QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (1 Viewer)

[pollardsvision]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

Not changing anything. You're blaming the Ravens, saying they've made bad choices signing free agent WRs. It's been pointed out to you that most WR free agent signings have been complete busts, so I'd argue that they've made pretty good choices in not signing free agent WRs. Much better to whiff on a guy you're paying peanuts to than to blow a ton of money on someone like Kenny Golladay or Allen Robinson.

Brown is a pretty good WR, yes he wanted out- why do you think that is? Time will tell on Bateman, and nice touch adding him blaming the Ravens. Really hits home your other false narrative.

I know, not everyone can be the Raiders and hit home runs consistently at WR like Henry Ruggs. Not sure if you've noticed, but it gets harder hitting on draft picks when you're consistently picking towards the bottom of the draft. That tends to happen to good teams.

Very true. Ravens have had 2 losing seasons since George W. Bush was President. Only 5 this century. WIth mostly bad/mediocre QB's.

They aren't perfect, but when we start playing the "Ravens can't put a good supporting cast together" card, that's starting to feel like a reach.

A lot working against Lamar here, but one of the biggest is the organization he's dealing with. This ain't the Browns.

 

[massraider]

Look at the Patriots. The best organization.

They have drafted a ton of WRs. It's a running joke to say that they draft WRs badly.

Don't think I am insulting the honor of the Ravens front office by saying uhh, you've really been spinning your wheels at WR for a while.

I know, not everyone can be the Raiders and hit home runs consistently at WR like Henry Ruggs. Not sure if you've noticed, but it gets harder hitting on draft picks when you're consistently picking towards the bottom of the draft. That tends to happen to good teams.

If I posted that above list as a lit of free agent WRs the Raiders have signed, would you be making excuses?

 

[Chaka]

They also keep a solid Oline in front of him

Sort of.

After being an All-Pro in 2019 Ronnie Stanley has missed 32 games over the last three seasons.

Then they lost Orlando Brown after 2020.

The line has been okay, at best since 2020.

PFF pass blocking grades for the Ravens offense, and the rank of each grade:

• 2019 - 87.0, #1
• 2020 - 70.8, tied for #10
• 2021 - 69.7, #13
• 2022 - 80.2, #2

That is better than "okay, at best" IMO.

Well if PFF says so...then they definitely got significantly worse after 2019.

Somehow I would guess the difference between 10 & 20 is small and, by most measures arbitrary. Besides "Hooray, we're top 12!" Is a chant rarely used outside the NCAA tournament.

What about their run blocking grade? Overall grade? Individual grades? What allowances does PFF make for a QB with such amazing mobility?

I'm comfortable sticking with "okay, at best". Particularly with Stanley so frequently out of the lineup.

 

[The Duff Man]

There have been a lot of good WRs traded for first round picks lately if the Ravens wanted to go that route.

 

[Chaka]

Notable Ravens WR free agent signings since 2018 and age at signing:

DeSean Jackson (35)
Dez Bryant (31)
Michael Floyd (30)
Michael Crabtree (30)
Sammy Watkins (2x: 29, 27)
Seth Roberts (28)
John Brown (27)
Demarcus Robinson (27)
Chris Moore (26)
Willie Snead (25)

Nelson Aghlor (52)

 

[Obie Wan]

Interesting that Lamar is saying the NLFPA is lying (or the NFL is lying in writing about the NFLPA).

Hes really raising his value eh

Interesting that if the NFL isn't lying, the NFLPA is more interested in protecting the agents than their player. Why should the NFLPA care who negotiates on behalf of one of their members if it helps their member.

"agents" have to pay dues (to support the NFLPA heirarchy)
no dues leads to anarchy

 

[Stoneworker]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

 

[Grahamburn]

Are we sure about that?

He was incredible in 2019, but look at his three seasons since.

2019: 36 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 3127 passing yards, 13 wins, 1206 rushing yards, 7 rushing touchdowns
2020-2022 (3-season averages): 20 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 2627 passing yards, 9 wins, 845 rushing yards, 4 rushing touchdowns

So yeah, he has not been close to the QB that he was in 2019 in the three seasons since. And, yes, I did season averages, not per game averages, because missing games is part of the equation, so that is obviously factored into his overall averages. Part of being great is being available and durable.

