Politics and War in Ukraine (2 Viewers)

[Rohn Jambo]

You disagree with his post, and all that you can come up with is "TPW's post was plagiarized"..

If that's the top line of your debate bullet points

You want me to copy and paste a response?

If the response you cut/paste is one you agree with, sure.. Would be better than dismissing the point completely.

Plagiarism is the "wrongful appropriation" and "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work.[1][2] The idea remains problematic with unclear definitions and unclear rules.[3][4][5] The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe only in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement.

Plagiarism is considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics. It is subject to sanctions like expulsion.

Plagiarism is not a crime per se but in academia and industry it is a serious ethical offense,[6][7] and cases of plagiarism can constitute copyright infringement

.

DistractEvasive

Obfuscation

Idiocy

For you

How exactly does that not apply to you?

Hey guys, can we stay on topic, please?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So now the criticism about Obama is which meetings he attends? Are you guys serious?

Thank you for your attempts to make this thread even more unreadable.

I couldn't if I tried.

I know you think you're different from the rest of the hacks here but you most definitely are not.

I try to offer my opinion, some insight, and engage in debate. If that's being a hack, then I'm proud to be one.

Just like TPW, Hustler and jon_mx. Good for you.

Anyone who opposes your typical leftist view is a hack..I look over your contributions in this thread and I get a chuckle at you appointing yourself judge of hackery..

 

[Apple Jack]

If you're going to be a dolt, at least spare the board from stacking 50 quotes in the post. Jfc.

 

[rockaction]

I seriously have no idea what would have been more important than being at this morning's Security Team meeting.http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-skips-national-security-team-meeting-russia-ukraine_783659.html

Best foreign policy President in 40 years though.

Cut Obama some slack. It is not easy fighting two cold wars at the same time, and Putin taunching him with his unbrower.

http://310627192.r.worldcdn.net/media/k2/items/cache/fe62fb74306723ed64bfe28ddc47706b_XL.jpg

Way off-topic, but she looks either pumped up or pissed off. Woah.

 

[RBM]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

 

[matuski]

So now the criticism about Obama is which meetings he attends? Are you guys serious?

Thank you for your attempts to make this thread even more unreadable.

I couldn't if I tried.

I know you think you're different from the rest of the hacks here but you most definitely are not.

I try to offer my opinion, some insight, and engage in debate. If that's being a hack, then I'm proud to be one.

Just like TPW, Hustler and jon_mx. Good for you.

Anyone who opposes your typical leftist view is a hack..I look over your contributions in this thread and I get a chuckle at you appointing yourself judge of hackery..

I think a certain someone here gets a unanimous vote in this regard.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think a certain someone here gets a unanimous vote in this regard.

you?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

No, you send in a guy like Kerry to negotiate a bribe and make sure your cut is presidential.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

No, you send in a guy like Kerry to negotiate a bribe and make sure your cut is presidential.

Financially/economically we can make a bigger dent I think with a whole lot less bloodshed and cost to the American tax payer..

 

[Rohn Jambo]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

No, you send in a guy like Kerry to negotiate a bribe and make sure your cut is presidential.

Financially/economically we can make a bigger dent I think with a whole lot less bloodshed and cost to the American tax payer..

Financially/economically we have Alaska.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

No, you send in a guy like Kerry to negotiate a bribe and make sure your cut is presidential.

Financially/economically we can make a bigger dent I think with a whole lot less bloodshed and cost to the American tax payer..

Financially/economically we have Alaska.

What is your point?

 

[mr roboto]

Why did the Russian parliament vote unanimously? I know that Putin is heavy-handed, but you can't tell me that every single representative in that country felt that this is the best thing they could do. It just seems to me that for some reason Russia really wants this to happen, not just Putin, but the people of Russia as well.

 

[Rove!]

So now the criticism about Obama is which meetings he attends? Are you guys serious?

That was all over the right wing sites and blogs yesterday as supposed proof of something. Apparently they think it was a big deal even though he was briefed on the meeting by Susan Rice.

It's a gargantuan deal. If he's not in the meeting then he'll never know what they talked about and wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with any action that happened. This is just like when all the Republicans criticized W for "going on vacation" more than any other President. They rightfully chastised him for what amounts to skipping school.... didn't they? Er, maybe not.

I think its a legitimate expectation that the president attends almost all National Security briefings, and especially those during times of raised tension.

agreed

also, liberals consider Bush to be "on vacation" many times when he was working remotely from his ranch as some kind of twisted talking point.

We know that during the Bin Laden raid O was playing cards. During the Benghazi attack he was headed to Vegas. During the financial metldown, he spent a lot of time at the gym. This just seems to be a pattern.

Geez, they were in the Situation Room for hours waiting for news of the Bin Laden raid, he played a few hands of cards to pass the time while they were waiting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXTv4CPGtu0

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Why did the Russian parliament vote unanimously? I know that Putin is heavy-handed, but you can't tell me that every single representative in that country felt that this is the best thing they could do. It just seems to me that for some reason Russia really wants this to happen, not just Putin, but the people of Russia as well.

