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Rahim Moore's blunder (1 Viewer)

'Bodeine said:
'knowledge dropper said:
Lewis Billups dropped interception of Montana in 1988 Superbowl.
This is the first one that came to mind when I read the thread title.:John Candy:
Asante Samuel dropped a sure interception of Eli on the drive of 'the Helmet Catch'?
 
For us older guys, Jackie Smith (i know not a defensive player).http://www.nfl.com/videos/dallas-cowboys/09000d5d8208e5d2/Cowboys-blunders-Jackie-Smith

 
It's right up there with the coach that decided he'd kneel down with 30 seconds left in a tie game, with 2 timeouts, and Peyton Manning. I'm not sure if this was even the biggest blunder in the last minute of this particular game.
Could not believe that, throw in fact that Ravens had no TOs left, the Broncos had already posted 35 points and that you only have to look at a WR to get a PI call these days and the decision looks even worse.
are you suggesting a trindon holliday end around, or something?
 
'DaveL said:
'wdcrob said:
'Bodeine said:
'knowledge dropper said:
Lewis Billups dropped interception of Montana in 1988 Superbowl.
This is the first one that came to mind when I read the thread title.
Mine too. Had the SuperBowl in his hands on an easy pick and didn't make the play.
I wouldn't say he had the Superbowl in his hands...if I recall that play was in the 3rd quarter. Sure the Bengals would have still been up but...way too early to put the entire game on his drop
Thought it was the play before SF took the lead. I remember hoping SF should play it safe and take the FG after that play.
Actually you're right. Was the beginning of the 4th Q, right before the 49ers scored.
 
'pbandy1 said:
'Sebowski said:
Wes Welker's drop in last year's Super Bowl.
ya... not even close. Wasn't even that bad of a drop.
Can't understand why Brady doesn't get more heat for what a bad pass this was.
Bedard put that on brady - it's just the casual fans that need a scapegoat to crucify like welket, buckner, or moore.It's like the last guy they see before they blacked out, or something
 
It wasn't Brady's best throw but it hit Welker in the hands and after dropping the pass, he immediately put his head in his hands, knowing that he should have caught that ball.

 
Can you people read? Buckner, Webber, the James worthy play, not football plays. The Moore play was the worst I've ever seen. Much worse than Ike Taylor getting beaten badly by D. Thomas last year in the playoffs.

 
'pbandy1 said:
'Sebowski said:
Wes Welker's drop in last year's Super Bowl.
ya... not even close. Wasn't even that bad of a drop.
Can't understand why Brady doesn't get more heat for what a bad pass this was.
He absolutely should, as that play was more on him than the 5' 9" Welker. Not to mention he had thrown an INT earlier, underthrowing an open Gronkowski. But his early postseason success has granted him immunity from such criticism.
 
Adalius Thomas and Richard Seymour seemingly just letting go of Eli manning and letting the Tyree play happen. Watched that play a 1000x and still don't know how Eli doesn't go down

 
Can you people read?

Buckner, Webber, the James worthy play, not football plays.
Notice that the OP has been edited. The subtitle and last line of the OP specifying a defensive football play were later added because the OP was originally ambiguously written.And it was the OP that first referenced Buckner and Webber which added to the ambiguity...

Although it won't be remember as such, it wasn't far off of Bill Buckner or Chris Webber. Leon Lett had the fumble in the Super bowl, but the game was over. Am I missing some other plays on this level?

Introducing different sports and then asking for "other plays" at that level without specifying football plays creates ambiguity. It's like saying...

Sofia Vegara is really hot. I'm talking Hugh Jackman levels of hotness. Can you think of anyone else at that level of hotness?

"Anyone" coupled with the Jackman comparison of hotness, leaves the reader unsure whether the person is asking specifically for a really hot woman or anyone, dudes included, that are really hot.

This post sponsored by the Hugh Jakman for Best Actor lobby.

 
'Jewell said:
'HughHoney said:
Can you people read? Buckner, Webber, the James worthy play, not football plays.
Notice that the OP has been edited. The subtitle and last line of the OP specifying a defensive football play were later added because the OP was originally ambiguously written.
Actually I only added the last line. The subtitle and the first sentence which both mentioned defensive plays/players were there from the start. In bringing in other sports, I was just trying to characterize its level of dumb, but admittedly I confused the issue. Regardless, while my point was to compare to other plays by NFL defenders, the other sports references brought up are still interesting.
 
