QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (3 Viewers)

[Chaka]

Has Lamar been out there, complaining about not enough endorsements? Maybe he wants to leave work, cash his 32 mill paycheck this year, and enjoy his time off.
If Lamar want to not have an agent, and doesn't care about having Chunky Soup commercials, why are we suddenly so concerned about it?

If Lamar is doing it based on a principal against marketing, or simply doesn't care about those dollars, that's great.

But does that narrative really jive with fighting for every last guaranteed nickel? I mean, if it wasn't about the money wouldn't he have accepted the Ravens, was it $133 million actual guarantee (something like that) and called it a day?

I am not necessarily pro agent, but I am 100% pro players and I think it is in Lamar's best interest to seek outside counsel at this point.

so what if he engaged outside "counsel" in the form of an experienced NYC attorney, who is charging $1,000 / hr.
not an agent, so not fitting the narrative of the agent pack of wolves

That would be dirt cheat, relatively. An agent would have had to put in 625, 12 hour days on Deshaun Watson's contract to earn his 3% commission ($7.5 mil).

 

[massraider]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

 

[Chaka]

but fact is, you pay a percentage to some manager/agent who knows who to call at Nike, or Under Armour, or Pepsi.

Exactly. Nike doesn't need to beat down Lamar's door because Mahomes guy or Burrow's guy or some other guy is beating down Nike's door explaining to them why their guy best represents the ethos of selling $1.50 shoes for $200.

 

[ghostguy123]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

More like the agent would get something done and also with a far less chance of burning bridges.
No agent is just stupid TBH

 

[Chaka]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Agreed. Managing the headlines is crucial in these situations. I also think that an agent could guide Lamar to a compromise that benefits anyone, but if Lamar's stance is "$250,000,001.00 fully guaranteed and not a penny less no matter what!!!" then he is lost at sea and doesn't realize it.

 

[Chaka]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

More like the agent would get something done and also with a far less chance of burning bridges.
No agent is just stupid TBH

I don't think that is necessarily such a big deal, if you rep a guy people want the deal will get done.

Drew Rosenhouse still negotiated plenty of contracts after T.O.

 

[massraider]

I don't think that is necessarily such a big deal, if you rep a guy people want the deal will get done.

And Kirk Cousins had an agent, and played through tags till he hit free agency.

A lot of guys get deals done because they don't want to leave. So they settle for a little less to stay. Cousins didn't do that. And he was dumb, right up until he played through two tags, and got a guaranteed deal from the Vikes.

Cousins held out and played out his options, and the VIkings have been stuck with him, extending him, and giving even more money, because he didn't 'get a deal done'.

 

[IHEARTFF]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

If they’re at 133 and he’s at 200, maybe an agent could get Baltimore or another team up to 170 and get a deal done.

 

[massraider]

If they’re at 133 and he’s at 200, maybe an agent could get Baltimore or another team up to 170 and get a deal done.

Maybe. Maybe even probably. This probably get done quicker with an agent, IMO.

Or maybe his agent could go to PFT, and plant a story about how the Ravens are low-balling a guy who has performed for them, and they are offering half the money to him that some other guy with a bunch of sexual assault charges got. PFT isn't writing that story, they are writing about how this hasn't gotten done because he doesn't have an agent. So that's the story we all read.

 

[IHEARTFF]

If they’re at 133 and he’s at 200, maybe an agent could get Baltimore or another team up to 170 and get a deal done.

Maybe. Maybe even probably. This probably get done quicker with an agent, IMO.

Or maybe his agent could go to PFT, and plant a story about how the Ravens are low-balling a guy who has performed for them, and they are offering half the money to him that some other guy with a bunch of sexual assault charges got. PFT isn't writing that story, they are writing about how this hasn't gotten done because he doesn't have an agent. So that's the story we all read.

I don’t disagree. All beneficial reasons for him to agent up.

 

[ghostguy123]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

More like the agent would get something done and also with a far less chance of burning bridges.
No agent is just stupid TBH

I don't think that is necessarily such a big deal, if you rep a guy people want the deal will get done.

Drew Rosenhouse still negotiated plenty of contracts after T.O.

It's different when an agent burns bridges than the player burning bridges
Again, not having an agent here is stupid, period.