It rubber stamps everything from the Kremlin. There is no democratic elections so you get in the Russian Federal Assembly only if you're aligned with Putin.

 

[avoiding injuries]

How long does it take to play 15 games (not hands) of spades?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

A president who has made clear to the American public that the tide of war is receding has also made clear to foreign leaders, including opportunists in Russia, that he has no appetite for a new one. What is left is a vacuum once filled, at least in part, by the possibility of American force.

If you are effectively taking the stick option off the table, then what are you left with? said Andrew C. Kuchins, who heads the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. I dont think that Obama and his people really understand how others in the world are viewing his policies.

Rarely has a threat from a U.S. president been dismissed as quickly and comprehensively as Obamas warning Friday night to Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. The former community organizer and the former Cold Warrior share the barest of common interests, and their relationship has been defined far more by the vastly different ways they see everything from gay rights to historys legacy.

Obama called Putin on Saturday and expressed deep concern over Russias clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law, the White House said.

From a White House podium late Friday, Obama told the Russian government that there will be costs for any military foray into Ukraine, including the semiautonomous region of Crimea, a strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea.

Within hours, Putin asked the Russian parliament for approval to send forces into Ukraine. The vote endorsing his request was unanimous, Obamas warning drowned out by lawmakers rousing rendition of Russias national anthem at the end of the session. Russian troops now control the Crimean Peninsula.

Military action is not the only option, and anyone suggesting it's the primary deterrent and should always be on the table is just a warmonger.

No, you send in a guy like Kerry to negotiate a bribe and make sure your cut is presidential.

Financially/economically we can make a bigger dent I think with a whole lot less bloodshed and cost to the American tax payer..

Financially/economically we have Alaska.

What is your point?

Alaskian King Salmon

 

[timschochet]

Why did the Russian parliament vote unanimously? I know that Putin is heavy-handed, but you can't tell me that every single representative in that country felt that this is the best thing they could do. It just seems to me that for some reason Russia really wants this to happen, not just Putin, but the people of Russia as well.

Every time we invade a country, a strong majority of the public approves. Later on if it drags out people start to have doubts, but never at the beginning. And anyone who opposes it at the beginning is deemed unpatriotic. This has been true of every military action that I can recall.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

So now the criticism about Obama is which meetings he attends? Are you guys serious?

That was all over the right wing sites and blogs yesterday as supposed proof of something. Apparently they think it was a big deal even though he was briefed on the meeting by Susan Rice.

It's a gargantuan deal. If he's not in the meeting then he'll never know what they talked about and wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with any action that happened. This is just like when all the Republicans criticized W for "going on vacation" more than any other President. They rightfully chastised him for what amounts to skipping school.... didn't they? Er, maybe not.

I think its a legitimate expectation that the president attends almost all National Security briefings, and especially those during times of raised tension.

agreed

also, liberals consider Bush to be "on vacation" many times when he was working remotely from his ranch as some kind of twisted talking point.

We know that during the Bin Laden raid O was playing cards. During the Benghazi attack he was headed to Vegas. During the financial metldown, he spent a lot of time at the gym. This just seems to be a pattern.

Geez, they were in the Situation Room for hours waiting for news of the Bin Laden raid, he played a few hands of cards to pass the time while they were waiting.

I get it now why Susan Rice did not get fired. She must be good at spades.

 

[timschochet]

Susan Rice did nothing wrong. She is extremely talented. What conservatives did to her is a disgrace.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

So now the criticism about Obama is which meetings he attends? Are you guys serious?

That was all over the right wing sites and blogs yesterday as supposed proof of something. Apparently they think it was a big deal even though he was briefed on the meeting by Susan Rice.

It's a gargantuan deal. If he's not in the meeting then he'll never know what they talked about and wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with any action that happened. This is just like when all the Republicans criticized W for "going on vacation" more than any other President. They rightfully chastised him for what amounts to skipping school.... didn't they? Er, maybe not.

I think its a legitimate expectation that the president attends almost all National Security briefings, and especially those during times of raised tension.

agreed

also, liberals consider Bush to be "on vacation" many times when he was working remotely from his ranch as some kind of twisted talking point.

We know that during the Bin Laden raid O was playing cards. During the Benghazi attack he was headed to Vegas. During the financial metldown, he spent a lot of time at the gym. This just seems to be a pattern.

I think he does it on purpose to anger people just like you.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Susan Rice did nothing wrong. She is extremely talented. What conservatives did to her is a disgrace.

I thought poker may be more useful in the state department but I respect a woman who is good at cards.

 

[otello]

Kerry: Repercussions for Putin 'act of aggression' AP News 3/2/2014 1:04:25 PM - AP News
WASHINGTON (AP) — Western powers are prepared "to go to the hilt" to isolate Russia for its military incursion into Ukraine, "an incredible act of aggression" that may lead to visa bans, asset freezes, trade and investment penalties, and a boycott of a Russian-hosted economic summit of global powers in June, Secretary of State John Kerry said Sunday.