Using this logic, Baker Mayfield (42 GP the past 3 years) is a better QB than Deshaun Watson (22 GP). I get it, you can't contribute if you aren't playing. Matt Ryan played in 45 games over that time frame . . . are teams clamoring to bring him in and start him? QBs get hurt on occasion. Some get hurt Week 1, others in Week 17. Depending upon when the injury occurs and how severe it is, a QB could miss no time, some time, or a lot of time. IMO, how much time a player will miss and how often he will get injured is very unpredictable. If Allen or Mahomes breaks a hand on a helmet and misses half the season next year, are either of those guys going to be considered an injury risk? The perception is that more mobile QBs get hurt more, but I am not sure we can conclude that as the sample size is very small.

Come on. That's completely disingenuous and you know it.

 

[massraider]

https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1639305305367379968?t=X0cnZc96k8P3VPSmyHQQAw&s=19

Seems timely

 

[massraider]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

This seems like a completely reasonable expectation for every QB, completely

 

[ChicoCat]

The AFC has become an arms race...and if Rodgers goes to the Jets, it's only going to make it worse. Balmer might be able to make the playoffs with a mediocre QB and a good/great supporting cast....but I don't think they could run the gauntlet of Burrow/Mahomes/Allen/Rodgers/Herbert/Lawrence....and even maybe Wilson (if hes rejuvanated) and Watson. The Colts and Texans will be adding high level QBs as well. IF there's ever a time to NOT court and bed a top 10 QB....this is not the time.

 

[travdogg]

Now we can add Nelson Agholor (30), because of course that's who they wanted.

Oh Ravens, never change.

no no no, it's not the Ravens fault!

It's cause WRs don't want to play with Lamar.

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers.

Not what I was saying at all, but actually I do think Meyers would have been a significant addition for them. Lazard isn't any good, so he can thank the Jets desperation for Rodgers (why Rodgers wants him I don't know) for getting him more than double what he's worth.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's Always Sunny in Baltimore

 

[travdogg]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

This seems like a completely reasonable expectation for every QB, completely

Its really the silliest logic isn't it?

I feel like so many fans/media have Ricky Bobby logic. If you aren't the very best, you suck. Its asinine. I guess Jalen Hurts and the 2022 Eagles sucked.

 

[Chaka]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

I am jumping in late and probably out of touch…..and maybe not on topic....but Andrews is a stud. KC is similar with a stud at TE and a pretty average at best wide receiving crew. I am pretty confident that if Lamar and Pat swapped teams KC doesn’t come close to winning a SB. I don’t think Lamar is worth investing top 5 QB money on and I don’t blame the Ravens if they let another team pay him. I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent.

 

[massraider]

I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent

Kind of all that list as pointing out.

Someone else can have the Lamar is No Mahomes discussion.

 

[Capella]

I see no way the Colts give pick 4 and their 2024 1st, plus a zillion dollars.

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

 

[Capella]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

This seems like a completely reasonable expectation for every QB, completely

Its really the silliest logic isn't it?

I feel like so many fans/media have Ricky Bobby logic. If you aren't the very best, you suck. Its asinine. I guess Jalen Hurts and the 2022 Eagles sucked.

I saw on Twitter today somebody praising Gonzaga for 5 elite eights in the last 8 years. The first comment was “zero titles”. A lot of ummm….questionable opinions out there.

 

[massraider]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

 

[Chaka]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

I am jumping in late and probably out of touch…..and maybe not on topic....but Andrews is a stud. KC is similar with a stud at TE and a pretty average at best wide receiving crew. I am pretty confident that if Lamar and Pat swapped teams KC doesn’t come close to winning a SB. I don’t think Lamar is worth investing top 5 QB money on and I don’t blame the Ravens if they let another team pay him. I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent.

Couple things: you are, you are and you are...

However, two comments: 1) if you fault a QB for not being Mahomes your expectations are entirely unreasonable and you should reevaluate your entire life and 2) I don't think Andy Reid could turn Lamar into Mahomes but I 100% believe he could make the Chiefs, or Ravens, a perennial Super Bowl contender.