 

[Chaka]

I don't think that is necessarily such a big deal, if you rep a guy people want the deal will get done.

And Kirk Cousins had an agent, and played through tags till he hit free agency.

A lot of guys get deals done because they don't want to leave. So they settle for a little less to stay. Cousins didn't do that. And he was dumb, right up until he played through two tags, and got a guaranteed deal from the Vikes.

Cousins held out and played out his options, and the VIkings have been stuck with him, extending him, and giving even more money, because he didn't 'get a deal done'.

All the power in the world to Cousins but he took a helluva risk.

I do believe Lamar can become more of a dominant passer and run less but it hasn't happened yet and on top of his running he has a high sack % at 7.4 (27 times/season), Cousins is at 5.6% (26 times/season) and he has run the ball 26 times/season in 11 seasons. Lamar runs 145 times/season over his first five.

You can tell me all day that more QB injuries happen in the pocket than outside but punishment adds up over time and Lamar takes a ton more punishment than Cousins. He is taking a much bigger risk than Cousins, if he is willing to go two seasons on the tag.

 

[Chaka]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

More like the agent would get something done and also with a far less chance of burning bridges.
No agent is just stupid TBH

I don't think that is necessarily such a big deal, if you rep a guy people want the deal will get done.

Drew Rosenhouse still negotiated plenty of contracts after T.O.

It's different when an agent burns bridges than the player burning bridges
Again, not having an agent here is stupid, period.

That has been my position from the start.

 

[Obie Wan]

so what if he engaged outside "counsel" in the form of an experienced NYC attorney, who is charging $1,000 / hr.
not an agent, so not fitting the narrative of the agent pack of wolves

This has absolutely happened in the NBA, with slotted salaries already set.

But now? Lamar's mom, and whatever lawyer they are using, is almost definitely not as good for him financially as an agent would be.

Agents take 3%, and Lamar could find one who would take 2%, no problem at all. Most likely would be worth it.

the problem is any agent getting a %, doesn't get squat unless Lamar signs a contract.
Any agent under those terms would be applying heavy pressure to sign a traditional contract, which runs against the NFLPA and Lamar's strong desire to break the model and get a super size, fully guaranteed contract.

 

[massraider]

the problem is any agent getting a %, doesn't get squat unless Lamar signs a contract.
Any agent under those terms would be applying heavy pressure to sign a traditional contract, which runs against the NFLPA and Lamar's strong desire to break the model and get a super size, fully guaranteed contract.

That's only a problem if Lamar never signs a contract. I realize some people in this thread think that's possible, but it's highly unlikely.

You show me an agent who isn't pushing for fully guaranteed, and I will show you an agent who needs to be fired. Do you think NBA and MLB agents are unhappy with fully guaranteed deals?

 

[Tau837]

I doubt his price tag goes up from here. Especially if it's a new team.

Price tag goes up depending on who signs first.

Herbert/Burrow/Lamar/Hurts.

The 4th guy to sign will get more guaranteed than the 1st guy.

I feel very confident in saying this.

I disagree, and feel very confident about it.

No matter what order these guys sign in, IMO Burrow will get the most APY and guaranteed, followed by Herbert on both fronts. I think order could matter between Jackson and Hurts, i.e., whoever signs first gets less than the other.

 

[-OZ-]

I doubt his price tag goes up from here. Especially if it's a new team.

Price tag goes up depending on who signs first.

Herbert/Burrow/Lamar/Hurts.

The 4th guy to sign will get more guaranteed than the 1st guy.

I feel very confident in saying this.

If we’re only talking guarantee, I’d bet on Burrow and Herbert. Most likely Joe getting the most guaranteed.

 

[Grahamburn]

Any player holding out for more money and saying it's for the betterment of all players is feeding you a steaming pile of lying turds.

100% and this clown will never win anything. Kudos to the Ravens for calling his bluff.

 

[humpback]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

 

[Chaka]

Any player holding out for more money and saying it's for the betterment of all players is feeding you a steaming pile of lying turds.

100% and this clown will never win anything. Kudos to the Ravens for calling his bluff.

 

[Chaka]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

It's not a "silly quest" it's a reasonable goal. These funny money contracts are nonsense and, frankly shine a negative light on the agents, and ownership of course but that's obvious, for being complicit in them.