Kerry said Russian President Vladimir Putin should respect the democratic process through which the Ukrainian people ousted their pro-Russian president and assembled a new government.

But President Barack Obama had pressed his case in a 90-minute phone call Saturday with Putin, calling Russia's actions "a clear violation" of Ukraine's sovereignty, and asking for his forces to pull back, and still the situation only grew more dire Sunday.

Ukraine's new prime minister warned that "we are on the brink of disaster," while hundreds of armed men in trucks and armored vehicles surrounded a Ukrainian military base in Crimea.

Kerry is considering a stop in Kiev, Ukraine's capital, during his trip this coming week to Paris and Rome for discussions on Lebanon and Syria.

Despite the strong words Sunday from America's top diplomat, the Obama administration struggled to find a response that might deter Putin, who contends that the turmoil in its neighbor posed real threats to the life and health of Russian citizens living in Ukraine and that Moscow has the right to protect them.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., suggested suspending Russia's membership in the Group of Eight leading industrial powers for at least a year, "starting right now," and admitting Georgia into NATO in an effort to create "a democratic noose around Putin's Russia."

"Let's challenge him where we can," Graham said, explaining why he also favors reviving plans for a U.S. missile defense system with components in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Russia's "incredible act of aggression" amounts to "a stunning willful choice" by Putin to invade another country on a "trumped-up pretext," Kerry said.

Kerry said he spoke on Saturday with foreign ministers from the G-8 and a few other nations, and "every single one of them are prepared to go to the hilt in order to isolate Russia" because of the invasion.

"They're prepared to put sanctions in place. They're prepared to isolate Russia economically. The ruble is already going down. Russia has major economic challenges. I can't imagine that an occupation of another country is something that appeals to a people who are trying to reach out to the world, and particularly if it involves violence," Kerry said.

Kerry also mentioned visa bans, the freezing of Russian assets, trade and investment penalties. He suggested American companies "may well want to start thinking twice about whether they want to do business with a country that behaves like this."

He said the U.S. was "absolutely prepared" to boycott the G-8 meeting planned for June in Sochi, Russia, site of the just-concluded Winter Olympics, "if we can't resolve it otherwise."

Putin is "not going to have a Sochi G-8. He may not even remain in the G-8 if this continues," Kerry said. Along with the potential loss of foreign business investment and other economic penalties, that would be "a huge price to pay," Kerry said, calling Russia isolated. "That is not a position of strength."

The G-8 countries are the U.S., Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia.

Kerry also said the administration was ready to provide economic assistance "of a major sort" to Ukraine.

He made clear that a military response to counter Russia's action was unlikely.

"The last thing anybody wants is a military option," he said. "We want a peaceful resolution through the normal processes of international relations."

The U.S. and Europe are not obligated to come to Ukraine's defense because it does not have full-member status in NATO. Broader international action through the United Nations seems all but impossible because of Russia's veto power as a permanent member of the Security Council.

Kerry tried to frame the crisis as broader than U.S. versus Russia or East versus West. "We're not trying to make this a Cold War," he said. It's about Ukrainians "fighting against the tyranny of having political opposition put in jail."

Kerry was interviewed on CBS' "Face the Nation," NBC's "Meet the Press" and ABC's "This Week." Graham appeared on CNN's "State of the Union."

 

[Rohn Jambo]

"The last thing anybody wants is a military option," he said. "We want a peaceful resolution through the normal processes of international relations."

Kerry is not so dumb. He knows that before you take bribes to unfreeze assets that you have to freeze them first.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I seriously have no idea what would have been more important than being at this morning's Security Team meeting.http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-skips-national-security-team-meeting-russia-ukraine_783659.html

Best foreign policy President in 40 years though.

Cut Obama some slack. It is not easy fighting two cold wars at the same time, and Putin taunching him with his unibrower.http://310627192.r.worldcdn.net/media/k2/items/cache/fe62fb74306723ed64bfe28ddc47706b_XL.jpg

Way off-topic, but she looks either pumped up or pissed off. Woah.

Have you been in the Tiger Woods thread? It is not off-topic. Before you bet on a horse, you have to evaluate everything that may affect its game.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Putin should remember that it was military over-extension, political ferment and economic bankruptcy that doomed the original Soviet Union.

I doubt we will get involved. Obama should let Putin keep playing the bully. Russia's military weakness was already exposed in the Georgian war. Russia's military action will hurt Russian international standing, which would hurt Putin.

 

[timschochet]

Kerry: Repercussions for Putin 'act of aggression' AP News 3/2/2014 1:04:25 PM - AP News

WASHINGTON (AP) Western powers are prepared "to go to the hilt" to isolate Russia for its military incursion into Ukraine, "an incredible act of aggression" that may lead to visa bans, asset freezes, trade and investment penalties, and a boycott of a Russian-hosted economic summit of global powers in June, Secretary of State John Kerry said Sunday.

