***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2012 Off Season Thread (1 Viewer)

[RGIII HTTR]

In about 18 days...gentlemen! HTTR

Great avatar.

Thank you! It does look good with the B & G, right? HTTR!!!

 

[Marvelous]

McNabb just can't drop it. More from PFT:

McNabb doubts it, but many see Griffin as perfect fit for ShanahanPosted by Michael David Smith on April 10, 2012, 9:38 AM EDT Former Redskins quarterback Donovan McNabb believes that Robert Griffin III, who is expected to go to Washington as the second pick in the NFL draft, is a bad fit for the offense run by head coach Mike Shanahan and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan. Mike Shanahan said he’d take the high road and not respond, but plenty of people have come forward to say Griffin should fit just fine in the Redskins’ offense. The Washington Times quotes some people who know the Shanahans’ offense and think Griffin is a good fit in it, and others who think Griffin is a good fit in any offense. Among those in the former group is Gary Kubiak, who was Mike Shanahan’s offensive coordinator in Denver and then Kyle Shanahan’s boss in Houston, and he sees a mobile and accurate quarterback like Griffin as exactly what the Shanahans want. “Mike likes to run the ball . . . and likes to move his quarterback,” Kubiak said. “I don’t know that I’ve seen one move like this guy in a while. He’s very smart. This guy is going to fit perfect with what they want to do.” Former NFL quarterback and current ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski said Griffin plays a lot like the quarterbacks who have had the most success in the Shanahan offense. “You look at the Redskins and then you look at the lineage of Mike Shanahan — where has his success been? John Elway, Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler — movement guys, run-the-ball, stretch, play-action,” Jaworski said. “Big, strong-armed guys that get the ball down the field. He sees the quarterback to be prototypical like an RG3.” Philip Montgomery, Griffin’s offensive coordinator at Baylor, falls into the camp that says Griffin is good enough that just about any offense should work with him running it. “We weren’t very good when we first got here, so he was able to extend plays and make things happen, make a lot of plays with his feet,” Montgomery said. “As we grew, so did he. His maturation process as a quarterback has really developed in the sense that now he’s manipulating the pocket. Now he’s doing things down the field. When you really look at it, he made umpteen zillion more plays with his arm this year than he did with his feet.” If McNabb is right, the Shanahans will hold Griffin back. If Montgomery is right, no coach is bad enough to hold Griffin back. If Kubiak and Jaworski are right, the Shanahans will turn Griffin into a superstar.

I'd really like to hear specifically why McNabb thinks it is a bad match. He has mentioned that Shanahan will not taylor the offense to Griffin's strengths. So what specific weaknesses will of Griffin will Shanahan not try to minimize?From what I have heard, Griffin talented and dynamic enough that he would probably prosper in any offense. From from what I can see, he could be especially great in the Shanahan offense.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Resigned Golston to a 1 year deal and signed OT James Lee to a 1 year deal. Lee started 10 games for the Bucs in 2010 when Raheem Morris was HC.

 

[Sebowski]

McNabb just can't drop it. More from PFT:

McNabb doubts it, but many see Griffin as perfect fit for Shanahan

McNabb hasn't said anything new. PFT is still using what he said before and new quotes from Kubiak to put this poll together.

 

[Buck Stop]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

 

[VA703]

mcnabb sucks. end of discussion. why listen to a grumpy washed up has been

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

 

[VA703]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

 

[VA703]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

 

[Dexter Manley]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

Skins offered the minimum amount necessary to acquire the second pick in the draft, as the Browns offered 3 1st rounders and the Skins offered 3 1st rounders + a 2nd round pick. Had they offered anything less, St. Louis would have made the deal with Cleveland instead. What they did is actually the complete opposite of overpaying...

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Same line of thinking with the original "remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3? "

 

[VA703]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Same line of thinking with the original "remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3? "

fair enough

 

[RGIII HTTR]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Judging on or if a superbowl is won is not the measure for price. Just like ebay, price is determined if there are two or more willing people that want that specific good. Considering the Browns basically offered the same or close to package of picks, the price was HIGH, but FAIR for what the market offered at that time. It's not like the Redskins said I'll double whatever the Browns are offering, they offered similar if not slightly higher of a package. It's clear the Redskins believe in RG3 and/or Luck to get into that high of bidding! Here's hoping the Colts stick to their plans...

