***Official*** Washington Redskins 2013 Thread (1 Viewer)

[MattFancy]

First I've heard this.

Shanahan declined to respond directly to a question Monday about whether he thinks the Redskins’ results during the remainder of this season will

determine his future with the team or whether he instead has been given assurances by Snyder he will return next season.

“I don’t talk about those things during the season for obvious reasons,” Shanahan said.

It does not appear that such an assurance has been given. A person familiar with the Redskins’ planning said in recent days it was “too early” to know whether Shanahan’s job is safe beyond this season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahan-with-his-job-under-scrutiny-defends-his-tenure-says-cap-penalty-hurt/2013/11/18/234463ba-50a9-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_story.html

So basically that person said nothing? Too early to know? Well of course it is. I'm sure if the Skins were to lose the final 6 games, Shanny probably won't be around. If we win all 6, he'll be around. Other than that, who knows.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

The league approving the contracts is absolutely something to be upset about but whether is was verbal, said with a wink or written in invisible ink , the league warned them about dumping salary.

It's one thing if they skirted the leagues request, they straight went all in dumping enormous amounts of salary.

But again, we weren't the only team doing it. So why did we get punished the most? Funny how Mara and Lorie were the ones pushing it and the only teams to lose money were both in the NFC East.

Because the Skins dumped 40 million dollars. IIRC, the Cowboys were the second most egregious offenders and dumped roughly 10 million.

Tampa and the Raiders were the other two I think.

One could add why other team's were not assessed cap penalties for not meeting the minimum either? I'd say that is a violation of the spirit of the cap. The reason why Redskins and Cowboys got the cap penalty is because an owner who is a divisional rival of the two was in charge of the competition committee.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Redskins fans afraid of moving on from Shanahan should read this post from a Texans fan in another thread---If he gets an extension, this is exactly where we'll be. Kind of scary, actually.

Last time, after several years of mediocrity, they signed him to an extension with 1 year left on his deal with the logic being that the stability would make things easier. They didn't want him to have to deal with a coaching staff that wasn't sure where they'd be working next year.

...and now he has 1 year left on that previous extension.

I like Kubes in that he seems like a very nice guy, but he's loyal to a fault (look at all the inept defensive coordinators that he promoted from within and all the Denver players/coaches he's brought in over the years). He's also horrible about playing not to lose and if I didn't know better, I'd think he was an idiot the way he handles time outs and challenges. He pieced together a really nice offense when he came here with just one superstar WR and a bunch of castaways, but I'm ready to move on.

 

[fatness]

First I've heard this.

Shanahan declined to respond directly to a question Monday about whether he thinks the Redskins’ results during the remainder of this season will

determine his future with the team or whether he instead has been given assurances by Snyder he will return next season.

“I don’t talk about those things during the season for obvious reasons,” Shanahan said.

It does not appear that such an assurance has been given. A person familiar with the Redskins’ planning said in recent days it was “too early” to know whether Shanahan’s job is safe beyond this season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahan-with-his-job-under-scrutiny-defends-his-tenure-says-cap-penalty-hurt/2013/11/18/234463ba-50a9-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_story.html

So basically that person said nothing? Too early to know? Well of course it is. I'm sure if the Skins were to lose the final 6 games, Shanny probably won't be around. If we win all 6, he'll be around. Other than that, who knows.

"Too early to know" is far, far different from "he's under contract so of course he'll be back".

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Thoughts about Santana Moss' quote here?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1858271-robert-griffin-iiis-comments-spark-rebuttal-from-santana-moss

“At the end of the day, I was seen with the ball in my hand last, as a quarterback I’m saying,” Moss said Tuesday on The LaVar Arrington show with Chad Dukes, “and if it didn’t get done then I’m going to let you know it was me.”

Moss went on a long tangent about taking responsibility and called for every player on the team to take accountability for their failures.

"...as a leader, you understand that if you’re involved in the situation, whether you’re the receiver, the quarterback, the guys making the tackle, whoever, regardless of the outcome, good or bad, you have to at some point, stand up and say 'me' or 'I'."

 

[dgreen]

Everyone is all over Griffin. He's doing a horrible job recently of being a leader on the team. If they aren't already, things are going to get really out of control.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Yeah, Mike Freeman (used to be CBS, Bleacher Report now) tweeted earlier that he was texting with a teammate about RG3 and just said "Oh boy. Ohhh boy" or something along those lines. I didn't see him elaborate on that any yet though.

The Moss quotes stood out to me as I do not perceive him as someone who'd get caught up in this kind of stuff.

 

[Marvelous]

There's so much that you guys have posted that I agree with I can't possibly quote it all. I'll just quote this one, since it's really what we're talking about at this point -- who runs things.

Haslett and Kyle needs to go for sure, Dad will never drop his son, so he will go also. 2014 is his last year, and he basically will be a lame duck coach, No player is going to come here for that.

There's the excuse of the salary cap hit, but you have to remember that that hit occurred because the front office (Allen, Shanahan, Snyder) decided to use the uncapped year in a way other teams did not. The people responsible for that decision don't deserve the benefit of the "league was unfair to the Skins" excuse. They knew there was risk, they knew they were trying something different, it was hailed as a genius move, it failed, that's on them.

