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***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter avoiding injuries
- Start date
JZilla
Footballguy
Yeah the ump's hands were tied there. Gausman hit XB, square in the body.. with the commissioner looming, Blue doesn't have time to stand there and think about it. Pretty sure most umps would have done the same in the moment
(AJ10 clearly said something, people get tossed for that all the time)
Hate to take the ump's side, better than taking the sawx side. The loss is on Gausman, which it would have been had he stayed in anyway
(AJ10 clearly said something, people get tossed for that all the time)
Hate to take the ump's side, better than taking the sawx side. The loss is on Gausman, which it would have been had he stayed in anyway
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Poor Wade Miley. You hate to laugh, but jeez...what are the odds? 
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Regression toward the mean. Didn't they have the best one-run record last year? Or was that the year before...
Yeah, even this year I think they were like 7-1 in 1 run games prior to this stretch.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Didn't they go something ridiculous (hyperbole alert!) like 89-0 in one-run games the first year they made the playoffs under Buck?
They're hanging in there, though. Castillo (who is on a red-hot tear right now), Seth Smith, and Mancini have all been great additions to the lineup.
If Britton can come back to anything near normal, that'll reorder the bullpen and take some pressure off of guys who are pitching out-of-class.
I honestly don't know why they keep trotting Jiminez out there. Besides stinking up the joint himself, he's putting too much pressure on the offense. Christ - let one of the revolving-door minor league dudes start instead. They can not possibly be any worse.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Hard to get a read on this team so far. They're winning games despite not getting much from Machado offensively, but everything about this team just seems like every other Orioles team. Inconsistent starting pitching and offense, but they usually do just enough to win the games, even though all the stats say otherwise. Buck really does a great job managing this team.
IMO it's pretty easy to get a read on this team, and you did so with the rest of your post- good but not great and inconsistent/streaky pretty much everywhere. Their one glaring weakness continues to be the inability to manufacture runs without the long ball.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Yeah, I guess we do have a read on this team, which is the same story this team has had for the past 5 seasons. If we aren't hitting HRs, we aren't scoring runs. We rely too much on the bullpen because our starters usually struggle to make it through 5 IP. The biggest problem is that there is not much we can do to fix it all at the moment. The farm system is bad and we don't really have any good spare parts on the roster now.
I'm guessing I'm in the minority and I doubt they do it, but I really hope they are aggressive sellers at the deadline. It's pretty clear that the current make-up isn't going to be competing for a title anytime soon, might as well try and re-stock the farm system and hope they can get there in a few years.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I'm 100% on-board. Anyone not named Machado, Schoop, or Bundy should be moved. And maybe even Jones, just because he seems to love it here. But other then those guys, everyone else should be traded. I love Britton, but what good does he do when the starters can't give the pen a lead these days?
I love Britton as well, but the arm problems are a concern (and would likely lower his trade value). Hopefully he can come back, stay healthy and pitch well. If he has another setback not only would it be bad for the O's but it would plummet his trade value.
Here's where I know I'm in the minority- I think they should deal Machado. Not because I don't like him, obviously he's great, but realistically it doesn't seem likely that they're going to re-sign him (and I don't think they should at the $300mm-$400mm level), and he'll bring the most back in return by far. I can't see them being able to get much of anything for anyone else (besides the few younger/cheap guys that they should keep).
MattFancy
Footballguy
I'm on the fence with Machado. I would love if they were able to keep him. They're going to have to pony up big money, likely somewhere in the $300M range. Is that something ownership is willing to do? If not, then sure, move him now and get something really good for him in return. It's not like Machado's cost is going to come down, so ownership should be looking ahead and trying to figure out if they really want to commit that kind of money to him.
Emotionally, obviously it's a no-brainer to keep him (at least try), but in terms of what's best for the team, I think they have to deal him. I know there isn't a hard cap (outside of luxury tax) in baseball, but every team has a budget, and I just don't see how the O's can afford to keep Manny AND add enough pieces to be contenders (only a few large market teams can). I think the Cleveland/KC/Houston model is their best bet- smaller market teams who dole out huge contracts haven't done well at all (see Stanton in Miami, Votto in Cincy, Greinke in Arizona, Cano in Seattle, Mauer in Minny, etc.).
Orioles have allowed 5 runs or more in 16 straight — most in AL in at least 104 years
Only took until the 4th inning tonight to extend this to 17 straight...
Only took until the 4th inning tonight to extend this to 17 straight...
MattFancy
Footballguy
I actually view that as a negative at this point lol. This team just isn't very good, it's a minor miracle they're at .500 right now. I really don't want them having even a glimmer of hope that they can compete this year- they need to be motivated sellers, not buyers/holders. Dump as much salary as you can, add a couple of likely low level prospects for the farm system, and start rebuilding.