Kerry said Russian President Vladimir Putin should respect the democratic process through which the Ukrainian people ousted their pro-Russian president and assembled a new government.

But President Barack Obama had pressed his case in a 90-minute phone call Saturday with Putin, calling Russia's actions "a clear violation" of Ukraine's sovereignty, and asking for his forces to pull back, and still the situation only grew more dire Sunday.

Ukraine's new prime minister warned that "we are on the brink of disaster," while hundreds of armed men in trucks and armored vehicles surrounded a Ukrainian military base in Crimea.

Kerry is considering a stop in Kiev, Ukraine's capital, during his trip this coming week to Paris and Rome for discussions on Lebanon and Syria.

Despite the strong words Sunday from America's top diplomat, the Obama administration struggled to find a response that might deter Putin, who contends that the turmoil in its neighbor posed real threats to the life and health of Russian citizens living in Ukraine and that Moscow has the right to protect them.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., suggested suspending Russia's membership in the Group of Eight leading industrial powers for at least a year, "starting right now," and admitting Georgia into NATO in an effort to create "a democratic noose around Putin's Russia."

"Let's challenge him where we can," Graham said, explaining why he also favors reviving plans for a U.S. missile defense system with components in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Russia's "incredible act of aggression" amounts to "a stunning willful choice" by Putin to invade another country on a "trumped-up pretext," Kerry said.

Kerry said he spoke on Saturday with foreign ministers from the G-8 and a few other nations, and "every single one of them are prepared to go to the hilt in order to isolate Russia" because of the invasion.

"They're prepared to put sanctions in place. They're prepared to isolate Russia economically. The ruble is already going down. Russia has major economic challenges. I can't imagine that an occupation of another country is something that appeals to a people who are trying to reach out to the world, and particularly if it involves violence," Kerry said.

Kerry also mentioned visa bans, the freezing of Russian assets, trade and investment penalties. He suggested American companies "may well want to start thinking twice about whether they want to do business with a country that behaves like this."

He said the U.S. was "absolutely prepared" to boycott the G-8 meeting planned for June in Sochi, Russia, site of the just-concluded Winter Olympics, "if we can't resolve it otherwise."

Putin is "not going to have a Sochi G-8. He may not even remain in the G-8 if this continues," Kerry said. Along with the potential loss of foreign business investment and other economic penalties, that would be "a huge price to pay," Kerry said, calling Russia isolated. "That is not a position of strength."

The G-8 countries are the U.S., Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia.

Kerry also said the administration was ready to provide economic assistance "of a major sort" to Ukraine.

He made clear that a military response to counter Russia's action was unlikely.

"The last thing anybody wants is a military option," he said. "We want a peaceful resolution through the normal processes of international relations."

The U.S. and Europe are not obligated to come to Ukraine's defense because it does not have full-member status in NATO. Broader international action through the United Nations seems all but impossible because of Russia's veto power as a permanent member of the Security Council.

Kerry tried to frame the crisis as broader than U.S. versus Russia or East versus West. "We're not trying to make this a Cold War," he said. It's about Ukrainians "fighting against the tyranny of having political opposition put in jail."

Kerry was interviewed on CBS' "Face the Nation," NBC's "Meet the Press" and ABC's "This Week." Graham appeared on CNN's "State of the Union."

But I thought Obama isn't doing anything. He didn't even attend the meeting!

 

[squistion]

But I thought Obama isn't doing anything. He didn't even attend the meeting!

Yeah, I thought they said he was playing cards again.

 

[timschochet]

But I thought Obama isn't doing anything. He didn't even attend the meeting!

Yeah, I thought they said he was playing cards again.

Spunds like he's involved in a game of poker with Vlad Putin.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I'm reading a lot of opinions from Europe and other places that they are surprised that western countries are speaking to the new government in Ukraine. A lot of the world citizens find it strange that he a coup can take place and the US and others will begin to interact with them as though they were a legitimate government immediately. Technically, the government in place right now simply took over. It is not a legitimate government.

After the dictator left, why wouldn't we ring the new guys to say hello and ask what they have planned? (I'm not good with politics, in case you couldn't tell )

Yanukovych wasn't a dictator. He was elected president. He was also impeached by Ukraine's parliament.

Well Yanukovych and his supporters fixed the elections. That doesn't make him a dictator, but he is about as corrupt as they come. And if you were Russia and you were playing the long game, it certainly would have been part of the grand plan to keep this puppet in power. Whereas the US is going to back any opposition that favors better relations with the West.

Yanukovich's house on salary of $500 a month:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571408/New-pictures-eye-opening-opulence-ousted-Ukrainian-president-Yanukovichs-palace-sprawling-estate-tourist-attraction.html

 

[jon_mx]

I haven't read through any of this yet...has Obama nuked Russia yet?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I'm reading a lot of opinions from Europe and other places that they are surprised that western countries are speaking to the new government in Ukraine. A lot of the world citizens find it strange that he a coup can take place and the US and others will begin to interact with them as though they were a legitimate government immediately. Technically, the government in place right now simply took over. It is not a legitimate government.