I wanted to make one comment on the salary cap penalty. The $36M comes directly from the cap hits the Redskins took for restructuring Albert Haynesworth's and DeAngelo Hall's contracts. The Redskins were required to take the cap hits at some point. They tried to restructure them so they all fell into the uncapped year. And the league did not allow it.

If they played it straight, they would have taken Haynesworth's cap hit in 2011 and 2012 when they traded him. They would have taken Hall's cap hit in 2011, 2012, 2013 and possibly 2014 since he was cut last offseason.

The Redskins really are that much worse off than if they did nothing. The did lose control of when the cap hit would be.

The bottom line: there is a big price to pay when a team give Albert Haynesworth $40M and he does nothing and they need to get rid of him after two year. They tried to get out of it, but the league would not allow it.

 

[Marvelous]

P. Riley was a good find...of course not world beater, but good find non the less. K. Robinson was to be primed to start taking Fletch's spot this season, but he got hurt and now who knows...You make some decent points though ConnSKINS.

Jarvis Jenkins looked really good until his injury. It's not clear to me that he will ever fully recover.

Shanahan has Maurice Hurt, Tom Compton, Adam Gettis, and Josh Leribeus as back OL. They are all draft picks, late rounders except Leribeus. Maybe one or more will become a starter. I think Maurice Hurt's injury really hurt the OL depth this year.

 

[dgreen]

I think Maurice Hurt's injury really hurt the OL depth this year.

They haven't needed OL depth yet this year. All 5 OL have started all 10 games. Have any of them missed any plays? I seem to remember Trent being briefly hurt and probably left for a play or two?

 

[Marvelous]

I think Maurice Hurt's injury really hurt the OL depth this year.

They haven't needed OL depth yet this year. All 5 OL have started all 10 games. Have any of them missed any plays? I seem to remember Trent being briefly hurt and probably left for a play or two?

They haven't yet, but the middle of the OL has been really bad. Maybe if Hurt was available, he would have gotten some playing time by now. Or maybe his is just a backup. Maybe we will see Gettis and Compton play some as they play out the string.

 

[dgreen]

I think Maurice Hurt's injury really hurt the OL depth this year.

They haven't needed OL depth yet this year. All 5 OL have started all 10 games. Have any of them missed any plays? I seem to remember Trent being briefly hurt and probably left for a play or two?

They haven't yet, but the middle of the OL has been really bad. Maybe if Hurt was available, he would have gotten some playing time by now. Or maybe his is just a backup. Maybe we will see Gettis and Compton play some as they play out the string.

Good point.

 

[Marvelous]

There's so much that you guys have posted that I agree with I can't possibly quote it all. I'll just quote this one, since it's really what we're talking about at this point -- who runs things.

Haslett and Kyle needs to go for sure, Dad will never drop his son, so he will go also. 2014 is his last year, and he basically will be a lame duck coach, No player is going to come here for that.

There's the excuse of the salary cap hit, but you have to remember that that hit occurred because the front office (Allen, Shanahan, Snyder) decided to use the uncapped year in a way other teams did not. The people responsible for that decision don't deserve the benefit of the "league was unfair to the Skins" excuse. They knew there was risk, they knew they were trying something different, it was hailed as a genius move, it failed, that's on them.

I wanted to make one comment on the salary cap penalty. The $36M comes directly from the cap hits the Redskins took for restructuring Albert Haynesworth's and DeAngelo Hall's contracts. The Redskins were required to take the cap hits at some point. They tried to restructure them so they all fell into the uncapped year. And the league did not allow it.

If they played it straight, they would have taken Haynesworth's cap hit in 2011 and 2012 when they traded him. They would have taken Hall's cap hit in 2011, 2012, 2013 and possibly 2014 since he was cut last offseason.

The Redskins really are that much worse off than if they did nothing. The did lose control of when the cap hit would be.

The bottom line: there is a big price to pay when a team give Albert Haynesworth $40M and he does nothing and they need to get rid of him after two year. They tried to get out of it, but the league would not allow it.

I have now read all of the comments on the salary cap it.

If you had told me in 2010 that they could dump the salaries and would only get penalized if:

1. The salary cap comes back in 2011

2. The NFL finds a way to levy a penalty without fear of a collusion lawsuit from the NFLPA

3. There is an owner who is stupid and spiteful enough to try to stick it to the Redskins

4. The NFLPA would be stupid enough to sign off on it without understanding what they are agreeing to

I would take this gamble every time. It is incredible the events that unfolded to get to the penalty, which looked unenforceable in 2010.

The Redskins had everything to gain and little to lose. The big difference is that by this year, 2013, they would be done with the Haynesworth cap hits.

 

[dgreen]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team". If the core guys stop playing for him, then I can see him being fired. But, anything short of that, I think he gets a chance to turn it all around next year. If he fails to produce a winner after a FA spending spree, then he's gone.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team". If the core guys stop playing for him, then I can see him being fired. But, anything short of that, I think he gets a chance to turn it all around next year. If he fails to produce a winner after a FA spending spree, then he's gone.

You may be right, but it would be a horrible idea. All that money needs to be available to a new regime, not tied up into Shanahan's guys.

 

[fatness]

I wanted to make one comment on the salary cap penalty. The $36M comes directly from the cap hits the Redskins took for restructuring Albert Haynesworth's and DeAngelo Hall's contracts. The Redskins were required to take the cap hits at some point. They tried to restructure them so they all fell into the uncapped year. And the league did not allow it.