'Jewell said:
'HughHoney said:
Can you people read? Buckner, Webber, the James worthy play, not football plays.
Notice that the OP has been edited. The subtitle and last line of the OP specifying a defensive football play were later added because the OP was originally ambiguously written.
Actually I only added the last line. The subtitle and the first sentence which both mentioned defensive plays/players were there from the start. In bringing in other sports, I was just trying to characterize its level of dumb, but admittedly I confused the issue. Regardless, while my point was to compare to other plays by NFL defenders, the other sports references brought up are still interesting.
:thumbup: I love the thread... regardless of whether we're assessing where Moore's blunder ranks among defensive football blunders... or all sports blunders.Ultimately, I don't think that Moore's play will be remembered among the most boneheaded plays in NFL history (even if it was) for two main reasons.First, it wasn't the last play of the game.Second, Moore is a relative unknown.For those saying that Moore's play won't be remembered because it was only the Divisional Round. Romo's botched hold is almost universally remembered and recalled often even though it was in a Wildcard Game. That play get's referenced and thus remembered more because it was the last play of the game and Romo is a big name player.
 
Worst play... John Fox kneeling out both halves with 30ish seconds to go & Peyton Manning at QB. Fox had time to think about it. Moore had a partial second hesitation. Conservative always seems to fail in the playoffs. Why can't these guys learn from past mistakes?

 
'DaveL said:
'wdcrob said:
'Bodeine said:
'knowledge dropper said:
Lewis Billups dropped interception of Montana in 1988 Superbowl.
This is the first one that came to mind when I read the thread title.
Mine too. Had the SuperBowl in his hands on an easy pick and didn't make the play.
I wouldn't say he had the Superbowl in his hands...if I recall that play was in the 3rd quarter. Sure the Bengals would have still been up but...way too early to put the entire game on his drop
Thought it was the play before SF took the lead. I remember hoping SF should play it safe and take the FG after that play.
Actually you're right. Was the beginning of the 4th Q, right before the 49ers scored.
It happened with less than 2 minutes left in the game. Montana to JT on the very next play to go up 20-16.
 
Hardly as important, but in '93 Marty Moore (ironically like McCree from the Univ of Kentucky - we seem to have a propensity for such plays) intercepted a pass against Clemson with less than a minute to go in the Peach Bowl. Instead of falling on it, he tried to run it back. You can guess what happened from there.Moore went on to become the first Mr. Irrelevant to play in the Super Bowl and had an eight-year career primarily with the Pats.

 
Props to Moore for being a stand-up guy about the play, but him saying, "Next time it won't happen," was laughable. That is a play that should never happen once.

 
Buckner's error continues to be the most over blown mistake of all time. Calvin Shiraldi lost that game, not Buckner. The game was TIED when Buckner was unable to get low enough on that grounder to make a play on knees he should not have even been playing on. It was a dismal performance by Shiraldi that lost that game. That Mets team... once they tied the game, I KNEW they would win it. Buckner's error just made it happen an inning sooner. Many forget the Mets were down going into the 6th inning of game seven, but again, I KNEW they would beat the Red Sox. Buckner is sports history's all time undeserved scape goat. Back on topic, the safety bit on the underneath route when his responsability was deep side line. One of the biggest mental mistakes I've ever seen in any big game in any sport. Having said that, the CB is also to blame. Defending against a hook pattern there was equally idiotic. He NEVER should have let the WR get behind him. NEVER.That was a complete coverage breakdown by both the safety AND the CB. Sad to see the better team lose because of two idiots who don't know how to plat two minute defense. Pathetic.

 
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The safety obviously made a horrendous play. But what gets me is the defensive play call. The one thing that can't happen is to get beat deep. It looked like the defensive play call was a 2-deep zone. Not man-under with 2 deep where the CB runs with the WR all over the field and also receives deep help. It was a pure 2 deep zone. The corner released the WR to the safety. That meant that the safety would be 1 on 1 with any WR who ran a deep pattern.How on earth does the defensive coordinator call merely a 2 deep zone in that circumstance? How can the DC allow a WR to be 1 on 1 with a safety? It absolutely blows my mind that the DC would not have anyone running deep to be double covered. Blame Moore if you want. And it was a horrible play. Blame Peyton for a horrible throw if you want. But neither would be the goat if the DC didnt completely eff up the defensive play call to begin with.