 

[MikeApf]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Judging on or if a superbowl is won is not the measure for price. Just like ebay, price is determined if there are two or more willing people that want that specific good. Considering the Browns basically offered the same or close to package of picks, the price was HIGH, but FAIR for what the market offered at that time. It's not like the Redskins said I'll double whatever the Browns are offering, they offered similar if not slightly higher of a package. It's clear the Redskins believe in RG3 and/or Luck to get into that high of bidding! Here's hoping the Colts stick to their plans...

This is well said. When the market dictates the price, it is "fair." You may not like it, but you also can't say it's "too high." The other way of looking at the situation, from an economic point of view, is through the concept of "opportunity costs." When people make a decision in an economic context, there are always a choice of one or more things. So, for instance, if I choose to go out and buy $400 worth of new clothes, I cannot also spend that money on, say, a newly discounted iPad 2. The "opportunity costs" of my purchasing the close was the iPad.In this respect, you can also abstract to see that there are opportunity costs for NOT making a purchase. It is worth asking, what were the opportunity costs for the Redskins not traded for the rights to pick either Robert Griffin III or Andrew Luck. If they had not made that trade, they would likely be looking at one of the following options: 1. Tannehill2. Flynn3. Orton4. Grossman5. Rolling the dice next year and probably not doing poorly enough to get Barkley (so don't say they would "probably" get Barkley next year...the OVERWHELMING probability is that they would NOT.On the other side, they would have additional picks in future years, which they could use to get another QB, most likely not as highly regarded as Griffin.If the Redskins calculate that Griffin is a rare talent capable of taking you to the SB (let's say he has a 60% chance of doing it over the span of his career) and the next best option, say Tannehill, only gives you a 15% chance. And let's say further that they reason that the entire point of playing NFL football is to win a SB, NOT to stockpile $$ or picks, then in fact it was a totally rational decision to take the chance to get Griffin.Lost in all of the general distrust and hatred for the Redskins front office is the fact that in many respects this is one of the most rational moves they could make. In short, they might reason that the "opportunity costs" for passing on Griffin was failure to have a reasonable chance to win a Super Bowl, and as the value of a Super Bowl is greater than the value of several future # 1 picks, in this respect it is rational decision.

 

[fatness]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

 

[Warrior]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

Luckily, they aren't.

 

[nittanylion]

DE Kedric Golston re-upps, fine with that.

CB Leigh Torrance in the fold, and reportedly FS Madieu Williams as well. Along with Cedric Griffin and Brandon Merriwether, there's some nice potential here for upgrade/upside. Williams is an immediate upgrade over Atogwe, Doughty and Gomes. Griffen and Torrance give us a much better rotation at CB, Griffin possibly at FS. Merriwether at SS...Torrance never should have been let go. Add Fletcher into the mix of the front 7, and several capable bodies in the secondary with veteran savvy, and they could really put the primary focus of this Draft after RG/Luck on the O-Line.

Hold onto your hats, fellas, because I'm rarely optimistic, but if these DB's play up to their potential,IMO our 'skins are 1 great and 1 solid O-Lineman away from being able to go into the season with Hightower/Helu/Royster/D.Young and Garcon/S.Moss/Gaffney/Morgan/Hankerson and Cooley/Davis as good enough players at the skill positions to give 'em a fighting chance at a solid 8-8.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but coming from me, that's pretty good.

 

[crispus attucks]

DE Kedric Golston re-upps, fine with that.CB Leigh Torrance in the fold, and reportedly FS Madieu Williams as well. Along with Cedric Griffin and Brandon Merriwether, there's some nice potential here for upgrade/upside. Williams is an immediate upgrade over Atogwe, Doughty and Gomes. Griffen and Torrance give us a much better rotation at CB, Griffin possibly at FS. Merriwether at SS...Torrance never should have been let go. Add Fletcher into the mix of the front 7, and several capable bodies in the secondary with veteran savvy, and they could really put the primary focus of this Draft after RG/Luck on the O-Line.Hold onto your hats, fellas, because I'm rarely optimistic, but if these DB's play up to their potential,IMO our 'skins are 1 great and 1 solid O-Lineman away from being able to go into the season with Hightower/Helu/Royster/D.Young and Garcon/S.Moss/Gaffney/Morgan/Hankerson and Cooley/Davis as good enough players at the skill positions to give 'em a fighting chance at a solid 8-8.Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but coming from me, that's pretty good.