After the dictator left, why wouldn't we ring the new guys to say hello and ask what they have planned? (I'm not good with politics, in case you couldn't tell )

Yanukovych wasn't a dictator. He was elected president. He was also impeached by Ukraine's parliament.

Well Yanukovych and his supporters fixed the elections. That doesn't make him a dictator, but he is about as corrupt as they come. And if you were Russia and you were playing the long game, it certainly would have been part of the grand plan to keep this puppet in power. Whereas the US is going to back any opposition that favors better relations with the West.

Yanukovich's house on salary of $500 a month:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571408/New-pictures-eye-opening-opulence-ousted-Ukrainian-president-Yanukovichs-palace-sprawling-estate-tourist-attraction.html

ETA: It is nothing compared to Putin's house on the Black Sea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEf5ZO-dpmQ

 

[jon_mx]

I haven't read through any of this yet...has Obama nuked Russia yet?

He's playing cards while important national security meetings are taking place.

Well as long as Kerry is around, I guess the world is safe.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

But I thought Obama isn't doing anything. He didn't even attend the meeting!

Yeah, I thought they said he was playing cards again.

Spunds like he's involved in a game of poker with Vlad Putin.

This is good reading

 

[Monty Burns]

One thing I saw discussed on a few of this mornings political talk shows was to hurt Russia financially by greatly pumping up our production of oil and natural gas. This would, of course, sharply reduce their prices, greatly hurting the Russians energy income. One person said that we could use this increase in our production and sell our then excess to western Europe, which is heavily dependent on Soviet energy. The people discussing this thought it was very doubtful that Obama would do this though, because of his preferred domestic energy policies.

 

[[icon]]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

 

[Homer J Simpson]

One thing I saw discussed on a few of this mornings political talk shows was to hurt Russia financially by greatly pumping up our production of oil and natural gas. This would, of course, sharply reduce their prices, greatly hurting the Russians energy income. One person said that we could use this increase in our production and sell our then excess to western Europe, which is heavily dependent on Soviet energy. The people discussing this thought it was very doubtful that Obama would do this though, because of his preferred domestic energy policies.

How do "we" increase production? Despite what some people think, Obama hasn't yet enacted his totalitarian socialist regime.

(and btw, despite snarkiness, that's a legit question)

 

[mr roboto]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

From that site, about Crimean local gov't...

Sort out whos boss in Kiev, Crimea takes care of itself republics parliament speaker.

Ukraines autonomous republic of Crimea wants Kiev to stay out of its business, and put its own house in order first, the Crimean parliament speaker has said, adding that local authorities can meanwhile take care of local business.

Facts you need to know about Crimea and why it is in turmoil

You in Kiev sort it out between yourselves, and we will deal with the republics problems, Vladimir Konstantinov told a news conference.

The top priority for Crimean authorities is to hold a referendum on whether it should have greater autonomy, the speaker said. Such a referendum has been scheduled for March 30.

Konstantinov said the self-proclaimed government in Kiev discredited itself by breaking an agreement it signed with ousted President Viktor Yanukovich. It started chaos in the country and is busy abruptly changing legislation instead of calming down the situation.

The situation in southeastern Ukraine is very tense. People are trying to protect themselves. We all know what that Nazi gang [in Kiev] is capable of. I am sorry that respectable politicians in Kiev decided to settle their scores with the help of that terrible force, he said.

Most of the Crimean law enforcement and military share this point of view, Konstantinov said. They also support the local self-defense forces, who are basically people who were scared for their lives and their families in the wake of the violence in Kiev and the anti-Russian gestures of the new authorities.

Konstantinov said Crimea would give asylum to anyone persecuted elsewhere in Ukraine for their political views and beliefs.

The speaker advised Kiev against using force to attempt to take control of Crimea or any other region resisting it. He said such a move would end with the new authorities having no region to call their own in Ukraine.

He thanked Russia for agreeing to help Crimea in a difficult situation.

We turned to Russia for help in ensuring law and order, and providing financial aid in this difficult period. This request was granted. Now a working group in Moscow is talking about the technical details of this issue, Konstantinov said.

The speaker declined to identify armed men in uniforms without insignia, who had been guarding key locations in Crimea for several days. Kiev alleges these are units of the Russian military invading Ukraine.

Konstantinov said that Crimea was part of the Russian world and does not welcome NATO. He also stressed that despite this pro-Russian leaning, the people of Crimea dont have problems with Ukrainians, but have problems with radical nationalists and neo-Nazis, who played a big role in ousting President Yanukovich.

The speaker said the Crimea needs self-governance by an inclusive government, which would take into consideration the interests of all its people, be they Ukrainians, Russians or Tatars. The latter groups are a substantial minority in Crimea, and local Russians, being a minority in the whole of Ukraine, can sympathize with the Tatars, Konstantinov said.