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, from Reid's coaching tree BTW, but he isn't an offensive genius and neither is Greg Roman. I would love to see Lamar in an Andy Reid offense (or a Brian Daboll offense for that matter).

 

[Capella]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

 

[humpback]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

I am jumping in late and probably out of touch…..and maybe not on topic....but Andrews is a stud. KC is similar with a stud at TE and a pretty average at best wide receiving crew. I am pretty confident that if Lamar and Pat swapped teams KC doesn’t come close to winning a SB. I don’t think Lamar is worth investing top 5 QB money on and I don’t blame the Ravens if they let another team pay him. I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent.

Couple things: you are, you are and you are...

However, two comments: 1) if you fault a QB for not being Mahomes your expectations are entirely unreasonable and you should reevaluate your entire life and 2) I don't think Andy Reid could turn Lamar into Mahomes but I 100% believe he could make the Chiefs, or Ravens, a perennial Super Bowl contender.

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, from Reid's coaching tree BTW, but he isn't an offensive genius and neither is Greg Roman. I would love to see Lamar in an Andy Reid offense (or a Brian Daboll offense for that matter).

I should have been more clear instead of vaguely comparing him to one of the best QBs in a similar situation. I do not value Lamar as a top 10 QB in this league (real, not FF) and do not blame the Ravens for not wanting to allocate a boatload of their cap towards him. You and I disagree about his abilities and that is fine. I think as long as he is able to be a dynamic runner he will always pose a problem for defenses, but I do not personally think he is someone who can put a team on his shoulders in the passing game and that is not what I would be looking for in a quarterback. Just my out of touch opinion.

 

[humpback]

Mahomes won a super bowl with a stud TE and a bunch of castoff WR's nobody else wanted.

Lamar should be able to do the same.

If he actually is as good as the contract he wants, anyway.

This seems like a completely reasonable expectation for every QB, completely

Its really the silliest logic isn't it?

I feel like so many fans/media have Ricky Bobby logic. If you aren't the very best, you suck. Its asinine. I guess Jalen Hurts and the 2022 Eagles sucked.

Essentially no one is saying that he sucks. More like if you aren't (even close to) the very best you probably shouldn't demand to be paid more than anyone else ever has been.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

 

[massraider]

Essentially no one is saying that he sucks. More like if you aren't (even close to) the very best you probably shouldn't demand to be paid more than anyone else ever has been

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

Maybe he just wants more than Kyler, or Russell

 

[ghostguy123]

I see no way the Colts give pick 4 and their 2024 1st, plus a zillion dollars.

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

The picks plus 50 million a year in cap space.
They SHOULD go after him. After the draft and use 2024 and 2025 picks.
Offer Lamar a nice deal 48 hours before the draft, trade down from pick 4.
Do it right, don't just do it. I hope they are in contact with Lamar about this exact scenario.

 

[Capella]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

 

[-OZ-]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

I mean, two of those guys are almost as old as the average FBG.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

 

[Capella]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

So, you think he was as good from 2020-2022 as he was in 2019?

 

[Capella]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

So, you think he was as good from 2020-2022 as he was in 2019?

2019 was his best season so far but he’s still been plenty awesome the last 3 years. No reason to think he can’t have another 2019 in him. I think there are only about 6-7 QBs I’d want to have over him going into this season.

 

[humpback]

There have been a lot of good WRs traded for first round picks lately if the Ravens wanted to go that route.

Like?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

So, you think he was as good from 2020-2022 as he was in 2019?

2019 was his best season so far but he’s still been plenty awesome the last 3 years. No reason to think he can’t have another 2019 in him. I think there are only about 6-7 QBs I’d want to have over him going into this season.

Fair enough. I think he has had awesome games since, but the consistency has not been there. And the more that happens this offseason, the more his decision-making comes into question.

 

[ghostguy123]

There have been a lot of good WRs traded for first round picks lately if the Ravens wanted to go that route.

Like?

Tyreek and Adams?