NL, nice to see you back. Today's acquisitions at DB give me hope that we can cover next year. I still think they need another cover guy, but the safety position should be covered with BM, CG and Gomes, who I really like. I'm hopeful they'll bring back Lendy Holmes

 

[Assani Fisher]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Judging on or if a superbowl is won is not the measure for price. Just like ebay, price is determined if there are two or more willing people that want that specific good. Considering the Browns basically offered the same or close to package of picks, the price was HIGH, but FAIR for what the market offered at that time. It's not like the Redskins said I'll double whatever the Browns are offering, they offered similar if not slightly higher of a package. It's clear the Redskins believe in RG3 and/or Luck to get into that high of bidding! Here's hoping the Colts stick to their plans...

This is well said. When the market dictates the price, it is "fair." You may not like it, but you also can't say it's "too high."

This type of logic seems to imply that its possible for one team to mis-evaluate a prospect and offer too much for him but impossible for two teams to do so.With that said, I agree that it was a fair price for RGIII. I think most of the initial backlash is because fans were behind GMs in figuring out just how elite of a draft prospect RGIII is. We thought it was:1. LuckBIG Gap2.RGIII3. KalilWhen really its:1. Luck2. RGIIIBIG Gap3. Kalil

 

[fatness]

I think most of the initial backlash is because fans were behind GMs in figuring out just how elite of a draft prospect RGIII is. We thought it was:1. LuckBIG Gap2.RGIII3. KalilWhen really its:1. Luck2. RGIIIBIG Gap3. Kalil

I'd like to hear more about this Big Gap guy before I'm on board with Griffin.

 

[VA703]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

if you had any. you just lost all credibility

 

[MikeApf]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Judging on or if a superbowl is won is not the measure for price. Just like ebay, price is determined if there are two or more willing people that want that specific good. Considering the Browns basically offered the same or close to package of picks, the price was HIGH, but FAIR for what the market offered at that time. It's not like the Redskins said I'll double whatever the Browns are offering, they offered similar if not slightly higher of a package. It's clear the Redskins believe in RG3 and/or Luck to get into that high of bidding! Here's hoping the Colts stick to their plans...

This is well said. When the market dictates the price, it is "fair." You may not like it, but you also can't say it's "too high."

This type of logic seems to imply that its possible for one team to mis-evaluate a prospect and offer too much for him but impossible for two teams to do so.With that said, I agree that it was a fair price for RGIII. I think most of the initial backlash is because fans were behind GMs in figuring out just how elite of a draft prospect RGIII is. We thought it was:1. LuckBIG Gap2.RGIII3. KalilWhen really its:1. Luck2. RGIIIBIG Gap3. Kalil

It's kind of an academic discussion, but "value" in a free market economy is largely based on perception. By definition, the value of the good you are buying derives value from your perceived value of it, not from some "objective source." This is like the diamond-water situation in economics. We will pay a lot more for a diamond than a bottle of water, because water is more plentiful and diamonds have a high perceived value. But, unless you are working for a drilling company and need diamonds for commercial drilling, a diamond really has very little real "utility" to you, vs. the water, that you need to live. Yet, we don't tell people they overpay each and every time they buy a diamond...we accept the fact that they are deriving some value from it, and this value is largely based upon their personal preference. More directly to your question, some would say that this is not just a matter of one person or two people "overvaluing" diamonds -- but an entire culture! From an economic sense, then it is not strange at all to imply that if multiple people come together to determine a free market price, then that price is not considered overpayment.The argument can be extended by saying that if water became very, very scarce and folks were dropping dead, then people would all of a sudden sell anything -- including their diamonds -- for a bottle of water. The percieved value of the water, driven by supply and demand, would have risen.TO me, this is why it's actually MORE odd when someone says, "They overpayed for X, Y, and Z." WHat you really mean to say is that YOU don't value that player as high. The person who is claiming that they overpayed really does not have any "God Position" that allows them to determine whether the team has overpayed...it's just talk.

