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Post-Combine rookie rankings (1 Viewer)

No one is trading ones next year for a 2nd this year. 2017 is perceived to be loaded

Then again i think alot of people were down on the lacy/leveon class and it turned out ok
Lots of people don't know much about the 2016 class yet, much less then perceived class of 2017.  There is a guy in my league who a few years back traded all his next year's picks to double up that year (I think it was trading all his 2014s away for more 2013s).  Then when 2014 came around and he had no picks, he traded his 2015 picks for 2014 picks - then did this same for 2015.  He's currently sitting with only a few very late picks this year - but he lived "on credit" for a few years, and is finally paying it off now.  Maybe I can find someone else to do that, and buy a few 2nds from me.

 
the old Bobby Beathard book of trading picks... that's assuming another owner will always be willing to move back a year (which is possible but out of your control)

 
If you're discounting Doctson due to age, then Michael Thomas/Sterling Sheperd/Braxton Miller all are discounted too. All four of those players are 23 before the 2016 season begins.
I don't recall saying I would discount anyone, but yes, I will factor in that they are "old" rookies.

Doctson turns 24 this season.

Michael Thomas was born on 8/16/94, which makes him 22 years-old this season.

 
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I don't recall saying I would discount anyone, but yes, I will factor in that they are "old" rookies.

Doctson turns 24 this season.

Michael Thomas was born on 8/16/94, which makes him 22 years-old this season.
I'm suspicious of that birthdate for Michael Thomas, since it's exactly the same as USM WR Mike Thomas's birthdate (according to his USM bio). Do you have a source other than Wikipedia?

 
Too difficult to format nicely from my phone but here my rankings. 

Elliot, Doctson, Treadwell, Henry, Coleman, Collins, Marshall, Thomas, Jonathan Williams, Fuller, Lawler, Dixon

Howard, Cayleb Jones, Washington, Shepard, Perkins, Prosise, Caroo, Miller, Demarcus Robinson, Garrett, Ervin, Drake

 
Dan, were you pretty low on Collins pre combine or did he just hurt his stock that much?
Sorry for the late reply. Just seeing this. I wasn't real high on Collins pre-combine. Wary of the Bielema/Wisconsin scheme that produces big holes and over-inflated the stock of a lot of those backs in previous years. So I take his production with a major grain of salt. Combine dropped him a little more as he doesn't look like he's going to produce much in the passing game and wasn't very fast either. 

 
That's bad groupthink.  I've already gotten a 2017 1st and Kamar Aiken for 2.03.  Good team, lost in the finals this year, so likely a late pick.   I have traded a 2 in each of the last 3 drafts for future 1's throughout various leagues and am sure I will be able to do more this year.
I'm having a great deal of trouble even trading 2016 firsts for 2017 firsts - even 2016 firsts in the 1.09 area - forget about 2016 seconds for 2017 firsts.

 
9. Leonte Carroo- Measuring in at just 6'0 was a little bit disappointing. But the 4.50 forty was a solid number for a 211-pound guy who has shown great hands. Might have flown under-the-radar in a better rookie class, but will be a favorite of many in this underwhelming class and probably get a lot of hype between now and April.
Caroo is a third rounder according to many sites. It's odd that he is getting so much love.

I didn't want to quote your whole post and take up the huge space but- the way you mentioned numbers has been the same for some articles this offseason and I often pause and wonder- Is this draft class slow? Was there a change with clocks that I don't know of? Since when are we excited about 4.6 guys or drawing a line like 4.57 is fine but 4.6 is no good? Is it just me? Or is something hmmmm this year?

 
I'm having a great deal of trouble even trading 2016 firsts for 2017 firsts - even 2016 firsts in the 1.09 area - forget about 2016 seconds for 2017 firsts.
The only trade I've made this off-season is 1.12 and Stefan Diggs for a high 2017 1st, (top 3 ?).

 
Now isn't the time to trade 2016 picks for 2017.  2016 picks beyond the top 3 are just picks, with no faces attached.  

I have 1.8 and 1.12 in a 16 team league.  I'm not even offering.  

Wait till the NFL draft, and wait for Leonte Caroo to go to Cincy, or for Kenneth Dixon to get drafted by Philly.  Put some rookie skill guys in a spot with a nice path to playing time in a good offense, and then you can make those deals.  The 2016 picks will get overhyped as soon as the draft is over, happens every year.  