If they played it straight, they would have taken Haynesworth's cap hit in 2011 and 2012 when they traded him. They would have taken Hall's cap hit in 2011, 2012, 2013 and possibly 2014 since he was cut last offseason.

The Redskins really are that much worse off than if they did nothing. The did lose control of when the cap hit would be.

The bottom line: there is a big price to pay when a team give Albert Haynesworth $40M and he does nothing and they need to get rid of him after two year. They tried to get out of it, but the league would not allow it.

Thank you for the details, I appreciate it. And you're right --- they did lose control of when the cap hits would take place when they gambled and lost on dumping all the hit into one season.

Going by your information, they didn't truly take a $36 million hit over the last 2 years. This was the hit they took:

2011: $18 million minus the Haynesworth cap hit minus the Hall cap hit

2012: $18 million minus the Haynesworth cap hit minus the Hall cap hit

If the league had done nothing this is what they would have faced in the way of cap hits:

2011: Haynesworth hit plus Hall hit

2012: Haynesworth hit plus Hall hit

2013: Hall hit

2014: Hall hit

 

[fatness]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team".

The collapse in an embarrassing fashion is well underway this season unfortunately. And we've seen them collapse for games at a time in other seasons under Shanahan.

 

[fatness]

If you had told me in 2010 that they could dump the salaries and would only get penalized if:

1. The salary cap comes back in 2011

2. The NFL finds a way to levy a penalty without fear of a collusion lawsuit from the NFLPA

3. There is an owner who is stupid and spiteful enough to try to stick it to the Redskins

4. The NFLPA would be stupid enough to sign off on it without understanding what they are agreeing to

I would take this gamble every time.

Then you wouldn't have been prudent. What was needed to make the gamble worth taking was

5. Knowing the Redskin owner would take the league to court if they penalized the Skins.

6. Knowing the Skins were on solid legal ground if they went to court.

Snyder knew then he'd never go to court over this, because he wants a Super Bowl in Washington. And if they did any legal research on whether they had solid grounds for challenging it it was useless (since Snyder wouldn't challenge the league) and possibly faulty.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Everyone is all over Griffin. He's doing a horrible job recently of being a leader on the team. If they aren't already, things are going to get really out of control.

Whoa... really? How out of control are we talking?

 

[TxBuckeye]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000285121/article/redskins-vikings-among-teams-that-should-be-thinking-of-2014

While no one ever wants to throw in the towel, at some point, it can be beneficial for teams that are out of contention to begin looking ahead.

As the playoffs begin to fade from sight, the challenges and hurdles that must be dealt with next year come into focus, prompting the more prudent decision makers to pivot their gaze from the short term to the long. In some cases, this might mean playing a previously untested youngster over a known quantity with a limited ceiling. In other cases, it might mean strategically resting an important piece with an eye toward future longevity.

Here are four teams that, for all intents and purposes, are out of it -- and some players they should turn to with 2014 in mind.
1) Washington Redskins

Robert Griffin III doesn't seem to be the same player he was when he dazzled as a rookie. He's not making the same sorts of big plays in, say, third-and-long situations that he did before injuring his knee in his debut campaign. Looking ahead to next season, the Redskins obviously could use some additional help, especially on defense. However, they're currently without a first-round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, as it was part of the package sent to the St. Louis Rams back in 2012 for the right to select RGIII. Given those two issues, the Redskins might be wise, once they're firmly out of playoff contention, to think about sitting RGIII for a couple of games and giving backup Kirk Cousins an extended look.

This is not likely to happen, thanks to the "never really out of it" illusion that can come with playing in the weak NFC East, as well as the acrimony that surrounded coach Mike Shanahan's decision to hold RGIII out of the preseason while he continued to recover from knee surgery. But if I were the Redskins, I would at least begin to think about making this move -- especially if the division slips out of reach a few games down the road and, say, RGIII suffers a few nicks or bruises that threaten to affect his health.

Presuming Griffin is the team's future at the position, it makes sense to ensure he'll be 100 percent next season. As for Cousins, he's not, strictly speaking, the kind of unknown quantity who usually gets late-season burn; the second-year pro garnered a fair amount of buzz after filling in for RGIII last year. However, giving Cousins yet another prominent showcase could stoke additional interest among potential trade partners, pushing up the price for acquiring him, and perhaps landing Washington some extra draft picks with which to fill some roster holes come May.

Again, there are several reasons Washington probably won't do this, not least among them the likelihood that coach Mike Shanahan will need to win a few more games to guarantee he'll keep his job. Ultimately, though, I wouldn't be too concerned about the kerfuffle spawned by the recent comments in which RGIII seemed to criticize the team's play-calling. I've known Shanahan a long time; he's dealt with a lot of talent over the years, and I think he usually has a pretty good relationship with his players.

The Redskins have some good, young pieces, including running back Alfred Morris, tight end Jordan Reed and, of course, RGIII. Protecting their signal-caller and potentially acquiring extra draft picks could boost their chances at making the playoffs in 2014.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

They can't start cousins for several reasons.

RGIII needs the snaps

RGIII's ego could never handle it nor should he.

Cousins value could be hurt.