 

[massraider]

The picks plus 50 million a year in cap space.
They SHOULD go after him. After the draft and use 2024 and 2025 picks.
Offer Lamar a nice deal 48 hours before the draft, trade down from pick 4.
Do it right, don't just do it. I hope they are in contact with Lamar about this exact scenario

The really insane part about this is the Colts are favored to take Antony Richardson at #4.

I would trade Anthony Richardson and next years 1 for Lamar. Even with the salary.

Someone just traded DJ Moore, two 1s and two 2s, for CJ Stroud.

I get the salary cap, but you let me know which GMs would rather have cap space than a QB.

 

[massraider]

And the more that happens this offseason, the more his decision-making comes into question

I feel like this didn't hurt Deshaun Watson

 

[Capella]

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

So, you think he was as good from 2020-2022 as he was in 2019?

2019 was his best season so far but he’s still been plenty awesome the last 3 years. No reason to think he can’t have another 2019 in him. I think there are only about 6-7 QBs I’d want to have over him going into this season.

Fair enough. I think he has had awesome games since, but the consistency has not been there. And the more that happens this offseason, the more his decision-making comes into question.

Other than 2021 his int rate has been fine. He’s a very good passer and incredible with his legs. People love the unknown but I’d give up multiple firsts for him. Wish the Bucs did, we get Baker Mayfield instead. Christ.

 

[humpback]

There have been a lot of good WRs traded for first round picks lately if the Ravens wanted to go that route.

Like?

Tyreek and Adams?

They both went for more than a 1st plus got giant contract extensions. Same with AJ Brown. It's pretty hard/expensive to acquire a stud WR.

 

[Ghost Rider]

And the more that happens this offseason, the more his decision-making comes into question

I feel like this didn't hurt Deshaun Watson

The Browns. 'Nuff said.

Why? What are the odds either or those picks end up being better than Lamar? 5%?

This thread has needed a link to the Peter Griffin Boat/Mystery Box for a while;

Exactly. “Draft picks have value!” people say in the middle of a conversation about a 25 year old mvp quarterback.

He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.

I do chuckle at people repeatedly referring to him as an "MVP QB." If that is the standard, then why isn't everyone supporting Matt Ryan getting paid somewhere? And I see that Cam Newton wants to play again. He's an "MVP QB" as well, so he needs to get 220 million guaranteed as well, right?

Come on man.

Lamar is not close to the same player he was when he was the MVP, so bringing up his MVP, like he has been that same player since, is disingenuous.

If you disagree, come on, man.

He’s 26 and has still been an excellent player, obviously been injured. Your comment isn’t a serious one. Get real.

So, you think he was as good from 2020-2022 as he was in 2019?

2019 was his best season so far but he’s still been plenty awesome the last 3 years. No reason to think he can’t have another 2019 in him. I think there are only about 6-7 QBs I’d want to have over him going into this season.

Fair enough. I think he has had awesome games since, but the consistency has not been there. And the more that happens this offseason, the more his decision-making comes into question.

Other than 2021 his int rate has been fine. He’s a very good passer and incredible with his legs. People love the unknown but I’d give up multiple firsts for him. Wish the Bucs did, we get Baker Mayfield instead. Christ.

Oof, good luck with Baker.

 

[massraider]

They both went for more than a 1st plus got giant contract extensions. Same with AJ Brown. It's pretty hard/expensive to acquire a stud WR.

If you have a mystery box, you can get one thrown in on a trade (DJ Moore).

 

[Chaka]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

I am jumping in late and probably out of touch…..and maybe not on topic....but Andrews is a stud. KC is similar with a stud at TE and a pretty average at best wide receiving crew. I am pretty confident that if Lamar and Pat swapped teams KC doesn’t come close to winning a SB. I don’t think Lamar is worth investing top 5 QB money on and I don’t blame the Ravens if they let another team pay him. I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent.

Couple things: you are, you are and you are...

However, two comments: 1) if you fault a QB for not being Mahomes your expectations are entirely unreasonable and you should reevaluate your entire life and 2) I don't think Andy Reid could turn Lamar into Mahomes but I 100% believe he could make the Chiefs, or Ravens, a perennial Super Bowl contender.