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL is incredibly shady with their contract structures and their, effectively anti-trust status (32 separate businesses my ***). We should all be rooting for Lamar to get his guaranteed deal.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

Apologies for the rant but... seriously, I mean... seriously.

 

[Jakey]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

 

[Jakey]

I'm sure there are others here who negotiate daily in their jobs.

Don't you love it when someone steps into that arena unprepared?

 

[Chaka]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

 

[Jakey]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I am asking because you said it.

Then you double down with the "deserve" argument. They "deserve" what they agree to in their contracts... that they negotiated for.

eta - to my knowledge damn near everyone of these contracts have guaranteed money..... that was negotiated and agreed upon.

 

[Jakey]

I'm rooting to watch football, not for the players and owners to draw a line somewhere in negotiations that results in no football to watch.

But I guess the world needs drama these days..... yay lockouts and holdouts!

 

[Chaka]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I am asking because you said it.

Then you double down with the "deserve" argument. They "deserve" what they agree to in their contracts... that they negotiated for.

eta - to my knowledge damn near everyone of these contracts have guaranteed money..... that was negotiated and agreed upon.

I said it and gave my reason.

You have been fishing this thread, IMO, for a few days at least. Should I regret engaging you?

 

[Jakey]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I am asking because you said it.

Then you double down with the "deserve" argument. They "deserve" what they agree to in their contracts... that they negotiated for.

eta - to my knowledge damn near everyone of these contracts have guaranteed money..... that was negotiated and agreed upon.

I said it and gave my reason.

You have been fishing this thread, IMO, for a few days at least. Should I regret engaging you?

The ages old "doesn't go with the group think must be fishing".

I laid out the reasoning clearly as well. I accept your fold.

 

[fatness]

With Greg Roman gone as OC, hopefully Lamar will no longer have to deal with the most constipated offense in the NFL. Monken says he wants to open things up and that's sorely needed. The last few years the Ravens' opponents haven't had to cover as much of the field as they would have against other teams. Ravens concentrated mostly on the center of the field.

 

[Jakey]

With Greg Roman gone as OC, hopefully Lamar will no longer have to deal with the most constipated offense in the NFL. Monken says he wants to open things up and that's sorely needed. The last few years the Ravens' opponents haven't had to cover as much of the field as they would have against other teams. Ravens concentrated mostly on the center of the field.

Do you think the QB's passing ability has something to do with that? Do you see Lamar suddenly diming back shoulder sideline routes?

 

[fatness]

With Greg Roman gone as OC, hopefully Lamar will no longer have to deal with the most constipated offense in the NFL. Monken says he wants to open things up and that's sorely needed. The last few years the Ravens' opponents haven't had to cover as much of the field as they would have against other teams. Ravens concentrated mostly on the center of the field.

Do you think the QB's passing ability has something to do with that? Do you see Lamar suddenly diming back shoulder sideline routes?

I think that was more due to Greg Roman's defensive (for an offense) frame of mind.
We'll see when he coaches again. So far this year 32 teams haven't hired him since he was fired.

 

[Chaka]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I am asking because you said it.

Then you double down with the "deserve" argument. They "deserve" what they agree to in their contracts... that they negotiated for.

eta - to my knowledge damn near everyone of these contracts have guaranteed money..... that was negotiated and agreed upon.

I said it and gave my reason.

You have been fishing this thread, IMO, for a few days at least. Should I regret engaging you?

The ages old "doesn't go with the group think must be fishing".

I laid out the reasoning clearly as well. I accept your fold.

 

[Jakey]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

I have been arguing for Lamar to hire an agent since the jump, so...what exactly are you asking me?

I side with Lamar v NFL ownership regardless of whether or not he has an agent.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I am asking because you said it.

Then you double down with the "deserve" argument. They "deserve" what they agree to in their contracts... that they negotiated for.

eta - to my knowledge damn near everyone of these contracts have guaranteed money..... that was negotiated and agreed upon.

I said it and gave my reason.

You have been fishing this thread, IMO, for a few days at least. Should I regret engaging you?

The ages old "doesn't go with the group think must be fishing".

I laid out the reasoning clearly as well. I accept your fold.