We are prepared to offer Crimean Tatars a level of authority that they never had before, he said.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

And you've all watched the Winter Olympics in Sochi. It is more expensive than all previous Winter Olypics combined.

Sochi costed $50B, 25 times the $2B spent on the one at Salt Lake City. When it comes to corruption, clearly Romney was in little leagues compared to Putin. Obama on the other hand...

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

From that site, about Crimean local gov't...

Sort out whos boss in Kiev, Crimea takes care of itself republics parliament speaker.

Ukraines autonomous republic of Crimea wants Kiev to stay out of its business, and put its own house in order first, the Crimean parliament speaker has said, adding that local authorities can meanwhile take care of local business.

Facts you need to know about Crimea and why it is in turmoil

You in Kiev sort it out between yourselves, and we will deal with the republics problems, Vladimir Konstantinov told a news conference.

The top priority for Crimean authorities is to hold a referendum on whether it should have greater autonomy, the speaker said. Such a referendum has been scheduled for March 30.

Konstantinov said the self-proclaimed government in Kiev discredited itself by breaking an agreement it signed with ousted President Viktor Yanukovich. It started chaos in the country and is busy abruptly changing legislation instead of calming down the situation.

The situation in southeastern Ukraine is very tense. People are trying to protect themselves. We all know what that Nazi gang [in Kiev] is capable of. I am sorry that respectable politicians in Kiev decided to settle their scores with the help of that terrible force, he said.

Most of the Crimean law enforcement and military share this point of view, Konstantinov said. They also support the local self-defense forces, who are basically people who were scared for their lives and their families in the wake of the violence in Kiev and the anti-Russian gestures of the new authorities.

Konstantinov said Crimea would give asylum to anyone persecuted elsewhere in Ukraine for their political views and beliefs.

The speaker advised Kiev against using force to attempt to take control of Crimea or any other region resisting it. He said such a move would end with the new authorities having no region to call their own in Ukraine.

He thanked Russia for agreeing to help Crimea in a difficult situation.

We turned to Russia for help in ensuring law and order, and providing financial aid in this difficult period. This request was granted. Now a working group in Moscow is talking about the technical details of this issue, Konstantinov said.

The speaker declined to identify armed men in uniforms without insignia, who had been guarding key locations in Crimea for several days. Kiev alleges these are units of the Russian military invading Ukraine.

Konstantinov said that Crimea was part of the Russian world and does not welcome NATO. He also stressed that despite this pro-Russian leaning, the people of Crimea dont have problems with Ukrainians, but have problems with radical nationalists and neo-Nazis, who played a big role in ousting President Yanukovich.

The speaker said the Crimea needs self-governance by an inclusive government, which would take into consideration the interests of all its people, be they Ukrainians, Russians or Tatars. The latter groups are a substantial minority in Crimea, and local Russians, being a minority in the whole of Ukraine, can sympathize with the Tatars, Konstantinov said.

We are prepared to offer Crimean Tatars a level of authority that they never had before, he said.

Crimea in the South is pro-Russian. Ukraine is in the middle.

 

[mr roboto]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

From that site, about Crimean local gov't...

Sort out whos boss in Kiev, Crimea takes care of itself republics parliament speaker.

Ukraines autonomous republic of Crimea wants Kiev to stay out of its business, and put its own house in order first, the Crimean parliament speaker has said, adding that local authorities can meanwhile take care of local business.

Facts you need to know about Crimea and why it is in turmoil

You in Kiev sort it out between yourselves, and we will deal with the republics problems, Vladimir Konstantinov told a news conference.

The top priority for Crimean authorities is to hold a referendum on whether it should have greater autonomy, the speaker said. Such a referendum has been scheduled for March 30.

Konstantinov said the self-proclaimed government in Kiev discredited itself by breaking an agreement it signed with ousted President Viktor Yanukovich. It started chaos in the country and is busy abruptly changing legislation instead of calming down the situation.

The situation in southeastern Ukraine is very tense. People are trying to protect themselves. We all know what that Nazi gang [in Kiev] is capable of. I am sorry that respectable politicians in Kiev decided to settle their scores with the help of that terrible force, he said.

Most of the Crimean law enforcement and military share this point of view, Konstantinov said. They also support the local self-defense forces, who are basically people who were scared for their lives and their families in the wake of the violence in Kiev and the anti-Russian gestures of the new authorities.

Konstantinov said Crimea would give asylum to anyone persecuted elsewhere in Ukraine for their political views and beliefs.

The speaker advised Kiev against using force to attempt to take control of Crimea or any other region resisting it. He said such a move would end with the new authorities having no region to call their own in Ukraine.

He thanked Russia for agreeing to help Crimea in a difficult situation.

We turned to Russia for help in ensuring law and order, and providing financial aid in this difficult period. This request was granted. Now a working group in Moscow is talking about the technical details of this issue, Konstantinov said.

