Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Well, he did get 1.10 and 2.04 back, so it's really probably somewhere around 2 1/2 1sts for Tannehill, which seems steep, but really isn't that bad in 2 QB.
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**Official 2015 Off-Season Dynasty Completed Trades Thread** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Jrodicus
Footballguy
That's kind of where I was at. Decent dropoff after top 2, a small drop after another 2 guys, then about 6-8 guys grouped together. I don't see a ton of difference between players 10 and 11 and players 6 and 7.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
12 tm superflex idp ppr
Jordan Reed
2016 4th (late)
for
3.1 (Lockett)
This piggy backed off 3.3+3.12 for Ertz, so basically I spent late 3+4 to upgrade from Reed to Ertz.
Jordan Reed
2016 4th (late)
for
3.1 (Lockett)
This piggy backed off 3.3+3.12 for Ertz, so basically I spent late 3+4 to upgrade from Reed to Ertz.
blardorg
Footballguy
I'm not sold on Hyde either. In any case, 2-3 firsts for a young top 10 dynasty QB in a 2QB league is cheap. But really, I see it as downgrading from Tannehill to Winston/Mariota, and in the process giving up 1.10+2.04 for Hyde, Matthews, and 1.07. Personally, I'd pay that to upgrade from one of the rookies to Tannehill, but that's just me.
Zyphros
Footballguy
I am the team that traded for Tannehill. Just wanted to see some reactions before I revealed who I was ha. Anyways my QB's were Cutler/Foles/Alex Smtih/EJ Manuel with a lot of question marks. Along with the fact I'm not a big hyde fan, it was still a very hard deal for me to make. I still feel a bit uneasy about it because opinions are so wide on this one. I was being forced into taking a QB at 4 (which I wasn't happy with), and then it would end up likely being Parker at 1.07 which I wasn't happy with either so I went for a QB upgrade. I'm pretty thin at WR now but still have 1.10 and 2.4 to likely fill that hole.
Anyway I did another trade today:
Gave: 4.04 and Mason
Got: RGIII
QB collecting now
DTHankmoody said:
Pick consolidation is a good ideaCR69 said:
Charles
I like that deal. Watkins for me too
Ray Finkle
Footballguy
2QB
Cordarrelle Patterson for Garrett Grayson (neither party has Brees).
Cordarrelle Patterson for Garrett Grayson (neither party has Brees).
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
So someone basically gave away a starting QB in a Superflex league for free? Crazy.Zyphros said:
bostonfred
Footballguy
1.10 and 2.4 for ridley and 1.7 would be reasonableHyde was a fairly early first last year. Matthews is worth an early first this year. And 1.4 is a premium pick this year by most accounts. I don't think you could get that package straight up for four random 2016 firsts. and that's way too high a price for a mid level qb. It wouldn't be unreasonable for Rodgers imo.Coeur de Lion said:
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
It's 2 QB -- that's not even remotely close for Aaron Rodgers man. We also disagree on the other players involved, but it really seems like you're not too familiar with value of QBs when you can start more than one.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's a pretty condescending post. Ive played in 2qb and qb heavy leagues. I get the value of quarterbacks. That's way too much to pay for tannehill.
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
I don't have the experience with 2 QB leagues but daggone, that's basically Carlos Hyde, Jordan Matthews, and Amari Cooper for Tannehill. Figured Winston and Mariota would go 1/2 in that league so the 1.04 is guaranteed Gurley or Cooper. All of that for an average (or slightly above) QB just seems crazy to me, regardless of league settings. Maybe I am wrong though, who knows.
Second thought, maybe Gordon goes 1.04 over Cooper since you require 3 RB's in starting lineup and only .5 PPR, but that's beside the point.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Don't agree on the last sentence (Rodgers), but otherwise
Too high a price for Tannehill and not particularly close IMO.
Zyphros
Footballguy
1.01 and 1.02 will be Gurley and Gordon. 1.03 is a toss up.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
He stated he expected Mariota or Winston to drop to 1.4 in his league (and my experience is that not everyone jumps on QBs, especially 10 tm leagues). So really he is spending Hyde/Matthews on top of 1.4 to "upgrade" from the rookie to Tannehill. I'm not convinced it is really an upgrade.