 

[VA703]

Passing Inside the pocket

last season

-------------- Luck ----- -- RG3

Comp pct 71.7 ----- 75.7

Yds per att 8.8 ---- 11.2

TD-int 28-8 ---- 31-3

30-yd comp 15 ---- 31

 

[Marvelous]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

and if he comes in and wins us the superbowl is it still overpaying?too soon to judge

Judging on or if a superbowl is won is not the measure for price. Just like ebay, price is determined if there are two or more willing people that want that specific good. Considering the Browns basically offered the same or close to package of picks, the price was HIGH, but FAIR for what the market offered at that time. It's not like the Redskins said I'll double whatever the Browns are offering, they offered similar if not slightly higher of a package. It's clear the Redskins believe in RG3 and/or Luck to get into that high of bidding! Here's hoping the Colts stick to their plans...

This is well said. When the market dictates the price, it is "fair." You may not like it, but you also can't say it's "too high."

This type of logic seems to imply that its possible for one team to mis-evaluate a prospect and offer too much for him but impossible for two teams to do so.With that said, I agree that it was a fair price for RGIII. I think most of the initial backlash is because fans were behind GMs in figuring out just how elite of a draft prospect RGIII is. We thought it was:1. LuckBIG Gap2.RGIII3. KalilWhen really its:1. Luck2. RGIIIBIG Gap3. Kalil

It's kind of an academic discussion, but "value" in a free market economy is largely based on perception. By definition, the value of the good you are buying derives value from your perceived value of it, not from some "objective source." This is like the diamond-water situation in economics. We will pay a lot more for a diamond than a bottle of water, because water is more plentiful and diamonds have a high perceived value. But, unless you are working for a drilling company and need diamonds for commercial drilling, a diamond really has very little real "utility" to you, vs. the water, that you need to live. Yet, we don't tell people they overpay each and every time they buy a diamond...we accept the fact that they are deriving some value from it, and this value is largely based upon their personal preference. More directly to your question, some would say that this is not just a matter of one person or two people "overvaluing" diamonds -- but an entire culture! From an economic sense, then it is not strange at all to imply that if multiple people come together to determine a free market price, then that price is not considered overpayment.The argument can be extended by saying that if water became very, very scarce and folks were dropping dead, then people would all of a sudden sell anything -- including their diamonds -- for a bottle of water. The percieved value of the water, driven by supply and demand, would have risen.TO me, this is why it's actually MORE odd when someone says, "They overpayed for X, Y, and Z." WHat you really mean to say is that YOU don't value that player as high. The person who is claiming that they overpayed really does not have any "God Position" that allows them to determine whether the team has overpayed...it's just talk.

I had said previously that the Redskins needed to get their QB this offseason. They rebuilding program really cannot move forward without that piece of the puzzle in place. I also said if the Redskins thought RGIII was the answer, they HAD to go get him.It's really not a great position to be dealing from. They can't wait and hope a QB falls to them in the draft or one develops from an obscure source. Without this RGIII trade, the Redskins were likely taking Tannehill at #6 or trading up or down to the mid/lower 1st round to draft Brandon Weedon. They just could not come out of this offseason without a plan at QB.Because of the trade, they have the QB they want. And the program moves forward. On the flip side, the Miami Dolphins have been searcing for their QB for 12 years and counting. And they have spent 5 2nd round draft picks trying to find a value QB. The price for not having a QB can be quite steep.

 

[Dexter Manley]

HFS!!1!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/mike-shanahan-and-dan-snyder-are-the-same-height/2012/04/10/gIQA2aBL8S_blog.html

 

[VA703]

HFS!!1! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/mike-shanahan-and-dan-snyder-are-the-same-height/2012/04/10/gIQA2aBL8S_blog.html

got those heel inserts

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

if you had any. you just lost all credibility

They overpaid on Pierre Garcon point blank. If you don't see that, then your glasses are too thick.

 

[MikeApf]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

if you had any. you just lost all credibility

They overpaid on Pierre Garcon point blank. If you don't see that, then your glasses are too thick.