 
Back on topic, the safety bit on the underneath route when his responsability was deep side line. One of the biggest mental mistakes I've ever seen in any big game in any sport.
The worst part is that not only was it a horrible mental mistake, but then the throw hung in the air for so long that it gave him time to recover and he blew it again by mis-judging the ball.
 
The safety obviously made a horrendous play. But what gets me is the defensive play call. The one thing that can't happen is to get beat deep. It looked like the defensive play call was a 2-deep zone. Not man-under with 2 deep where the CB runs with the WR all over the field and also receives deep help. It was a pure 2 deep zone. The corner released the WR to the safety. That meant that the safety would be 1 on 1 with any WR who ran a deep pattern.How on earth does the defensive coordinator call merely a 2 deep zone in that circumstance? How can the DC allow a WR to be 1 on 1 with a safety? It absolutely blows my mind that the DC would not have anyone running deep to be double covered. Blame Moore if you want. And it was a horrible play. Blame Peyton for a horrible throw if you want. But neither would be the goat if the DC didnt completely eff up the defensive play call to begin with.
Ironically, the coaching call that cost Denver the most came about because they were not conservative ENOUGH. For all the heat prevent defense gets, if Denver had played it, they'd probably be hosting the AFCCG next week.
 
The safety obviously made a horrendous play. But what gets me is the defensive play call. The one thing that can't happen is to get beat deep. It looked like the defensive play call was a 2-deep zone. Not man-under with 2 deep where the CB runs with the WR all over the field and also receives deep help. It was a pure 2 deep zone. The corner released the WR to the safety. That meant that the safety would be 1 on 1 with any WR who ran a deep pattern.How on earth does the defensive coordinator call merely a 2 deep zone in that circumstance? How can the DC allow a WR to be 1 on 1 with a safety? It absolutely blows my mind that the DC would not have anyone running deep to be double covered. Blame Moore if you want. And it was a horrible play. Blame Peyton for a horrible throw if you want. But neither would be the goat if the DC didnt completely eff up the defensive play call to begin with.
They showed a reverse angle replay of this last night. First of all Moore took a horrible angle at that stage of the game. That being said he still had time to recover, but instead of running to Jacoby he started backpedaling and lost all of his speed. A tackle of Jacoby could have ended the game. At worst the Ravens might have been able to lineup and spike it for one more play at about the 30. It was a totally blown coverage at the worst possible moment.
 
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The safety obviously made a horrendous play. But what gets me is the defensive play call. The one thing that can't happen is to get beat deep. It looked like the defensive play call was a 2-deep zone. Not man-under with 2 deep where the CB runs with the WR all over the field and also receives deep help. It was a pure 2 deep zone. The corner released the WR to the safety. That meant that the safety would be 1 on 1 with any WR who ran a deep pattern.How on earth does the defensive coordinator call merely a 2 deep zone in that circumstance? How can the DC allow a WR to be 1 on 1 with a safety? It absolutely blows my mind that the DC would not have anyone running deep to be double covered.
:goodposting: It was a horrendous play call too. The CB release of Jones made no sense, even if there was someone for him to cover (I don't think there was) underneath. If they throw a short ball and the guy gets tackled in bounds, it's a killer for the Ravens. Even if he gets out of bounds, it still is a bad play because there is such little time left.
 
I know that John Fox took over the worst Broncos team I have ever seen. I know that this year, he presided over the best Broncos squad I've seen since 1998, and easily one of the ten best Broncos teams of all time (I'd say pretty comfortably one of the five best).
How do you judge the all time Broncos teams in order to make this determination? Offensive and defensive ranks are important, I assume, but do you adjust for SOS? Didn't Denver have a really easy schedule this year that may have served to inflate their record and those offensive and defensive rankings?I don't have a mental ranking of all time Broncos teams, but I have a hard time believing this year's team was one of the top 5.