 
Now isn't the time to trade 2016 picks for 2017.  2016 picks beyond the top 3 are just picks, with no faces attached.  

I have 1.8 and 1.12 in a 16 team league.  I'm not even offering.  

Wait till the NFL draft, and wait for Leonte Caroo to go to Cincy, or for Kenneth Dixon to get drafted by Philly.  Put some rookie skill guys in a spot with a nice path to playing time in a good offense, and then you can make those deals.  The 2016 picks will get overhyped as soon as the draft is over, happens every year.  
I agree, in other years. I think a few guys will get bumped up or solidify their high rookie draft projections but I don't think we will see 12 RB and WRs (combined) go in the first two rounds of the NFL draft. 

So, if your picking towards the end of the first round you're getting an NFL 3rd rounder. Not saying there isn't a ton of fantasy talent that comes in the 3rd round and later, it's just that usually you want the decision to take the higher round player or your guy that went in the 3rd+. Last year there was 8 that went in the first and 5 second. Plus, the two big QBs. 

Edit: I went and looked at some mocks for the first two rounds for this year and it might not be as off as I think. I listed most guys in the highest round I saw them but put the least to most players I saw in that round.

First Round (4 to 6) - Elliot, Treadwell, Coleman, Doctson, Fuller or Henry

Second Round (4 to 7) - Boyd, Dixon, Shepard, Booker, Thomas (Ohio St.), Miller, Collins

Yeldon/Abdullah or Dixon/Booker? Funchess/DGB or Thomas/Miller? Dorsett/Devin Smith or Fuller/Boyd? There might not be as much difference as I thought. I went with guys that are roughly in the same spot as last years NFL draft class rather than rookie draft projections. Basically, Perriman and Agholor were removed for this comp. 

 
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Caroo is a third rounder according to many sites. It's odd that he is getting so much love.

I didn't want to quote your whole post and take up the huge space but- the way you mentioned numbers has been the same for some articles this offseason and I often pause and wonder- Is this draft class slow? Was there a change with clocks that I don't know of? Since when are we excited about 4.6 guys or drawing a line like 4.57 is fine but 4.6 is no good? Is it just me? Or is something hmmmm this year?
Carroo has a couple minor character dings that are probably pushing his NFL draft stock down more than his fantasy draft stock should be.   They do appear minor but there are a lot of good receivers coming out.  

 
I'm having a great deal of trouble even trading 2016 firsts for 2017 firsts - even 2016 firsts in the 1.09 area - forget about 2016 seconds for 2017 firsts.


See:

Now isn't the time to trade 2016 picks for 2017.  2016 picks beyond the top 3 are just picks, with no faces attached.  

I have 1.8 and 1.12 in a 16 team league.  I'm not even offering.  

Wait till the NFL draft, and wait for Leonte Caroo to go to Cincy, or for Kenneth Dixon to get drafted by Philly.  Put some rookie skill guys in a spot with a nice path to playing time in a good offense, and then you can make those deals.  The 2016 picks will get overhyped as soon as the draft is over, happens every year.  
While you'll have occasional success earlier, patience is the key to maximizing the value.  The real urgency happens when a hyped guy (Dorsett last year) slips into the 2nd round.  That guy was on FIRE last year in the late mocking/projecting phase, and people were beside themselves when he was getting drafted at 18.  Someone's going to see Braxton Miller still on the board at 2.04 when they have him ranked #8 overall and they will jump.  It has happened every year for me, either a trade-down or outright trade where I net future 1sts.

My original post was only pointing out that it's bad groupthink to take some level of individual past experience and apply it universally.   That's how you talk yourself out of even trying, and if you have 0% attempts then sure, you'll have 0% success.  Just because one guy can't get a conversation going though doesn't mean "no one is trading 2017 1sts". 

 
See:

While you'll have occasional success earlier, patience is the key to maximizing the value.  The real urgency happens when a hyped guy (Dorsett last year) slips into the 2nd round.  That guy was on FIRE last year in the late mocking/projecting phase, and people were beside themselves when he was getting drafted at 18.  Someone's going to see Braxton Miller still on the board at 2.04 when they have him ranked #8 overall and they will jump.  It has happened every year for me, either a trade-down or outright trade where I net future 1sts.