LOL. All the haters come out when the Redskins do something right. Take off those Hater Goggles and try on our Burgandy and Gold tinted Redskins Goggles.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

They overpaid on Pierre Garcon point blank. If you don't see that, then your glasses are too thick.

LOL. All the haters come out when the Redskins do something right. Take off those Hater Goggles and try on our Burgandy and Gold tinted Redskins Goggles.

Just because I don't agree with the Redskins trade for RGIII and overpaying Garcon doesn't make me a hater. This is the same line of thinking that HS girls say when a guy insults them...oh he probably just wants you

 

[Dexter Manley]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

if you had any. you just lost all credibility

They overpaid on Pierre Garcon point blank. If you don't see that, then your glasses are too thick.

I initially thought this too, but then Garcon hinted that he was offered similar/slightly more $$$ to sign with another team(s) than the Redskins, hence they didn't overpay.If the Colts were his second biggest offer, however, then yes, the Redskins slightly overpaid.

 

[MikeApf]

They overpaid on Pierre Garcon point blank. If you don't see that, then your glasses are too thick.

LOL. All the haters come out when the Redskins do something right. Take off those Hater Goggles and try on our Burgandy and Gold tinted Redskins Goggles.

Just because I don't agree with the Redskins trade for RGIII and overpaying Garcon doesn't make me a hater. This is the same line of thinking that HS girls say when a guy insults them...oh he probably just wants you

Dude, I'm just messing with you, because -- let's face it -- you are kind of playing the role of the guy coming in here and peeing on everyone's parade. Redskins fans are excited about Griffin, so you have to come in and dampen everyone's high emotions by pretending to be the one "objective" one here -- and honestly implying that the Redskins made a mistake by trading for Griffin. Really? I guess, if you are going to play that role, don't get upset if folks argue with you. Are you expecting everyone to just give up hope and say their favorite team sucks now and will suck forever? Seriously?That said, I think it was pretty clear from my post that I was just kind of kidding with you. I don't know you so how can I really call you a hater. But tthat said, "chill out hater." ;-)

 

[fatness]

HFS!!1! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/mike-shanahan-and-dan-snyder-are-the-same-height/2012/04/10/gIQA2aBL8S_blog.html

“He didn’t seem to be 5’2” or 4’9”

 

[fatness]

remember when people thought the Skins gave too much to get RG3?

I still do and it's worse now considering the Salary Cap penalty.

skins need a franchise qb and made a move at the best time

That doesn't mean they didn't overpay for RGIII.

I remember you. You're the guy who said the Redskins should be rebuilding "the right way" like the Colts are ---- cutting players and having a lot of empty roster spots.

Yes I did say that. They shouldn't be overpaying on average players.

You said the Colts were rebuilding the right way. All the Colts had done up to that point was cut veterans, from an already-depleted rosters. There wasn't any Colt rebuilding going on at the time. Your contention that the Colts weren't overpaying was technically true at the time --- they weren't agreeing to pay anyone anything, either high or low. I thought that was a pretty dumb assertion on your part. Not that you're dumb, but it was a dumb thing to assert. edit: link

In 4-5 years we'll know if the Redskins overpaid, underpaid, or hit he price for Griffin right about on the money.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.

That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

McNabb just can't drop it. More from PFT:

McNabb doubts it, but many see Griffin as perfect fit for ShanahanPosted by Michael David Smith on April 10, 2012, 9:38 AM EDT Former Redskins quarterback Donovan McNabb believes that Robert Griffin III, who is expected to go to Washington as the second pick in the NFL draft, is a bad fit for the offense run by head coach Mike Shanahan and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan. Mike Shanahan said he’d take the high road and not respond, but plenty of people have come forward to say Griffin should fit just fine in the Redskins’ offense. The Washington Times quotes some people who know the Shanahans’ offense and think Griffin is a good fit in it, and others who think Griffin is a good fit in any offense. Among those in the former group is Gary Kubiak, who was Mike Shanahan’s offensive coordinator in Denver and then Kyle Shanahan’s boss in Houston, and he sees a mobile and accurate quarterback like Griffin as exactly what the Shanahans want. “Mike likes to run the ball . . . and likes to move his quarterback,” Kubiak said. “I don’t know that I’ve seen one move like this guy in a while. He’s very smart. This guy is going to fit perfect with what they want to do.” Former NFL quarterback and current ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski said Griffin plays a lot like the quarterbacks who have had the most success in the Shanahan offense. “You look at the Redskins and then you look at the lineage of Mike Shanahan — where has his success been? John Elway, Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler — movement guys, run-the-ball, stretch, play-action,” Jaworski said. “Big, strong-armed guys that get the ball down the field. He sees the quarterback to be prototypical like an RG3.” Philip Montgomery, Griffin’s offensive coordinator at Baylor, falls into the camp that says Griffin is good enough that just about any offense should work with him running it. “We weren’t very good when we first got here, so he was able to extend plays and make things happen, make a lot of plays with his feet,” Montgomery said. “As we grew, so did he. His maturation process as a quarterback has really developed in the sense that now he’s manipulating the pocket. Now he’s doing things down the field. When you really look at it, he made umpteen zillion more plays with his arm this year than he did with his feet.” If McNabb is right, the Shanahans will hold Griffin back. If Montgomery is right, no coach is bad enough to hold Griffin back. If Kubiak and Jaworski are right, the Shanahans will turn Griffin into a superstar.

I'd really like to hear specifically why McNabb thinks it is a bad match. He has mentioned that Shanahan will not taylor the offense to Griffin's strengths. So what specific weaknesses will of Griffin will Shanahan not try to minimize?From what I have heard, Griffin talented and dynamic enough that he would probably prosper in any offense. From from what I can see, he could be especially great in the Shanahan offense.

McNabb is just bitter. Pay no attention to him.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Skins signed S Madieu Williams and brought back CB Leigh Torrence (who they should have never let go).

Also, Jarvis Jenkins has been given 100% clearance to resume football activities.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/jarvis-jenkins-cleared-to-play-football/2012/04/11/gIQAEklvAT_blog.html

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

 

[VA703]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

i wont miss landry hes too busy hitting the gym

 

[Eire32]

The Washington Redskins should change their demeaning racist 'Redskins' team name because it is a disparaging ethnic slur to Native American Indians. It is an insult.

Once I moved about like the wind. Now I surrender to you and that is all - Geronimo (Apache medicine man and warrior)

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

i wont miss landry hes too busy hitting the gym

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

 

[Sylira21]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

i wont miss landry hes too busy hitting the gym

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

He looked great the first half of 2010, before the Achilles injury. Last year...not so much. Not nearly as explosive to the ball or the carrier.

 

[VA703]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

i wont miss landry hes too busy hitting the gym

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

i will miss him waving his finger when the running back he tackles makes a 15 yard run on us

 

[Sidewinder16]

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

If you're talking about 2010, then you are correct.Landry has played in 8 games since week 10 of 2010. Along with the lingering Achilles trouble (the injury sustained week 10 of '10) he missed time last season with hamstring and groin injuries. You had said "Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective". Landry was never really one of the leaders on the defense. At one point he certainly was one of the most talented defenders, but given the large question marks on his future health and whether he can even keep himself on the field (the deal he signed with the Jets was reported to be very incentive-laden with bonuses for each week he's on the active roster), it's very debatable that he even has the talent anymore.

 

[Sebowski]

@Benson - Redskins nation have been in a serious glut for a decade. You have to realize that at this point, we are all just trying to find the light in anything for our team. Paying too much for players or draft picks is a perspective that some can take, while others view it as well worth the price. Just as in FF, we'd all love to pay bare minimum and get a stud, but reality is that is just not going to happen. Even Redskins fans would have preferred to not pay as much for Garcon, but what you or anyone else can't argue is...that was the going rate at that time. Just as the stock market, certain positions/players price is bumped when it's in demand.That being said, nobody here has said we are a top tier team that is bound to win the Super Bowl next year. What you do hear or read between the lines of Redskins fans is an optimism that the organization is headed in the right direction and possible by all accounts getting a much needed FRANCHISE QB. People will debate about how good Shanny has been, but for the first time in a LONG time we are operating like a genuine NFL franchise with a GM and HC who know what they are doing, but more importantly have a plan and direction.