If Cousins succeeds it will create a QB controversy.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

They can't start cousins for several reasons.

RGIII needs the snaps

RGIII's ego could never handle it nor should he.

Cousins value could be hurt.

If Cousins succeeds it will create a QB controversy.

This. RG3 needs more playing time to get used to the knee post surgery. you simply cant get that type of rehab on the sidelines. Plus, this is all a good learning experience for him.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team". If the core guys stop playing for him, then I can see him being fired. But, anything short of that, I think he gets a chance to turn it all around next year. If he fails to produce a winner after a FA spending spree, then he's gone.

An extension will make him become a Not so crazy spender. If he goes into his last year of the contract next year, he will go crazy to get talent and make him look better to get another extension. That is why FO/Snyder needs to decide to either fire him or give extension, just don't leave it as is.

 

[JuniorNB]

Skins guys, what is the buzz regarding Josh Reed's availability Monday night?

Also, if he doesn't play, is Logan Paulson worth a roster spot as a last minute fantasy replacement? Do you think he'd be worked into a receiving role at all if Reed is out?

 

[MattFancy]

Skins guys, what is the buzz regarding Josh Reed's availability Monday night?

Also, if he doesn't play, is Logan Paulson worth a roster spot as a last minute fantasy replacement? Do you think he'd be worked into a receiving role at all if Reed is out?

Well first, it's Jordan Reed. If I was to make a guess now, I'd say he probably doesn't play. I wouldn't waste a spot on Paulsen.

 

[fatness]

Skins guys, what is the buzz regarding Josh Reed's availability Monday night?

Also, if he doesn't play, is Logan Paulson worth a roster spot as a last minute fantasy replacement? Do you think he'd be worked into a receiving role at all if Reed is out?

Jordan Reed, dude. Show some respect for one of our few good players.

The concussion testing protocol takes time and the earliest we'd know if he can play is Friday. It may be later. As for Paulsen we all like him because he's usually in to block and is a big slow lumbering guy who sometimes catches the defense off guard catching a pass or two. Depending on him to block is fine. Depending on him to catch passes or score is highly risky.

 

[JuniorNB]

Skins guys, what is the buzz regarding Josh Reed's availability Monday night?

Also, if he doesn't play, is Logan Paulson worth a roster spot as a last minute fantasy replacement? Do you think he'd be worked into a receiving role at all if Reed is out?

Jordan Reed, dude. Show some respect for one of our few good players.

I must have had a flashback to 1999 and the Vikings.

No wait. That was Jake. I mean the early 2000 Bills. lol

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Skins guys, what is the buzz regarding Josh Reed's availability Monday night?

Also, if he doesn't play, is Logan Paulson worth a roster spot as a last minute fantasy replacement? Do you think he'd be worked into a receiving role at all if Reed is out?

Jordan Reed, dude. Show some respect for one of our few good players.

I must have had a flashback to 1999 and the Vikings.

No wait. That was Jake. I mean the early 2000 Bills. lol

Nice comeback!

 

[moviedude25]

First I've heard this.

Shanahan declined to respond directly to a question Monday about whether he thinks the Redskins’ results during the remainder of this season will

determine his future with the team or whether he instead has been given assurances by Snyder he will return next season.

“I don’t talk about those things during the season for obvious reasons,” Shanahan said.

It does not appear that such an assurance has been given. A person familiar with the Redskins’ planning said in recent days it was “too early” to know whether Shanahan’s job is safe beyond this season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahan-with-his-job-under-scrutiny-defends-his-tenure-says-cap-penalty-hurt/2013/11/18/234463ba-50a9-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_story.html

So basically that person said nothing? Too early to know? Well of course it is. I'm sure if the Skins were to lose the final 6 games, Shanny probably won't be around. If we win all 6, he'll be around. Other than that, who knows.

Not sure he should be back for a lame duck season. His record through 4 seasons doesn't warrant an extension imo. What would the expectations be if he were to come back for year 5? Playoffs or fired? Is that even enough? I see him leaving like Gibbs did after his 4th season and as a life long Redskins fan wished he had done better in his time here

 

[moviedude25]

Thoughts about Santana Moss' quote here?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1858271-robert-griffin-iiis-comments-spark-rebuttal-from-santana-moss

“At the end of the day, I was seen with the ball in my hand last, as a quarterback I’m saying,” Moss said Tuesday on The LaVar Arrington show with Chad Dukes, “and if it didn’t get done then I’m going to let you know it was me.”

Moss went on a long tangent about taking responsibility and called for every player on the team to take accountability for their failures.

"...as a leader, you understand that if you’re involved in the situation, whether you’re the receiver, the quarterback, the guys making the tackle, whoever, regardless of the outcome, good or bad, you have to at some point, stand up and say 'me' or 'I'."

Moss doesn't call out QB's and him saying this was right.

It is Griffin's job to throw that ball out of the back of the end zone in the last game. He didn't get it there and it ended the game. Would Peyton Manning have said

"We had a certain concept with running and nobody got open so I was backing up, and in the situation where you get a sack there, it ends the game,”

No he wouldn't. Leaders lead and in this league QB's get all the credit when the team wins and should take all of the blame if they lose. Griffin should have simply said "I didn't play well enough to win" and nothing along the lines implicating the receivers or the offensive line was a problem. To me it shows immaturity on Griffin's part to say anything like this.