My original post was only pointing out that it's bad groupthink to take some level of individual past experience and apply it universally.   That's how you talk yourself out of even trying, and if you have 0% attempts then sure, you'll have 0% success.  Just because one guy can't get a conversation going though doesn't mean "no one is trading 2017 1sts". 
You see what you did there?

I think the idea of group think isn't applicable in this situation because it's not like we (those of us getting shutdown on the 2017 1sts) are all in the same league. It's a collection of individual situations. 

It's true that usually someone falls in love with a guy but usually that guy (Dorsett last year) is already building hype, I'm sure it's part of they reason they end up getting drafted higher. I feel like guys this year are steadily drop in hype. Collins and Boyd are 2 big ones. Miller seems to have lost a ton of steam too. He was being talked about like he was going to sneak into the first round at one point. 

Picks are almost always worth the most when they are on the clock but if one person is looking to trade down it's likely other are too. But the longer you wait the higher the chances that you have to make the pick. I'm sure most of us are in leagues with people who are on the ball and ready/actively seeking to trade. So, your trade partner could offer the same thing to 1.07 and you have 1.08. Of course they are going to take the higher pick for the same price. It's always a risk/reward situation but this year it seems there isn't as much buzz around players and lots of excitement around next years class.

 
Carroo has a couple minor character dings that are probably pushing his NFL draft stock down more than his fantasy draft stock should be.   They do appear minor but there are a lot of good receivers coming out.  
...well except for body slamming a chick into the pavement.

He's a very good player who would have been even more unstoppable if Rutgers had a QB though. He's a "sleeper" in the right situation in the NFL.

 
...well except for body slamming a chick into the pavement.

He's a very good player who would have been even more unstoppable if Rutgers had a QB though. He's a "sleeper" in the right situation in the NFL.
http://www.hogshaven.com/2016/3/21/11231326/washington-redskins-2016-draft-profiles-leonte-carroo-wr

In 2015, he was suspended a half game for a curfew violation and then suspended again for allegedly body-slamming his ex-girlfriend outside the stadium following a loss to Washington State. The allegations were apparently fabricated or partially untrue, however, because all charges against Carroo were promptly dropped.

Carroo resolutely claims there are no issues with his personal character, and implores scouts to call his "elementary, middle, and high school teachers" to inquire whether he was a "good kid". 

Far be it from me to question that bastion of unquestionable news worthiness hogshaven.com, and any kind of domestic abuse is serious.  I have no dog in this fight.  I'm just saying there's at least some opinion out there that the character concerns are minor. 

 
http://www.hogshaven.com/2016/3/21/11231326/washington-redskins-2016-draft-profiles-leonte-carroo-wr

In 2015, he was suspended a half game for a curfew violation and then suspended again for allegedly body-slamming his ex-girlfriend outside the stadium following a loss to Washington State. The allegations were apparently fabricated or partially untrue, however, because all charges against Carroo were promptly dropped.

Carroo resolutely claims there are no issues with his personal character, and implores scouts to call his "elementary, middle, and high school teachers" to inquire whether he was a "good kid". 

Far be it from me to question that bastion of unquestionable news worthiness hogshaven.com, and any kind of domestic abuse is serious.  I have no dog in this fight.  I'm just saying there's at least some opinion out there that the character concerns are minor. 
Yeah I think there's some questions about what really happened but most believe something did happen and it was swept under the rug a little since he was the only mega-star on the roster. I work with a few season ticket holders, boosters, etc. While I wouldn't downplay it either I guess a momentary lapse of judgment doesn't necessarily mean he's evil incarnate and some do learn from their mistakes. He is a heck of a player. Billy Boy Belichick seems to love Rutgers players so if he ends up in NE that should boost his stock.

 
Caroo is a third rounder according to many sites. It's odd that he is getting so much love.

