Summer Wheat
Footballguy
China ain’t going to war with us. Their entire economy depends on us.
Really wish just one time China would say "You know..we are siding with the USA on this one"
Then Russia who say Whoaaa
China ain’t going to war with us. Their entire economy depends on us.
That’s pretty funny, but North Korea had funnier lies, like Kim Jong Il shooting something like a 34 with 6 aces the first time he touched a golf club.[icon] said:Putin approaching North Korean levels of comedy with this propaganda:
Apparently Putin now claiming "we were just training", and the west has been "humiliated & destroyed" in historic fashion for thinking they were going to attack
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-moscow-says-western-propaganda-has-failed-without-a-single-shot-fired-12542524
Kim Jong Un is Impressed
[icon] said:Putin approaching North Korean levels of comedy with this propaganda:
Apparently Putin now claiming "we were just training", and the west has been "humiliated & destroyed" in historic fashion for thinking they were going to attack
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-moscow-says-western-propaganda-has-failed-without-a-single-shot-fired-12542524
Kim Jong Un is Impressed
Looking like maybe this was all a bunch of sabre rattling for Putin to gain some ground domestically and abroad. Hoping that's all it is and this drawback is legit and not just feigning before a strike.Reading a bit more today and this article articulates well what I'm starting to believe; that Putin is just using the troop buildup and ensuing hysteria to gain some concessions elsewhere.
I'm no expert and do not know how this will shake out, but with regards to Putin's motivations, I think it's safe to say that he's just trying to protect his massive kleptocracy operation. Threatening Ukraine rallies nationalistic-minded citizenry that distracts from his ongoing thievery (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!), which would lead me to believe that he is bluffing; but on the other hand, he wants to drag down Ukraine by whatever means because a thriving neighbor will eventually come home to roost.In the Cold War/U.S.S.R. era, there were no NATO countries on they’d borders. East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Albania were controlled by brutal force. Today 5 of the 14 countries bordering Russia are NATO allies.
The fundamental security promise of NATO is an attack on any member is considered an attack on all members. Ukraine is nowhere near being accepted (it takes a unanimous vote of 30-0) but it’s a distant possibility.
Ukraine has been independent for 30+ years and holds democratic elections. The Communists have had no national representation in Ukraine since 2014. For obvious reasons Putin/Russia hate the example their neighbor sets.
I’m trying to better understand what Putin’s end game is - he’s given the UK/US impossible demands which he knows won’t be met (I.e., a halt to NATO’s expansion eastward, a formal veto on Ukraine from ever joining the military alliance, and a rollback of NATO military deployments in the region.)
On a micro level, many Russians feel Russia/Ukraine are inextricably linked. Historically they are one Slav people and have been since the 9th century. But this view of course ignores the wishes of the Ukrainian people, who long ago chose autonomy.
On the surface of the sun. Sunspots are the Dear Leader's footsteps.... Kim Jong Il shooting something like a 34 with 6 aces the first time he touched a golf club.
@BobbyLayne , I was trying to work these five out -- an opportunity for me to learn.In the Cold War/U.S.S.R. era, there were no NATO countries on they’d border ... Today 5 of the 14 countries bordering Russia are NATO allies.
Romania@BobbyLayne , I was trying to work these five out -- an opportunity for me to learn.
So, I got the three Baltic Republics -- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. And Poland butts up against the Kaliningrad Oblast enclave. So that's four bordering NATO countries by land.
Which country is the fifth? Are you counting the sea border between the eastern tip of Siberia and Alaska (the Diomede Islands)? Or something else?
Romania?Romania@BobbyLayne , I was trying to work these five out -- an opportunity for me to learn.
So, I got the three Baltic Republics -- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. And Poland butts up against the Kaliningrad Oblast enclave. So that's four bordering NATO countries by land.
Which country is the fifth? Are you counting the sea border between the eastern tip of Siberia and Alaska (the Diomede Islands)? Or something else?
I don’t make the rules, I just parrot them
that’s what they sayRomania?
Wikipedia, second sentence. Please foward link along to your twenty sources.that’s what they say
you have a source that says something other than five LMK
The article you linked doesn't say or show five. However, I did find an apparent answer on NATO's own website -- the fifth one must, indeed, be the United States according the map shown under the "Myth 4" section (note where the yellow borders are drawn). That's despite them seeming to specify five land borders.I don’t make the rules, I just parrot them
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html?amp
I’ve seen twenty sources that say five. You should reach out to set the record straight bc their definition is flawed.