The speaker declined to identify armed men in uniforms without insignia, who had been guarding key locations in Crimea for several days. Kiev alleges these are units of the Russian military invading Ukraine.

Konstantinov said that Crimea was part of the Russian world and does not welcome NATO. He also stressed that despite this pro-Russian leaning, the people of Crimea dont have problems with Ukrainians, but have problems with radical nationalists and neo-Nazis, who played a big role in ousting President Yanukovich.

The speaker said the Crimea needs self-governance by an inclusive government, which would take into consideration the interests of all its people, be they Ukrainians, Russians or Tatars. The latter groups are a substantial minority in Crimea, and local Russians, being a minority in the whole of Ukraine, can sympathize with the Tatars, Konstantinov said.

We are prepared to offer Crimean Tatars a level of authority that they never had before, he said.

Crimea in the South is pro-Russian. Ukraine is in the middle.

I know. It's interesting that the Crimean govt is welcoming Russia. Wonder if that's true sentiment or they've been promised lots of rubles from Vlad.

 

[matuski]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

From that site, about Crimean local gov't...

Sort out whos boss in Kiev, Crimea takes care of itself republics parliament speaker.

Ukraines autonomous republic of Crimea wants Kiev to stay out of its business, and put its own house in order first, the Crimean parliament speaker has said, adding that local authorities can meanwhile take care of local business.

Facts you need to know about Crimea and why it is in turmoil

You in Kiev sort it out between yourselves, and we will deal with the republics problems, Vladimir Konstantinov told a news conference.

The top priority for Crimean authorities is to hold a referendum on whether it should have greater autonomy, the speaker said. Such a referendum has been scheduled for March 30.

Konstantinov said the self-proclaimed government in Kiev discredited itself by breaking an agreement it signed with ousted President Viktor Yanukovich. It started chaos in the country and is busy abruptly changing legislation instead of calming down the situation.

The situation in southeastern Ukraine is very tense. People are trying to protect themselves. We all know what that Nazi gang [in Kiev] is capable of. I am sorry that respectable politicians in Kiev decided to settle their scores with the help of that terrible force, he said.

Most of the Crimean law enforcement and military share this point of view, Konstantinov said. They also support the local self-defense forces, who are basically people who were scared for their lives and their families in the wake of the violence in Kiev and the anti-Russian gestures of the new authorities.

Konstantinov said Crimea would give asylum to anyone persecuted elsewhere in Ukraine for their political views and beliefs.

The speaker advised Kiev against using force to attempt to take control of Crimea or any other region resisting it. He said such a move would end with the new authorities having no region to call their own in Ukraine.

He thanked Russia for agreeing to help Crimea in a difficult situation.

We turned to Russia for help in ensuring law and order, and providing financial aid in this difficult period. This request was granted. Now a working group in Moscow is talking about the technical details of this issue, Konstantinov said.

The speaker declined to identify armed men in uniforms without insignia, who had been guarding key locations in Crimea for several days. Kiev alleges these are units of the Russian military invading Ukraine.

Konstantinov said that Crimea was part of the Russian world and does not welcome NATO. He also stressed that despite this pro-Russian leaning, the people of Crimea dont have problems with Ukrainians, but have problems with radical nationalists and neo-Nazis, who played a big role in ousting President Yanukovich.

The speaker said the Crimea needs self-governance by an inclusive government, which would take into consideration the interests of all its people, be they Ukrainians, Russians or Tatars. The latter groups are a substantial minority in Crimea, and local Russians, being a minority in the whole of Ukraine, can sympathize with the Tatars, Konstantinov said.

We are prepared to offer Crimean Tatars a level of authority that they never had before, he said.

Crimea in the South is pro-Russian. Ukraine is in the middle.

I know. It's interesting that the Crimean govt is welcoming Russia. Wonder if that's true sentiment or they've been promised lots of rubles from Vlad.

The article says Crimea requested and received financial assistance from Russia. So maybe a bit of both?

 

[Monty Burns]

One thing I saw discussed on a few of this mornings political talk shows was to hurt Russia financially by greatly pumping up our production of oil and natural gas. This would, of course, sharply reduce their prices, greatly hurting the Russians energy income. One person said that we could use this increase in our production and sell our then excess to western Europe, which is heavily dependent on Soviet energy. The people discussing this thought it was very doubtful that Obama would do this though, because of his preferred domestic energy policies.

How do "we" increase production? Despite what some people think, Obama hasn't yet enacted his totalitarian socialist regime.

(and btw, despite snarkiness, that's a legit question)

some options for this, per the "heads" on the talk shows, included approving the Keystone Pipeline, opening up more federal and offshore lands to exploration/drilling, and increased use of fracking....

EDIT: and yes I know, these ideas are controversial...

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Russian News Website (English Language) for perspective

From that site, about Crimean local gov't...

Sort out whos boss in Kiev, Crimea takes care of itself republics parliament speaker.

Ukraines autonomous republic of Crimea wants Kiev to stay out of its business, and put its own house in order first, the Crimean parliament speaker has said, adding that local authorities can meanwhile take care of local business.