I didn't want to quote your whole post and take up the huge space but- the way you mentioned numbers has been the same for some articles this offseason and I often pause and wonder- Is this draft class slow? Was there a change with clocks that I don't know of? Since when are we excited about 4.6 guys or drawing a line like 4.57 is fine but 4.6 is no good? Is it just me? Or is something hmmmm this year?
This is a good question re: the timing. I think it's a little bit of "all of the above." Timing seemed a little weird at the combine, especially with the WRs. I don't know if they changed something with the way they were doing the times on NFL Network, but it seemed like the slow times across the board the first few days of the combine might have something to do with the way they were doing the start. I also think it is fair to say that this year's WR class is slower than normal even without any changes in the combine measurements. There are fewer burners in the class. 

As far as the 4.57 comment re: Thomas, I don't think there's a fine line like 4.57 is good and 4.60 is not. But I think you have to judge each player individually and a 4.57 isn't a bad time for Thomas. He's a legit 6'3, 210+ and plays big. He also timed well in the quickness drills. I think you wanted to see something in the 4.5s from him and that's what he did. 

As for Carroo, I'm with you. I don't understand why he's getting so much hype. I saw that in rookie mock drafts he is currently going in the top 5 overall. That seems way too rich for me. I can see the case for him as a late-first rounder in what is a pretty weak draft class, but I'm not getting the top 5 love. I think part of why dynasty people like him is that there is this whole group of people doing prospect analysis that are very focused on the college stats and specifically "market share." I think it's a badly flawed metric that is going to automatically make receivers on bad teams look better than receivers on teams with good depth. Carroo is a perfect example. I cover college DFS for Footballguys and focus on the B1G so I know more about Rutgers WRs than is healthy. It's a very unimpressive group. So it's not surprising that Carroo (who is a legit Day 2 prospect) was better than his teammates and racked up a huge % of the passing yardage and touchdowns. Does that tell us anything other than that he's better than a bunch of bad college players?

To continue on the "market share" tangent, I think it's especially interesting to compare Michael Thomas and Carroo. Some of the analysts who like Carroo a lot more than Thomas point to the market share stuff, but that's such an apples-to-oranges comparison. On the OSU offense, you have a 1st round RB who catches passes (Ezekiel Elliott), a round 3 TE prospect (Nick Vannett), a pair of 2nd round WRs (Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller) and another late-round draftable player (Jalin Marshall). Of course the targets are going to be spread around between those 5 guys and nobody is going to have 40% of the yards. But put Thomas on Rutgers in place of Carroo and he'd dominate targets, yardage, touchdowns, etc. in the same way Carroo did because he'd be the only legit B1G WR talent on the roster.

 
Carroo seems to have a lot of people split, the PFF guys in particular.

I have a tough time ranking this many WRs in the 1st round.  Doctson, Treadwell, Coleman for sure, I will wait and see where a guy like Shepard lands, but I'd rather take the top TE over a guy like Fuller.  And maybe rather take a shot at a back in a nice situation over guys like Thomas.  

 
Carroo seems to have a lot of people split, the PFF guys in particular.

I have a tough time ranking this many WRs in the 1st round.  Doctson, Treadwell, Coleman for sure, I will wait and see where a guy like Shepard lands, but I'd rather take the top TE over a guy like Fuller.  And maybe rather take a shot at a back in a nice situation over guys like Thomas.  
Well it's important to remember we have a ritual with the sites we frequent. Every FF site bumps up FF players ever so slightly this time of year but the NFL world favors the non FF unexciting O and D linemen. 

Cosell raved about Doctson on radio today, so it'd be customary for some sites to bump him tomorrow.

Shephard was more loved a month ago, same with Derrick Henry. I think a lot of people liked the custom-fit of Henry to Titans and starting for FF. Now it's back to debating where he goes and more questionable. 

(I live in OK so...) If you check out the articles on Oklahoma guys, it's fun to tease any number of writers. There are at least ten articles that have Ogbah not doing well because of prior OKSt DEs but Sheppard offers no mention of failed OU WR prospects.

Here's CBS weaknesses for Big 12 D player of the year and an All-american http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1996808/emmanuel-ogbah I love Rob Rang and know many others do. I wonder if that little snip is why these articles are coming out. It's just comical to be all aware of the history of OKSt DEs and ignore OUs WRs.

 
Well it's important to remember we have a ritual with the sites we frequent. Every FF site bumps up FF players ever so slightly this time of year but the NFL world favors the non FF unexciting O and D linemen. 

Cosell raved about Doctson on radio today, so it'd be customary for some sites to bump him tomorrow.