For leagues like this you have to consider both stability and upside. Tannehill did just sign a contract extension. It does have a lot of outs; if Miami did quit on him in 2 or 3 years, it's likely he'd get a 2nd chance with a desperate team. Given his lack of arm strength, his upside is basically what he's shown. There is some risk a top 2 QB pick will flame out fast, but it is pretty rare, and I don't think either of these guys have that risk. They're not one year wonders. They showed a lot in CFB not just stat accumulation. So IMO Tannehill offers slightly more stability with less upside (low floor for 4-8 more years vs. high ceiling for 2-15 years).
He also stated he already had 2 bottom 3rd QBs to play at the flex spot: Smith and Foles. The reason why 2QB production in Superflex is so important is you basically get RB1/WR1 stats with a bad QB. Spot starting Smith/Foles offers that on its own. The upgrade he's getting is about (at most?) 3 points a week going to Tannehill. He also was able to add RG3 for free further giving him options to fill that spot if he didn't have Tannehill. I think the desperation of his roster predicament wasn't that high. He could have gotten by, and maybe that depth at RB/WR would have mattered.
Tannehill's stats are kind of at the mercy of the coaching staff. Do people think he'd even be adequate without Bill Lazor, and how do they retain Bill Lazor with Philbin on the hot seat (3 years and hasn't won anything yet and they spent all that money to put him in position to win)?
blardorg
Footballguy
I mean, I understand if people disagree, but many rank Tannehill as a top 8-9 QB in dynasty. He's gotten better each year and he just got a lot of new, arguably better, weapons. He's a locked in starter for his team, which is something that isn't true for a decent number of NFL QBs (many of which he already had on his roster!). Even after the RG3 trade, not counting Tannehill his options were Cutler, Foles, Alex Smith, EJ Manuel, and RG3. So that's guys with very tenuous grasps, or no grasp at all, on a starting QB gig (Cutler, Manuel, RG3), and a couple mid to low end QB2s, at best (Foles, Smith). That is a pretty dire set of QBs in a superflex/2QB league. Adding either of the rookies wouldn't really change that, and even if they do become legitimate NFL QBs, that will likely be a few years down the road. There's also no guarantee that they turn out more like Luck or Tannehill himself than like Alex Smith.
To get an established starting QB that is young and projected to be top 10, without giving up an established starting QB, requires giving up some good assets. Without knowing the rest of his team, I expect QB is the biggest weakness. So even if it was an overpay by a bit, it was probably both necessary to make the trade happen and still improved his team overall. Maybe the Tannehill hype has exceeded his real value (not sure, but I don't personally think so; more like Teddy's has!). But if not, and you think he's a 27 year old top 8-9 QB with a nicely upgraded offense and an upwards trajectory, it doesn't seem like any kind of crazy overpay to me.
To get an established starting QB that is young and projected to be top 10, without giving up an established starting QB, requires giving up some good assets. Without knowing the rest of his team, I expect QB is the biggest weakness. So even if it was an overpay by a bit, it was probably both necessary to make the trade happen and still improved his team overall. Maybe the Tannehill hype has exceeded his real value (not sure, but I don't personally think so; more like Teddy's has!). But if not, and you think he's a 27 year old top 8-9 QB with a nicely upgraded offense and an upwards trajectory, it doesn't seem like any kind of crazy overpay to me.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
That is where I disagree with you, there are a lot of guys that are locked in as starters.
Brady
Romo
Brees
Eli
Peyton
Big Ben
Stafford
Ryan
Cam
Wilson
Flacco
Dalton
Rodgers
Rivers
Smith
Luck
Bortles
Bridgewater
Carr
Tannehill
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jtd13
Footballguy
Jameis Winston could also be added to that list, who may have been available for the guy getting Tannehill. From a fantasy perspective, I'm not sure Tannehill is even an upgrade over Winston, and I'm a Dolphins homer.