Feel free to counter

 

[Jakey]

With Greg Roman gone as OC, hopefully Lamar will no longer have to deal with the most constipated offense in the NFL. Monken says he wants to open things up and that's sorely needed. The last few years the Ravens' opponents haven't had to cover as much of the field as they would have against other teams. Ravens concentrated mostly on the center of the field.

Do you think the QB's passing ability has something to do with that? Do you see Lamar suddenly diming back shoulder sideline routes?

I think that was more due to Greg Roman's defensive (for an offense) frame of mind.
We'll see when he coaches again. So far this year 32 teams haven't hired him since he was fired.

Same number of teams that signed the QB since he was fired.

 

[Tau837]

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL has a hard cap, which the NBA and MLB do not. NBA and MLB teams can overcome mistake contracts if they are simply willing to spend more. Apples and oranges.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

IMO larger rosters playing a game that is much more violent with more injuries makes guaranteeing all contracts a bad thing for the quality of the NFL game. I expect NFL leadership and owners get that. The players should get that, too. Maintaining the best quality of play helps to maintain the popularity of the sport, which generates the revenue that pays for all forms of player compensation.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

This argument is undermined by the fact that the hard salary cap makes player compensation a zero sum game. If Jackson gets more, other players get less. Therefore, not siding with Jackson in seeking a fully guaranteed contract does not equate to not "siding with labor."

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

at equating the quest for NFL player contracts to be fully guaranteed to the efforts others went through that led to basic labor laws.

 

[Tau837]

With Greg Roman gone as OC, hopefully Lamar will no longer have to deal with the most constipated offense in the NFL. Monken says he wants to open things up and that's sorely needed. The last few years the Ravens' opponents haven't had to cover as much of the field as they would have against other teams. Ravens concentrated mostly on the center of the field.

If we assume this to be true, i.e., that Roman's offense was holding Jackson back rather than actually giving him the exact tailored offense that best suits him, that is a good reason for Jackson to consider playing 2023 under the tag. It is an opportunity for him to go out and show much greater passing ability than he has shown to date, at least since 2019. That might boost his market quite a bit, especially if he could play 2023 injury free.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

It won't be the Colts unless there's a tag and trade worked out. No way I see them giving pick 4 and another 1st while giving a huge contract.
I still think Ljax just stays in Baltimore anyway.

A Raven fan heard the Colts 'might' wait till after the draft and then make an offer, so they don't have to give up the 4th pick.
He also said that a 'straight-up' trade could take place with any team but that he's heard that may also not happen until after the draft.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If we assume this to be true, i.e., that Roman's offense was holding Jackson back rather than actually giving him the exact tailored offense that best suits him, that is a good reason for Jackson to consider playing 2023 under the tag

Yeah it’s odd how the narrative turned from being an offense designed around Jackson to the offense that was holding him back.

With that said a lot of the takes about his total lack of abilities as a passer are laughably bad.

 

[Obie Wan]

Lamar wants to leave a legacy.
Initially, it seemed his play on the field would be groundbreaking enough to change how the game is played.
Age and injury (and lack of passing ability) have side-tracked that stand alone possibility.

Now, it seems the NFLPA has convinced Lamar that he can go down in history remembered for being the point man for NFL fully guaranteed contracts as fondly as Curt Flood for starting free agency.
Funny, how Lamar is taking all of hits, while Demaurice Smith just pulls the strings and is unscathed.
Seems Smith should have negotiated with the NFL in the last CBA to get those guaranteed contracts he wants so bad.
not too many players were willing to go to the mat, though

 

[Boston]

If we assume this to be true, i.e., that Roman's offense was holding Jackson back rather than actually giving him the exact tailored offense that best suits him, that is a good reason for Jackson to consider playing 2023 under the tag

Yeah it’s odd how the narrative turned from being an offense designed around Jackson to the offense that was holding him back.

With that said a lot of the takes about his total lack of abilities as a passer are laughably bad.

Agreed...there is a lot commonsense lacking from all sides when it comes to Lamar.

 

[ghostguy123]

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

@Chaka why would you root for either? It is a business decision. A business negotiation. Lamar is losing his *** daily because he is being fed emotional stuff like this. Because the organizations have professionals negotiatiating and he doesn't.