Shephard was more loved a month ago, same with Derrick Henry. I think a lot of people liked the custom-fit of Henry to Titans and starting for FF. Now it's back to debating where he goes and more questionable. 

(I live in OK so...) If you check out the articles on Oklahoma guys, it's fun to tease any number of writers. There are at least ten articles that have Ogbah not doing well because of prior OKSt DEs but Sheppard offers no mention of failed OU WR prospects.

Here's CBS weaknesses for Big 12 D player of the year and an All-american http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1996808/emmanuel-ogbah I love Rob Rang and know many others do. I wonder if that little snip is why these articles are coming out. It's just comical to be all aware of the history of OKSt DEs and ignore OUs WRs.
As a Bengals fan thinking we go WR at #24, I've gone back and forth a lot dissecting the strengths and weaknesses of the top few WRs in this class with some friends. Our consensus is that the relative lack of success of the Oklahoma guys (and B12 WRs in general) has to factor into the evaluations of Doctson, Shepard and Coleman at least to some extent. 

Shepard is kind of a weird evaluation because he mainly played in the slot, but tested in a lot of ways more like an outside WR (mediocre quickness numbers but great straight-line speed, vertical, etc.). I know Matt Harmon was really impressed with him on tape and I love what I've heard about his character and work ethic, so I am relatively bullish on him. If he lands in an offense with a good quarterback that throws the ball a lot, he'll be one of the main guys I target this year.

 
Caroo is a third rounder according to many sites. It's odd that he is getting so much love.

I didn't want to quote your whole post and take up the huge space but- the way you mentioned numbers has been the same for some articles this offseason and I often pause and wonder- Is this draft class slow? Was there a change with clocks that I don't know of? Since when are we excited about 4.6 guys or drawing a line like 4.57 is fine but 4.6 is no good? Is it just me? Or is something hmmmm this year?
People need stuff to talk about. This whole WR draft class is sloooow.

@ Dan Hindley - I agree with you the market share analysis seems to be out of hand. While I think there can be some good information to be gained by looking at college performance numbers, I think people take this metric too far and infer meaning out of it that it does not provide.

Market share of targets in the NFL would be a big deal, because everyone is good. In college, not so much. 

Show me how market share works and what predictive value it has compared to combine and other metrics, and I think we could arrive at how significant it might be (what percentage) for a players value. I am guessing market share is much lower correlation than things like 40 time and draft position (two of the most predictive metrics) which themselves are still worse than a coin flip.

 
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This is a good question re: the timing. I think it's a little bit of "all of the above." Timing seemed a little weird at the combine, especially with the WRs. I don't know if they changed something with the way they were doing the times on NFL Network, but it seemed like the slow times across the board the first few days of the combine might have something to do with the way they were doing the start. I also think it is fair to say that this year's WR class is slower than normal even without any changes in the combine measurements. There are fewer burners in the class. 

As far as the 4.57 comment re: Thomas, I don't think there's a fine line like 4.57 is good and 4.60 is not. But I think you have to judge each player individually and a 4.57 isn't a bad time for Thomas. He's a legit 6'3, 210+ and plays big. He also timed well in the quickness drills. I think you wanted to see something in the 4.5s from him and that's what he did. 

As for Carroo, I'm with you. I don't understand why he's getting so much hype. I saw that in rookie mock drafts he is currently going in the top 5 overall. That seems way too rich for me. I can see the case for him as a late-first rounder in what is a pretty weak draft class, but I'm not getting the top 5 love. I think part of why dynasty people like him is that there is this whole group of people doing prospect analysis that are very focused on the college stats and specifically "market share." I think it's a badly flawed metric that is going to automatically make receivers on bad teams look better than receivers on teams with good depth. Carroo is a perfect example. I cover college DFS for Footballguys and focus on the B1G so I know more about Rutgers WRs than is healthy. It's a very unimpressive group. So it's not surprising that Carroo (who is a legit Day 2 prospect) was better than his teammates and racked up a huge % of the passing yardage and touchdowns. Does that tell us anything other than that he's better than a bunch of bad college players?