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, from Reid's coaching tree BTW, but he isn't an offensive genius and neither is Greg Roman. I would love to see Lamar in an Andy Reid offense (or a Brian Daboll offense for that matter).

I should have been more clear instead of vaguely comparing him to one of the best QBs in a similar situation. I do not value Lamar as a top 10 QB in this league (real, not FF) and do not blame the Ravens for not wanting to allocate a boatload of their cap towards him. You and I disagree about his abilities and that is fine. I think as long as he is able to be a dynamic runner he will always pose a problem for defenses, but I do not personally think he is someone who can put a team on his shoulders in the passing game and that is not what I would be looking for in a quarterback. Just my out of touch opinion.

I sincerely appreciate your response. It is thoughtful and well considered.

Where do you stand on Josh Allen? What happens to him when he loses his legs?

 

[ghostguy123]

The picks plus 50 million a year in cap space.
They SHOULD go after him. After the draft and use 2024 and 2025 picks.
Offer Lamar a nice deal 48 hours before the draft, trade down from pick 4.
Do it right, don't just do it. I hope they are in contact with Lamar about this exact scenario

The really insane part about this is the Colts are favored to take Antony Richardson at #4.

I would trade Anthony Richardson and next years 1 for Lamar. Even with the salary.

Someone just traded DJ Moore, two 1s and two 2s, for CJ Stroud.

I get the salary cap, but you let me know which GMs would rather have cap space than a QB.

I don't think they wanna take Richardson.
Yeah, I'd make that deal as well.
They have other options though.

 

[massraider]

I don't think they wanna take Richardson.

I don't think they do, either. But the sense now is they have to get one, and Stroud/Young are gone.

Sooo that's a sticky wicket right there

 

[Capella]

Do quarterbacks like Lamar lose their legs? I mean he’s pretty rare but Vick never did. Russ was nowhere near the kind of runner Lamar is but I guess he lost his. Steve Young seemed to have his until Sapp kind of ended his career.

Vick is really the only guy you can compare Lamar to and I feel like he never lost his quickness.

 

[ghostguy123]

I don't think they wanna take Richardson.

I don't think they do, either. But the sense now is they have to get one, and Stroud/Young are gone.

Sooo that's a sticky wicket right there

The sense from who, media?? Meh.
Watch the Colts and Falcons both throw out offers Tuesday of draft week.

 

[Chaka]

Steve Young seemed to have his until Sapp kind of ended his career.

Aeneas Williams

 

[King of the Jungle]

Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers

Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.

The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.

it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.

I am jumping in late and probably out of touch…..and maybe not on topic....but Andrews is a stud. KC is similar with a stud at TE and a pretty average at best wide receiving crew. I am pretty confident that if Lamar and Pat swapped teams KC doesn’t come close to winning a SB. I don’t think Lamar is worth investing top 5 QB money on and I don’t blame the Ravens if they let another team pay him. I will agree with you that they have been bad evaluating receiver talent.

Couple things: you are, you are and you are...

However, two comments: 1) if you fault a QB for not being Mahomes your expectations are entirely unreasonable and you should reevaluate your entire life and 2) I don't think Andy Reid could turn Lamar into Mahomes but I 100% believe he could make the Chiefs, or Ravens, a perennial Super Bowl contender.

I think Harbaugh is a great coach, from Reid's coaching tree BTW, but he isn't an offensive genius and neither is Greg Roman. I would love to see Lamar in an Andy Reid offense (or a Brian Daboll offense for that matter).

I should have been more clear instead of vaguely comparing him to one of the best QBs in a similar situation. I do not value Lamar as a top 10 QB in this league (real, not FF) and do not blame the Ravens for not wanting to allocate a boatload of their cap towards him. You and I disagree about his abilities and that is fine. I think as long as he is able to be a dynamic runner he will always pose a problem for defenses, but I do not personally think he is someone who can put a team on his shoulders in the passing game and that is not what I would be looking for in a quarterback. Just my out of touch opinion.

I sincerely appreciate your response. It is thoughtful and well considered.

Where do you stand on Josh Allen? What happens to him when he loses his legs?

Is the question ultimately comparing Allen versus Lamar in the same circumstance?