Question for employers - Sick Employee (1 Viewer)

[jb1020]

I figured the FFA could give me some insight on this...

I started a small business in Jan of 2013. We have a total of 9 on our staff. One of our employees got sick recently and then a few days later she found out it was cancer. No one here is really sure of her prognosis yet other than her chemo and radiation will last about 6 weeks.

Purely from an employment standpoint....what do you do? This person is way past their vacation/paid time off. We do have a short term disability plan (6 weeks) laid out in our employee manual that will pay a percentage of their paycheck for times like this.

Do you keep paying this person? Their status is just so unknown, it might be 6 week, it might be 6 months, they might not ever come back/survive.

The agency that has our health insurance really hasn't been much help. She basically said "well the bigger companies tend to keep paying and wait these things out." Well, that doesn't help us in the least bit. We scrap by pretty much on a month to month basis. On top of paying someone who isn't working, we have to hire a replacement.

Anyone ever dealt with this?

 

[kutta]

I had a guy go out for back problems recently. He used his vacation and sick time, and then short term disability. I would not continue to pay as usual, because then when do you stop? The safety nets are there for a reason and they should be used.

 

[VA703]

agreed with above poster. who knows how long the treatments will take. go with the short term disability then its LWOP

 

[Patriotsfatboy1]

Do you pay for their health insurance? I can't see paying both for insurance and for salary/pay. Perhaps a little conversation that indicates that you don't want to be insensitive, but...

 

[BoltzNBrew]

I would think she would have to file for short/long term disability. I would not fire her but it seems odd you would pay someones salary that is not actually there and working regardless of the situation.

 

[jomar]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

 

[parasaurolophus]

Agree with above that you dont pay her.

 

[Henry Ford]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

She hasn't been there for 12 months yet. They haven't even been in existence that long.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Which state?

Unpaid medical leave. In many states, short term disability is required for all FT employees, and deducted from payroll automatically.

For going forward purposes, check with your insurance broker about adding LTD. We provide that for all our employees and pay the premiums - it's fairly low cost. I think they have to exhaust their STD before they are eligible to apply for LTD.

I'm not a big fan of supplemental but we also offer AFLAC but don't cover the premiums. FWIW our workforce is about 3x yours.

 

[BobbyLayne]

FMLA only applies to companies with 50 or more employees, correct?

 

[jomar]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

She hasn't been there for 12 months yet. They haven't even been in existence that long.

jan 2013 - present = over 12 months. although he long she has been employed hasn't been stated.

 

[jomar]

FMLA only applies to companies with 50 or more employees, correct?

from my limited knowledge and dealings with an employment lawyer, I believe 50 is the cutoff but there are additional loopholes. for example, we have an Ohio office with 20 employees while our Michigan office has 100. Our Ohio employees are not entitled to FMLA.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Hope she's not on your medical plan?

If she is your renewal rates just went throught the roof.

 

[BobbyLayne]

FMLA only applies to companies with 50 or more employees, correct?

from my limited knowledge and dealings with an employment lawyer, I believe 50 is the cutoff but there are additional loopholes. for example, we have an Ohio office with 20 employees while our Michigan office has 100. Our Ohio employees are not entitled to FMLA.

IME Most of these situations have state specific application of the law. We have employees in 8 states and it's a ##### keeping track of the nuances.

 

[zamboni]

That's a real tough predicament. Obviously nothing like hers, but still makes it tough on you as a small business owner.

You don't want to be callous, but if you can't afford to be a mensch and keep paying her, I don't see what option you have other than to stop. Sounds like you need to have a frank conversation with her, or if she is not up to it, her family/loved ones.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I was on my phone earlier; I see the OP is

• Location:jackson, ms

I got no clue how things work down there.

 

[shadyridr]

Which state?

Unpaid medical leave. In many states, short term disability is required for all FT employees, and deducted from payroll automatically.

For going forward purposes, check with your insurance broker about adding LTD. We provide that for all our employees and pay the premiums - it's fairly low cost. I think they have to exhaust their STD before they are eligible to apply for LTD.

I'm not a big fan of supplemental but we also offer AFLAC but don't cover the premiums. FWIW our workforce is about 3x yours.

Only 5 (NY, NJ, CA, RI, & HI

 

[bigbottom]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

She hasn't been there for 12 months yet. They haven't even been in existence that long.

He was referring to other, larger companies, not the OP's business.

 

[Henry Ford]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

She hasn't been there for 12 months yet. They haven't even been in existence that long.

jan 2013 - present = over 12 months. although he long she has been employed hasn't been stated.

Ah. Sorry, I read that as June. My bad.

 

[Henry Ford]

they need to use their vacation and PTO, then use the STD, then use LTD if available. there's no way a small employer can be expected to keep paying an employee on leave. I also doubt a larger employee would keep paying somebody in this situation. they may allow them to stay on their health plan but they wouldn't be getting paid. A larger employer would be required to put the on FMLA for 12-14 weeks, I forget how long it is....

She hasn't been there for 12 months yet. They haven't even been in existence that long.

He was referring to other, larger companies, not the OP's business.

No, I know. I thought the business was started in June, and was just saying that if that were the case, they still wouldn't have to put her on FMLA leave. But obviously I misread.

 

[shadyridr]

Why one earth would you keep paying her? Good luck having a viable company that pays 100% LTD benefit. She'll stay out of work the rest of her life. Honestly, she probably doesnt even expect to be paid (who would be?) so not sure why you would need to have a frank conversation with her about it.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why one earth would you keep paying her? Good luck having a viable company that pays 100% LTD benefit. She'll stay out of work the rest of her life. Honestly, she probably doesnt even expect to be paid (who would be?) so not sure why you would need to have a frank conversation with her about it.