Bobby drinks free at the Officer's Club the rest of the night!Bolded are the 5 NATO.
I mean, did he really expect us to believe that? Shooter McGavin isn’t even that good!On the surface of the sun. Sunspots are the Dear Leader's footsteps.
Wait, that didn’t happen?That’s pretty funny, but North Korea had funnier lies, like Kim Jong Il shooting something like a 34 with 6 aces the first time he touched a golf club.
No, but he apparently pulled off a Space Jam-esque half court dunk despite being 3’2”.Wait, that didn’t happen?
I'm starting to think it was the latter. Things are escalating. Russia kicked our #2 diplomat out of their country and then announced that we have ignored their security demands. Meanwhile Lukashenko (Belarusian President and Russia's closest ally, also bordering Ukraine) is mocking the Western world for being wrong about a Wednesday invasion and stating that they and Russia have essentially merged their armies into one force.Looking like maybe this was all a bunch of sabre rattling for Putin to gain some ground domestically and abroad. Hoping that's all it is and this drawback is legit and not just feigning before a strike.
This seems like it's happening. I mean doesn't feel like anyone is going to do a damn thing here and it will look like the Taliban taking over Kabul with Kiev this time.
Sleestak said:Ага. И после Украины не осталось ничего, кроме стран НАТО. Танки идут мордой к морде.
ура.....ура....ураJayrod said:Я начинаю думать, что это было. Ситуация обостряется. Россия выгнала президента дипломата №2 из своей страны, а затем объявила, что мы проигнорировали их требования безопасности. Тем временем Лукашенко (президент Белоруссии и ближайший союзник России, а также пограничный с Украиной) высмеивает западный мир за его неправоту в отношении участия в окружающей среде и области, что они и Россия, по собранию, собрали свои армии в каждую силу.
Настоящего вторжения по-прежнему нет, но разведка США сообщает, что, несмотря на слова Путина, они действительно не выводят никаких войск с границами и, возможно, даже увеличивают их численность.
Not sure where you are headed here?
They do joint naval exercises (for around 10 years), but have no formal pact. That seems highly unlikely to change - there are definite limits to their mutual cooperation. China is not coming to Russia’s aid in the event of conflict.
China’s only formal ally is North Korea.
China is being more direct in exerting their influence. You can google Wolf Warrior Diplomacy to learn more about the evolution. They are in no way tied to an alliance with Russia.
Well crap. Russia is moving in.
They are "recognizing" the factions they planted as separate from Ukraine and are moving in to "assist" them with establishing control against the big bad Ukrainian government.
The ruse was established and justification manufactured so here we are and tanks have now rolled in (though unmarked). Not sure if the ultimate goal is to take Kiev or not, but the war on the ground has started.
While not a perfect analogy, sounds a bit Sudetenland ish.They are "recognizing" the factions they planted as separate from Ukraine and are moving in to "assist" them with establishing control against the big bad Ukrainian government.
Agree. Germany's actions will play a large role in how all this plays out. Turn off the pipeline and Russia's economy is toast.There is no analogy for this sort of annexation with a nuclear backdrop to it. It is not a repeat of anything heretofore seen.
It sounds like the pipeline between Germany and Russia will be a fulcrum of any proposed sanctions. Should Germany keep its pipeline with Russia turned on, a NATO country will be unwilling to exercise sanctions against Russia for taking part of Ukraine.
Should be interesting.
One minute ago from the Guardian:Agree. Germany's actions will play a large role in how all this plays out. Turn off the pipeline and Russia's economy is toast.
Just one more reason to get off fossil fuel as fast as possible.
While not a perfect analogy, sounds a bit Sudetenland ish.
Go after the the ex-pat oligarchs. Freeze their money, take their yachts, kick their kids out of unversities. Maybe send ICE down to Miami and start deporting Russian citizens. I hear the weather is beautiful in Russia this time of year.Chess match here. Russia aggressively moves into two regions where they've already been interfering (heavy Russian populations) ...NATO starts with some sanctions. What's the next move? Is this like Crimea with an uneasy, new balance within Ukraine?
It’s a pointless endeavor. Putin wants Ukrainian territory, and he will apparently do whatever it takes to get it.The strategy sounds familiar.
Without going unhinged politics.. why does the USA presume to have a leg to stand on?