 
I know that John Fox took over the worst Broncos team I have ever seen. I know that this year, he presided over the best Broncos squad I've seen since 1998, and easily one of the ten best Broncos teams of all time (I'd say pretty comfortably one of the five best).
How do you judge the all time Broncos teams in order to make this determination? Offensive and defensive ranks are important, I assume, but do you adjust for SOS? Didn't Denver have a really easy schedule this year that may have served to inflate their record and those offensive and defensive rankings?I don't have a mental ranking of all time Broncos teams, but I have a hard time believing this year's team was one of the top 5.
This year's Denver team tied the best scoring differential in Denver history (the co-holder of that honor is exactly the team you'd expect- the 1998 Denver squad). The 2012 Broncos had an easy schedule (3rd easiest in team history, according to PFR's SoS calculations)... but that's irrelevant to the comparison, because the 1998 team had a substantially easier schedule still (easiest in team history, and roughly on par with the 2012 Colts schedule). PFR's SRS rankings (which are adjusted for SoS) rank this Broncos team as the 4th best of all time, behind 1977, 2005, and 1997. DVOA (which is opponent adjusted, and goes back to 1991) ranked this Broncos team as not just the best Broncos squad, but one of the 10 best teams period. So the numbers- even adjusted for SoS- make a very strong case.This isn't just a numbers ranking, though. While the 2005 team did extremely well in the advanced metrics, I wouldn't rank them as one of the 5 best Broncos teams of all time. Their defensive prowess was largely built on smoke and mirrors (that was the biggest blitzing team I have ever seen, though I never saw the Gritz Blitz), and when the blitz didn't get there, they were mediocre. That sort of high-variance play doesn't really lend itself to a one-and-done tournament. Plummer was wildly underrated during his tenure as a Bronco, and that rushing attack was one of the best in history, but no way is any offense featuring Plummer/Anderson/Bell as lethal as the Elway/Davis/Smith/McCaffrey/Sharpe or Peyton/Demaryius/Decker/Tamme varieties. 2005 was a team that built an amazing resume that overstated its true quality. It was one of the top 10 Broncos teams, but not top 5.

Anyway, if I were ranking the top 5 Denver squads, I would start with 1977, 1997, and 1998. These were clearly the top 3. 1998 looked the most impressive, but as I said, it played far and away the easiest schedule in franchise history. 1997 wasn't quite as high-flying, but when you factor in the higher degree of difficulty in their schedule (which was still below average), it stands up well. 1977 was almost as dominant, and did it against the 4th toughest schedule in team history. After that, the contenders would be 1989 (the best of those late-80s SB losers), 2005 (already discussed), and 1996. 1996 is actually interesting, because it's a very similar team to this year's. Both teams were coming off of 8-8 seasons. Both were in the second year of a new coaching regime. Both finished 13-3, earned the #1 seed, and lost at home to a double digit underdog. This year had a much better scoring differential, but 1996 faced a tougher schedule. Ultimately, I'd take this year's team over 1996- the pass rush and passing game this year were so deadly, and 1996's running game hadn't quite hit the otherworldly level of the '97-'98 teams. Other possible contenders for "top 5" status would be 1991 (12-4, but a terrible scoring differential against a below-average schedule- just not a dominant team) and 1984 (13-3 with a wicked defense, but that offense was mediocre). And, of course, the other two SB seasons, but I'm not calling a team one of the five best in franchise history just because they happened to be two of the worst SB participants in NFL history. That leaves 2012 and 1989 filling out the final two spots in the "top 5 Denver Broncos teams of all time" list, with 1996, 2005, 1991, 1984, and... I guess 1986 rounding out the top 10.

This year's Denver team had the best passing attack in franchise history. It also had the best pass rush in franchise history. They're one of the few teams in history to finish 1st in NY/A and NY/A allowed. In a league so dominated by the pass, this year's team clearly rates up there with the Denver great, despite a mediocre rushing attack and turnover differential.