NFL players deserve guaranteed contracts without the funny money nonsense.

I agree to a point. I'm more concerned with the bottom 40 guys on each team getting guaranteed money than I am with Lamar getting 250 million guaranteed as opposed to 175 million guaranteed.

 

[Chaka]

This argument is undermined by the fact that the hard salary cap makes player compensation a zero sum game. If Jackson gets more, other players get less. Therefore, not siding with Jackson in seeking a fully guaranteed contract does not equate to not "siding with labor."

That is an excellent point, thank you.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the cap?

 

[ghostguy123]

Also, the NBA and MLB would be much better off if they DIDNT have all guaranteed contracts.

 

[ghostguy123]

This argument is undermined by the fact that the hard salary cap makes player compensation a zero sum game. If Jackson gets more, other players get less. Therefore, not siding with Jackson in seeking a fully guaranteed contract does not equate to not "siding with labor."

That is an excellent point, thank you.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the cap?

God no. Would ruin the game.
Same 5 teams win every year forever. Yay

 

[humpback]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

It's not a "silly quest" it's a reasonable goal. These funny money contracts are nonsense and, frankly shine a negative light on the agents, and ownership of course but that's obvious, for being complicit in them.

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL is incredibly shady with their contract structures and their, effectively anti-trust status (32 separate businesses my ***). We should all be rooting for Lamar to get his guaranteed deal.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

Apologies for the rant but... seriously, I mean... seriously.

For starters, I simply repeated what the other poster said about it being a "silly quest" as part of his narrative which isn't based in reality.

More importantly, I think you're way off base with how this would work out if the top players started getting guaranteed contracts. There is a salary cap in the NFL, the evil owners are essentially all spending the same amount of money in their shady contracts. It doesn't matter to them financially if a huge chunk goes to Lamar (in this case) leaving less for the other players or less goes to Lamar leaving more for the others. It's more like you'd be siding with the multi-millionaire players over the millionaire players, which I'm guessing is the opposite of your goal and pretty much renders your entire rant moot.

 

[ghostguy123]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

It's not a "silly quest" it's a reasonable goal. These funny money contracts are nonsense and, frankly shine a negative light on the agents, and ownership of course but that's obvious, for being complicit in them.

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL is incredibly shady with their contract structures and their, effectively anti-trust status (32 separate businesses my ***). We should all be rooting for Lamar to get his guaranteed deal.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

Apologies for the rant but... seriously, I mean... seriously.

For starters, I simply repeated what the other poster said about it being a "silly quest" as part of his narrative which isn't based in reality.

More importantly, I think you're way off base with how this would work out if the top players started getting guaranteed contracts. There is a salary cap in the NFL, the evil owners are essentially all spending the same amount of money in their shady contracts. It doesn't matter to them financially if a huge chunk goes to Lamar (in this case) leaving less for the other players or less goes to Lamar leaving more for the others. It's more like you'd be siding with the multi-millionaire players over the millionaire players, which I'm guessing is the opposite of your goal and pretty much renders your entire rant moot.

Many of the players aren't exactly millionaires

 

[massraider]

Agreed...there is a lot commonsense lacking from all sides when it comes to Lamar.

Well, we went from can't read defenses, needs years of bench time, wildly inaccurate, he's RGIII

To

Won't be able to keep this up for 7 more years!!!


Hey, Shoutout to the ones who at least still fighting the fight, way to stick with it

 

[-OZ-]

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL has a hard cap, which the NBA and MLB do not. NBA and MLB teams can overcome mistake contracts if they are simply willing to spend more. Apples and oranges.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

IMO larger rosters playing a game that is much more violent with more injuries makes guaranteeing all contracts a bad thing for the quality of the NFL game. I expect NFL leadership and owners get that. The players should get that, too. Maintaining the best quality of play helps to maintain the popularity of the sport, which generates the revenue that pays for all forms of player compensation.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

This argument is undermined by the fact that the hard salary cap makes player compensation a zero sum game. If Jackson gets more, other players get less. Therefore, not siding with Jackson in seeking a fully guaranteed contract does not equate to not "siding with labor."

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

at equating the quest for NFL player contracts to be fully guaranteed to the efforts others went through that led to basic labor laws.

