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***Official MLB 2013 Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I think my internet machine is broken. It says Houston is up 9-0 in the 2nd! I didn't think they would score 9 runs in April.
"Heheheh... you just can't figure out this game, Suzyn..."
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
sporthenry
Footballguy
I see Axford still doing the good work. Thank god that someone took him right before I was about to.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
strykerpks
Footballguy
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
I bet I couldn't get Ollie Perez for Josh Hamilton right now!
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Altuve FINALLY scored a run after being on base in all but one game so far. Then he decided he'd score another one by hitting a home run, which might be something he'll have to do more of to get over 30 runs scored in 2013.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
What everyday player in recent times has been as small as Altuve?
Freddie Patek is the name that first comes to mind. I'm sure there must be someone else.
Freddie Patek is the name that first comes to mind. I'm sure there must be someone else.
Eephus
Footballguy
another sombrero night for Wallace. I originally added up his strikeouts wrong but now he's up to 17 in 21.
Eephus
Footballguy
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Eckstein is a good one. 5'6". Craig Grebeck 5'7".
Altuve is listed at 5'5", as is Patek.
I was surprised to see Juan Pierre listed at 5'10". He seems shorter.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Eckstein is 5-7. Rollins is as well and Pedroia is in that ballpark. Altuve is 5-5 or 5-6, depending what cleats he's wearing.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
I know this is going back a ways, but Hack Wilson was only 5' 6". Yes, the Hack Wilson of 56 HR 191 RBI in 1930 Hack Wilson.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Trout triples easily on a ball where 95% of major leaguers are standing on second base.
the moops
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Since when is Chris Young such a butcher in the OF?
the moops
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
5 afternoon games today. 
pantagrapher
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Maddenf
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Any of them interleague?5 afternoon games today.
Nope, I can watch them all! 
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Interesting timing- the day after we had this discussion this article about Porter's former team and their strategy of taking pitches appeared in the Washington Post.I don't have a problem with a manager yanking a guy for disobeying an order or missing a sign. It's been happening that way for over a century. Porter is new and his team is young. If this his way to make a point that he's in charge,The incident fits perfectly with what I know about him from his time in DC. To borrow from Herm Edwards, he's a "you play to win the game" type, no exceptions to the rule. He was most well known in DC for getting into it with the Cubs' entire dugout when they got uspet about someone stealing third when the Nats were up several runs. The fact that the Astros aren't going anywhere wouldn't even enter into his decision. He'd say what he's trying to "teach" them is how to win baseball games. Not that I agree, but I'm pretty sure that's his thought process.I think it would be worse if this was the Stros logic. They aren't going anywhere this year. They are essentially an extension of their farm system. So if you are trying to teach your players patience in hitting, that might be one thing. But if you are pulling a guy b/c you are trying this hard to win a game in April when you might win 70 games this year, I think that is ridiculous. This just sounds like a new manager over managing and then doling out punishment b/c he is new.Saunders clearly had control issues in his previous start. Plus if he doesn't have swing and miss stuff, it's less costly to put yourself behind in the count. And I'm no expert on the Seattle bullpen, but just looking at their roster it looks mediocre at best. Kinda seems like taking a few pitches would be a solid plan.This is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care if you're striking out an extreme rate - sometimes the best pitch you get is the first one. You're team is not scoring and now you're telling your CLEAN UP hitter to lose his aggression? This is not a 19-20 year old kid in his first season, Martinez will be 26 this year and this is his third season.
I'm not going to kill Porter for this, but telling your clean up pitchers to take pitches is playing not to win (something the Astros do well).
They have zero aggression, and if you're team can't hit, why take the bat out of their hands and have them fall behind in the count? It's not like Joe Saunders is a k machine out there, he's a junk throwing, 4 or 5 starter.
And speaking of lack of aggression, the Astros have zero stolen bases this year. They have zero ATTEMPTED stolen bases this year. WTF they think they are going to do, string together a bunch of hits to produce runs?
I hope the Astros have a season of epic proportions. 125 losses, 2000+k's. Poor Bo Porter, enjoy your season, and keep taking the bats out of the hands of your players
The question is whether it's a good strategy to tell your team to always take the first pitch. I checked the game log. Every Astros batter up to Martinez' second AB took the first pitch except for two batters. Five took called strike 1, five took a ball. Barnes and Carter swung at the first offering in earlier ABs.