 
Asante Samuel dropping the game-clinching INT vs. NYG in 2007. Would've sealed 19-0 season.
Hadn't thought of that. That might be on the same level, but more so because the moment was bigger. The INT wasn't easy though, as Samuel had to jump and extend his arms out to get his hands on the ball. And IIRC, it wasn't a given that Samuel would have gotten both feet in bounds.
Just watched it again and couldn't agree more.It would've taken an amazing play ... it certainly wasn't a dropped int

 
I know that John Fox took over the worst Broncos team I have ever seen. I know that this year, he presided over the best Broncos squad I've seen since 1998, and easily one of the ten best Broncos teams of all time (I'd say pretty comfortably one of the five best).
How do you judge the all time Broncos teams in order to make this determination? Offensive and defensive ranks are important, I assume, but do you adjust for SOS? Didn't Denver have a really easy schedule this year that may have served to inflate their record and those offensive and defensive rankings?I don't have a mental ranking of all time Broncos teams, but I have a hard time believing this year's team was one of the top 5.
This year's Denver team tied the best scoring differential in Denver history (the co-holder of that honor is exactly the team you'd expect- the 1998 Denver squad). The 2012 Broncos had an easy schedule (3rd easiest in team history, according to PFR's SoS calculations)... but that's irrelevant to the comparison, because the 1998 team had a substantially easier schedule still (easiest in team history, and roughly on par with the 2012 Colts schedule). PFR's SRS rankings (which are adjusted for SoS) rank this Broncos team as the 4th best of all time, behind 1977, 2005, and 1997. DVOA (which is opponent adjusted, and goes back to 1991) ranked this Broncos team as not just the best Broncos squad, but one of the 10 best teams period. So the numbers- even adjusted for SoS- make a very strong case.This isn't just a numbers ranking, though. While the 2005 team did extremely well in the advanced metrics, I wouldn't rank them as one of the 5 best Broncos teams of all time. Their defensive prowess was largely built on smoke and mirrors (that was the biggest blitzing team I have ever seen, though I never saw the Gritz Blitz), and when the blitz didn't get there, they were mediocre. That sort of high-variance play doesn't really lend itself to a one-and-done tournament. Plummer was wildly underrated during his tenure as a Bronco, and that rushing attack was one of the best in history, but no way is any offense featuring Plummer/Anderson/Bell as lethal as the Elway/Davis/Smith/McCaffrey/Sharpe or Peyton/Demaryius/Decker/Tamme varieties. 2005 was a team that built an amazing resume that overstated its true quality. It was one of the top 10 Broncos teams, but not top 5.

Anyway, if I were ranking the top 5 Denver squads, I would start with 1977, 1997, and 1998. These were clearly the top 3. 1998 looked the most impressive, but as I said, it played far and away the easiest schedule in franchise history. 1997 wasn't quite as high-flying, but when you factor in the higher degree of difficulty in their schedule (which was still below average), it stands up well. 1977 was almost as dominant, and did it against the 4th toughest schedule in team history. After that, the contenders would be 1989 (the best of those late-80s SB losers), 2005 (already discussed), and 1996. 1996 is actually interesting, because it's a very similar team to this year's. Both teams were coming off of 8-8 seasons. Both were in the second year of a new coaching regime. Both finished 13-3, earned the #1 seed, and lost at home to a double digit underdog. This year had a much better scoring differential, but 1996 faced a tougher schedule. Ultimately, I'd take this year's team over 1996- the pass rush and passing game this year were so deadly, and 1996's running game hadn't quite hit the otherworldly level of the '97-'98 teams. Other possible contenders for "top 5" status would be 1991 (12-4, but a terrible scoring differential against a below-average schedule- just not a dominant team) and 1984 (13-3 with a wicked defense, but that offense was mediocre). And, of course, the other two SB seasons, but I'm not calling a team one of the five best in franchise history just because they happened to be two of the worst SB participants in NFL history. That leaves 2012 and 1989 filling out the final two spots in the "top 5 Denver Broncos teams of all time" list, with 1996, 2005, 1991, 1984, and... I guess 1986 rounding out the top 10.

This year's Denver team had the best passing attack in franchise history. It also had the best pass rush in franchise history. They're one of the few teams in history to finish 1st in NY/A and NY/A allowed. In a league so dominated by the pass, this year's team clearly rates up there with the Denver great, despite a mediocre rushing attack and turnover differential.
Good info, and surprising (to me). One thing, when you talk SOS, are you including postseason? It seems postseason opponents should be included in this kind of discussion, since this discussion is not limited to regular season. That should mitigate the 1998 team's regular season SOS.
 