To continue on the "market share" tangent, I think it's especially interesting to compare Michael Thomas and Carroo. Some of the analysts who like Carroo a lot more than Thomas point to the market share stuff, but that's such an apples-to-oranges comparison. On the OSU offense, you have a 1st round RB who catches passes (Ezekiel Elliott), a round 3 TE prospect (Nick Vannett), a pair of 2nd round WRs (Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller) and another late-round draftable player (Jalin Marshall). Of course the targets are going to be spread around between those 5 guys and nobody is going to have 40% of the yards. But put Thomas on Rutgers in place of Carroo and he'd dominate targets, yardage, touchdowns, etc. in the same way Carroo did because he'd be the only legit B1G WR talent on the roster.
I agree that "market share" measures favor receivers on certain sorts of teams. It's good for WRs who are the only good receiving option on their team, and bad for WRs who have lots of other good receiving options on their team.

That's why it's good to also look at other measures. Efficiency measures like yards per target favor WRs who have great teammates and a great offensive system. It's bad for receivers who are the only good receiving option on a bad team, because it's hard for a player to have high YPT when the defense can scheme to give him lots of extra attention (and when the QB is not so good at getting the ball to his receivers with accuracy & timing).

There are some systems (like Georgia Tech's run-heavy offense) which tend to inflate both the market share and the YPT for their top WR, so it's also good to look at totals: yards per game, TDs per game, 25+ receptions per game, etc. These totals will be somewhat inflated for WRs on pass-happy offenses and for WRs on good offenses, which is especially an issue for high-flying offenses like Baylor & Western Kentucky which hit both of these.

Carroo stands out as a prospect because he has very good numbers by all of these metrics. He has a huge market share, which is unusually big even for the go-to WR on a team without other good receiving options. His yards per target was one of the highest in college football, even though you'd expect guys in his situation (the go-to WR on a bad balanced offense) to struggle at YPT. Carroo also has good per-game totals (not as good as his market share or YPT, but still up there). So he has a really strong statistical profile in part because it looks good whichever way you look at it. Some comparisons:

Leonte Carroo: 101 Yd/g, 1.25 TD/g, 44% of Rec Yd, 59% of Rec TD, 13.8 YPT
Michael Thomas: 60 Yd/g, 0.69 TD/g, 32% of Rec Yd, 47% of Rec TD, 7.9 YPT
Josh Doctson: 121 Yd/g, 1.27 TD/g, 35% of Rec Yd, 42% of Rec TD, 11.4 YPT
Corey Coleman: 114 Yd/g, 1.67 TD/g, 39% of Rec Yd, 49% of Rec TD, 9.9 YPT
Laquon Treadwell: 89 Yd/g, 0.92 TD/g, 27% of Rec Yd, 32% of Rec TD, 8.4 YPT
Leonte Carroo 2014: 84 Yd/g, 0.77 TD/g, 37% of Rec Yd, 45% of Rec TD, 11.6 YPT

Would Michael Thomas's YPT have been a lot higher if he was on Rutgers, catching passes from Chris Laviano (in 2015) & Gary Nova (in 2014) instead of JT Barrett & Cardale Jones? Would Carroo's YPT have been a lot lower at Ohio State?

 
ZWK said:
I agree that "market share" measures favor receivers on certain sorts of teams. It's good for WRs who are the only good receiving option on their team, and bad for WRs who have lots of other good receiving options on their team.

That's why it's good to also look at other measures. Efficiency measures like yards per target favor WRs who have great teammates and a great offensive system. It's bad for receivers who are the only good receiving option on a bad team, because it's hard for a player to have high YPT when the defense can scheme to give him lots of extra attention (and when the QB is not so good at getting the ball to his receivers with accuracy & timing).

There are some systems (like Georgia Tech's run-heavy offense) which tend to inflate both the market share and the YPT for their top WR, so it's also good to look at totals: yards per game, TDs per game, 25+ receptions per game, etc. These totals will be somewhat inflated for WRs on pass-happy offenses and for WRs on good offenses, which is especially an issue for high-flying offenses like Baylor & Western Kentucky which hit both of these.