I appreciate a well thought out response, good job sir.I agree that the hope that comes from bringing in RGIII to the entire organization is amazing, i'm just worried they won't be able to properly surround him for awhile(relative argument).The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs? RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense? How did Carriker perform last year? Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

i wont miss landry hes too busy hitting the gym

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

i will miss him waving his finger when the running back he tackles makes a 15 yard run on us

 

[Faust]

Projecting the draft: Washington Redskins

By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com

Playing in a division that boasts the likes of Eli Manning, Michael Vick and Tony Romo as the opposing quarterbacks, the Washington Redskins knew that the only way they were going to compete for the NFC East crown was to get their own star at the position. In trading a bounty of picks to assure they'd land one of the two elite quarterback prospects of the 2012 draft, they appear to be on the verge of doing so.

General manager Bruce Allen has never been shy about spending owner Daniel Snyder's money during free agency and this off-season was no different. Building a pass-catching nucleus around their future quarterback was clearly a priority considering that head coach Mike Shanahan is now entering his third season at the helm. The Redskins have finished last in the NFC East with Shanahan as the head coach and are just 11-21 during that time.

As such, the team franchised and later re-signed tight end Fred Davis to a one-year, 5.446 million dollar deal and brought in veteran wideouts Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan to five-year contracts.

While the offense has struggled, the defense is in good hands with coordinator Jim Haslett, though help in the secondary is a priority as are finding replacements for inside linebackers London Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh and Keyaron Fox, each of who are currently unsigned.

The Redskins enter the 2012 draft with seven selections but do not have their second round pick as it was part of the deal with St. Louis, so after landing their quarterback at No. 2 overall, the Redskins will have to be sure to find a player who can help immediately with their next pick, the sixth selection of the third round and No. 69, overall.

Five picks Mike Shanahan should contemplate:

QB Robert Griffin III, Baylor (NFLDraftScout.com ranking: 2)

Despite what Donovan McNabb thinks, RG3 would be an ideal fit in Mike and Kyle Shanahan's version of the West Coast Offense that requires accuracy, arm strength, mobility and intelligence from the quarterback position. Don't discount Griffin's charisma as another factor in why the reigning Heisman Trophy would be an ideal fit for a club desperately in need of a face to the franchise. Considering the weapons already signed in place to be around him, Griffin could enjoy a more memorable rookie season than Andrew Luck, widely anticipated to be the Colts' choice as the first pick.

OT Jeff Allen, Illinois (NFLDraftScout.com ranking: 77)

At first glance, the Redskins might appear stable at offensive tackle. Trent Williams has shown flashes of the form that led to his being the No. 4 overall pick of the 2010 draft, but is just one failed drug test away from a year-long suspension. Furthermore, veteran Jammal Brown hasn't been the steadying force the Redskins expected after adding the former New Orleans Saints' standout. Willie Smith, an undrafted free agent signed last year out of Memphis, played well when given the opportunity but the team still may look to the draft for reinforcements. Allen is rising up the board as the draft approaches and has the athleticism the Shanahans prefer at the position. He'd be considered a bit of a reach at No. 69 overall, but what good is investing all of those picks in a trade up for a quarterback if you can't protect him?

ILB James-Michael Johnson, Nevada (NFLDraftScout.com ranking 118)

At this point, inside linebacker would appear to be an area of concern for the Redskins, though the situation could be remedied quickly should the amazing London Fletcher re-sign with the club. The team also is excited about the potential of third-year player Perry Riley, who started eight games and saw action in all 16 contests last season. Nevertheless, the physical tone-setting Johnson would make sense as a fall-back option with one of the team's two fourth round picks, No. 102 and 109 overall.

FS Brandon Hardin, Oregon State (NFLDraftScout.com ranking: 125)

Having cut ties with each of last year's starting safeties - LaRon Landry and O.J. Atogwe - the Redskins addressed this position in free agency, signing former Pro Bowler Brandon Meriweather and agreeing to a deal with Madieu Williams. Depth isn't a huge concern for the team considering the presence second-year safety DeJon Gomes and veteran Reed Doughty, though Hardin's size and athleticism might catch their attention on day three. Hardin, a former cornerback at Oregon State, missed the entire 2011 season with a shoulder injury and thus, has flown a bit under the radar but is viewed as a prospect with intriguing upside.