Good info, and surprising (to me). One thing, when you talk SOS, are you including postseason? It seems postseason opponents should be included in this kind of discussion, since this discussion is not limited to regular season. That should mitigate the 1998 team's regular season SOS.
No, I'm just using the pfr numbers, which are based off of opposing teams' SRS instead of raw winning percentage, and which don't include playoffs. You're right that 1998 Broncos played a ridiculous slate in the playoffs, though. It's also yet another reason why Terrell Davis is so underrated. Not only is he the most dominant postseason rusher in history (by a pretty hefty margin), but he did it against a pretty ridiculous set of defenses.
 
The safety obviously made a horrendous play. But what gets me is the defensive play call. The one thing that can't happen is to get beat deep. It looked like the defensive play call was a 2-deep zone. Not man-under with 2 deep where the CB runs with the WR all over the field and also receives deep help. It was a pure 2 deep zone. The corner released the WR to the safety. That meant that the safety would be 1 on 1 with any WR who ran a deep pattern.How on earth does the defensive coordinator call merely a 2 deep zone in that circumstance? How can the DC allow a WR to be 1 on 1 with a safety? It absolutely blows my mind that the DC would not have anyone running deep to be double covered.
:goodposting: It was a horrendous play call too. The CB release of Jones made no sense, even if there was someone for him to cover (I don't think there was) underneath. If they throw a short ball and the guy gets tackled in bounds, it's a killer for the Ravens. Even if he gets out of bounds, it still is a bad play because there is such little time left.
:goodposting: bad plays are often set up by bad coaching.
 
Good info, and surprising (to me). One thing, when you talk SOS, are you including postseason? It seems postseason opponents should be included in this kind of discussion, since this discussion is not limited to regular season. That should mitigate the 1998 team's regular season SOS.
No, I'm just using the pfr numbers, which are based off of opposing teams' SRS instead of raw winning percentage, and which don't include playoffs. You're right that 1998 Broncos played a ridiculous slate in the playoffs, though. It's also yet another reason why Terrell Davis is so underrated. Not only is he the most dominant postseason rusher in history (by a pretty hefty margin), but he did it against a pretty ridiculous set of defenses.
:goodposting: In the '98 postseason: 21-199-2 against Miami's 3rd ranked defense (and could have been a lot more, as he had most of that by midway through the 3rd quarter and didn't play a lot of the 4th cause they were up by so much) 32-167-1 against NYJ's 7th ranked defense25-102-0 against Atlanta's 8th ranked defense
 
'ninerfanatic492000 said:
Adalius Thomas and Richard Seymour seemingly just letting go of Eli manning and letting the Tyree play happen. Watched that play a 1000x and still don't know how Eli doesn't go down
Maybe some of the most egregious uncalled holding ever seen had something to do with it. Seymour gets all but undressed on the play.
 
I can't think of a worse play by a defender in a big situation Moore wasn't playing deep enough to begin with. But even then Flacco's throw had enough air on that Moore had time to recover, yet he stopped short because he completely misjudged the ball.Although it won't be remember as such, it wasn't far off of Bill Buckner or Chris Webber. Leon Lett had the fumble in the Super bowl, but the game was over. Am I missing some other plays on this level?ETA: I'm specifically asking about plays by an NFL defender.
I think the only thing close to a Buckner or Webber play was Jackie Smith dropping a wide open sweet touch pass while all ALONE in the end zone from Roger Staubach in the third quarter in a game the Cowboys lost 35-31, a game which Smith literally single handedly cost them.Like Buckner, Jackie Smith played a lifetime of solid under-appreciated quality ball with a poor franchise (the Cards) to finally get a late career shot at a championship with another team.Funny thing is how baseball magnifies these big mistakes for decades and few remember the big screw-ups in football. The only exception might be missed game winning kicks and you can file that one under Scott Norwood.I can't think of anything remotely close to Smith's drop or Norwood's miss.****Blame for the Rahim Moore play has to go to the coordinator. The Saints had bigger defensive collapses vs San Fran in 2011 and vs Seattle in 2010 and probably quite a few teams have had similar. Atlanta had one the very next day. The real problem is when the DC fails to call the right defense that would "prevent" his player from being in that situation in the first place
 
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