 

[moviedude25]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team". If the core guys stop playing for him, then I can see him being fired. But, anything short of that, I think he gets a chance to turn it all around next year. If he fails to produce a winner after a FA spending spree, then he's gone.

That's a bad idea imo. If you like him spend the money to build a winning team and he should fail to do that, which based on his record the past four years is more likely then it is for him to actually build a winning team, then those players and contracts he has signed will be inherited by the next head coach.

Zone Blocking and Read Option offenses are not working this season by not only the Redskins but other teams as well. Every read option QB that did well with it last year is having much less success this season. NFL defenses have caught up with it. It may even be a one year FAD for all we know. If Shanahan still believes in those systems and there is no reason to think he doesn't, then he will sign the contracts and players he believes will execute those offenses but the next head coach may not believe in that system or want to use that offense which would negate any of the players that are brought in value and could keep coaches from wanting to coach here.

That money is a draw and to give it to the man who has taken this team

Year One - 6-10

Year Two - 5-11

Year Three - At one time was 3-6 and yes ended up 10-6 but 3-6 was not good

Year Four - 3-7 currently

With an expectation he is going to "build" a winning team in year 5 of a 5 year plan to me is asking too much and the cap money is reason to let him go. The next head coach is going to need money to build his team that he wants.

 

[moviedude25]

They can't start cousins for several reasons.

RGIII needs the snaps

RGIII's ego could never handle it nor should he.

Cousins value could be hurt.

If Cousins succeeds it will create a QB controversy.

I went into this season with very low expectations of the team. My best guess at the beginning of the year was an 8-8 team, more likely a 7-9 or 6-10 record. Why? Because only two QB's had ever missed the entire preseason like Griffin did this year - Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. I like Griffin but he is not on that level and those guys did that 10 years in the league. I thought that this season was going to be wasted the minute the team decided to go with Griffin under center. Your first point is valid Griffin does need snaps but this year has been completely lost because the team was scared to start Cousins and sit the guy they paid so much to get. I do believe that had Cousins started the year and gone into last off season as the starting QB of the Redskins this team in this division would be right in the thick of it and not already lost the season.

As for the point about needing reps, Griffin still is not planting his feet when he throws. He needs to get healthy. The only way the team can guarantee that he is healthy for next season would be to shut him down this year. The worst possible outcome this team could have now is that Griffin is hurt again. Reps with improper mechanics does not help anyone

Griffin's ego was out of control this past off season and I am not sure he has it in check at this time. Frankly I do not care about Griffin's ego. I am a fan of Griffin because he QB's the Redskins. I will not be a fan of Griffin if he QB'ed another team, and I will be a fan of the Redskins when Griffin is not on the team. His ego needs to be checked.

Cousins value could be hurt, or it could skyrocket. What is the best way the Redskins have to get that 1st round pick back this draft? Showcase Cousins now and show that he is a young up and coming QB in the league and trade him for one. The fact Cousins could look bad doesn't matter. Cousins cost the Redskins a 4th round draft pick, if he were hurt or his value was hurt we would be out a 4th round draft pick. On the other hand the way that other teams have turned 4th round draft picks into higher picks is to show they belonged starting the league.

Not playing Kirk is a mistake this coaching staff has made all season and I don't believe they will figure that out now but they should

 

[MattFancy]

I dunno where people are getting that we'd get a 1st for Cousins. If anything, teams will shy away from giving away top picks for a QB that's had a few good games. Flynn and Kolb were looked at the same way as Cousins and we all know how they've turned out. Cousins had a nice game against the Browns and a nice drive against the Ravens. The other times he's been in, he's been terrible. Sure it's because he's had to come in for relief, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Plus with all the possible QB prospects this draft, why would a team give up a 1st for Cousins when they can just draft a QB?

If we were able to get a 2nd for him, sure I'd think about it. But I don't think the team is in a hurry to move Cousins right now. He's a nice cheap insurance plan to have right now.

 

[moviedude25]

I dunno where people are getting that we'd get a 1st for Cousins. If anything, teams will shy away from giving away top picks for a QB that's had a few good games. Flynn and Kolb were looked at the same way as Cousins and we all know how they've turned out. Cousins had a nice game against the Browns and a nice drive against the Ravens. The other times he's been in, he's been terrible. Sure it's because he's had to come in for relief, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Plus with all the possible QB prospects this draft, why would a team give up a 1st for Cousins when they can just draft a QB?

If we were able to get a 2nd for him, sure I'd think about it. But I don't think the team is in a hurry to move Cousins right now. He's a nice cheap insurance plan to have right now.

Same thing could well be said to you saying that Kirk couldn't be moved for one. Cousins value would be dependent on how he did running the team. If we had showcased Kirk Cousins to start this season and he set the world on fire by the trade deadline we might have a 1st, 2nd, or extra 3rd round pick now. The team missed a clear opportunity to improve stock in an expendable player.

You mention the team not wanting to move him...If Kirk weren't any good why would the team feel that way about him being a "good" insurance policy? Backup QB's are a dime a dozen. Why would the team care about a mediocre players value? I don't get it.