blardorg
Footballguy
20/32 means if any one team has 3 or more, someone else is going to be missing a locked in starter as one of their 2 starting QBs. That's all I was trying to say there. To be fair, though, my values are calibrated to 12 team 2QB, so I concede I might be overvaluing Tannehill due to that. Anyway, that's a good list to keep in mind. I'd imagine the owners with Rodgers, Wilson, and Luck wouldn't trade them for anything not including a great QB in return. Ryan, Ben, and Cam would be great, but likely cost significantly more than Tannehill and not necessarily be worth that difference. Stafford and Romo almost certainly would've been available for that price, but I think I'd take Tannehill over then anyway. Peyton, Brady, and possibly Brees would be great short term, but probably not worth giving up premium picks or talent for at this point. Steady lower ceiling vets would be guys like Flacco, Alex Smith, and Dalton. The remaining guys with upside and talent are, for me, Bridgewater, Tannehill, and probably Carr. Those are guys with good upside, decent production now, but not so expensive that they're unobtainable. It's possible that package could've landed someone like Ryan or Cam, and I would've liked that better than Tannehill, but I think that's about the limit of what it would've bought. I just don't think it would get anyone in that top 3 of QBs.
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Zyphros
Footballguy
So my trade sparked some good points and conversation here. To give a little bit more context, I am completing a rebuild and QB was probably my weakest position. I am also rather high on Tannehill and low on Hyde. After that trade, this is what my starting lineup looks like
Tannehill
Cutler (Or Foles, RGIII, Alex Smith, EJ, whoever you prefer)
OBJ
Evans
Charles Johnson
L. Bell
CJ Anderson
L. Murray
Ebron
Clay
Likely Terrance West as flex
That doesn't include 1.02 (Gordon), 1.10, 2.04, 4.02 that I still have as well. I think Tannehill is the "next best" young QB and I'm certainly a fan of the new plethora of weapons he has. The more I look and think it over the more I realize it had to be done, I'm set up to compete and if I hit on 2/4 of these draft picks (which I have a good track record of), then I'll be doing pretty well. I wasn't going to win with Cutler/Foles as my starters, so an upgrade was necessary. I guess you could say there's a very limited group of players that I actually like, that can fit into what my team is trying to do, and Tannehill is my favorite of that bunch by far. Not a big Mariota or Winston fan and I'm usually pretty cautious when it comes to QB's which probably played a role in the trade as well. Sure I gave up a lot but I'm almost set to win this league I think.
Tannehill
Cutler (Or Foles, RGIII, Alex Smith, EJ, whoever you prefer)
OBJ
Evans
Charles Johnson
L. Bell
CJ Anderson
L. Murray
Ebron
Clay
Likely Terrance West as flex
That doesn't include 1.02 (Gordon), 1.10, 2.04, 4.02 that I still have as well. I think Tannehill is the "next best" young QB and I'm certainly a fan of the new plethora of weapons he has. The more I look and think it over the more I realize it had to be done, I'm set up to compete and if I hit on 2/4 of these draft picks (which I have a good track record of), then I'll be doing pretty well. I wasn't going to win with Cutler/Foles as my starters, so an upgrade was necessary. I guess you could say there's a very limited group of players that I actually like, that can fit into what my team is trying to do, and Tannehill is my favorite of that bunch by far. Not a big Mariota or Winston fan and I'm usually pretty cautious when it comes to QB's which probably played a role in the trade as well. Sure I gave up a lot but I'm almost set to win this league I think.
slackjawedyokel
Footballguy
Well it looks close to complete... You should be a contender with that squad!
dipandglide
Footballguy
12 team PPR 4pt passing 6pt rushing/receiving
What side do you like the best?
What side do you like the best?
- Patrick will give
Gordon, Melvin SDC RB
Year 2016 Round 1 Draft Pick from Patrick
Year 2016 Round 2 Draft Pick from Patrick - To UT Needs FB for
Randle, Joseph DAL RB
Johnson, Calvin DET WR
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Picks for me, but I can see it as a win win
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Gordon and the picks. But assuming Patrick is a top team it's fair.