Carroo stands out as a prospect because he has very good numbers by all of these metrics. He has a huge market share, which is unusually big even for the go-to WR on a team without other good receiving options. His yards per target was one of the highest in college football, even though you'd expect guys in his situation (the go-to WR on a bad balanced offense) to struggle at YPT. Carroo also has good per-game totals (not as good as his market share or YPT, but still up there). So he has a really strong statistical profile in part because it looks good whichever way you look at it. Some comparisons:

Leonte Carroo: 101 Yd/g, 1.25 TD/g, 44% of Rec Yd, 59% of Rec TD, 13.8 YPT
Michael Thomas: 60 Yd/g, 0.69 TD/g, 32% of Rec Yd, 47% of Rec TD, 7.9 YPT
Josh Doctson: 121 Yd/g, 1.27 TD/g, 35% of Rec Yd, 42% of Rec TD, 11.4 YPT
Corey Coleman: 114 Yd/g, 1.67 TD/g, 39% of Rec Yd, 49% of Rec TD, 9.9 YPT
Laquon Treadwell: 89 Yd/g, 0.92 TD/g, 27% of Rec Yd, 32% of Rec TD, 8.4 YPT
Leonte Carroo 2014: 84 Yd/g, 0.77 TD/g, 37% of Rec Yd, 45% of Rec TD, 11.6 YPT

Would Michael Thomas's YPT have been a lot higher if he was on Rutgers, catching passes from Chris Laviano (in 2015) & Gary Nova (in 2014) instead of JT Barrett & Cardale Jones? Would Carroo's YPT have been a lot lower at Ohio State?
Agree that you have to look at the totality of the circumstances and adding more stats to the mix helps with that immensely. 

I'm still a bit wary of going all in with stats though because every offensive role is different. For example, I've seen some knock Laquon Treadwell for his YPT compared to his teammates. But he gets a heavy dose of screens and is the go-to guy on third-and-short and third-and-medium. It makes sense his yards per target would be lower than some of his teammates who are primarily deep threats. Anyway, I think it definitely adds to the conversation but I'm not ready to move Carroo up to #5 even if he did put up impressive college numbers. 

 
Agree that you have to look at the totality of the circumstances and adding more stats to the mix helps with that immensely. 

I'm still a bit wary of going all in with stats though because every offensive role is different. For example, I've seen some knock Laquon Treadwell for his YPT compared to his teammates. But he gets a heavy dose of screens and is the go-to guy on third-and-short and third-and-medium. It makes sense his yards per target would be lower than some of his teammates who are primarily deep threats. Anyway, I think it definitely adds to the conversation but I'm not ready to move Carroo up to #5 even if he did put up impressive college numbers. 
I am concerned about Treadwell's YPT, so at least each of us is consistent.

My approach when I think that a stat might be misleading is to try to get better stats (or to find other stats to figure out how misleading it is). For example, it would be great if there was a version of YPT which excluded screens, red zone plays, and 3rd & 5 or less plays. Then we could look at how Treadwell did on that, compared to other players.

That stat doesn't exist, but I think we can get a pretty good sense of how Treadwell would do on it by looking at other stats. We have some numbers on how often Treadwell ran screens, how often he got the ball in the red zone, and how often he got the ball on 3rd & short to medium. Treadwell:

I'd guess that this usage pattern cost him around 0.5 YPT, compared to receivers who had a more typical usage pattern on these 3 factors. (This guess is based in part on running some numbers, which I won't go into detail on here.) Treadwell's YPT is more than 0.5 below what I'd like to see from a top prospect, so I continue to see it as a negative.

 
I am concerned about Treadwell's YPT, so at least each of us is consistent.

My approach when I think that a stat might be misleading is to try to get better stats (or to find other stats to figure out how misleading it is). For example, it would be great if there was a version of YPT which excluded screens, red zone plays, and 3rd & 5 or less plays. Then we could look at how Treadwell did on that, compared to other players.

That stat doesn't exist, but I think we can get a pretty good sense of how Treadwell would do on it by looking at other stats. We have some numbers on how often Treadwell ran screens, how often he got the ball in the red zone, and how often he got the ball on 3rd & short to medium. Treadwell:

I'd guess that this usage pattern cost him around 0.5 YPT, compared to receivers who had a more typical usage pattern on these 3 factors. (This guess is based in part on running some numbers, which I won't go into detail on here.) Treadwell's YPT is more than 0.5 below what I'd like to see from a top prospect, so I continue to see it as a negative.
Any idea what Keenan Allen's yards per target was his junior year at Cal? I couldn't find target numbers anywhere.