DT/NG Hebron Fangupo, BYU (NFLDraftScout.com ranking: 168)

The Redskins have a solid defensive line but every club is looking to develop interior linemen, especially those with the strength and frame to handle the invaluable nose guard position. What Fangupo may lack in name recognition among fans, he makes up for with strength and tenacity. Some clubs have concerns about Fangupo's health, which could push him down the board a bit. The team, assuming they do not have the same concerns, would be fortunate to see him available with their sixth round pick, No. 173 overall.

 

[fatness]

Also, Jarvis Jenkins has been given 100% clearance to resume football activities.

I can't wait to see Jenkins on the field.

 

[fatness]

The other thing that i'm curious about is how long will Shanny be the HC if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs?

I think he'll get at least the next 2 years, to see how he does with Griffin on the field.

RGIII is a great fit for his type of offense, Helu seemed to be a fit at times, and lets say Fred Davis/Trent Williams keep their noses out...they are fits as well.

Agreed.

Jamaal Brown was less than stellar at RT, you're interior line I don't have a clue so some perspective would be nice.

Jamaal Brown has been nothing but a disappointment since they traded for him. His injuries keep him from playing much, or playing well when he plays. I think his best years are behind him and he's at best a backup if he's not hurt. I do think they'll draft at least 1 OT this year. RG is Chester, who I think was substandard but others here think was average. C is Will Montgomery, who is at best average but does seem to keep improving and is fairly young. LG is Lichtensteiger, who used to be horrible but has progressed to "almost average". He's also young and may keep improving. LT is Williams, who can really change the running game in a good way when he's healthy. When he stops by for weed I don't give him any any more.

WR yall have a bunch of players now- Santana Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson, Garcon, Morgan.

Moss may not make the team. He was injured last year and dropped waaay too many balls. Hankerson is mostly unknown. I think I'm higher on his ability than most folks here. This year will be key for him, and he needs to stay healthy. Gaffney knows how to get open frequently. He's not young or flashy, but "open" has been a somewhat unfamiliar concept for Redskin WR's for the last several years so he'll stay and play. Garcon (especially) and Morgan should open up the field for the passing game in a way no Redskin WR did during the last several years.

Any hope for Cooley to return to pair with Davis?

Cooley is past his prime but can still contribute if he stays healthy. I have doubts that he'll be able to do so, but he's been solid for years on crappy teams.I think Davis is the star of the receiving corps. Apparently the formations they use get him matched on LB's, and he was open deep a lot last year. A lot. I don't see any reason he won't keep improving since by all reports he works hard and has a good attitude. I don't give weed to him any more either.

On defense Kerrigan/Orakbo is a great combination, but what other young players do yall have on defense?

Jarvis Jenkins was the star of last training camp, the best defensive lineman on the field. He got hurt and missed the whole season. I think this year he'll pick up where he left off and will provide a lot of pressure from either DE or NT. I think he'll make a tangible difference on the defense, which should hide some of their pass defense deficiencies.

How did Carriker perform last year?

Solid. Average.

Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective. Deangelo Hall is well Deangelo Hall, Griffin helps a bit for now...I wouldn't expect a ton out of Merriweather.

Losing Landry happened 2 years ago. He's been injured so much, and still-injured when he played, that he's made little difference. They do have needs at safety and CB. Whether the guys they've signed will be adequate, I don't know yet. Their biggest needs this year areQBQBQBOffensive line, espectially right sideDB

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I thought he was having an All-Pro/Defensive POY type of season before the injury...am I wrong?

If you're talking about 2010, then you are correct.Landry has played in 8 games since week 10 of 2010. Along with the lingering Achilles trouble (the injury sustained week 10 of '10) he missed time last season with hamstring and groin injuries. You had said "Losing Landry hurts in the secondary from a talent and leadership perspective". Landry was never really one of the leaders on the defense. At one point he certainly was one of the most talented defenders, but given the large question marks on his future health and whether he can even keep himself on the field (the deal he signed with the Jets was reported to be very incentive-laden with bonuses for each week he's on the active roster), it's very debatable that he even has the talent anymore.

Oh okay, I must've been off a year. I just remember he had a great stretch of play and assumed it was last year. I also assumed he had some leadership capabilities. I know MEangelo Hall doesn't