Depends how you feel about Randle, I'm not sold on him as an rb1 even if he does start.
jeaton6
Footballguy
Agreed I don't like Coleman much more than Dorsett (if at all) so this trade would be easy for me
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
blardorg
Footballguy
Ertz and Brown. Not sure where Abdullah is going lately, but something like late 1st, early 2nd? That's not a ton of value for Ertz and Brown. Blount adds a little bit of value, but not a ton. Sounds like it helps both teams, but I think Ertz + Brown could've gotten more in return.FFDude23 said:
dipandglide
Footballguy
Its funny, the consensus on here is the Melvin/picks side and on DLF its the Calvin side. Any more thought or opinions? Its year 1 of a start-up and the draft is still ongoing. Here are the rosters:dipandglide said:
UT Needs FB
Player 2014 YTD Pts Bye Trade? Flacco, Joe BAL QB 241.86 9 Newton, Cam CAR QB 229.32 5 Bell, Joique DET RB (P) 192.20 9 Freeman, Devonta ATL RB 83.70 10 Johnson, Duke CLE RB - 11 McKinnon, Jerick MIN RB 94.30 5 Randle, Joseph DAL RB 40.40 6 Richardson, Trent OAK RB 114.80 6 Sankey, Bishop TEN RB 96.40 4 Adams, Davante GBP WR 100.60 7 Austin, Tavon STL WR 86.20 6 Beckham, Odell NYG WR (P) 258.50 11 Colston, Marques NOS WR 164.10 11 Dorsett, Phillip IND WR - 10 Johnson, Calvin DET WR (P) 206.80 9 Watkins, Sammy BUF WR (P) 188.80 8 Reed, Jordan WAS TE (P) 80.50 8
Patrick
Player 2014 YTD Pts Bye Trade? Carr, Derek OAK QB (P) 184.58 6 Trade Manning, Peyton DEN QB 304.26 7 Trade Bernard, Giovani CIN RB 168.50 7 Trade Charles, Jamaal KCC RB 242.20 9 Trade Davis, Knile KCC RB 112.70 9 Trade Forsett, Justin BAL RB 231.30 9 Trade Gordon, Melvin SDC RB - 10 Trade Helu, Roy OAK RB 115.00 6 Trade Baldwin, Doug SEA WR 159.20 9 Trade Cruz, Victor NYG WR (Q) 62.70 11 Trade Edelman, Julian NEP WR 222.60 4 Trade Green, A.J. CIN WR (P) 191.10 7 Trade Matthews, Jordan PHI WR 177.70 8 Trade White, Roddy ATL WR 195.70 10 Trade Donnell, Larry NYG TE (P) 148.70 11 Trade Witten, Jason DAL TE 155.40 6 Trade
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
I'd take the Abdullah side. Unless Ertz and/or Brown become studs, their value is diminished in a 10 team league.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
12 team PPR
Gave:
Cordarelle Patterson
Got:
Antonio Gates
Gave:
Cordarelle Patterson
Got:
Antonio Gates
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I am going to go out on a limb and say rebuild and contender. Win/win on this trade.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Team A: Tyler Eifert & 2016 2nd Rd Rookie Pick
Team B: 2016 1st Rd Rookie Pick
Team B: 2016 1st Rd Rookie Pick
I kind of like Eifert, but I think I'd take a dart at the 1st over him. Any idea where those picks end up?
So is this a trade that hasn't actually happened given Melvin Gordon is still on Patrick? This thread is for completed trades as opposed to possibilities, those would go in the AC forum.
I will ignore that for a minute and say from a strategic viewpoint, I am loathe to invest in older assets during a start-up. At that point rosters are relatively equal in terms of strength (with some exceptions) and it is hard to project yourself as having a significant chance of winning everything. From that perspective, I would lean toward Gordon and the picks.
I saw a team put together the ultimate re-draft team in a start-up last year, after some trades had a core of Peyton/Charles/Forsett/Marshall//E. Sanders/Wright/Wallace//R. White/Graham. Lost in the semis.
skol asylum
Footballguy
You never know but both teams are competitive so probably not top of the round picks.Initially I was offered a 2nd for Eifert but then realized he had already traded his 2nd away. I countered with the above offer. I really have no idea how to value Eifert at this point. I already have Kelce, Maxx Williams, Josh Hill, Cameron, and Vernon Davis at TE so i was thinning out the position to add possible future value at other positions.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Seems like selling low on Eifert IMO. He has a great pedigree and was primed to be a featured target last season before his injury. This is his third year, and second year on the field, and it is well known that TEs tend to break out after their first year. I own Eifert in both of my dynasty leagues, and I wouldn't make this trade in either league.NetnautX said:
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