental test for me to purposely try and keep the HR low during these runs. Been a nice challenge to take my mind off the suck.
Last night I actually ran by TWO other guys running. The first guy I yelled out: "Great day for a run, eh?" He laughed.
I love HR training but HR is only one aspect of running. I just worry that when heat slows your pace that much, you're not training the rest of your body well enough. I wouldn't want to practice running way slower than I was capable on a consistent basis. Tho...that may just be me.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, very good points.Just did a little research. So tomorrow at 5AM where you're from the SI will be a steamy 151...yeah, that sucks but at 5PM it's 167! Not only is it way hotter but you're running with the sun beating down on you. I know you say you're not a morning person but 16 SI points is significant enough to adapt IMO. Or as I said before, get on a treadmill.
I love HR training but HR is only one aspect of running. I just worry that when heat slows your pace that much, you're not training the rest of your body well enough. I wouldn't want to practice running way slower than I was capable on a consistent basis. Tho...that may just be me.
My weekend long runs will definitely be in the mornings. For those my plan is to be on the road by 5 or 5:30 am.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Stumbled upon what I think is a great recovery drink. Nothing earth shattering and I didnt invent it, but I am enjoying a mix of half chocolate milk and half seltzer water. Tried it after having an egg cream at yankee stadium which is basically the same thing.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
hate seltzer water as a standalone, love chocolate milk but feel (at times) that it could use a little extra oomph. might have to check this out
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Kilian is decent.
Billy Yang just released his Hardrock movie The Unknown focused on Tim Olson's run there last year. Gives a good feel for some of the terrain and scenery. The section from about 15:30-16:00 or so I'm running behind him, I had gone up on the course a mile or two to wait for him and followed him in to Ouray. A quick cameo for your boy when he shakes Jim Walmsley's hand (16:40-16:50) at the aid station.
I gotta get in this race.......
ETA: Jamil Coury released a bunch of pretty much raw footage of his race this year as well. Check out the weather from about 17:00- 20:00.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm lucky to have the Pettit National Ice Center about 30 minutes from my house. There's a 443-meter run/walk track around the skating oval, so it's less than 4 laps per mile. Plus it's a perfectly climate-controlled 55 degrees. I run there often during the winter, but I may head there this weekend for my long run. It'll be 55 laps for my 15-miler, but it beats running in the heat and humidity, and it sure as hell beats running on a treadmill.
Osaurus
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
####
I think I'm pulling out of pinhotti. Just found out I'll be out of town training for work that week. I could fly home and immediately drive down but I'm not feeling that being a good plan. Plus with the new job and bringing our daughter home I'm not seeing the time to train properly. I haven't pulled out yet but I'm leaning that way.
honestly my motivation is lacking.
I think I'm pulling out of pinhotti. Just found out I'll be out of town training for work that week. I could fly home and immediately drive down but I'm not feeling that being a good plan. Plus with the new job and bringing our daughter home I'm not seeing the time to train properly. I haven't pulled out yet but I'm leaning that way.
honestly my motivation is lacking.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Have a nice (running) offseason, guy.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
NOOOOOO! You've been crushing your training this year. And you need to join the WS100 lottery fun with @SayWhat? and I in December! Plus it was going to be two FBGs running 100s on the same weekend, it was going to be epic!####
I think I'm pulling out of pinhotti. Just found out I'll be out of town training for work that week. I could fly home and immediately drive down but I'm not feeling that being a good plan. Plus with the new job and bringing our daughter home I'm not seeing the time to train properly. I haven't pulled out yet but I'm leaning that way.
Totally get when life gets in the way, and you've obviously got some pretty important (and amazing) things happening irl. But (totally selfishly), I hope you find a way to do it.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
I'm not rushing to make any decisions right now but if I don't do it I'll go for broke in the rocket city marathon in December. With an actual running base this year I think I'll do better.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Anybody dealt with pirformis issues? It's literally a pain in the butt, and I think the root of the knee pain I had going into States, the dull ache and constant stubbing of my left foot on rocks in the first 30-40 miles, and the problems I've been having since. I've Dr. Google'd all day today and have read to stretch/don't stretch, trigger point massage/don't, ice/don't ice. Not sure what the hell to do, but it is at the point now that it hurts all the time, not quite to the point of sciatic pain but I do feel a twinge every once in awhile, and my hammy is sore as well.
I know to truly "fix it" I need to strengthen the glutes and hip flexors and I know what to do for that, but not sure how to get this to chill out quickly.
I know to truly "fix it" I need to strengthen the glutes and hip flexors and I know what to do for that, but not sure how to get this to chill out quickly.
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