 

[MattFancy]

I dunno where people are getting that we'd get a 1st for Cousins. If anything, teams will shy away from giving away top picks for a QB that's had a few good games. Flynn and Kolb were looked at the same way as Cousins and we all know how they've turned out. Cousins had a nice game against the Browns and a nice drive against the Ravens. The other times he's been in, he's been terrible. Sure it's because he's had to come in for relief, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Plus with all the possible QB prospects this draft, why would a team give up a 1st for Cousins when they can just draft a QB?

If we were able to get a 2nd for him, sure I'd think about it. But I don't think the team is in a hurry to move Cousins right now. He's a nice cheap insurance plan to have right now.

Same thing could well be said to you saying that Kirk couldn't be moved for one. Cousins value would be dependent on how he did running the team. If we had showcased Kirk Cousins to start this season and he set the world on fire by the trade deadline we might have a 1st, 2nd, or extra 3rd round pick now. The team missed a clear opportunity to improve stock in an expendable player.

You mention the team not wanting to move him...If Kirk weren't any good why would the team feel that way about him being a "good" insurance policy? Backup QB's are a dime a dozen. Why would the team care about a mediocre players value? I don't get it.

I just posted the last 2 "hot" backup QBs to get traded. Neither Kolb nor Flynn were moved for 1sts. And even if Cousins started the season and was lighting it up, I still don't think teams would give up a 1st for him. The teams that would need a QB know they're going to be bad enough to be able to draft one. Why would Jacksonville, Minnesota, Cleveland, etc. give up a 1st to get Cousins? I just don't buy it. And like I said, Cousins has played well in spots, but he is way overrated by Skins fans.

 

[fatness]

Cousins is very much worth keeping due to his talent and due to the injury possibility for Griffin. Look at league play, and how teams nosedive when they start putting in 2nd and 3rd string QB's. The Bears have maybe the only QB2 in the league I can think of who goes in without the team's level of play dropping game after game.

There is no team right now who will give a 1st or 2nd for Cousins. Maybe one would bit on giving a 3rd, maybe not. Can we get an equivalent backup QB in the 3rd round of this year's draft? 95% chance we can't. And even if we can, what did that do? It kept things where they are now, except with more turnover.

As for what Moss said he was right, Griffin acknowledged that, and I don't see it as a lingering issue. Griffin respects Moss.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

I mentioned it a few pages back, before it hit the media that it bothered me that RGIII never seems to take the onus for a bad play. Every QB I've ever watch is caught on camera at least once tapping his chest (telling his WR/TE/RB) that it was on him....a "My bad." I have yet to see RGIII do that once, which I found odd. In several other games, when he didn't play well...he always talked about everyone having to play better. When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake. I found this odd as coming out of college he was known for his character, so it just didn't seem to coincide. It appears that it has started to wear thin on some of those around him now and it is justifiable as all GREAT QBs take responsibility for their play.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

We are not getting a 1st rounder for Cousins, unless we slip some drugs into the water cooler of the other team's front office. I don't know if anyone has seen enough of him to warrant a 2nd and doubt we'd trade him for a 3rd.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

The more I think about it, the more I see Shanahan getting an extension and a chance to spend that salary cap money next year. I think the only thing that gets Shanahan fired is a total collapse in embarrassing fashion the rest of the season and he completely "loses the team". If the core guys stop playing for him, then I can see him being fired. But, anything short of that, I think he gets a chance to turn it all around next year. If he fails to produce a winner after a FA spending spree, then he's gone.

That's a bad idea imo. If you like him spend the money to build a winning team and he should fail to do that, which based on his record the past four years is more likely then it is for him to actually build a winning team, then those players and contracts he has signed will be inherited by the next head coach.

Zone Blocking and Read Option offenses are not working this season by not only the Redskins but other teams as well. Every read option QB that did well with it last year is having much less success this season. NFL defenses have caught up with it. It may even be a one year FAD for all we know. If Shanahan still believes in those systems and there is no reason to think he doesn't, then he will sign the contracts and players he believes will execute those offenses but the next head coach may not believe in that system or want to use that offense which would negate any of the players that are brought in value and could keep coaches from wanting to coach here.

That money is a draw and to give it to the man who has taken this team

Year One - 6-10

Year Two - 5-11

Year Three - At one time was 3-6 and yes ended up 10-6 but 3-6 was not good

Year Four - 3-7 currently

With an expectation he is going to "build" a winning team in year 5 of a 5 year plan to me is asking too much and the cap money is reason to let him go. The next head coach is going to need money to build his team that he wants.

When listed like that, one does have to wonder about what kind of real expectations Snyder might have for a 5th year. First 2 years is understandable, change culture and players to fit. This year is telling in that we have basically the same team as last year and are a shell of the team that performed last year (once it got on all wheels). Matter of fact, makes last year 3-6 start look more realistic of what this team really is than the 7-0 ending.

Again, love the stability that Shanny has brought the organization and more importantly that Shanny/Allen duo have allowed Snyder to take a more hands off approach. All that said, we need to have a moment of instability to get back to continue the stability with another coach/staff.

 

[MattFancy]

I mentioned it a few pages back, before it hit the media that it bothered me that RGIII never seems to take the onus for a bad play. Every QB I've ever watch is caught on camera at least once tapping his chest (telling his WR/TE/RB) that it was on him....a "My bad." I have yet to see RGIII do that once, which I found odd. In several other games, when he didn't play well...he always talked about everyone having to play better. When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake. I found this odd as coming out of college he was known for his character, so it just didn't seem to coincide. It appears that it has started to wear thin on some of those around him now and it is justifiable as all GREAT QBs take responsibility for their play.