Eephus
Footballguy
I watched a few innings of Houston v. Seattle last night to see the Astros mash and sadistically marvel at Brett Wallace's incompetence. The Mariners' announcers made a comment about how aggressive the Astros had been early in the counts. This was while Furbush was pitching so it probably was the third or fourth time through the lineup. It seems counter to the team orders Porter was giving out the night before.Interesting timing- the day after we had this discussion this article about Porter's former team and their strategy of taking pitches appeared in the Washington Post.I don't have a problem with a manager yanking a guy for disobeying an order or missing a sign. It's been happening that way for over a century. Porter is new and his team is young. If this his way to make a point that he's in charge,The incident fits perfectly with what I know about him from his time in DC. To borrow from Herm Edwards, he's a "you play to win the game" type, no exceptions to the rule. He was most well known in DC for getting into it with the Cubs' entire dugout when they got uspet about someone stealing third when the Nats were up several runs. The fact that the Astros aren't going anywhere wouldn't even enter into his decision. He'd say what he's trying to "teach" them is how to win baseball games. Not that I agree, but I'm pretty sure that's his thought process.I think it would be worse if this was the Stros logic. They aren't going anywhere this year. They are essentially an extension of their farm system. So if you are trying to teach your players patience in hitting, that might be one thing. But if you are pulling a guy b/c you are trying this hard to win a game in April when you might win 70 games this year, I think that is ridiculous. This just sounds like a new manager over managing and then doling out punishment b/c he is new.Saunders clearly had control issues in his previous start. Plus if he doesn't have swing and miss stuff, it's less costly to put yourself behind in the count. And I'm no expert on the Seattle bullpen, but just looking at their roster it looks mediocre at best. Kinda seems like taking a few pitches would be a solid plan.This is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care if you're striking out an extreme rate - sometimes the best pitch you get is the first one. You're team is not scoring and now you're telling your CLEAN UP hitter to lose his aggression? This is not a 19-20 year old kid in his first season, Martinez will be 26 this year and this is his third season.
I'm not going to kill Porter for this, but telling your clean up pitchers to take pitches is playing not to win (something the Astros do well).
They have zero aggression, and if you're team can't hit, why take the bat out of their hands and have them fall behind in the count? It's not like Joe Saunders is a k machine out there, he's a junk throwing, 4 or 5 starter.
And speaking of lack of aggression, the Astros have zero stolen bases this year. They have zero ATTEMPTED stolen bases this year. WTF they think they are going to do, string together a bunch of hits to produce runs?
I hope the Astros have a season of epic proportions. 125 losses, 2000+k's. Poor Bo Porter, enjoy your season, and keep taking the bats out of the hands of your players
The question is whether it's a good strategy to tell your team to always take the first pitch. I checked the game log. Every Astros batter up to Martinez' second AB took the first pitch except for two batters. Five took called strike 1, five took a ball. Barnes and Carter swung at the first offering in earlier ABs.
I like Porter from what I know about him. Hope he's able to survive in the job until some of their talent develops.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah who knows whether it's an every day plan or it was a Joe Saunders plan or whatever.I watched a few innings of Houston v. Seattle last night to see the Astros mash and sadistically marvel at Brett Wallace's incompetence. The Mariners' announcers made a comment about how aggressive the Astros had been early in the counts. This was while Furbush was pitching so it probably was the third or fourth time through the lineup. It seems counter to the team orders Porter was giving out the night before.Interesting timing- the day after we had this discussion this article about Porter's former team and their strategy of taking pitches appeared in the Washington Post.I don't have a problem with a manager yanking a guy for disobeying an order or missing a sign. It's been happening that way for over a century. Porter is new and his team is young. If this his way to make a point that he's in charge,The incident fits perfectly with what I know about him from his time in DC. To borrow from Herm Edwards, he's a "you play to win the game" type, no exceptions to the rule. He was most well known in DC for getting into it with the Cubs' entire dugout when they got uspet about someone stealing third when the Nats were up several runs. The fact that the Astros aren't going anywhere wouldn't even enter into his decision. He'd say what he's trying to "teach" them is how to win baseball games. Not that I agree, but I'm pretty sure that's his thought process.I think it would be worse if this was the Stros logic. They aren't going anywhere this year. They are essentially an extension of their farm system. So if you are trying to teach your players patience in hitting, that might be one thing. But if you are pulling a guy b/c you are trying this hard to win a game in April when you might win 70 games this year, I think that is ridiculous. This just sounds like a new manager over managing and then doling out punishment b/c he is new.Saunders clearly had control issues in his previous start. Plus if he doesn't have swing and miss stuff, it's less costly to put yourself behind in the count. And I'm no expert on the Seattle bullpen, but just looking at their roster it looks mediocre at best. Kinda seems like taking a few pitches would be a solid plan.This is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care if you're striking out an extreme rate - sometimes the best pitch you get is the first one. You're team is not scoring and now you're telling your CLEAN UP hitter to lose his aggression? This is not a 19-20 year old kid in his first season, Martinez will be 26 this year and this is his third season.