Because she's an employee who helped create the business. She deserves at least a frank conversation about what the business is going to do now.

 

[jb1020]

To answer a few questions...

Yes, she is on our medical plan and we pay it for our employees.

We have been in existence for over a year. And while we are a "new company" we were created out of a dissolution of another company that was around for about 30 years. Between the 2 companies she had been here about 4 years. We didn't make everyone start new with PTO, we just honored it. She is still out of it though.

I think we're about to offer the short term plan and continue to pay her insurance. That buys us 6 weeks.

After that we aren't really sure...thinking stop paying her and offer to keep her on our insurance for the next 3-6 months.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Maybe some of the other employees would volunteer some of their sick/vacation time if needed. Worth asking.

 

[shadyridr]

Why one earth would you keep paying her? Good luck having a viable company that pays 100% LTD benefit. She'll stay out of work the rest of her life. Honestly, she probably doesnt even expect to be paid (who would be?) so not sure why you would need to have a frank conversation with her about it.

Because she's an employee who helped create the business. She deserves at least a frank conversation about what the business is going to do now.

Shes an employee of the company. I cant imagine she thinks she'll continue to be paid.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Which state?

Unpaid medical leave. In many states, short term disability is required for all FT employees, and deducted from payroll automatically.

For going forward purposes, check with your insurance broker about adding LTD. We provide that for all our employees and pay the premiums - it's fairly low cost. I think they have to exhaust their STD before they are eligible to apply for LTD.

I'm not a big fan of supplemental but we also offer AFLAC but don't cover the premiums. FWIW our workforce is about 3x yours.

Only 5 (NY, NJ, CA, RI, & HI

Good info, thanks. We have one employee each in five states, the rest are CA/NJ/NY.

 

[jb1020]

Why one earth would you keep paying her? Good luck having a viable company that pays 100% LTD benefit. She'll stay out of work the rest of her life. Honestly, she probably doesnt even expect to be paid (who would be?) so not sure why you would need to have a frank conversation with her about it.

Because she's an employee who helped create the business. She deserves at least a frank conversation about what the business is going to do now.

Yeah, obviously we can't do it forever, but we can;t just cut her loose either. We do that and she losses her insurance, which would pretty much sink her and her family. She stuck with us when our first business dissolved.

 

[BobbyLayne]

To answer a few questions...

Yes, she is on our medical plan and we pay it for our employees.

We have been in existence for over a year. And while we are a "new company" we were created out of a dissolution of another company that was around for about 30 years. Between the 2 companies she had been here about 4 years. We didn't make everyone start new with PTO, we just honored it. She is still out of it though.

I think we're about to offer the short term plan and continue to pay her insurance. That buys us 6 weeks.

After that we aren't really sure...thinking stop paying her and offer to keep her on our insurance for the next 3-6 months.

That is generous. Are you sure non-employees can continue to be insured? Or does she have to convert to a COBRA policy (asking, I'm not sure).

Not sure about your rates, but that would cost us $3-$5K for singles and $6-12K in health insurance alone.

Tricky here because you are basically developing policy on the fly on an individual case basis here. Do you have an outside counsel you could run this by?

I would do 90-180 day unpaid medical leave with benefits (for no logical reason, I just know that's what we would deem fair). Or terminate with an offer to continue paying COBRA premiums for six months.

And definitely think about adding a low cost LTD benefit for going forward purposes.

 

[jb1020]

To answer a few questions...

Yes, she is on our medical plan and we pay it for our employees.

We have been in existence for over a year. And while we are a "new company" we were created out of a dissolution of another company that was around for about 30 years. Between the 2 companies she had been here about 4 years. We didn't make everyone start new with PTO, we just honored it. She is still out of it though.

I think we're about to offer the short term plan and continue to pay her insurance. That buys us 6 weeks.

After that we aren't really sure...thinking stop paying her and offer to keep her on our insurance for the next 3-6 months.

That is generous. Are you sure non-employees can continue to be insured? Or does she have to convert to a COBRA policy (asking, I'm not sure).

Not sure about your rates, but that would cost us $3-$5K for singles and $6-12K in health insurance alone.

Tricky here because you are basically developing policy on the fly on an individual case basis here. Do you have an outside counsel you could run this by?

I would do 90-180 day unpaid medical leave with benefits (for no logical reason, I just know that's what we would deem fair). Or terminate with an offer to continue paying COBRA premiums for six months.

And definitely think about adding a low cost LTD benefit for going forward purposes.

It would be converted to a COBRA plan. And yes, it's not cheap to pay for health insurance. It is roughly $5k per employee.

Yeah, this is uncharted territory for sure. We just don't want to do anything to open ourselves up to something later.

I think after the short term runs out, we're going to do the COBRA for 6 months, no salary.

 

[zamboni]

Why one earth would you keep paying her? Good luck having a viable company that pays 100% LTD benefit. She'll stay out of work the rest of her life. Honestly, she probably doesnt even expect to be paid (who would be?) so not sure why you would need to have a frank conversation with her about it.

Because she's an employee who helped create the business. She deserves at least a frank conversation about what the business is going to do now.

That, and maybe the OP wants to be a bit human since it's a small business where everyone knows each other. As opposed to a large company that doesn't know or give a rat's ### about most of their employees.