Was listening to the Sports Junkies this morning. They played a clip of his presser after the GB game. I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like, "When the team gets out to a slow start, that's my fault. When we start clicking, that's because of my teammates. You can say when we're not performing, you can put that on my shoulders." So he has certainly shouldered some of the blame. Could he do a better job of taking the blame? Sure he can. But it's not like he has never accepted responsibilty.

Cooley had a great point yesterday on his show, that as players, you're taught by the PR staff to say things like "we", "us", and "the team". So you can see why he doesn't always say "me" or "I". Another good point I heard, when a team is winning, you should hear lots of "we's" and "us's". But when the team is losing, it should be "I's" and "me's". RG3 is smart enough to get that figured out. I don't think his leadership is a problem at all.

 

[fatness]

When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake.

He has done it after several games this year. Kevin Sheehan mentioned it this morning.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

I mentioned it a few pages back, before it hit the media that it bothered me that RGIII never seems to take the onus for a bad play. Every QB I've ever watch is caught on camera at least once tapping his chest (telling his WR/TE/RB) that it was on him....a "My bad." I have yet to see RGIII do that once, which I found odd. In several other games, when he didn't play well...he always talked about everyone having to play better. When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake. I found this odd as coming out of college he was known for his character, so it just didn't seem to coincide. It appears that it has started to wear thin on some of those around him now and it is justifiable as all GREAT QBs take responsibility for their play.

Was listening to the Sports Junkies this morning. They played a clip of his presser after the GB game. I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like, "When the team gets out to a slow start, that's my fault. When we start clicking, that's because of my teammates. You can say when we're not performing, you can put that on my shoulders." So he has certainly shouldered some of the blame. Could he do a better job of taking the blame? Sure he can. But it's not like he has never accepted responsibilty.

Cooley had a great point yesterday on his show, that as players, you're taught by the PR staff to say things like "we", "us", and "the team". So you can see why he doesn't always say "me" or "I". Another good point I heard, when a team is winning, you should hear lots of "we's" and "us's". But when the team is losing, it should be "I's" and "me's". RG3 is smart enough to get that figured out. I don't think his leadership is a problem at all.

Thanks for sharing, this is good to hear.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake.

He has done it after several games this year. Kevin Sheehan mentioned it this morning.

Well I'll side with that then, but I haven't seen or heard much myself.

 

[MattFancy]

When he makes a bonehead play, I have yet to hear him say I made the mistake.

He has done it after several games this year. Kevin Sheehan mentioned it this morning.

Well I'll side with that then, but I haven't seen or heard much myself.

It's because unless you listen to the entire presser, you'll just hear the bits and pieces the media wants you to hear. Right now, they're all pressed on this "RG3 isn't a leader" crap, so that's all you're going to hear. He is definitely a leader on this team. Your teammates don't vote for you as a Captain your rookie year unless they believe in you. And they don't vote for you a 2nd time if they believe you can't lead them. This whole story is so blown out of proportion it's not even funny.

 

[Ted Mullins]

FWIW, I also heard the Sports Junkies claim the other day that they were told Shanahan and Bruce Allen did not want to start RG3 for the first four weeks and Snyder forced the issue. I know they have ties to Danny Smith (although he's gone now) and Cooley. I have assumed Snyder has stepped back some, so that'd be very interesting if true.

 

[MattFancy]

FWIW, I also heard the Sports Junkies claim the other day that they were told Shanahan and Bruce Allen did not want to start RG3 for the first four weeks and Snyder forced the issue. I know they have ties to Danny Smith (although he's gone now) and Cooley. I have assumed Snyder has stepped back some, so that'd be very interesting if true.

I heard that on there too. I do remember at the beginning of the year, a Philly beat writer saying the same thing. Not sure how true it is, but who knows with this team. When things aren't going well, all kinds of crazy stuff will come out. If we were not 1-3 after the first 4 games, I think we wouldn't have heard anything about it. Plus when you think about it, it wasn't all on RG3 for those games. The defense didn't really start to get smidge better until the Detroit game and RG3 looked good that game. If Aldrick Robinson doesn't drop the deep pass in the endzone, we may have won that game.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Yeah, I think the other person claiming that was Howard Eskin - I remember they actually talked to him on the show one day and everyone was skeptical. Makes sense to doubt it, considering the way so much of the blame for RG3 playing hurt was placed on Shanny - it was crazy to think that he'd be the one pushing for him to sit. Personally, I tend to believe the Junkies about it actually - I don't see a reason for them to bring it up if they aren't pretty confident about it.

A few of the games so far have just got out of hand early and that really seemed to throw them off - even though RG3 got a lot of the glory, their offense really seemed based around forcing defenses to respect the run, playaction, etc. Also, the turnovers have been brutal - huge swing from last year. It really just seems like there were open guys all the time last year and that's not the case anymore.

I think the threat of RG3 running helped a lot last year and having less of that has hurt the offense, but that might not have been a viable long term solution anyways. I personally felt that when RG3's dad was in the media talking about how he needed to run less and pass more, that was a sign that RG3 felt that way himself - his media presence seems way too calculated for me to believe that his dad would be out saying that if he disagreed. Could have been because of the injury, or maybe he resented being known for that and felt he didn't get enough credit as a passer.