I'm not going to kill Porter for this, but telling your clean up pitchers to take pitches is playing not to win (something the Astros do well).
They have zero aggression, and if you're team can't hit, why take the bat out of their hands and have them fall behind in the count? It's not like Joe Saunders is a k machine out there, he's a junk throwing, 4 or 5 starter.
And speaking of lack of aggression, the Astros have zero stolen bases this year. They have zero ATTEMPTED stolen bases this year. WTF they think they are going to do, string together a bunch of hits to produce runs?
I hope the Astros have a season of epic proportions. 125 losses, 2000+k's. Poor Bo Porter, enjoy your season, and keep taking the bats out of the hands of your players
The question is whether it's a good strategy to tell your team to always take the first pitch. I checked the game log. Every Astros batter up to Martinez' second AB took the first pitch except for two batters. Five took called strike 1, five took a ball. Barnes and Carter swung at the first offering in earlier ABs.
I like Porter from what I know about him. Hope he's able to survive in the job until some of their talent develops.
Porter was much-loved in DC, most people thought he would inherit the top spot when Davey retires. I'm definitely rooting for him.
sporthenry
Footballguy
See, I have no problem with that. But those seem to be skills that guys pick up in the minors (albeit they might as well be in the minors) or just guys who don't mind hitting with 2 strikes. I've long felt that the success of the Red Sox and Yankees have been their ability to work counts and get to the bull pen. Then as Werth mentions, you make the pitcher work and your 3/4/5 hitters come in looking to mash the first pitch. I think ideally you'd want a combination of both. Ultimately, there are guys who are just dreadful 0-2. So if you have a guy that is like that, I'm not going to put him behind in the count which will kill his approach.Interesting timing- the day after we had this discussion this article about Porter's former team and their strategy of taking pitches appeared in the Washington Post.I don't have a problem with a manager yanking a guy for disobeying an order or missing a sign. It's been happening that way for over a century. Porter is new and his team is young. If this his way to make a point that he's in charge,The incident fits perfectly with what I know about him from his time in DC. To borrow from Herm Edwards, he's a "you play to win the game" type, no exceptions to the rule. He was most well known in DC for getting into it with the Cubs' entire dugout when they got uspet about someone stealing third when the Nats were up several runs. The fact that the Astros aren't going anywhere wouldn't even enter into his decision. He'd say what he's trying to "teach" them is how to win baseball games. Not that I agree, but I'm pretty sure that's his thought process.I think it would be worse if this was the Stros logic. They aren't going anywhere this year. They are essentially an extension of their farm system. So if you are trying to teach your players patience in hitting, that might be one thing. But if you are pulling a guy b/c you are trying this hard to win a game in April when you might win 70 games this year, I think that is ridiculous. This just sounds like a new manager over managing and then doling out punishment b/c he is new.Saunders clearly had control issues in his previous start. Plus if he doesn't have swing and miss stuff, it's less costly to put yourself behind in the count. And I'm no expert on the Seattle bullpen, but just looking at their roster it looks mediocre at best. Kinda seems like taking a few pitches would be a solid plan.This is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care if you're striking out an extreme rate - sometimes the best pitch you get is the first one. You're team is not scoring and now you're telling your CLEAN UP hitter to lose his aggression? This is not a 19-20 year old kid in his first season, Martinez will be 26 this year and this is his third season.
I'm not going to kill Porter for this, but telling your clean up pitchers to take pitches is playing not to win (something the Astros do well).
They have zero aggression, and if you're team can't hit, why take the bat out of their hands and have them fall behind in the count? It's not like Joe Saunders is a k machine out there, he's a junk throwing, 4 or 5 starter.