MattFancy
Footballguy
One of my buddies is convinced this team is going to the playoffs. Constantly talking about how they are ONLY 1GB of the last WC spot. While true, there are 8 teams in the AL within 2 games of the 2nd WC spot right now. Hell, the A's are only 5.5GB of the last WC spot and they are 9 games under .500. That's a lot of teams to have to battle with to get in. I just don't see how the O's get any better.
For one, you'd have to hope the entire rotation can turn it around. Bundy was the lone bright spot, but he hasn't looked all that impressive recently. Tillman is awful, Guasman is bad, Miley has come back down to Earth, and Ubaldo is Ubaldo. The O's have the worst team ERA, 3rd most RA/G, worst WHIP, worst H/9, and the 2nd most BBs. Granted, those numbers can only go up I guess, but that's a lot of bad stats there. With no one really in the minors to help, what do they do? No way they can add any pitching worth a damn at the deadline. So they add more #4 and #5 type guys to a staff already filled with them.
The bullpen should be better once Britton is back, but the back end hasn't mattered much since we haven't had any leads late in games. Having a lockdown guy like Britton only makes a difference if you can get to him. Brach has only pitched 7.1IP with 3 saves this month. He's been great when he's had a chance, just hasn't had many of them lately.
Offensively, there's definitely room to improve. Manny has to get going at some point, right? Last night was a good start, hopefully he keeps it up. Jones, Davis, and Trumbo have to start hitting more consistently. Schoop and Mancini have been the 2 most reliable guys in the lineup. But just like the pitching, what can they do to improve it? We have nothing of value down in the minors, so you just have to hope these guys finally get going.
So bottom line, there isn't much they can do to improve the team as the season goes, outside of hoping the current players start playing better. Considering the season is almost halfway over, I don't see much improvement in that department. The best thing for this team is to start selling pieces and looking toward the future.
I think the Orioles should be sellers at the deadline, but I don't think they have that much to sell. The most interest is in Britton and Brach. I was hoping they could get something for Castillo and O'Day. O'Day is just having a terrible year.
I noticed the Orioles changed pitching coaches over the winter. It seems like the whole pitching staff is having a bad year. Could the pitching coach be part of the problem?
I noticed the Orioles changed pitching coaches over the winter. It seems like the whole pitching staff is having a bad year. Could the pitching coach be part of the problem?
MattFancy
Footballguy
That is the problem, they don't have much to sell at this point besides some bullpen pieces. Maybe they do get something for Castillo or Smith, but it probably won't be much.
The pitching coach change probably has something to do with it. It's just hard to believe that our entire rotation would be this awful. The rotation has a 6.02 ERA this season. I know they are nothing special, but holy crap that's bad.
They won't get much in return for most of their guys, but it doesn't really matter- even if they have to take on most of their salaries, they'd be better off dumping them, saving some money, and putting it towards next year (or international players). If they can get a couple of low-level lottery tickets back as well, great.
They can't wait until the deadline either- the Nats already went out and added 2 bullpen arms, so while they still need more, they aren't as desperate so they'll be less willing to overpay. If any of their guys like Tillman, Smith, Castillo, etc. string together a good week or so, get on the horn and take whatever you can get.
They can't wait until the deadline either- the Nats already went out and added 2 bullpen arms, so while they still need more, they aren't as desperate so they'll be less willing to overpay. If any of their guys like Tillman, Smith, Castillo, etc. string together a good week or so, get on the horn and take whatever you can get.
MattFancy
Footballguy
O's are starting to get into an interesting predicament. They've now won 3 straight and sit just 3.5GB of the 2nd WC spot. I could see Angelos trying to convince DD to buy instead of sell. Is that the right move? Probably not. I still think they need to sell and sell quickly before the market for relievers dries up and they aren't able to get anything good for Britton, Brach, etc.
There's no "probably" about it, it's absolutely the wrong move to be buyers (or holders, for that matter). It isn't outside the realm of possibility that the team could sneak into the playoffs (still a very long shot), but there's zero chance that they are winning a championship. The problem is that the people calling the shots don't want to rebuild- how much longer are Angelos, Buck, and Duquette going to be around? It really sucks for the intermediate and longer term, but they won't be around to suffer the consequences.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I'm guessing this is in reference to the Hellickson trade? If it is, I 100% agree. No idea what the point of it was. This team has plenty of 4th and 5th starter types. We don't need another one, especially a guy that is a FA at the end of the season.
I have a feeling this team does nothing at the deadline today. It's the wrong move, which is probably why they just stand pat.
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MattFancy
Footballguy
No idea what they were thinking yesterday. Tim Beckham and Jeremy Hellickson are not going to make this team any better. Especially, Hellickson since he is a FA after this season. I read where Duquette said he thinks the division is still up for grabs. What division is he talking about? Surely it's not the AL East where the Orioles are closer to last place than first place. This team is so frustrating. No plan forward at all. Britton and Machado will be gone after 2018 and we'll have nothing to show for either of them. But, hooray for Beckham and Hellickson!