 

[moviedude25]

I dunno where people are getting that we'd get a 1st for Cousins. If anything, teams will shy away from giving away top picks for a QB that's had a few good games. Flynn and Kolb were looked at the same way as Cousins and we all know how they've turned out. Cousins had a nice game against the Browns and a nice drive against the Ravens. The other times he's been in, he's been terrible. Sure it's because he's had to come in for relief, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Plus with all the possible QB prospects this draft, why would a team give up a 1st for Cousins when they can just draft a QB?

If we were able to get a 2nd for him, sure I'd think about it. But I don't think the team is in a hurry to move Cousins right now. He's a nice cheap insurance plan to have right now.

Same thing could well be said to you saying that Kirk couldn't be moved for one. Cousins value would be dependent on how he did running the team. If we had showcased Kirk Cousins to start this season and he set the world on fire by the trade deadline we might have a 1st, 2nd, or extra 3rd round pick now. The team missed a clear opportunity to improve stock in an expendable player.

You mention the team not wanting to move him...If Kirk weren't any good why would the team feel that way about him being a "good" insurance policy? Backup QB's are a dime a dozen. Why would the team care about a mediocre players value? I don't get it.

I just posted the last 2 "hot" backup QBs to get traded. Neither Kolb nor Flynn were moved for 1sts. And even if Cousins started the season and was lighting it up, I still don't think teams would give up a 1st for him. The teams that would need a QB know they're going to be bad enough to be able to draft one. Why would Jacksonville, Minnesota, Cleveland, etc. give up a 1st to get Cousins? I just don't buy it. And like I said, Cousins has played well in spots, but he is way overrated by Skins fans.

You seem to not get that Cousins is a luxury for this team. He is the "insurance" of young QB who could be a an NFL starter who is only 25 years old. When used last season during our 6 game win streak he won 2 of those games. Griffin fans don't seem to ever realize that the run the team went on last year was also due to Kirk Cousins. Also people seem to have forgotten that Redskins have 3 QB's on the roster today which includes Rex Grossman. I always thought the reason that they kept 3 QB's on the roster this year was in anticipation of moving Kirk Cousins. Why else would they have Rex Grossman on the roster? I believe Kirk Cousins is on the team now because Robert Griffin's future on the team is more cloudy today then ever.

As for his value increasing many QB's value increases one year to the next. Just look at Nick Foles last year. Foles in 2012 was terrible. This year he is awesome. One year can make a huge difference. I will not argue with you that today not one team would give us a 1st round pick for Kirk Cousins but that is because we haven't showcased him this year. If we had it's unknown

1. How he would have done

2. What his trade value might have been

If he was winning, putting up numbers, and playing the part of a real NFL QB then teams would want him. Why wouldn't they?

I think the reason the team still has Kirk Cousins is partly due to how the NFL has shut down Read Option this year. We all have seen how Robert has looked without Read Option and it's not good. If he cannot get back to being a Franchise QB who wins more then he loses then we as a team will have no choice but to move on from Robert. If we were to move on and use a more typical QB then we wouldn't want Grossman to be that guy, we would want Kirk Cousins to be that guy. I think that is why he is so valuable on the Redskins and was not moved

 

[moviedude25]

FWIW, I also heard the Sports Junkies claim the other day that they were told Shanahan and Bruce Allen did not want to start RG3 for the first four weeks and Snyder forced the issue. I know they have ties to Danny Smith (although he's gone now) and Cooley. I have assumed Snyder has stepped back some, so that'd be very interesting if true.

If this is true then this is detrimental to the organization and the Dan once again needs to back off. I can't see this holding any water. I don't see Shanahan taking orders on who is starting by Snyder. If he has been doing that then I am disappointed in Shanahan.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yeah, I think the other person claiming that was Howard Eskin - I remember they actually talked to him on the show one day and everyone was skeptical. Makes sense to doubt it, considering the way so much of the blame for RG3 playing hurt was placed on Shanny - it was crazy to think that he'd be the one pushing for him to sit. Personally, I tend to believe the Junkies about it actually - I don't see a reason for them to bring it up if they aren't pretty confident about it.

A few of the games so far have just got out of hand early and that really seemed to throw them off - even though RG3 got a lot of the glory, their offense really seemed based around forcing defenses to respect the run, playaction, etc. Also, the turnovers have been brutal - huge swing from last year. It really just seems like there were open guys all the time last year and that's not the case anymore.

I think the threat of RG3 running helped a lot last year and having less of that has hurt the offense, but that might not have been a viable long term solution anyways. I personally felt that when RG3's dad was in the media talking about how he needed to run less and pass more, that was a sign that RG3 felt that way himself - his media presence seems way too calculated for me to believe that his dad would be out saying that if he disagreed. Could have been because of the injury, or maybe he resented being known for that and felt he didn't get enough credit as a passer.

It also makes sense to doubt it because Howard Eskin is terrible, he throws all kinds of #### to the wall just to get the attention of Philly sports fans (remember the Eagles were playing the Skins Week 1). Just last week he claimed a Jose Batista for Dom Brown trade was in the works.