And speaking of lack of aggression, the Astros have zero stolen bases this year. They have zero ATTEMPTED stolen bases this year. WTF they think they are going to do, string together a bunch of hits to produce runs?
I hope the Astros have a season of epic proportions. 125 losses, 2000+k's. Poor Bo Porter, enjoy your season, and keep taking the bats out of the hands of your players
The question is whether it's a good strategy to tell your team to always take the first pitch. I checked the game log. Every Astros batter up to Martinez' second AB took the first pitch except for two batters. Five took called strike 1, five took a ball. Barnes and Carter swung at the first offering in earlier ABs.
And what probably gets me the most is that this appears to be a plan designed solely for this pitcher. That isn't how you develop hitters. If you want to teach Maxwell patience at the plate, that is one thing. But manipulating young hitters approaches based solely on the pitcher seems wrong to me.
rodg12
Footballguy
What? Executing and sticking to a game plan/scouting report should definitely be part of developing a hitter.See, I have no problem with that. But those seem to be skills that guys pick up in the minors (albeit they might as well be in the minors) or just guys who don't mind hitting with 2 strikes. I've long felt that the success of the Red Sox and Yankees have been their ability to work counts and get to the bull pen. Then as Werth mentions, you make the pitcher work and your 3/4/5 hitters come in looking to mash the first pitch. I think ideally you'd want a combination of both. Ultimately, there are guys who are just dreadful 0-2. So if you have a guy that is like that, I'm not going to put him behind in the count which will kill his approach.Interesting timing- the day after we had this discussion this article about Porter's former team and their strategy of taking pitches appeared in the Washington Post.I don't have a problem with a manager yanking a guy for disobeying an order or missing a sign. It's been happening that way for over a century. Porter is new and his team is young. If this his way to make a point that he's in charge,The incident fits perfectly with what I know about him from his time in DC. To borrow from Herm Edwards, he's a "you play to win the game" type, no exceptions to the rule. He was most well known in DC for getting into it with the Cubs' entire dugout when they got uspet about someone stealing third when the Nats were up several runs. The fact that the Astros aren't going anywhere wouldn't even enter into his decision. He'd say what he's trying to "teach" them is how to win baseball games. Not that I agree, but I'm pretty sure that's his thought process.I think it would be worse if this was the Stros logic. They aren't going anywhere this year. They are essentially an extension of their farm system. So if you are trying to teach your players patience in hitting, that might be one thing. But if you are pulling a guy b/c you are trying this hard to win a game in April when you might win 70 games this year, I think that is ridiculous. This just sounds like a new manager over managing and then doling out punishment b/c he is new.Saunders clearly had control issues in his previous start. Plus if he doesn't have swing and miss stuff, it's less costly to put yourself behind in the count. And I'm no expert on the Seattle bullpen, but just looking at their roster it looks mediocre at best. Kinda seems like taking a few pitches would be a solid plan.This is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care if you're striking out an extreme rate - sometimes the best pitch you get is the first one. You're team is not scoring and now you're telling your CLEAN UP hitter to lose his aggression? This is not a 19-20 year old kid in his first season, Martinez will be 26 this year and this is his third season.
I'm not going to kill Porter for this, but telling your clean up pitchers to take pitches is playing not to win (something the Astros do well).
They have zero aggression, and if you're team can't hit, why take the bat out of their hands and have them fall behind in the count? It's not like Joe Saunders is a k machine out there, he's a junk throwing, 4 or 5 starter.
And speaking of lack of aggression, the Astros have zero stolen bases this year. They have zero ATTEMPTED stolen bases this year. WTF they think they are going to do, string together a bunch of hits to produce runs?
I hope the Astros have a season of epic proportions. 125 losses, 2000+k's. Poor Bo Porter, enjoy your season, and keep taking the bats out of the hands of your players
The question is whether it's a good strategy to tell your team to always take the first pitch. I checked the game log. Every Astros batter up to Martinez' second AB took the first pitch except for two batters. Five took called strike 1, five took a ball. Barnes and Carter swung at the first offering in earlier ABs.
And what probably gets me the most is that this appears to be a plan designed solely for this pitcher. That isn't how you develop hitters. If you want to teach Maxwell patience at the plate, that is one thing. But manipulating young hitters approaches based solely on the pitcher seems wrong to me.
Please See Mine
Footballguy
So I just saw latroy Hawkins warming up in the mets bullpen. That was a hallucination, right? Right?!?'