Facts you need to know about Crimea and why it is in turmoil

You in Kiev sort it out between yourselves, and we will deal with the republics problems, Vladimir Konstantinov told a news conference.

The top priority for Crimean authorities is to hold a referendum on whether it should have greater autonomy, the speaker said. Such a referendum has been scheduled for March 30.

Konstantinov said the self-proclaimed government in Kiev discredited itself by breaking an agreement it signed with ousted President Viktor Yanukovich. It started chaos in the country and is busy abruptly changing legislation instead of calming down the situation.

The situation in southeastern Ukraine is very tense. People are trying to protect themselves. We all know what that Nazi gang [in Kiev] is capable of. I am sorry that respectable politicians in Kiev decided to settle their scores with the help of that terrible force, he said.

Most of the Crimean law enforcement and military share this point of view, Konstantinov said. They also support the local self-defense forces, who are basically people who were scared for their lives and their families in the wake of the violence in Kiev and the anti-Russian gestures of the new authorities.

Konstantinov said Crimea would give asylum to anyone persecuted elsewhere in Ukraine for their political views and beliefs.

The speaker advised Kiev against using force to attempt to take control of Crimea or any other region resisting it. He said such a move would end with the new authorities having no region to call their own in Ukraine.

He thanked Russia for agreeing to help Crimea in a difficult situation.

We turned to Russia for help in ensuring law and order, and providing financial aid in this difficult period. This request was granted. Now a working group in Moscow is talking about the technical details of this issue, Konstantinov said.

The speaker declined to identify armed men in uniforms without insignia, who had been guarding key locations in Crimea for several days. Kiev alleges these are units of the Russian military invading Ukraine.

Konstantinov said that Crimea was part of the Russian world and does not welcome NATO. He also stressed that despite this pro-Russian leaning, the people of Crimea dont have problems with Ukrainians, but have problems with radical nationalists and neo-Nazis, who played a big role in ousting President Yanukovich.

The speaker said the Crimea needs self-governance by an inclusive government, which would take into consideration the interests of all its people, be they Ukrainians, Russians or Tatars. The latter groups are a substantial minority in Crimea, and local Russians, being a minority in the whole of Ukraine, can sympathize with the Tatars, Konstantinov said.

We are prepared to offer Crimean Tatars a level of authority that they never had before, he said.

Crimea in the South is pro-Russian. Ukraine is in the middle.

I know. It's interesting that the Crimean govt is welcoming Russia. Wonder if that's true sentiment or they've been promised lots of rubles from Vlad.

The article says Crimea requested and received financial assistance from Russia. So maybe a bit of both?

Crimea is 60% ethnic Russians, 25% ethnic Ukrainians and 12% minority Tatars.

 

[Dippa]

I'm pretty sure RT is basically Russian state-run propaganda. I've been seeing them getting blasted on Twitter a lot today, FWIW.

 

[StrikeS2k]

One thing I saw discussed on a few of this mornings political talk shows was to hurt Russia financially by greatly pumping up our production of oil and natural gas. This would, of course, sharply reduce their prices, greatly hurting the Russians energy income. One person said that we could use this increase in our production and sell our then excess to western Europe, which is heavily dependent on Soviet energy. The people discussing this thought it was very doubtful that Obama would do this though, because of his preferred domestic energy policies.

How do "we" increase production? Despite what some people think, Obama hasn't yet enacted his totalitarian socialist regime.

(and btw, despite snarkiness, that's a legit question)

some options for this, per the "heads" on the talk shows, included approving the Keystone Pipeline, opening up more federal lands to exploration/drilling, and increased use of fracking....

EDIT: and yes I know, these ideas are controversial...

Uh, won't those ideas take years to implement? I think this might be over sooner than that.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

mmmmm...Tatars....

 

[Homer J Simpson]

One thing I saw discussed on a few of this mornings political talk shows was to hurt Russia financially by greatly pumping up our production of oil and natural gas. This would, of course, sharply reduce their prices, greatly hurting the Russians energy income. One person said that we could use this increase in our production and sell our then excess to western Europe, which is heavily dependent on Soviet energy. The people discussing this thought it was very doubtful that Obama would do this though, because of his preferred domestic energy policies.

How do "we" increase production? Despite what some people think, Obama hasn't yet enacted his totalitarian socialist regime.(and btw, despite snarkiness, that's a legit question)

some options for this, per the "heads" on the talk shows, included approving the Keystone Pipeline, opening up more federal lands to exploration/drilling, and increased use of fracking....EDIT: and yes I know, these ideas are controversial...

Uh, won't those ideas take years to implement? I think this might be over sooner than that.

Yeah, this sounds pretty pointless.

 

[Apple Jack]

mmmmm...Tatars....

 

[Apple Jack]

Just shoring up the black sea base in Crimea and letting the new guys in Kiev know he's not afraid to f them up. If he can squeeze something from the west for standing down, net positive.