They were there when they got off to the best start in team history, but they are what they are- a very streaky, inconsistent team that will keep having ups and downs until they end up (likely) a few games below .500. 
When they stink in the future, I'm going to blame the Rangers- the O's went 6-1 against them in the last ~2 weeks, which likely influenced their terrible decision to be buyers at the deadline instead of sellers. <_<
When they stink in the future, I'm going to blame the Rangers- the O's went 6-1 against them in the last ~2 weeks, which likely influenced their terrible decision to be buyers at the deadline instead of sellers. <_<
MattFancy
Footballguy
Probably right. And even with this recent winning streak, next 2 weeks will be big for them. After the weekend series with Detroit, they have a 10-game west coast road trip against Seattle, Oakland, and Texas. They are 20-33 on the road this season. If they can go .500 or better, they'll still be around in the race. Anything less than that and it's probably too late. Especially when you look at the September schedule which is includes games against Boston, New York, Toronto, Tampa, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.They were there when they got off to the best start in team history, but they are what they are- a very streaky, inconsistent team that will keep having ups and downs until they end up (likely) a few games below .500.
When they stink in the future, I'm going to blame the Rangers- the O's went 6-1 against them in the last ~2 weeks, which likely influenced their terrible decision to be buyers at the deadline instead of sellers. <_<
Mathematically obviously they aren't out of it, but realistically it's a long shot, and I have zero confidence that they would advance far if they were to sneak into the post season. They've actually been lucky this year, based on their run differential they should have ~5 fewer wins than they do, but they just aren't a very good team. Sure, if a whole bunch of things all go their way maybe they could surprise, but it's highly unlikely to happen.
Took him long enough, but at least Buck has finally moved Schoop and Mancini up in the order (although he still maddeningly insists on batting Davis ahead of Mancini vs. right handers). Trumbo had better be behind them as well when he comes back.
The_Man
Footballguy
If they can go 3-3 over the remainder of this West Coast road trip, I would be thrilled - especially if they take 2 of 3 from Seattle and pick up a game on the Wild Card leader. None of the Wild Card contenders are separating themselves right now, that's for sure.
Bats are coming around, particularly if Trumbo contributes now that he's back from the DL. Davis got the night off last night and Mancini stepped up with 2 HRs - Davis needs to start swinging a better back or he'll be getting more nights off.
I don't think they have enough to make the playoffs, but they would be a team you don't want to see in a one-game playoff because of all their bullpen arms.
Strangely, I didn't disagree with their trade deadline moves. The only way you deal Britton or Manny this year is if someone gives you an Erik Bedard-style haul. Because of Manny's early struggles and Britton's injury, I don't think they were getting anything close to those kind of offers. So you keep this core together and go for the one last shot in 2018 - and if it's not happening next July, you can still trade those guys and maybe get more for them, if they're both in better form than they are now.
But next year is the end of the line for this mini-golden era. Buck will retire, Manny and Britton will be gone, followed by AJ the following year. And it will be time to build around Schoop, Mancini, Bundy and Hunter Harvery, etc.
Bats are coming around, particularly if Trumbo contributes now that he's back from the DL. Davis got the night off last night and Mancini stepped up with 2 HRs - Davis needs to start swinging a better back or he'll be getting more nights off.
I don't think they have enough to make the playoffs, but they would be a team you don't want to see in a one-game playoff because of all their bullpen arms.
Strangely, I didn't disagree with their trade deadline moves. The only way you deal Britton or Manny this year is if someone gives you an Erik Bedard-style haul. Because of Manny's early struggles and Britton's injury, I don't think they were getting anything close to those kind of offers. So you keep this core together and go for the one last shot in 2018 - and if it's not happening next July, you can still trade those guys and maybe get more for them, if they're both in better form than they are now.
But next year is the end of the line for this mini-golden era. Buck will retire, Manny and Britton will be gone, followed by AJ the following year. And it will be time to build around Schoop, Mancini, Bundy and Hunter Harvery, etc.
I take the other side on the deals. The Beckham trade made perfect sense, he's a former top pick under control for several more years at a position they need. The Hellickson one made no sense- they added another back end rotation guy who is only a rental, and it's not like they got him for free (threw away international bonus money, yet again).
Manny has a long track record, I highly doubt his value was super-depressed because of his slow start. IMO his value is going to be substantially lower at the next trade deadline, 1 1/2 years of control is worth a lot more than 1/2 year (especially considering his salary is going to go up next year). Britton is a little more dicey, his value could increase a bit if he stays healthy and gets back to his dominant old self, but if he has any more setbacks it will likely tank. He'll also be making a few more million next year.
Personally I wish they would have starting rebuilding around Schoop, Mancini, Bundy, etc. right now. I think it's very unlikely that they are contenders next year either, so they just pushed out the process by a year, and they likely won't get as much back in return for the rebuild.