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
It's amazing to me that ANYONE would walk through the gates to see a Marlins home game. I would not put a penny in the pocket of that POS. I have to believe that the majority of the people at the game are there to see the opponents. Either way, Loria wins.
Premier
Footballguy
I agree. It's shocking any Marlins fans go. That said, we are driving down there at some point to see a Rays game there. The only road stadium in the majors where you can loudly hear Rays fans.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
That scumbag should be in jail.
sporthenry
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Nice work by Hanrahan.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Well I haven't really sat in on too many game plan meetings but I've rarely seen a team unilaterally take the first pitch. I'm sure they have game plans to work counts but I just can't see them telling guys to purposely take the first pitch especially when some guys just aren't comfortable behind in the count. Maybe I'm off base here and maybe b/c they are a AAA team makes this different for the majors but in the day and age when seemingly most hitters have the green light 3-0, it seems counter intuitive to force guys to take the first pitch.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
They started a guy at 1B tonight that had NEVER played the position before. Not even in Little League. He promptly dropped the first ball thrown to him.Loria is a joke. I hope he's forced to sell the team. Anytime you have just one player on your roster that was on your previous year's opening day roster, you know there's something unbelievably sick with the organization. They're like the real life version of Major League. Only this team will suck all year.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Red Sox sellout streak over, 794 games.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Break the Astros up. 24 runs in 2 games.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Is anyone here (other than Eephus) old enough to have seen Sandy Koufax pitch full games live? Noted blowhard Mike Francesa was going on and on today about how NOBODY could touch Koufax as the greatest pitcher he's ever seen, and this isn't the first time he has stated this. Now, a couple of things.
During Koufax's incredible 4-5 year run, Francesa would have been 8, 9, 10 and 11 years old. I definitely have memories of MLB at that age, but I refuse to believe anyone can fully trust and appreciate what they are seeing until the age of 14 or so. If not even later than that. His big argument was "Who else is in the Hall of Fame based on 5 great years?" and he would keep throwing that at callers who questioned Koufax's longevity. Fair enough. But he would not even entertain the argument that anyone else was on Koufax's level.
I'm sorry, but Pedro's numbers from 1997-2003 don't have to take a back seat to anyone's. And that was in the heart of the steroid era, no less.
Thoughts? Comments? Insults?
During Koufax's incredible 4-5 year run, Francesa would have been 8, 9, 10 and 11 years old. I definitely have memories of MLB at that age, but I refuse to believe anyone can fully trust and appreciate what they are seeing until the age of 14 or so. If not even later than that. His big argument was "Who else is in the Hall of Fame based on 5 great years?" and he would keep throwing that at callers who questioned Koufax's longevity. Fair enough. But he would not even entertain the argument that anyone else was on Koufax's level.
I'm sorry, but Pedro's numbers from 1997-2003 don't have to take a back seat to anyone's. And that was in the heart of the steroid era, no less.
Thoughts? Comments? Insults?
sporthenry
Footballguy
Not old enough, but I just think it is silly to compare generations. Makes for great talking points but it just isn't practical b/c the game is and was so different. But everyone always thinks the game was better back in the day and almost seem to use it as a badge of honor that in an argument they bring up you never saw Koufax so you really can't argue. Just googling his speed, some guys believe he was consistently in the 100's or even hit 104 when SI did an article putting him at 93 MPH. You add better hitters and smaller parks and it really is impossible to know.
I think we are more physical in all our sports now so if you transported Pedro Martinez into the 60's I'd think he'd dominate and if you put Koufax into today's game, he'd be good but perhaps not as great b/c that type of velocity wouldn't be as rare. But if Koufax grew up in today's time and trained with today's strength coaches, I think he'd be as good if not better than a Kershaw but I just don't think the quality of the best players change that much over time.
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dparker713
Footballguy
I take greatest to be best career, and pretty clearly either Clemens or Maddox fit that bill during my lifetime, and Koufax is no where near as good as them, and their peaks were pretty damn remarkable too.
If we're talking peak, then Pedro is right there, and Doc Gooden started pitching as I started watching - and he was pretty filthy for a few years there. If we're going shorter, Orel's scoreless streak was ridiculous as was the Cy season Greinke had a few years ago. Randy Johnson's peak years were extremely dominant as well.
Plus, he's shorting Gibson here.
Like most things Francesa says his claim lacks any real support.
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