I think Treadwell can be that kind of player at the next level and if Allen's YPT numbers were similar, that might be interesting. 

Edit: Finally found the target # and Allen had 8.38 YPT. Less than his teammates Chris Harper and Richard Rodgers who were 2nd and 3rd in receiving. 

 
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Any idea what Keenan Allen's yards per target was his junior year at Cal? I couldn't find target numbers anywhere.

I think Treadwell can be that kind of player at the next level and if Allen's YPT numbers were similar, that might be interesting. 

Edit: Finally found the target # and Allen had 8.38 YPT. Less than his teammates Chris Harper and Richard Rodgers who were 2nd and 3rd in receiving. 
Allen had 8.4 YPT as a junior and 9.1 YPT as a sophomore. Treadwell had 8.4 YPT as a junior and 8.4 YPT as a sophomore. So, similar numbers with a bit of an edge for Allen.

Allen had a lot going against him in terms of YPT, though. He was the go-to receiver on a bad passing offense which force-fed him the ball because other things weren't working. Mississippi spread the ball around much more than Cal did, so defenses couldn't focus as much attention on Treadwell as they did on Allen (especially junior year Allen after Marvin Jones left), and Chad Kelly was a much better quarterback than Zach Maynard.

You can see these differences by looking at some other stats (which I've collected in this spreadsheet). Allen had +2.7 and +2.1 YPT relative to his teammates in those two seasons (meaning that the offense averaged 2.7 and then 2.1 YPT more when throwing to Allen than when throwing elsewhere). Treadwell had +0.5 and -0.4 (after removing his passing attempts). Allen had 42% and 39% market share of the team's receiving yards. Treadwell had 27% and 26%.

 
big props to you on your analysis ZWK.  I was a lot higher on Treadwell until i read through your posts.  Nothing is guaranteed and Tread may end up great, but your unbiased statistical analysis has soured me on him.  

 
Allen had 8.4 YPT as a junior and 9.1 YPT as a sophomore. Treadwell had 8.4 YPT as a junior and 8.4 YPT as a sophomore. So, similar numbers with a bit of an edge for Allen.

Allen had a lot going against him in terms of YPT, though. He was the go-to receiver on a bad passing offense which force-fed him the ball because other things weren't working. Mississippi spread the ball around much more than Cal did, so defenses couldn't focus as much attention on Treadwell as they did on Allen (especially junior year Allen after Marvin Jones left), and Chad Kelly was a much better quarterback than Zach Maynard.

You can see these differences by looking at some other stats (which I've collected in this spreadsheet). Allen had +2.7 and +2.1 YPT relative to his teammates in those two seasons (meaning that the offense averaged 2.7 and then 2.1 YPT more when throwing to Allen than when throwing elsewhere). Treadwell had +0.5 and -0.4 (after removing his passing attempts). Allen had 42% and 39% market share of the team's receiving yards. Treadwell had 27% and 26%.
So do you rank Carroo over Treadwell due to his more impressive stats? 

 
So do you rank Carroo over Treadwell due to his more impressive stats? 
I have two separate sets of rookie rankings. First, I make rankings based on my own evaluations of players. Then second, I make rankings that I'd use to draft with which also take into account what all the experts are saying.

In my own evaluations, Carroo is ahead of Treadwell because of their stats. Carroo is 2nd (in the middle of tier 1) and Treadwell is 6th (at the top of tier 3). Ranking is: Doctson, Carroo, Coleman // Fuller, Shepard // Treadwell, Thomas (OSU), ... .

In the rankings that I'd use to draft, Treadwell is 3rd (a tier behind Doctson & Coleman) and Carroo is 4th. I can't ignore the fact that pretty much everyone has Treadwell as a 1st rounder and Carroo as a 2nd-3rd rounder. It sort of doesn't matter where I place Treadwell in those rankings, since there is pretty much no way I'll end up with him since I have him clearly behind Doctson & Coleman.

I haven't updated these since Treadwell's pro day, so he might fall farther.

 
After Zeke and Henry, I actually like Paul Perkins and Kenneth Dixon best.  I haven't seen much chatter on those 2 guys but when I watch clips of all the RBs, those 2 stand out the most outside of tier 1.

 

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