I’d like to see the next CBA have a provision that allows the player to get the money but if the team releases the player, that money no longer counts against their cap. Or some % counts.

Given the violent sport, players are right to value guarantees. Insurance only solves part of the problem. But obviously locking the team up with the cap is an issue.

 

[-OZ-]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

It's not a "silly quest" it's a reasonable goal. These funny money contracts are nonsense and, frankly shine a negative light on the agents, and ownership of course but that's obvious, for being complicit in them.

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL is incredibly shady with their contract structures and their, effectively anti-trust status (32 separate businesses my ***). We should all be rooting for Lamar to get his guaranteed deal.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

Apologies for the rant but... seriously, I mean... seriously.

For starters, I simply repeated what the other poster said about it being a "silly quest" as part of his narrative which isn't based in reality.

More importantly, I think you're way off base with how this would work out if the top players started getting guaranteed contracts. There is a salary cap in the NFL, the evil owners are essentially all spending the same amount of money in their shady contracts. It doesn't matter to them financially if a huge chunk goes to Lamar (in this case) leaving less for the other players or less goes to Lamar leaving more for the others. It's more like you'd be siding with the multi-millionaire players over the millionaire players, which I'm guessing is the opposite of your goal and pretty much renders your entire rant moot.

Many of the players aren't exactly millionaires

the median wage for all NFL players is roughly $860,000.
Granted, that doesn’t account for taxes, fees, and other costs maintaining the requisite health and fitness to stay in past training camp. But the median player definitely has a better chance of being a millionaire than the vast majority of the fans.

 

[ghostguy123]

My disconnect is that people think if he had an agent, he would drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed, and sign a Raven-friendly contract.

He would still be going for fully guaranteed, the only difference is that half of the "Sources with knowledge" quotes would be sympathetic to Lamar, rather than the narrative that we have now, which is the poor pluckyy Ravens trying to give him a more than fair deal, and Lamar's MOM IS MESSING EVERYTHING UP

Of course the agent would start with going for fully guaranteed, but the difference is that he WOULD drop this silly quest for fully guaranteed because he would have his finger on the pulse of what other teams and QBs are discussing and would very quickly realize that the Watson deal was a one-off from a terrible, desperate franchise, not the new normal.

It's not a "silly quest" it's a reasonable goal. These funny money contracts are nonsense and, frankly shine a negative light on the agents, and ownership of course but that's obvious, for being complicit in them.

Guaranteed contracts exist in every other sport, and there is plenty of physical risk involved in them as well. Just ask any team that signed Derek Rose.

The NFL is incredibly shady with their contract structures and their, effectively anti-trust status (32 separate businesses my ***). We should all be rooting for Lamar to get his guaranteed deal.

In the battle of 32 billionaires v 1 millionaire why not side with the underdog?

If you're siding with the 32 billionaires you might want to research the history of labor laws. Your 40 hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, meal breaks etc (all of which, and far more, are being systematically dismantled [FFS some states are reconsidering child labor laws]) didn't appear out of the ether. People bled, quite literally, for those benefits.

Unless you're a candidate to buy the Washington Commodores, you should be 100% pro labor and, by extension, pro Lamar.

Apologies for the rant but... seriously, I mean... seriously.

For starters, I simply repeated what the other poster said about it being a "silly quest" as part of his narrative which isn't based in reality.

More importantly, I think you're way off base with how this would work out if the top players started getting guaranteed contracts. There is a salary cap in the NFL, the evil owners are essentially all spending the same amount of money in their shady contracts. It doesn't matter to them financially if a huge chunk goes to Lamar (in this case) leaving less for the other players or less goes to Lamar leaving more for the others. It's more like you'd be siding with the multi-millionaire players over the millionaire players, which I'm guessing is the opposite of your goal and pretty much renders your entire rant moot.

Many of the players aren't exactly millionaires

the median wage for all NFL players is roughly $860,000.
Granted, that doesn’t account for taxes, fees, and other costs maintaining the requisite health and fitness to stay in past training camp. But the median player definitely has a better chance of being a millionaire than the vast majority of the fans.

So they have to play 3-4 years to have a million bucks in the bank.
Then they have to work a regular job for 30 years like the rest of us cause 1-2 million bucks at age 26 or so certainly isn't retirement money. Not even remotely close